The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

On Oct 22, 11:05*pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
* It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level
of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

You wouldn't be using Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease for that
purpose at all...

The Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease you refer to above is used
to keep valve stems lubricated... The only thing you might use
teflon tape on near a valve stem is as a temporary repair to the
packing to stop it from leaking before you either properly rebuild
the valve or replace it...

~~ Evan

On Oct 22, 8:05*pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
* It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief & recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief& recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob


Here's grease sold as a sealant:
http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html

Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant

Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating.

Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the
housing was pitted. The valve grease completes the seal between the
o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. It may also prevent further
pitting.

A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. I
used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. This helped me screw it in
tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. In
the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable
grease, instead? It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.

Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The
tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level
of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...


The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by
providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that
provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a
complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain
application.

On Oct 23, 3:25*am, J Burns wrote:
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:



On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J *wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease..
* *It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate *substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief& *recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) *the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

Here's grease sold as a sealant:http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html

Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant

Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating.

Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the
housing was pitted. *The valve grease completes the seal between the
o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. *It may also prevent further
pitting.

A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. *I
used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. *This helped me screw it in
tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. *In
the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable
grease, instead? *It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The standard for water plumbing is to use either teflon
or pipe dope, both of which are cheap and available
anywhere. Don't see why anyone would want to use
anything else.

What does the grease container say? Website?

On Oct 23, 5:01*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The
tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level
of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by
providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that
provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a
complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain
application.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One major reason for not using teflon tape in certain applications is
the small pieces that get cut loose during the threading operation and
screw up equipment down stream. Thus it is bad to use it in hydraulic
systems.

I used to work in a farm equipmen manufacturing plant. We learned not
ot use it on the hydraulic systems frothat reason. Had seveeral
returns where we had to tear down and overhaul hydralic pumps due to
teflon in the close tolerance places. I suppose the same would be
true for gas lines.

Harry K

On 10/23/2011 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief& recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob


Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound
in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was
always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to
tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it
in bunches.

On 10/23/2011 12:22 PM, Art Todesco wrote:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob


Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound
in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always
taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the
teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches.
Oops, I must be dyslexic today. I looked at it again and someone must
have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked Sorry for the rant.

On Oct 23, 5:01*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The
tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level
of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by
providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that
provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a
complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain
application.



Hey Bub-

Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information?

"avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier
by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads
that
provides the sealing of the joint."

In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established
that........
NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION.

The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the
thread crests and valleys.
NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK.

Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal.

I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace
wrong information.

On Oct 23, 9:26*am, Art Todesco wrote:
On 10/23/2011 12:22 PM, Art Todesco wrote:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound
in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always
taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the
teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches.

Oops, I must be dyslexic today. *I looked at it again and someone must
have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked *Sorry for the rant.

Art-

Actually, I can see why you thought that.
Two of the pipe wraps are clearly correct but the one with the tape
roll is very misleading
in that the roll of tape and the "loose end" are in visual
conflict.
If the "loose end" in the illustration were removed it would be
visually correct.

Looks like the graphic designer / Adobe Illustrator jockey doesn't do
much thread wrapping.

cheers
Bob

On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:

Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

No. The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the
fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal.

Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the
PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant)
to any small leaks.

Jon

On 10/23/11 10:02 AM, wrote:
On Oct 23, 3:25 am, J wrote:
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:



On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief& recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

Here's grease sold as a sealant:http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html

Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant

Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating.

Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the
housing was pitted. The valve grease completes the seal between the
o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. It may also prevent further
pitting.

A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. I
used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. This helped me screw it in
tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. In
the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable
grease, instead? It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The standard for water plumbing is to use either teflon
or pipe dope, both of which are cheap and available
anywhere. Don't see why anyone would want to use
anything else.

What does the grease container say? Website?

Thanks, I think I'm getting somewhere.

I had used silicone sealing grease in the military. It's sticky, inert,
and heat resistant. Later, I thought it would be just the thing for
plumbing. (It is used for plumbing at sea.)

It came to mind when my cartridge leaked. I came across the term
"plumber's grease" online and thought it must be similar. The tube of
Harvey's said it could be used in steam systems up to 350F. I thought,
"That's it!"

It worked, but in taking a second look, I found that it smells like
petroleum grease and isn't as sticky as silicone sealing grease. The
MSDS says it's general purpose lithium grease.

I've had good luck with teflon tape, but sometimes I've had to try again
because I'd applied too much for a good mechanical connection. You need
the right tape for the application. It takes two hands, and you could
end up with a bit of tape in an orifice or valve. If I applied sealing
grease to the male threads, it seems I could do it with one hand, it
wouldn't interfere mechanically, and any excess would be squeezed to the
outside, not the inside.

I've never used pipe dope because it used to harden. That could make a
joint hard to unscrew and leave the contents of a container useless.
Now I see they have non-hardening dope. I wonder how it differs from
sealing grease.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:46:54 -0400, J Burns
wrote:

I had used silicone sealing grease in the military. It's sticky, inert,
and heat resistant. Later, I thought it would be just the thing for
plumbing. (It is used for plumbing at sea.)

I use silicone lube for pool valves, O-rings, etc., exposed to
chemicals in the pool.

As for plumber's grease, I understand it is a lube used in sink faucet
repair -- water supply in food preparation areas -- "food grade". The
grease is a lube not a sealant.

That could explain thier problems, you think? Nothing like
having your underw^h^h^h^h^h teflon tape in a bunch.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Art Todesco" wrote in message
...

2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob


Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon
tape all wound
in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads?
I was
always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would
tend to
tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and
possibly gather it
in bunches.

..doog lla s'tI .melborp oN

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Art Todesco" wrote in message
...


Oops, I must be dyslexic today. I looked at it again and
someone must
have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked
Sorry for the rant.

Working in a modern power plant for 30+ years we used nothing but teflon
tape in the instrument dept.
HP steam which condensed to h2o at pressures up to 3-5000 psi on our
instruments, and hydraulic pressures on the turbines that approached
10,000 psi teflon was an excellent choice.
Quality of np threads is essential for a secure connection.
Case in point a few fittings from Lowes (made in Chine) purchased for a
home plumbing job could not seal, I decided to allow the drip to seal
itself as it did.
Thread quality is what it's all about

On 10/22/2011 11:05 PM, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says
it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous.
The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra
level of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe
easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the
threads that provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to
provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required
for certain application.



Hey Bub-

Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information?

"avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier
by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads
that
provides the sealing of the joint."

In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established
that........
NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION.

The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the
thread crests and valleys.
NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK.

Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal.

I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace
wrong information.

Sigh.

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia.

"For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a
leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME
B1.20.1

On Oct 23, 6:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous.
The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra
level of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe
easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the
threads that provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to
provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required
for certain application.

Hey Bub-

Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information?

"avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier
by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads
that
provides the sealing of the joint."

In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established
that........
NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION.

The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the
thread crests and valleys.
NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK.

Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal.

I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace
wrong information.

Sigh.

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia.

"For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a
leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME
B1.20.1- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if
the thead "deforms"? I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years
ago that were probably reused at least once already.

Harry K

On Oct 23, 9:22*am, Art Todesco wrote:
On 10/23/2011 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:



On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J *wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease..
* *It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate *substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief& *recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) *the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound
in the wrong direction! *Or are they using reverse threads? *I was
always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to
tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it
in bunches.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's correct. Example. Hold pipe in left hand with threads sticking
out to the right. Wrap tape around with right hand rotating over top
to the outside (or 'right').

Wrapped the other way will usually wind up with all the tape pushed
right off the threads.

Harry K

On Oct 23, 11:36*am, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 9:26*am, Art Todesco wrote:





On 10/23/2011 12:22 PM, Art Todesco wrote:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound
in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always
taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the
teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches.

Oops, I must be dyslexic today. *I looked at it again and someone must
have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked *Sorry for the rant.

Art-

Actually, I can see why you thought that.
Two of the pipe wraps are clearly correct but the one with the tape
roll is very misleading
*in that the roll of tape and the "loose end" are in visual
conflict.
If the "loose end" in the illustration were removed it would be
visually correct.

Looks like the graphic designer / *Adobe Illustrator jockey doesn't do
much thread wrapping.

cheers
Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dunno why the artist put that full, closed roll where he did. the
'loose end' is from teh wrap around the pipe and doesn't even go with
that roll.

Harry K

On Oct 23, 12:41*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:

Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

No. *The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the
fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal.

Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the
PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant)
to any small leaks.

Jon

Jon-

You (as others) are repeating an incorrect urban / suburban legend.

Tefon tape is just a different form of pipe sealant.

Lubricant ALONE grease or oil, non solids, is will seal properly cut
NPT threads.

Take a look in Machinery's Handbook (or any mechanical reference) and
examine the NPT thread forms.
There is not complete metal to metal contact, the thread crests &
valleys never contact each other ..... no matter how how tight the
joint is made.

Thus a spiral leak path exists. Without something to seal this leak
path, the joint will leak.

cheers
Bob

On Oct 23, 12:41*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:

Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

No. *The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the
fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal.

Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the
PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant)
to any small leaks.

Jon

Jon-

"The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that
the fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal"

I can't know "the main reason people use PTFE" but......

If we are referring to NPT threads (the kind used in normal piping
applications & found by the 100000's in plumbing depts) .....lubricant
alone will not seal them, no matter how tightly they are torqued. NPT
threads are not designed to interfere.

The NPT thread forms have a "designed & mfr'd"crest to valley
clearance. This clearance forms a spiral leak path........sealant
required.

Only NPTF (dry seal tapered pipe threads) are meant to be uses w/o
sealant... complete metal to metal contact.

Check out the NPT thread form (Machinery's Handbook or other ref)
& you will understand the leak path. Complete metal to metal contact
does not happen.

cheers
Bob

On Oct 23, 6:54*pm, Harry K wrote:
On Oct 23, 6:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:









DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous.
The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra
level of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe
easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the
threads that provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to
provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required
for certain application.

Hey Bub-

Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information?

"avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier
by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads
that
provides the sealing of the joint."

In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established
that........
NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION.

The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the
thread crests and valleys.
NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK.

Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal.

I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace
wrong information.

Sigh.

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia.

"For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a
leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME
B1.20.1- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if
the thead "deforms"? *I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years
ago that were probably reused at least once already.

Harry K

........So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous
times if the thread "deforms"? ......

Additional confirmation that NPT threads do not "deform" in use.

cheers
Bob

On Oct 23, 6:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous.
The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra
level of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe
easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the
threads that provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to
provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required
for certain application.

Hey Bub-

Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information?

"avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier
by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads
that
provides the sealing of the joint."

In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established
that........
NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION.

The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the
thread crests and valleys.
NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK.

Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal.

I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace
wrong information.

Sigh.

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia.

"For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a
leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME
B1.20.1


And what is your point?

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a
lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together,
to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia.

The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote:

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a
lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together,
to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal."

is wrong..........

as it relates to NPT threads ("normal" pipe threads).
NPT threads are probably the only type encountered by readers of this
newsgroup.

The frequency of use of NPTF pipe threads is vanishing small.....
this being a residential newsgroup most readers will seldom, if ever,
encounter them.

NPTF thread are typically used in systems where tape & dope are
prohibited. typically hydraulic systems with close clearance
"servo" valves.


This quote

"For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a
leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing."
ANSI/ASME B1.20.1

is correct.

And will notice there is no mention of lubrication.

cheers
Bob

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 18:58:27 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:



That's correct. Example. Hold pipe in left hand with threads sticking
out to the right. Wrap tape around with right hand rotating over top
to the outside (or 'right').

Wrapped the other way will usually wind up with all the tape pushed
right off the threads.


Most of the thin tape I've used can be stretched as it's put on.
Goes deep into the threads and the torn end disappears with a twist of
the fingers. It won't unwind or "bunch up" if put on backwards.
Some of the older thick tape would though.

--Vic

On Oct 23, 3:46*pm, J Burns wrote:
On 10/23/11 10:02 AM, wrote:



On Oct 23, 3:25 am, J *wrote:
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:

On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J * *wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
* * It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

This grease is not an appropriate *substitute for teflon tape.

This grease is a lubricant.
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant.

Contrary to the belief& * *recommendations some:

1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of
sealant; dope or tape
2) *the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas
http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf

cheers
Bob

Here's grease sold as a sealant:http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html

Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant

Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating.

Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the
housing was pitted. *The valve grease completes the seal between the
o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. *It may also prevent further
pitting.

A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. *I
used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. *This helped me screw it in
tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. *In
the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable
grease, instead? *It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The standard for water plumbing is to use either teflon
or pipe dope, both of which are cheap and available
anywhere. *Don't see why anyone would want to use
anything else.

What does the grease container say? *Website?

Thanks, I think I'm getting somewhere.

I had used silicone sealing grease in the military. *It's sticky, inert,
and heat resistant. *Later, I thought it would be just the thing for
plumbing. *(It is used for plumbing at sea.)

It came to mind when my cartridge leaked. *I came across the term
"plumber's grease" online and thought it must be similar. *The tube of
Harvey's said it could be used in steam systems up to 350F. *I thought,
"That's it!"

It worked, but in taking a second look, I found that it smells like
petroleum grease and isn't as sticky as silicone sealing grease. *The
MSDS says it's general purpose lithium grease.

I've had good luck with teflon tape, but sometimes I've had to try again
because I'd applied too much for a good mechanical connection. *You need
the right tape for the application. *It takes two hands, and you could
end up with a bit of tape in an orifice or valve. *If I applied sealing
grease to the male threads, it seems I could do it with one hand, it
wouldn't interfere mechanically, and any excess would be squeezed to the
outside, not the inside.

I've never used pipe dope because it used to harden. *That could make a
joint hard to unscrew and leave the contents of a container useless.
Now I see they have non-hardening dope. *I wonder how it differs from
sealing grease.

Yup... Valve stems on steam valves need lubrication to keep them
moving freely... The steam piping gets and stays quite hot during
the times the system is providing heating energy... You need a grease
or lubricant which won't cook off...

~~ Evan

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:



Yup... Valve stems on steam valves need lubrication to keep them
moving freely... The steam piping gets and stays quite hot during
the times the system is providing heating energy... You need a grease
or lubricant which won't cook off...

~~ Evan

Might be true for some applications, but I never heard of lubing steam
valves.
I worked as a Navy boilerrman for 3 1/2 years.
Steam systems don't like any type of oil contamination.
All the steam valves I worked with - a lot of them - used graphite
infused packing around the stems.

--Vic

On Oct 23, 8:01*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve
Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The
tube
says it resists high temperatures.

I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used
grease instead of teflon tape?

@J Burns:

In what application ?

Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level
of
sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape...

In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place
of using teflon tape...

The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by
providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that
provides the sealing of the joint.

Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a
complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain
application.

Yup, that would be the difference between something which must be
liquid tight and something which needs to be air tight to contain a
gas...

Some plumbing codes require the use of pipe dope on natural
gas piping even though there is a teflon tape which is allowed for
that
use in other jurisdictions...

~~ Evan

In article ,
Harry K wrote:
...snipped...
So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if
the thead "deforms"? I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years
ago that were probably reused at least once already.

Harry K

I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed
to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur
well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the
fitting is unscrewed.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

I think Young's Law needs a correlary for teflon tape.

From: "Stormin Mormon"
Subject: Young's Law of Usenet
Date: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:55 PM

Is WD a lubricant, or....

Young's Law of usenet: After Nazis have been
evoked and called forth from the spirit world,
someone is sure to mention WD-40. The debate
"is it a lubricant or water displacer" is not
complete until someone explains what the letters
abbrev. for. Points are earned by quoting usenet
posters of old, Aristotle, or your own personal
experiences with WD-40. Web pages abound, and
are on topic for the debate. Regardless of how
worthy an argument is, no one is allowed to change
sides. The debate must continue to eternity.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..



"Larry W" wrote in message
...

I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape
is designed
to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation
can occur
well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed
when the
fitting is unscrewed.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.
lonestar.org

DD_BobK wrote:



The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote:

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a
lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together,
to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal."

is wrong..........


Are you INSANE?

The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take it to
the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a whole religion
around it!

Friggin' pagan!

Evan wrote:
Some plumbing codes require the use of pipe dope on natural
gas piping even though there is a teflon tape which is allowed for
that
use in other jurisdictions...


Personally, I gave up on teflon for gas pipe. The dope is way more dependable.

On Oct 24, 2:52*am, (Larry W) wrote:
In article ,
Harry K wrote:
...snipped...

So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if
the thead "deforms"? *I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years
ago that were probably reused at least once already.

Harry K

I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed
to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur
well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the
fitting is unscrewed.

--
* * *Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

* * *Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

Surrre it fixes itself.

Harry K

On Oct 24, 2:52*am, (Larry W) wrote:
In article ,
Harry K wrote:
...snipped...

So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if
the thead "deforms"? *I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years
ago that were probably reused at least once already.

Harry K

I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed
to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur
well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the
fitting is unscrewed.

--
* * *Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

* * *Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

Now we're going to get into the mechanics of materials?

These are NPT threaded joints we're discussing.....
Elastic / non-yeilding deformation vs plastic / yielding deformation
is irrelevant to the discussion.

Look at the thread form of NPT threads....they need a sealant.
Look at the joint torques for common NPT thread sizes.

Harry K's comment was spot on...your comment is splitting hairs at
best

cheers
Bob

On Oct 24, 7:16*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:

The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote:

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a
lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together,
to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal."

is wrong..........

Are you INSANE?

The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take it to
the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a whole religion
around it!

Friggin' pagan!


You never addressed my question...

"And what is your point?" with respect to showing the wikipedia
quote,

Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage
or to show the source of your misinformation?

Instead you resort to comedy.......

How about ......

"I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT
threads. NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant
alone."

It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation.
Try it.

People come to A.H.R for information.
Spreading your misinformation is a disservice.

DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 24, 7:16 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:

The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote:

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a
lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed
together, to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal."

is wrong..........

Are you INSANE?

The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take
it to the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a
whole religion around it!

Friggin' pagan!


You never addressed my question...

"And what is your point?" with respect to showing the wikipedia
quote,

Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage
or to show the source of your misinformation?

Instead you resort to comedy.......

How about ......

"I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT
threads. NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant
alone."

It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation.
Try it.

People come to A.H.R for information.
Spreading your misinformation is a disservice.

I was NOT wrong. The Wikipedia entry speaks for itself. It does not mention
NPT threads, champagne corks, wooden pegs, nails, ordinary screws, or glue.
I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific
cases.

That you are looking for some nit to pick may give you great pleasure. I am
glad I was able to feed your hobby.

On Oct 24, 4:43*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 24, 7:16 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:

The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote:

"The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a
lubricating
function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed
together, to
the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal."

is wrong..........

Are you INSANE?

The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take
it to the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a
whole religion around it!

Friggin' pagan!

You never addressed my question...

"And what is your point?" * with respect to showing the wikipedia
quote,

Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage
or to show the source of your misinformation?

Instead you resort to comedy.......

How about ......

"I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT
threads. *NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant
alone."

It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation.
Try it.

People come to A.H.R for information.
Spreading your misinformation is a disservice.

I was NOT wrong. The Wikipedia entry speaks for itself. It does not mention
NPT threads, champagne corks, wooden pegs, nails, ordinary screws, or glue.
I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific
cases.

That you are looking for some nit to pick may give you great pleasure. I am
glad I was able to feed your hobby.




"I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for
specific cases."

Nice tap dance........

but despite your "performance" any tapered pipe thread joint, other
than NPTF (dryseal), needs a sealant.
Which would be teflon tape or dope. Teflon tape is a sealant not
merely a lubricant.

To continue to insist that pipe threads do not need sealant is to
mislead & misinform.

On Oct 23, 11:25*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Evan

wrote:

Yup... *Valve stems on steam valves need lubrication to keep them
moving freely... *The steam piping gets and stays quite hot during
the times the system is providing heating energy... *You need a grease
or lubricant which won't cook off...

~~ Evan

Might be true for some applications, but I never heard of lubing steam
valves.
I worked as a Navy boilerrman for 3 1/2 years.
Steam systems don't like any type of oil contamination.
All the steam valves I worked with - a lot of them - used graphite
infused packing around the stems.

--Vic

That might be the case on a Navy ship boiler system where the
steam is being used for very sensitive applications like the
expanding steam turbine turning gear for propulsion... But in
a home or commercial heating system using steam -- there is
a lot more harmful stuff in the _water_ than a bit of grease getting
past a failed gasket on a valve at a radiator...

~~ Evan

DD_BobK wrote:


"I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for
specific cases."

Nice tap dance........

but despite your "performance" any tapered pipe thread joint, other
than NPTF (dryseal), needs a sealant.
Which would be teflon tape or dope. Teflon tape is a sealant not
merely a lubricant.

To continue to insist that pipe threads do not need sealant is to
mislead & misinform.

Heh! Nice tap dance...

I never said that pipe threads do not need a sealant. To claim that I did is
far worse than claiming I misinformed.