On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 06:21:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Deregulation spawned a lot of suppliers that are buying in bulk from
the same people that used to supply us, re-sell the same power we used
to buy and skim off millions of dollars that should be savings in our
pockets.

These so called power companies are just a desk, phone, and computer
and a big bank account with our money.

Then how is it that these alternate suppliers can provide power at
10% less than the regular power company here in NJ? Why is it that
competition
that results in everything from fast food to autos at market efficient
prices, is a bad thing when it comes to energy?

Why not ask the regulators why they let the power companies screw you?
As a typical homeowner, you've seen very little of what is really
going on. Try buying power for even a small industrial user and
you'll be begging to have the old system back.

How much power will you be using on a daily bases for the duration of
your three year contract?

Then you have scenarios like:
Yes, we know that week you only used 10,000KW per day, but you said
you wee going to use 15,000KW and since you did not notify us 30 days
ahead, we're going to charge you for it anyway.

Oh, you used 18,000KW instead of the 15k contracted. Sure, we supplied
it but we have to charge you this penalty and higher rate.

Natural gas is just as bad. You can get some really low rates in
summer if you have the right contract. That contract though, may
stipulate that you stop using gas completely if they call you at any
time with four hours notice. You must have an alternate source of
energy (usually oil) or you just shot your plant down.

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:44:03 -0400, George
wrote:

On 3/14/2012 9:56 AM, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

Thats pretty common and standard practice after utilities were deregulated.

Our NG bill is in the same format, so much for the gas and then so much
for the cost of delivering it.

I have to pay for meter rental. $25 a month above the electric usage.
I have several electric meters in my garage which came off houses that
were being demolished. I called the power company and told them that
they can come get their meter, and I will use my own. Of course they
said they can not do that. When I asked why, they said that their meter
is the only kind that will work. I told them that my meter is exactly
the same kind, and I'll bring it to their office and show it to them.
After a big run-around on the phone, I had some guy who claimed to be
the president and he said that they are not allowed to use any meters
except their own, and that I am not allowed to use mine. When I asked
why, he said "sorry, that's the rule we must follow and I can not change
it".

In other words, they can rip me off $25 a month just because they can!
That's $300 a year going in their pockets for a meter that probably only
cost them a one time fee of $100, and every year they take $300 for that
same meter. I'm seriously looking into my own generator along with
solar panels.

Just to add to this, a neighbor has 3 meters on his farm, and is paying
$75 a month for them. One is for his house, another for a rental house,
and the 3rd for his barn. He pays the electric for the rental house as
part of the rent, and all he has in his barn are lights and a few
heaters for his chickens. I told him to at least get rid of the barn
meter and put it on his own house meter. I'll be helping him do that
this summer. I also explained to him that he can put all 3 on the same
meter and still put his own meter (after the one from the power company)
to monitor what the tenants use. He'll be saving $50 a month / $600 a
year.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:46:44 -0400, Joe wrote Re
How much are you really paying for electricity?:

30 years ago, the local electric company had a highly skilled staff of
maintenance people that worked year round trimming trees back from power
lines and maintaining the lines as well. Power outages were maybe once
every 5 years, if that, and short in duration when they did happen.

With deregulation, the power company had to trim back their workforce
to a skeleton crew. There has been so much cost cutting locally that
line maintenance is almost nonexistant. Power outages caused by storms
are frequent and typically last 48 hours or so.

The bottom line is that any money I might have saved on my electric
bill, I've had to spend triple that running a generator.

**** deregulation! Put it back the way it was.

Well said.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Mar 16, 11:12*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article ,
*Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
*"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote:

Yes, Enron was just one of those shining examples of how well market forces
work

Enron was more a shining example of how little government entities
actually understand how market forces work and illustrates what happens
when they try to legislate to their desires instead of how the real
world works.

Knew it would take long to blame the liberals for making Enron out to be thieves

No one ever said market forces or free economies are perfect.
Like everything else, they are not. But they are the best,
most efficient and successful system
anyone on this planet has found. Where liberals go wrong is
they find anything that has a bad outcome, whether in free
markets or society and instantly assume that govt control or
another govt program is the answer. Yet, they never question
the high failure rate and inefficiency of govt, which has produced
results far worse than Enron.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 16, 11:12*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article ,
*Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
*"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote:

Yes, Enron was just one of those shining examples of how well market forces
work

Enron was more a shining example of how little government entities
actually understand how market forces work and illustrates what happens
when they try to legislate to their desires instead of how the real
world works.

Knew it would take long to blame the liberals for making Enron out to be thieves

No one ever said market forces or free economies are perfect.
Like everything else, they are not. But they are the best,
most efficient and successful system
anyone on this planet has found. Where liberals go wrong is
they find anything that has a bad outcome, whether in free
markets or society and instantly assume that govt control or
^more
another govt program is the answer. Yet, they never question
the high failure rate and inefficiency of govt, which has produced
results far worse than Enron.

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash was a
failure of government.

Only a leftist moron would disallow futures trading by power companies, for
example. Forcing them to buy on the spot market is just demanding that some
one else fill that void, at the rate-payers' expense.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "
wrote:

..

Cut offs are for the low cost buyer willing to take a risk and be shut
down. This only happens in cold weather when demand goes very high
during a particularly cold period. It is not a matter of having the
gas, it is the ability to move it to where needed. Shut one smallish
industrial boiler down and 100 houses have more to use.

You say that like it's a bad thing?

No, just pointing that it is a "thing", another option. It is just
not so simple as compared to the small home or business user. With a
mild winter, it is a good thing with no down time.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:06:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "
wrote:

.

Cut offs are for the low cost buyer willing to take a risk and be shut
down. This only happens in cold weather when demand goes very high
during a particularly cold period. It is not a matter of having the
gas, it is the ability to move it to where needed. Shut one smallish
industrial boiler down and 100 houses have more to use.

You say that like it's a bad thing?

No, just pointing that it is a "thing", another option. It is just
not so simple as compared to the small home or business user. With a
mild winter, it is a good thing with no down time.

Sure, but it allows the market to decide priorities. I see that as a *good*
thing. No down-side at all.

In article ,
wrote:

In other words, they can rip me off $25 a month just because they can!
That's $300 a year going in their pockets for a meter that probably only
cost them a one time fee of $100, and every year they take $300 for that
same meter. I'm seriously looking into my own generator along with
solar panels.


Even if you found the regulatory loophole that would allow you to use your own
meter, they would charge you a large "inspection" fee to validate that the meter
is acceptable and then a monthly "insurance" or some other type of fee

Just to add to this, a neighbor has 3 meters on his farm, and is paying
$75 a month for them. One is for his house, another for a rental house,
and the 3rd for his barn. He pays the electric for the rental house as
part of the rent, and all he has in his barn are lights and a few
heaters for his chickens. I told him to at least get rid of the barn
meter and put it on his own house meter. I'll be helping him do that
this summer. I also explained to him that he can put all 3 on the same
meter and still put his own meter (after the one from the power company)
to monitor what the tenants use. He'll be saving $50 a month / $600 a
year.

In article ,
" wrote:

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash was a
failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will always do if
given a chance with little actual downside to doing it...manipulate the market.
Enron did it with electricity and many, many brokers did it with housing...with
the collusion of the banks


Only a leftist moron would disallow futures trading by power companies, for
example. Forcing them to buy on the spot market is just demanding that some
one else fill that void, at the rate-payers' expense.

On Mar 17, 3:10*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article ,

wrote:
In other words, they can rip me off $25 a month just because they can!
That's $300 a year going in their pockets for a meter that probably only
cost them a one time fee of $100, and every year they take $300 for that
same meter. *I'm seriously looking into my own generator along with
solar panels.

Even if you found the regulatory loophole that would allow you to use your own
meter, they would charge you a large "inspection" fee to validate that the meter
is acceptable and then a monthly "insurance" or some other type of fee



Just to add to this, a neighbor has 3 meters on his farm, and is paying
$75 a month for them. *One is for his house, another for a rental house,
and the 3rd for his barn. *He pays the electric for the rental house as
part of the rent, and all he has in his barn are lights and a few
heaters for his chickens. *I told him to at least get rid of the barn
meter and put it on his own house meter. *I'll be helping him do that
this summer. *I also explained to him that he can put all 3 on the same
meter and still put his own meter (after the one from the power company)
to monitor what the tenants use. *He'll be saving $50 a month / $600 a
year.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

$25 a month for a residential meter rental sounds steep. Curious,
which electric company is this?

On 3/16/2012 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:10 pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"atlas-
wrote:
In ,
Ed wrote:





On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:43:14 -0400,
wrote:

We have competition here in PA but it didn't amount to anything since
all of the "competitors" didn't produce electricity and were simply
buying it from our electric utility who has huge excess capacity.

Basically a half dozen resellers popped up and annoyed the crap out of
everyone with constant phone calls with pitches of very minor short term
savings. Just yesterday we got a form letter from the local electric
utility. It is still disingenuous because it is opt out but the letter
stated "we are now required to give you written opportunity to ask us
not to release your contact information to other suppliers"

Deregulation spawned a lot of suppliers that are buying in bulk from
the same people that used to supply us, re-sell the same power we used
to buy and skim off millions of dollars that should be savings in our
pockets.

These so called power companies are just a desk, phone, and computer
and a big bank account with our money.

Aw, those republicans are always out to let market forces reduce our cost of
living, aren't they?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, because it's proven to work, as anyone who has taken even a basic
course in economics knows. Even the libs who have studied economics
know it. But they pretend, because they have ulterior motives.

Only if your point of reference is "dittohead skool".

Since man has been on the earth there are those without a moral compass
who will do whatever is necessary to enrich themselves.

Suppose we went with a real free market? How do you think it would work
out if there were no weights and measures laws and inspections? How
about dropping licensing requirements for doctors? How about dropping
drug laws relating to purity, sterility and strength? How about dropping
food and meat inspection requirements? How about dropping safety and
licensing rules regarding planes and pilots?

On 3/16/2012 11:46 AM, Joe wrote:


Deregulation spawned a lot of suppliers that are buying in bulk from
the same people that used to supply us, re-sell the same power we used
to buy and skim off millions of dollars that should be savings in our
pockets.

These so called power companies are just a desk, phone, and computer
and a big bank account with our money.

Aw, those republicans are always out to let market forces reduce our
cost of
living, aren't they?- Hide quoted text -


30 years ago, the local electric company had a highly skilled staff of
maintenance people that worked year round trimming trees back from power
lines and maintaining the lines as well. Power outages were maybe once
every 5 years, if that, and short in duration when they did happen.

With deregulation, the power company had to trim back their workforce to
a skeleton crew. There has been so much cost cutting locally that line
maintenance is almost nonexistant. Power outages caused by storms are
frequent and typically last 48 hours or so.


Thats pretty much how it works here. Last year the disconnect on the
primary side of the transformer serving our house totally self
destructed. I called in with the pole number and a description of what
happened. Two hours later a truck showed up. I asked the guy why and he
said "they closed the Smithville maintenance building and the same staff
serves four times as much area".





The bottom line is that any money I might have saved on my electric
bill, I've had to spend triple that running a generator.

**** deregulation! Put it back the way it was.

On 3/16/2012 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Mar 16, 11:46 am, wrote:
Deregulation spawned a lot of suppliers that are buying in bulk from
the same people that used to supply us, re-sell the same power we used
to buy and skim off millions of dollars that should be savings in our
pockets.

These so called power companies are just a desk, phone, and computer
and a big bank account with our money.

Aw, those republicans are always out to let market forces reduce our cost of
living, aren't they?- Hide quoted text -

30 years ago, the local electric company had a highly skilled staff of
maintenance people that worked year round trimming trees back from power
lines and maintaining the lines as well. Power outages were maybe once
every 5 years, if that, and short in duration when they did happen.

With deregulation, the power company had to trim back their workforce
to a skeleton crew. There has been so much cost cutting locally that
line maintenance is almost nonexistant. Power outages caused by storms
are frequent and typically last 48 hours or so.

The bottom line is that any money I might have saved on my electric
bill, I've had to spend triple that running a generator.

**** deregulation! Put it back the way it was.

It would be rare indeed for the delivery portion of
an electric utility to be deregulated. I'll bet that the
company you're complaining about is still a regulated
utility.

Rare how? The very large utility serving our area even morphed their
name and logo to indicate they aren't the
"old electric company" .

On 3/16/2012 11:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


Tell that to the crew that is replacing a half dozen or so poles in my
neighborhood.

I've got 2 ploes in front of my house right now...new and old. Next
week they'll be transferring the wires.

I hop you don't have the same crew that did the pole in front of my
house. They came out and measure, marked and had all sort of painted
line and arrows. Then they proceeded to drill right into my sewer
line. Planted the pole and left. It was only a portion of the line
so I had some flow and it took weeks for the backup to happen.

Did they repair it? No, I had to have it done and put in a claim for
the $3500 job.


The new thing now to be very aware of is that some of the "new,
reinvented" companies collect information (probably from accident
reports) and send a bill claiming you damaged their equipment. I know
two very sensible people who got such bills. One slid into a curb in an
ice storm and another was pushed into a guard rail.



The only downside is that they cut a huge "U" into a very old pine
tree at the end of the street to open it up for the wires. Someone,
many years ago, had strapped 2 x 4's to the wires where they ran
through the tree so that the wood rested on the branches, not the
wires. Those supports will no longer be needed since the tree crew
removed all of the branches on the inside the tree so that wires hang
free.

Can you say butt-ugly?


Sure, but the tree probably should have just been taken down. One of
the problems we have in CT is the tree huggers don't want radical
trimming. They'd rather complain that the power is out and no one came
to fix it yet.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:16:02 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash was a
failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will always do if
given a chance with little actual downside to doing it...manipulate the market.
Enron did it with electricity and many, many brokers did it with housing...with
the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Only a leftist moron would disallow futures trading by power companies, for
example. Forcing them to buy on the spot market is just demanding that some
one else fill that void, at the rate-payers' expense.

On Mar 17, 4:06*pm, George wrote:
On 3/16/2012 1:34 PM, wrote:





On Mar 16, 11:46 am, *wrote:
Deregulation spawned a lot of suppliers that are buying in bulk from
the same people that used to supply us, re-sell the same power we used
to buy and skim off millions of dollars that should be savings in our
pockets.

These so called power companies are just a desk, phone, and computer
and a big bank account with our money.

Aw, those republicans are always out to let market forces reduce our cost of
living, aren't they?- Hide quoted text -

30 years ago, the local electric company had a highly skilled staff of
maintenance people that worked year round trimming trees back from power
lines and maintaining the lines as well. Power outages were maybe once
every 5 years, if that, and short in duration when they did happen.

With deregulation, the power company had to trim back their workforce
to a skeleton crew. There has been so much cost cutting locally that
line maintenance is almost nonexistant. Power outages caused by storms
are frequent and typically last 48 hours or so.

The bottom line is that any money I might have saved on my electric
bill, I've had to spend triple that running a generator.

**** deregulation! Put it back the way it was.

It would be rare indeed for the delivery portion of
an electric utility to be deregulated. *I'll bet that the
company you're complaining about is still a regulated
utility.

Rare how? The very large utility serving our area even morphed their
name and logo to indicate they aren't the
"old electric company" .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They can change their name and logo, but I'll bet
they are still a regulated utility. Want to provide the
name so we can check?

On Mar 17, 4:10*pm, George wrote:
On 3/16/2012 11:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:





On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
*wrote:

Tell that to the crew that is replacing a half dozen or so poles in my
neighborhood.

I've got 2 ploes in front of my house right now...new and old. Next
week they'll be transferring the wires.

I hop you don't have the same crew that did the pole in front of my
house. *They came out and measure, marked and had all sort of painted
line and arrows. *Then they proceeded to drill right into my sewer
line. *Planted the pole and left. *It was only a portion of the line
so I had some flow and it took weeks for the backup to happen.

Did they repair it? *No, I had to have it done and put in a claim for
the $3500 job.

The new thing now to be very aware of is that some of the "new,
reinvented" companies collect information (probably from accident
reports) and send a bill claiming you damaged their equipment. I know
two very sensible people who got such bills. One slid into a curb in an
ice storm and another was pushed into a guard rail.



Nothing new about that. The electric utility here has
been charging as long back as I can remember for
damage to their equipment. You take out a pole with
your car, you pay. You drive into my house or car and you also pay.
How should it work in your universe?

On Mar 17, 5:56*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:21:22 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:

$25 a month for a residential meter rental sounds steep. *Curious,
which electric company is this?

I think it pure robbery. *After all, the meter is there for THEIR
benefit. *Electricity could enter my buildings without a meter. *Sure I
understand they need a method to determine usage, but I dont believe
there should be any fee for the meter. *They make their money off of the
sale of the electric. *This is the same as if everytime I went to
Walmart I had to pay to enter the store, and then pay for the
merchandize too.

This is one of those rural ripoff coops!
Coops used to mean that everyone played a part in the ownership, but
these days it's only a select few that make all the decisions. *Yet they
were more than happy to build a brand new HUGE building for the company,
and added every luxury available, while their old building was perfectly
fine, and now, 6 or 7 years later that old bldg still sits empty, and
will probably be demolished in a few more years rather than selling it
or leasing it, to help pay off the new bldg. *Worse yet, they light up
the whole outside of the fancy new bldg at night with flood lights to
show it off, and mostly only local residents even see it. *Yet they keep
sending notices that we should conserve energy. *How about they heed
their own advice. *One night I counted tthe lights. *18 in the parking
lot, and 24 on the building, not to mention all the lights left on
inside the bldg. *(And no one is there at night). *Aside from a few
security lights, none of these do any good for anyone, and all except
the security lights should be shut off as soon as they leave the
building.

Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:21:22 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


$25 a month for a residential meter rental sounds steep. Curious,
which electric company is this?

I think it pure robbery. After all, the meter is there for THEIR
benefit. Electricity could enter my buildings without a meter. Sure I
understand they need a method to determine usage, but I dont believe
there should be any fee for the meter. They make their money off of the
sale of the electric. This is the same as if everytime I went to
Walmart I had to pay to enter the store, and then pay for the
merchandize too.

This is one of those rural ripoff coops!
Coops used to mean that everyone played a part in the ownership, but
these days it's only a select few that make all the decisions. Yet they
were more than happy to build a brand new HUGE building for the company,
and added every luxury available, while their old building was perfectly
fine, and now, 6 or 7 years later that old bldg still sits empty, and
will probably be demolished in a few more years rather than selling it
or leasing it, to help pay off the new bldg. Worse yet, they light up
the whole outside of the fancy new bldg at night with flood lights to
show it off, and mostly only local residents even see it. Yet they keep
sending notices that we should conserve energy. How about they heed
their own advice. One night I counted tthe lights. 18 in the parking
lot, and 24 on the building, not to mention all the lights left on
inside the bldg. (And no one is there at night). Aside from a few
security lights, none of these do any good for anyone, and all except
the security lights should be shut off as soon as they leave the
building.

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:16:02 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash was
a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will always do
if given a chance with little actual downside to doing it...manipulate the
market. Enron did it with electricity and many, many brokers did it with
housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective services to
rescue you



Only a leftist moron would disallow futures trading by power companies,
for example. Forcing them to buy on the spot market is just demanding
that some one else fill that void, at the rate-payers' expense.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:03:24 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:16:02 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash was
a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will always do
if given a chance with little actual downside to doing it...manipulate the
market. Enron did it with electricity and many, many brokers did it with
housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective services to
rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside tonight. No
drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the bed, again, though.

On Mar 16, 11:07*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

wrote:

Tell that to the crew that is replacing a half dozen or so poles in my
neighborhood.

I've got 2 ploes in front of my house right now...new and old. Next
week they'll be transferring the wires.

I hop you don't have the same crew that did the pole in front of my
house. *They came out and measure, marked and had all sort of painted
line and arrows. *Then they proceeded to drill right into my sewer
line. *Planted the pole and left. *It was only a portion of the line
so I had some flow and it took weeks for the backup to happen.

....

Actually, I should write a thank you note to the crew that dropped the
new pole next to my driveway.

As I said in my other post, I park right next to a pole. Years ago I
put patio blocks around the pole so that when I get out of my car I'm
not stepping onto grass (or mud when it rains).

When I heard that they were going to replace the pole, I worried that
they would destroy my little "patio" since it's on town property.
Instead, they placed the new pole far enough away (about 6 feet) so
that they didn't disturb the patio. The other new poles on the street
are much closer to the old ones.

Of course, they haven't taken the old one out, but as long as they
just pull it straight up and out, all I'll have to do is place one
patio block over the spot where the old pole was and I'll be in better
shape than I was before.

....


Did they repair it? *No, I had to have it done and put in a claim for
the $3500 job.

The only downside is that they cut a huge "U" into a very old pine
tree at the end of the street to open it up for the wires. Someone,
many years ago, had strapped 2 x 4's to the wires where they ran
through the tree so that the wood rested on the branches, not the
wires. Those supports will no longer be needed since the tree crew
removed all of the branches on the inside the tree so that wires hang
free.

Can you say butt-ugly?

Sure, but the tree probably should have just been taken down. *One of
the problems we have in CT is the tree huggers don't want radical
trimming. They'd rather complain that the power is out and no one came
to fix it yet.

I can't say for sure whose tree it is, the homeowner's or the town's.
It always questionable on my street because there are no sidewalks,
the street is curved, the houses aren't always build square to the
property lines, etc.

I know that the town's tree foreman stopped over while the tree
cutting crew was there because I called the town the morning the tree
crew showed up. I had chatted with the tree crew about what they
planned to do and they asked me if I knew who owned this tree here and
that tree there and what was town property, etc. When they hinted at
taken down some of the trees completely, I got a little concerned.
It's a very pretty tree lined street and dropping some of the old
growth trees would have changed the look and feel considerably. On my
way to work that morning I called the town and they apparently sent
the tree foreman over to make sure they didn't go overboard. It may
have been him that told them to cut the U into the pine, but I can't
say.
....

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:03:24 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:16:02 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash
was
a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will always
do
if given a chance with little actual downside to doing it...manipulate
the
market. Enron did it with electricity and many, many brokers did it with
housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective services to
rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside tonight. No
drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the bed, again, though.

have you learned that skill yet?

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:35:07 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "
wrote:


Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

I like that idea. Thanks.

On 3/17/2012 5:26 PM, wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:10 pm, wrote:
On 3/16/2012 11:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:





On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Tell that to the crew that is replacing a half dozen or so poles in my
neighborhood.

I've got 2 ploes in front of my house right now...new and old. Next
week they'll be transferring the wires.

I hop you don't have the same crew that did the pole in front of my
house. They came out and measure, marked and had all sort of painted
line and arrows. Then they proceeded to drill right into my sewer
line. Planted the pole and left. It was only a portion of the line
so I had some flow and it took weeks for the backup to happen.

Did they repair it? No, I had to have it done and put in a claim for
the $3500 job.

The new thing now to be very aware of is that some of the "new,
reinvented" companies collect information (probably from accident
reports) and send a bill claiming you damaged their equipment. I know
two very sensible people who got such bills. One slid into a curb in an
ice storm and another was pushed into a guard rail.



Nothing new about that. The electric utility here has
been charging as long back as I can remember for
damage to their equipment. You take out a pole with
your car, you pay. You drive into my house or car and you also pay.
How should it work in your universe?




Clearly you should pay if you damage something. If you get pushed into a
guard rail on I-80 and there are no utilities damaged you shouldn't pay
a "creative bill".

wrote:

I think it pure robbery. After all, the meter is there for THEIR
benefit. Electricity could enter my buildings without a meter. Sure
I understand they need a method to determine usage, but I dont believe
there should be any fee for the meter. They make their money off of
the sale of the electric. This is the same as if everytime I went to
Walmart I had to pay to enter the store, and then pay for the
merchandize too.

Think Sam's Club or Costco.

On 3/17/2012 5:22 PM, wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:06 pm, wrote:
On 3/16/2012 1:34 PM, wrote:





On Mar 16, 11:46 am, wrote:
Deregulation spawned a lot of suppliers that are buying in bulk from
the same people that used to supply us, re-sell the same power we used
to buy and skim off millions of dollars that should be savings in our
pockets.

These so called power companies are just a desk, phone, and computer
and a big bank account with our money.

Aw, those republicans are always out to let market forces reduce our cost of
living, aren't they?- Hide quoted text -

30 years ago, the local electric company had a highly skilled staff of
maintenance people that worked year round trimming trees back from power
lines and maintaining the lines as well. Power outages were maybe once
every 5 years, if that, and short in duration when they did happen.

With deregulation, the power company had to trim back their workforce
to a skeleton crew. There has been so much cost cutting locally that
line maintenance is almost nonexistant. Power outages caused by storms
are frequent and typically last 48 hours or so.

The bottom line is that any money I might have saved on my electric
bill, I've had to spend triple that running a generator.

**** deregulation! Put it back the way it was.

It would be rare indeed for the delivery portion of
an electric utility to be deregulated. I'll bet that the
company you're complaining about is still a regulated
utility.

Rare how? The very large utility serving our area even morphed their
name and logo to indicate they aren't the
"old electric company" .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They can change their name and logo, but I'll bet
they are still a regulated utility. Want to provide the
name so we can check?

"we"? home guy speaks for all of Canada. Who do you represent?

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 21:55:52 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:03:24 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:16:02 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market crash
was
a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will always
do
if given a chance with little actual downside to doing it...manipulate
the
market. Enron did it with electricity and many, many brokers did it with
housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective services to
rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside tonight. No
drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the bed, again, though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to the
park with you!

On Mar 18, 1:27*am, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:35:07 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "

wrote:

Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. *Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). *Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

I like that idea. *Thanks.

I'm still waiting for the name of the actual electric company that
charges
$25 a month for a meter rental. Until then, call me skeptical.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:27*am, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:35:07 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "

wrote:

Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. *Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). *Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

I like that idea. *Thanks.

I'm still waiting for the name of the actual electric company that
charges
$25 a month for a meter rental. Until then, call me skeptical.

It's probably how they charge for billing.

In article ,
" wrote:


Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market
crash was a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will
always do if given a chance with little actual downside to doing
it...manipulate the market. Enron did it with electricity and many,
many brokers did it with housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective services
to rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside tonight.
No drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the bed, again,
though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to the
park with you!

So you know how to sleep inside but not actually how to read? Did your private
school education fail you so easily?

On 3/18/2012 12:55 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:27 am, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:35:07 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "

wrote:

Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

I like that idea. Thanks.

I'm still waiting for the name of the actual electric company that
charges
$25 a month for a meter rental. Until then, call me skeptical.

It's probably how they charge for billing.

Our's is $32 a month whether I use any electricity or not.
I guess you could call it meter and drop wire rental. ;-)

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 17:53:45 -0400, Carnivore wrote:

On 3/18/2012 12:55 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:27 am, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:35:07 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "

wrote:

Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

I like that idea. Thanks.

I'm still waiting for the name of the actual electric company that
charges
$25 a month for a meter rental. Until then, call me skeptical.

It's probably how they charge for billing.

Our's is $32 a month whether I use any electricity or not.
I guess you could call it meter and drop wire rental. ;-)

I'm quite sure that's what the real deal is. Gotta make the customers think
they're paying for something other than junk mail. ;-)

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:45:11 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market
crash was a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will
always do if given a chance with little actual downside to doing
it...manipulate the market. Enron did it with electricity and many,
many brokers did it with housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective services
to rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside tonight.
No drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the bed, again,
though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to the
park with you!

So you know how to sleep inside but not actually how to read? Did your private
school education fail you so easily?

I read pretty well, but you have shown the classic lefty brain (out sleeping
in the park when they were handed out).

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:45:11 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market
crash was a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will
always do if given a chance with little actual downside to doing
it...manipulate the market. Enron did it with electricity and many,
many brokers did it with housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective
services to rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside
tonight. No drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the
bed, again, though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to
the park with you!

So you know how to sleep inside but not actually how to read? Did your
private school education fail you so easily?

I read pretty well, but you have shown the classic lefty brain (out sleeping
in the park when they were handed out).

I've really come to like you. You try so hard but insist on moving backwards.
You are in fact a typical tighty

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 19:21:14 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:45:11 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Enron *was* a failure of government, just as the housing market
crash was a failure of government.

Not so. Enron was a perfect example of what the free market will
always do if given a chance with little actual downside to doing
it...manipulate the market. Enron did it with electricity and many,
many brokers did it with housing...with the collusion of the banks

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective
services to rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside
tonight. No drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the
bed, again, though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to
the park with you!

So you know how to sleep inside but not actually how to read? Did your
private school education fail you so easily?

I read pretty well, but you have shown the classic lefty brain (out sleeping
in the park when they were handed out).

I've really come to like you.

Like all lefties, you're a damned liar.

You try so hard but insist on moving backwards.
You are in fact a typical tighty

What an illiterate moron.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:44:03 -0400, George
wrote:

On 3/14/2012 9:56 AM, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

Thats pretty common and standard practice after utilities were
deregulated.

Our NG bill is in the same format, so much for the gas and then so much
for the cost of delivering it.

I have to pay for meter rental. $25 a month above the electric usage.
I have several electric meters in my garage which came off houses that
were being demolished. I called the power company and told them that
they can come get their meter, and I will use my own. Of course they
said they can not do that. When I asked why, they said that their meter
is the only kind that will work. I told them that my meter is exactly
the same kind, and I'll bring it to their office and show it to them.
After a big run-around on the phone, I had some guy who claimed to be
the president and he said that they are not allowed to use any meters
except their own, and that I am not allowed to use mine. When I asked
why, he said "sorry, that's the rule we must follow and I can not change
it".

In other words, they can rip me off $25 a month just because they can!
That's $300 a year going in their pockets for a meter that probably only
cost them a one time fee of $100, and every year they take $300 for that
same meter. I'm seriously looking into my own generator along with
solar panels.

Just to add to this, a neighbor has 3 meters on his farm, and is paying
$75 a month for them. One is for his house, another for a rental house,
and the 3rd for his barn. He pays the electric for the rental house as
part of the rent, and all he has in his barn are lights and a few
heaters for his chickens. I told him to at least get rid of the barn
meter and put it on his own house meter. I'll be helping him do that
this summer. I also explained to him that he can put all 3 on the same
meter and still put his own meter (after the one from the power company)
to monitor what the tenants use. He'll be saving $50 a month / $600 a
year.


Did you ask what "rule" it was ?
Did you ask WHO made that "rule" ???

Frankly, I doubt that there is such a "rule" and if there is, most likely it
can be challenged.
Do some more research.

"Carnivore" wrote in message
...
On 3/18/2012 12:55 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:27 am, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:35:07 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "

wrote:

Write those thoughts to your local newspaper editor and see if you get
results. Logical, plain, simple statements of facts get you space on
the Editorial page in my area.(suburban Chicago). Utilities are
sensitive to public opinion, in my experioence, and if they are made
to look bad in print, they are more likely to respond.

I like that idea. Thanks.

I'm still waiting for the name of the actual electric company that
charges
$25 a month for a meter rental. Until then, call me skeptical.

It's probably how they charge for billing.

Our's is $32 a month whether I use any electricity or not.
I guess you could call it meter and drop wire rental. ;-)

Our cabin is $38 a month, whether you actually use power or not
Usage is extra

Makes me wonder about putting in a generator behind the garage, in a
soundproof box and running it off Propane when we are there.

Typical use in daytime is fridge, freezer, water pump, water heater, some
lights

The problem is that the break-even would be a few years out
It may also reduce the resale value of the cabin.

In article ,
" wrote:

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective
services to rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside
tonight. No drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the
bed, again, though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to
the park with you!

So you know how to sleep inside but not actually how to read? Did your
private school education fail you so easily?

I read pretty well, but you have shown the classic lefty brain (out
sleeping
in the park when they were handed out).

I've really come to like you.

Like all lefties, you're a damned liar.

like all tighties, everyone else is always a liar. I just love the thought of
how you make it thru a day trying to work out how to ignore all the lies your
"friends" tell you. LOL


You try so hard but insist on moving backwards.
You are in fact a typical tighty

What an illiterate moron.

Indeed you are, but we already knew that

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:42:06 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Who left the village idiot outside overnight again?!

Your mother. Shame on her, we will have to call child protective
services to rescue you

Aren't you lefties so sweet? Maybe they'll let you sleep inside
tonight. No drinks after 8:000 and you gotta promise not to wet the
bed, again, though.

have you learned that skill yet?

Sleeping inside? Sure, too bad about you bed-wetting lefties. Back to
the park with you!

So you know how to sleep inside but not actually how to read? Did your
private school education fail you so easily?

I read pretty well, but you have shown the classic lefty brain (out
sleeping
in the park when they were handed out).

I've really come to like you.

Like all lefties, you're a damned liar.

like all tighties, everyone else is always a liar.

Everyone? No, just leftists assholes, like you.

I just love the thought of
how you make it thru a day trying to work out how to ignore all the lies your
"friends" tell you. LOL

Ah, you think. Isn't that just so creepy. It probably gives you a stiffie.


You try so hard but insist on moving backwards.
You are in fact a typical tighty

What an illiterate moron.

Indeed you are, but we already knew that

IKWYABWAI. Your only argument. It's a loser, but it is a loser's only.