On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:20:54 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/2012 9:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
The following were taken from a 5th grade textbook published in 1909:

* How many pounds of sugar, at $0.06 a pound, can be exchanged for 9
pounds
of butter at $0.32 a pound, and 12 dozen eggs at $0.18 a dozen?

* A lady sold some butter at $0.32 a pound and with the sum received
bought
16 yards of cloth at $0.90 a yard, 4 hats at $3.00 each, 4 ties at
$0.24
each, and 4 pairs of gloves at $0.55 each. How many pounds of butter
did
she
sell?

* $65 is the value of 5/6ths of an acre of land. At this rate, how many
acres of land can be bought for $6396?

* How many pecks are there in 17.5 bushels?

* A market gardener bought 20 yards of carpet at $1.25 a yard and paid
for
it in potatoes at $0.05 a quart. How many bushels were required.

Contrast the above with today's typical 5th grade test:

* How much is 2 plus 2 (Hint: the answer is not a color)?

Show me a typical 5th grade test that has your alleged "(2 +2) not a
color"
question on it. What's the point of posting this obvious nonsense?

Very few people have a need to know what a 'peck' is these days but they
do
need to know what a 'peckerhead' is. Hint: the answer is a person who
does
certain, inexplicable things.

Weren't you the one just talking about dating teachers? Surely you must
know that the 2 + 2 question is bull****. Fifth graders know how to
operate
computers nowadays. I have no worries that they're as stupid as you
seem to
be implying with your post.

If you'd like to try dealing with the truth instead of myths you tell us
you
feel compelled to bust, here's what *real* fifth graders study in math:

http://www.softschools.com/grades/5thgrade.jsp

Addition and Multiplication Properties
Multiplication Word Problems
Estimation Multiplication
Properties of Multiplication
Multiplication and Division Word Problems
Multiply& Divide Integers
Divisibility Rules
Decimals, Fractions, Percents Quiz
Multiply Fractions
Compare and Order Decimals
Find Place Value of a Number
Find Square root
Roman Numerals
5th grade word problems
Inequalities with Decimals
Expressions and Variables
Solve for unknown one variable equations
Measurements
Prime Numbers Up To 100
Prime and Composite Numbers
Classifying Numbers
Factor Tree
Greatest Common Factor
Finding the LCM
Ratios, Proportions, and Percents Activities for 5th Grade
Find perimeter for polygons- quiz
5th Grade Test: Geometry and spatial reasoning
Geometry Transformations Quiz
Polygons Quiz
Multiplication worksheets
Division worksheets
Place value worksheets
Finding Average worksheets
Rounding worksheets
Roman Numeral worksheets
Solve for unknown one variable equations - Algebra notation
Order of Operatons Worksheets
Decimal Worksheets for Fifth Grade
Decimal Worksheets addition and subtraction
Decimal Multiplication Worksheets
Decimals Place Value Worksheets
Decimals Addition Worksheets
Fractions Worksheets for Fifth Grade
All Fractions Worksheets(Improper, Mixed Number and adding fractions)
Fraction Addition Worksheets
Fraction Subtraction Worksheets
Fraction Multiplication Worksheets
Fraction Division Worksheets
Mixed number to improper fraction worksheets
Improper Fractions and Mixed number worksheets
Comparing fractions worksheets
Ordering fractions worksheets (Select Level 2)
Simplify Fractions Worksheets
Equivalent Fractions Worksheets (Advanced)
Mixed Number Fractions Worksheets
Exponents Worksheets for Fifth Grade
Exponents less than greater than worksheets
Expanded Form to Standard Form Worksheets
Standard Form to Expanded Form Exponents Worksheets
Scientific Notation Worksheet
Factors Worksheets for 5th Grade
Greatest Common Factor worksheets
Find All Factors worksheets
Factor Tree Worksheets
Ratios, Proportions, and Percents Worksheets for 5th Grade
Graph paper generator
Geometry Worksheets

--
Bobby G.



funny, most HS grads these days can't count back change.

Most? You must travel in different circles than I do. I can't see how
businesses survive if "most" of their counter employees are giving the wrong
change back. Implying that Americans are that fu&ing stupid is something
I'd expect from Harry or HomeGuy. It's sad to see HeyBub (and you?) join
the ranks of the America bashers here.

Most. If the register doesn't tell them how much to hand back, they're
helpless. Yes, they *will* give the wrong change. My wife is constantly
having problems training "kids" who can't count money. ...and she works in a
bank.

And most of them will need to whilst working at mcdonalds. I think the
point he was
trying to make is that they don't teach any PRACTICAL math anymore.
Just feel good **** and stuff that doesn't matter.

If that's what you want to believe, then more power to you. But looking at
what they're actually being taught and tested on tells a different, slightly
less pessimistic, much more truthful story. While smart cash registers have
reduced the need for employees to mentally calculate the change, I don't
think it's fair to slander the entire 5th grade population of the country by
insinuating that they're all doing "2 + 2" math or that they don't know
numbers from colors. It's just more pointless America bashing AFAICT and
this time from an American, not some damn furriner. That's sad to see.
Especially in a newsgroup that has nothing at all to do with 5th grade math
education.

The fact is that schools are dumbed down. Test scores show it clearly.

On Feb 21, 7:19*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:20:54 -0500, "Robert Green"









wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/2012 9:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:
*wrote in message
...
The following were taken from a 5th grade textbook published in 1909:

* How many pounds of sugar, at $0.06 a pound, can be exchanged for 9
pounds
of butter at $0.32 a pound, and 12 dozen eggs at $0.18 a dozen?

* A lady sold some butter at $0.32 a pound and with the sum received
bought
16 yards of cloth at $0.90 a yard, 4 hats at $3.00 each, 4 ties at
$0.24
each, and 4 pairs of gloves at $0.55 each. How many pounds of butter
did
she
sell?

* $65 is the value of 5/6ths of an acre of land. At this rate, how many
acres of land can be bought for $6396?

* How many pecks are there in 17.5 bushels?

* A market gardener bought 20 yards of carpet at $1.25 a yard and paid
for
it in potatoes at $0.05 a quart. How many bushels were required.

Contrast the above with today's typical 5th grade test:

* How much is 2 plus 2 (Hint: the answer is not a color)?

Show me a typical 5th grade test that has your alleged "(2 +2) not a
color"
question on it. *What's the point of posting this obvious nonsense?

Very few people have a need to know what a 'peck' is these days but they
do
need to know what a 'peckerhead' is. *Hint: the answer is a person who
does
certain, inexplicable things.

Weren't you the one just talking about dating teachers? *Surely you must
know that the 2 + 2 question is bull****. *Fifth graders know how to
operate
computers nowadays. *I have no worries that they're as stupid as you
seem to
be implying with your post.

If you'd like to try dealing with the truth instead of myths you tell us
you
feel compelled to bust, here's what *real* fifth graders study in math:

http://www.softschools.com/grades/5thgrade.jsp

* Addition and Multiplication Properties
* Multiplication Word Problems
* Estimation Multiplication
* Properties of Multiplication
* Multiplication and Division Word Problems
* Multiply& *Divide Integers
* Divisibility Rules
* Decimals, Fractions, Percents Quiz
* Multiply Fractions
* Compare and Order Decimals
* Find Place Value of a Number
* Find Square root
* Roman Numerals
* 5th grade word problems
* Inequalities with Decimals
* Expressions and Variables
* Solve for unknown one variable equations
* Measurements
* Prime Numbers Up To 100
* Prime and Composite Numbers
Classifying Numbers
* Factor Tree
* Greatest Common Factor
* Finding the LCM
* Ratios, Proportions, and Percents Activities for 5th Grade
* Find perimeter for polygons- quiz
* 5th Grade Test: Geometry and spatial reasoning
* Geometry Transformations Quiz
* Polygons Quiz
* Multiplication worksheets
* Division worksheets
* Place value worksheets
* Finding Average worksheets
* Rounding worksheets
* Roman Numeral worksheets
* Solve for unknown one variable equations - Algebra notation
* Order of Operatons Worksheets
* Decimal Worksheets for Fifth Grade
* Decimal Worksheets addition and subtraction
* Decimal Multiplication Worksheets
* Decimals Place Value Worksheets
* Decimals Addition Worksheets
* Fractions Worksheets for Fifth Grade
* All Fractions Worksheets(Improper, Mixed Number and adding fractions)
* Fraction Addition Worksheets
* Fraction Subtraction Worksheets
* Fraction Multiplication Worksheets
* Fraction Division Worksheets
* Mixed number to improper fraction worksheets
* Improper Fractions and Mixed number worksheets
* Comparing fractions worksheets
* Ordering fractions worksheets (Select Level 2)
* Simplify Fractions Worksheets
* Equivalent Fractions Worksheets (Advanced)
* Mixed Number Fractions Worksheets
* Exponents Worksheets for Fifth Grade
* Exponents less than greater than worksheets
* Expanded Form to Standard Form Worksheets
* Standard Form to Expanded Form Exponents Worksheets
* Scientific Notation Worksheet
* Factors Worksheets for 5th Grade
* Greatest Common Factor worksheets
* Find All Factors worksheets
* Factor Tree Worksheets
* Ratios, Proportions, and Percents Worksheets for 5th Grade
* Graph paper generator
* Geometry Worksheets

--
Bobby G.

funny, most HS grads these days can't count back change.

Most? *You must travel in different circles than I do. *I can't see how
businesses survive if "most" of their counter employees are giving the wrong
change back. *Implying that Americans are that fu&ing stupid is something
I'd expect from Harry or HomeGuy. *It's sad to see HeyBub (and you?) join
the ranks of the America bashers here.

Most. *If the register doesn't tell them how much to hand back, they're
helpless. *Yes, they *will* give the wrong change. *My wife is constantly
having problems training "kids" who can't count money. *...and she works in a
bank.

And most of *them will need to whilst working at mcdonalds. *I think the
point he was
trying to make is that they don't teach any PRACTICAL math anymore.
Just feel good **** and stuff that doesn't matter.

If that's what you want to believe, then more power to you. *But looking at
what they're actually being taught and tested on tells a different, slightly
less pessimistic, much more truthful story. *While smart cash registers have
reduced the need for employees to mentally calculate the change, I don't
think it's fair to slander the entire 5th grade population of the country by
insinuating that they're all doing "2 + 2" math or that they don't know
numbers from colors. *It's just more pointless America bashing AFAICT and
this time from an American, not some damn furriner. *That's sad to see..
Especially in a newsgroup that has nothing at all to do with 5th grade math
education.

The fact is that schools are dumbed down. *Test scores show it clearly.

I have a son in his 30s and a teenage daughter and I dont see where
anything has been dumbed down. Being witness to what has been taught
over 3 generations shows me that schools have been steadily advancing.
What I have seen is a serious lack of parent involvement in their kids
education. Basically what Im seeing is moms and dads going off to work
in the mornings kids going to school, everybody comes home in the
evening and flops in front of the computer or TV set. There are kids
who get it and kids who don't and the difference is PARENTING.

Jimmie

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 06:27:20 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Feb 21, 7:19*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:20:54 -0500, "Robert Green"









wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/2012 9:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:
*wrote in message
...
The following were taken from a 5th grade textbook published in 1909:

* How many pounds of sugar, at $0.06 a pound, can be exchanged for 9
pounds
of butter at $0.32 a pound, and 12 dozen eggs at $0.18 a dozen?

* A lady sold some butter at $0.32 a pound and with the sum received
bought
16 yards of cloth at $0.90 a yard, 4 hats at $3.00 each, 4 ties at
$0.24
each, and 4 pairs of gloves at $0.55 each. How many pounds of butter
did
she
sell?

* $65 is the value of 5/6ths of an acre of land. At this rate, how many
acres of land can be bought for $6396?

* How many pecks are there in 17.5 bushels?

* A market gardener bought 20 yards of carpet at $1.25 a yard and paid
for
it in potatoes at $0.05 a quart. How many bushels were required.

Contrast the above with today's typical 5th grade test:

* How much is 2 plus 2 (Hint: the answer is not a color)?

Show me a typical 5th grade test that has your alleged "(2 +2) not a
color"
question on it. *What's the point of posting this obvious nonsense?

Very few people have a need to know what a 'peck' is these days but they
do
need to know what a 'peckerhead' is. *Hint: the answer is a person who
does
certain, inexplicable things.

Weren't you the one just talking about dating teachers? *Surely you must
know that the 2 + 2 question is bull****. *Fifth graders know how to
operate
computers nowadays. *I have no worries that they're as stupid as you
seem to
be implying with your post.

If you'd like to try dealing with the truth instead of myths you tell us
you
feel compelled to bust, here's what *real* fifth graders study in math:

http://www.softschools.com/grades/5thgrade.jsp

* Addition and Multiplication Properties
* Multiplication Word Problems
* Estimation Multiplication
* Properties of Multiplication
* Multiplication and Division Word Problems
* Multiply& *Divide Integers
* Divisibility Rules
* Decimals, Fractions, Percents Quiz
* Multiply Fractions
* Compare and Order Decimals
* Find Place Value of a Number
* Find Square root
* Roman Numerals
* 5th grade word problems
* Inequalities with Decimals
* Expressions and Variables
* Solve for unknown one variable equations
* Measurements
* Prime Numbers Up To 100
* Prime and Composite Numbers
Classifying Numbers
* Factor Tree
* Greatest Common Factor
* Finding the LCM
* Ratios, Proportions, and Percents Activities for 5th Grade
* Find perimeter for polygons- quiz
* 5th Grade Test: Geometry and spatial reasoning
* Geometry Transformations Quiz
* Polygons Quiz
* Multiplication worksheets
* Division worksheets
* Place value worksheets
* Finding Average worksheets
* Rounding worksheets
* Roman Numeral worksheets
* Solve for unknown one variable equations - Algebra notation
* Order of Operatons Worksheets
* Decimal Worksheets for Fifth Grade
* Decimal Worksheets addition and subtraction
* Decimal Multiplication Worksheets
* Decimals Place Value Worksheets
* Decimals Addition Worksheets
* Fractions Worksheets for Fifth Grade
* All Fractions Worksheets(Improper, Mixed Number and adding fractions)
* Fraction Addition Worksheets
* Fraction Subtraction Worksheets
* Fraction Multiplication Worksheets
* Fraction Division Worksheets
* Mixed number to improper fraction worksheets
* Improper Fractions and Mixed number worksheets
* Comparing fractions worksheets
* Ordering fractions worksheets (Select Level 2)
* Simplify Fractions Worksheets
* Equivalent Fractions Worksheets (Advanced)
* Mixed Number Fractions Worksheets
* Exponents Worksheets for Fifth Grade
* Exponents less than greater than worksheets
* Expanded Form to Standard Form Worksheets
* Standard Form to Expanded Form Exponents Worksheets
* Scientific Notation Worksheet
* Factors Worksheets for 5th Grade
* Greatest Common Factor worksheets
* Find All Factors worksheets
* Factor Tree Worksheets
* Ratios, Proportions, and Percents Worksheets for 5th Grade
* Graph paper generator
* Geometry Worksheets

--
Bobby G.

funny, most HS grads these days can't count back change.

Most? *You must travel in different circles than I do. *I can't see how
businesses survive if "most" of their counter employees are giving the wrong
change back. *Implying that Americans are that fu&ing stupid is something
I'd expect from Harry or HomeGuy. *It's sad to see HeyBub (and you?) join
the ranks of the America bashers here.

Most. *If the register doesn't tell them how much to hand back, they're
helpless. *Yes, they *will* give the wrong change. *My wife is constantly
having problems training "kids" who can't count money. *...and she works in a
bank.

And most of *them will need to whilst working at mcdonalds. *I think the
point he was
trying to make is that they don't teach any PRACTICAL math anymore.
Just feel good **** and stuff that doesn't matter.

If that's what you want to believe, then more power to you. *But looking at
what they're actually being taught and tested on tells a different, slightly
less pessimistic, much more truthful story. *While smart cash registers have
reduced the need for employees to mentally calculate the change, I don't
think it's fair to slander the entire 5th grade population of the country by
insinuating that they're all doing "2 + 2" math or that they don't know
numbers from colors. *It's just more pointless America bashing AFAICT and
this time from an American, not some damn furriner. *That's sad to see.
Especially in a newsgroup that has nothing at all to do with 5th grade math
education.

The fact is that schools are dumbed down. *Test scores show it clearly.

I have a son in his 30s and a teenage daughter and I dont see where
anything has been dumbed down.

Look at the SATs over the last 30 years, particularly the math scores. ...and
that's been dumbed down, too. Look at the worldwide rankings.

Being witness to what has been taught
over 3 generations shows me that schools have been steadily advancing.

You're blind.

What I have seen is a serious lack of parent involvement in their kids
education. Basically what Im seeing is moms and dads going off to work
in the mornings kids going to school, everybody comes home in the
evening and flops in front of the computer or TV set. There are kids
who get it and kids who don't and the difference is PARENTING.

Nonsense. Schools are no longer about students. They're about the adults,
primarily the teachers and unions.

"JIMMIE" wrote in message
news:3ab80a5e-05fa-41c6-9edd-

I have a son in his 30s and a teenage daughter and I dont see where
anything has been dumbed down. Being witness to what has been taught
over 3 generations shows me that schools have been steadily advancing.

Tests scores indicate tests that may or may not be able to accurately assess
the totality of intelligence required to live in today's world. Do the
SAT's in any way measure proficiency with a PC, a skill now required of most
employees? No. Intelligence is a very plastic thing that changes in subtle
ways from generation to generation. Is a 65 year old stupid because he
can't program his digital watch? Probably not, but it's a skill set that's
much more readily found among the young.

What I have seen is a serious lack of parent involvement in their kids
education. Basically what Im seeing is moms and dads going off to work
in the mornings kids going to school, everybody comes home in the
evening and flops in front of the computer or TV set. There are kids
who get it and kids who don't and the difference is PARENTING.

I'll agree with that. Parenting has changed drastically in the last 50
years. The days when a mother could stay home and take care of the kids is
mostly over. What I remember is doing stuff so advanced that my parents
couldn't really help me with my homework because it included things they had
never learned - like set theory. Somehow I managed to get a Regent's
scholarship, though. In a way, I can't bring myself to fault parents
because a lot of people are working pretty long hours to make sure they stay
off the lay off lists. I know that Adm. Rickover worked my dad and his
people so hard that dad looked like he had just come back from a war every
night he came home. And that was often with papers to read, work to do,
etc. He had the intellect to help, but every ounce of extra strength was
sapped by his day job. Mom didn't have the education to help.

As for kids not being able to count out change - I suspect our educational
system had higher hopes for them than being a counterman/woman at McDonalds.
With the advent of change-calculating cash registers there's little need to
know how to calculate the correct change on the fly and it enables employers
to hire ever dumber employees, hoping that machines will account for the
difference in IQ. Most of us don't realize how much there is to know about
everything and how much that knowledgebase expands each year. The US Army
is happy that American kids play so many computer games because modern
weapon systems are very much joystick and screen oriented.

--
Bobby G.