On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 18:18:49 -0700, Pat wrote:

Your well pump can pump 5 gallons per minute.
Your well can supply half a gallon per minute or 720 gallons per day.

It's even worse than that because it shuts off every few minutes; then it
waits exactly 1/2 hour, and then kicks on again.

In two days, the tanks rose about 20 inches, which, at 40 gallons
calculated per inch, is 800 gallons ... or 400 gallons a day.

As you said, my only choice is to conserve.

Later, when money permits, I will consider drilling another well (the
property has an elevation change of about 400 feet, so, what I can do is
put the well at the low point of the property and pump it up to the house).

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:57:02 -0700, SF Man
wrote Re May I compare my well water setup to yours (3,094 usable
gallons):

In the dry season, I can't "afford" to irrigate as much (because the house
uses whatever it uses, and the pool uses about 500 gallons every few days).

So, here's my short-term plan:
- Shut off the irrigation (the plants will need to fend for themselves)
- Fix the pool leaks
- Irrigate manually only when the tanks are full

Is drilling the well deeper an option?


I'm curious how much a pool evaporates.

Those of you with a pool, assuming no leaks, how much does yours evaporate?
(Note: The pool surface area is approximately 900 square feet and it's in
the sun all day, from 6am to about 8pm or so right about now).

1/2" to 1" per day
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_w...es_from_a_pool

--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:59:12 -0700, SF Man
wrote Re May I compare my well water setup to yours (3,094 usable
gallons):

Later, when money permits, I will consider drilling another well (the
property has an elevation change of about 400 feet, so, what I can do is
put the well at the low point of the property and pump it up to the house).

There is not guarantee that you will hit water at the low point of the
property.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

wrote:

How does one turn sunlight into water with solar panels? Or anything
else in a residential desert environment for that matter?

By selling electricity back to the grid, and use the savings to drill a
deeper well!

On Aug 13, 11:59*pm, SF Man wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 18:18:49 -0700, Pat wrote:
Your well pump can pump 5 gallons per minute.
Your well can supply half a gallon per minute or 720 gallons per day.

It's even worse than that because it shuts off every few minutes; then it
waits exactly 1/2 hour, and then kicks on again.

No one has commented on this yet and I think it could
be important. How exactly does it
shut off and wait 30 mins? The issue here is normally
a well pump is designed to run continously and not
run out of water. But since you have those huge tanks
it appears this well was set up to accomodate low flow
from the start. If so, it may have some special mechanism
to cycle the pump. So some thoughts:

A - If it has some special cycling arrangement, is it
possible that is what's screwed up and it might be
short cycling even though the well has not really
run out of water?

B - If doesn't have some special cycling arrangement,
what is shutting it off and keeping it off for 30 mins?
If it's that the pump runs dry and is overheating, I'd
think you'd want to institute some kind of cycling
system, perhaps with a timer, to stop that from
happening. I doubt a submersible pump likes to
run dry, overheat, shutdown. It relies on the water
to cool it.

SF Man wrote:

Turn the sunlight into water.
Huh? How?

I was thinking if your 'plant' is big enough you can sell electrons back
to the power company, plus the savings you could put the $$ towards a
new well.


ROI for solar panels is still about 20 years

I calculated the ROI was about 7 years since we're paying about 50 cents
per KW hour for the last two weeks (or so) of the month (it starts at 12
cents per KW hour for the first week or so).

7 years! That's a no-brainier if you plan to live there longer than
that. Then you'll be "off-grid" if need be, and have a trusty new water
well too. If your capacity is high enough, you'll have an income stream
with Edison Electric selling *them* energy.

I pay .14/KWh no matter how much I use (I'm on the Texas grid).

On Aug 13, 8:49*pm, SF Man wrote:
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 05:30:18 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:
Otherwise he can
wait it out and the level will slowly recover.

That's what I'm doing (I have no other choice).

In the last two days, the tank level changed by 20 inches.

That's 20x40 gallons per inch (approx.) which is 800 gallons.

So, it looks like the well, in the middle of the dry season (roughly March
or April to December), can only supply about 400 gallons per day.

So, my 'ration' will have to be 400 gallons per day ... like it or not.

Or is it. IIRC you said your pump requires a 30minute "off" befoe it
starts again. Your well may be recovering a lot faster than that.

You perhaps could put the pump on an adjustable timer so it shuts off
_before_ it runs out of water and then pumps again in, say, 15
minutes.

Harry K

On Aug 14, 6:31*am, "
wrote:


No one has commented on this yet and I think it could
be important. * How exactly does it
shut off and wait 30 mins? * The issue here is normally
a well pump is designed to run continously and not
run out of water. * But since you have those huge tanks
it appears this well was set up to accomodate low flow
from the start. *If so, it may have some special mechanism
to cycle the pump. *

Good comments

...perhaps his "short cycling" & "dead period" is really a pump control
issue and not completely a well recharge issue.

Getting the pump behavior to match the well / aquifer behavior might
be easiest way to maximize water output.

cheers
Bob

On Aug 13, 8:57*pm, SF Man wrote:

SNIP

I'm curious how much a pool evaporates.

Those of you with a pool, assuming no leaks, how much does yours evaporate?
(Note: The pool surface area is approximately 900 square feet and it's in
the sun all day, from 6am to about 8pm or so right about now).


Long term pool experience:

Large residential pool in OC, SoCal.
20x40 , all day exposure (yard / pool orientation, East /West)

Winter time usage ~1/2" per week
Summer time water usage ~1/4" to 1/2" per day.
Occasional high wind / hot weather usage as high as 1" per day.

Suggestion: Cover pool to reduce water loss & improve "swimability".

cheers
Bob

In article , SF Man
wrote:

I don't have solar yet (although most of the neighbors do). We have more
sun than we know what to do with. It's sunny from 6am to 9pm at the height
of the summer. Rarely is it a cloudy day. The fog comes in at night and
dissipates by 10 am when it's around.

Fog is water. Your plants/landscape should be capable of collecting the fog. Or
you need to xeriscape.

Or you could collect some of the fog for additional free supply of water.



Only two of the pool pumps are constantly running during the day. It's
useless to run them at night because of the solar heating panels (they'd be
solar cooling panels at night). So, they have to run during the day. One
pump is for the fancy cleaning system; and the other pump is for the
filter. Both must run at the same time (2.2 horsepower each). They run
about 15 hours a day. I really have no choice in that matter,
unfortunately, except to put up about 50K dollars and go solar with about
15 KW of panels.

I can't imagine it is necessary to run the cleaning system every day, especially
if you were to invest in a pool cover. Additionally, the pool cover would tend
to heat the water (if it is a dark cover) so you save both water and electricity.

I'd speak to several pool companies and see if your cleaning system can be put
on a managed controller to run for one hour on, one hour off (and that would be
my worst case scenario) which once again lowers your electric bills plus lowers
your maintenance costs. You might be able to even go one day without running the
thing and the next running sporadically. Just seems like you are running it too
long.

Another option is to get time of day billing for the electricity and run the
pumps off-peak.

Have you spoken to your power provider about getting an energy audit (currently
for PGE they are $99 for a full house audit and then you may qualify for up to
$9000 in rebates for upgrades, but they may also have suggestions about your
pool setup

In article , SF Man
wrote:

Only two of the pool pumps are constantly running during the day. It's
useless to run them at night because of the solar heating panels (they'd be
solar cooling panels at night). So, they have to run during the day. One
pump is for the fancy cleaning system; and the other pump is for the
filter. Both must run at the same time (2.2 horsepower each). They run
about 15 hours a day. I really have no choice in that matter,
unfortunately, except to put up about 50K dollars and go solar with about
15 KW of panels.


SF Man-


I missed your description of your pool pumps' duty cycles.

Having lived in SoCal homes with pools for nearly 30 years (bummer, I
know)......
there is no way you need to run two pumps (2+ hp) for 15 hours per
day to keep the pool clean.

It makes no sense to run your solar panels 15 hrs per day.

Your entire setup is a ridiculous waste of energy.

cheers
Bob

On Aug 15, 2:02*am, DD_BobK wrote:
In article , SF Man
wrote:
Only two of the pool pumps are constantly running during the day. It's
useless to run them at night because of the solar heating panels (they'd be
solar cooling panels at night). So, they have to run during the day. One
pump is for the fancy cleaning system; and the other pump is for the
filter. Both must run at the same time (2.2 horsepower each). They run
about 15 hours a day. I really have no choice in that matter,
unfortunately, except to put up about 50K dollars and go solar with about
15 KW of panels.

SF Man-

I missed your description of your pool pumps' duty cycles.

Having lived in SoCal homes with pools for nearly 30 years (bummer, I
know)......
there is no way you need to run two *pumps (2+ hp) *for 15 hours per
day to keep the pool clean.

It makes no sense to run your solar panels 15 hrs per day.

Your entire setup is a ridiculous waste of energy.

cheers
Bob

I missed the pool pump part. I agree it would have to be one
hell of a pool to need two 2+hp pumps runningg 15 hours
a day to keep it clean. And I think he said he was paying
25c per kwh for electricity.

48,000 gallon pool here, DE filter and it can be kept clean
with two 1 hp pumps. One is the main one and it needs to
run about 6 hours a day. The other is the Polaris cleaner
booster pump and it runs about 1/3 of that time,
averageing maybe 2 or 3 hours a day. It actually
runs the full 6 hours, but only every second or third
day.

It's actually running more now because it's now set
up for solar heat. But without needing that, the
above schedule worked fine. Of course it does
depend on the environment, what's around to
blow into the pool, usage, etc.

I'd be interested in knowing if he's tried backing
off the amount of filtering. That's what I did.
The general rule of thumb is that the filtering
should move water equal to the pool volume
each day. But found out I could get away
with less than that.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 07:55:58 -0500, Caesar Romano wrote:

There is not guarantee that you will hit water at the low point of the
property.

Understood.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:31:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

How exactly does it shut off and wait 30 mins?

SEE ATTACHED PHOTOS:
1. House Side: http://picturepush.com/public/6347599
2. Pump Side: http://picturepush.com/public/6347607
3. Well Side: http://picturepush.com/public/6347612

If 'you' can make sense of the setup, I'd LOVE to know how it actually
works!

Why, for example, are their FOUR boxes for the well?

This one of those four boxes does the 30-minute timeout when the well runs
dry:
* Pumptec Model 5800020116 P/N 223122101 Rev 4
* The NoLoad Sensor Pump Protection System for Franklin Submersible Motors

Another box 'must' run the motor itself ... I think it's this one:
* Franklin Electric Model 2801074915, 3/4 HP, 230 volts

A third box is clearly the circuit breaker for the well pump electrical
feed.

The last box, has no writing on it, and I don't know 'what' it does.

If YOU (or anyone) knows what these four "well boxes" do, please edify me!

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:31:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A - If it has some special cycling arrangement, is it
possible that is what's screwed up and it might be
short cycling even though the well has not really
run out of water?

Yes. That's possible. However, I can 'reset' the cycle, at will, simply by
turning off the power via the circuit breaker.

When I do that, it pumps again, but, all the action is consistent with the
fact that it's running out of water.

For example, if I cycle it right away, almost nothing is pumped before it
shuts off; and if I switch it back on a bit later, more water is pumped.
The longer I wait, the more water is pumped before it shuts off (in a few
minutes).

This, I don't think, is the problem.

But, there are FOUR boxes (that could go bad).
1. One is the circuit breaker
2. The other is the no-load sensor (discussed above).

I'm not sure 'what' the other two a
3. One seems to be the pump controller itself.
4. I'm not sure 'what' that fourth box is.

See photos he
1. House Side: http://picturepush.com/public/6347599
2. Pump Side: http://picturepush.com/public/6347607
3. Well Side: http://picturepush.com/public/6347612

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 07:54:16 -0500, Caesar Romano wrote:

Is drilling the well deeper an option?
I guess that's 'always' an option!

I would start 400 feet lower so the well wouldn't need to be as deep. But,
then the piping would be a few hundred yards in length.

1/2" to 1" per day
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_w...es_from_a_pool

Interesting. For my pool, 1 inch is about 500 gallons. So that's jives with
what I'm seeing (500 gallons every few days).

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:04:01 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK wrote:

Occasional high wind / hot weather usage as high as 1" per day.
Suggestion: Cover pool to reduce water loss & improve "swimability".

This meshes with what I'm seeing.

For me, 1 inch is 500 gallons of pool and I lose about an inch every few
days.

I think a pool cover is in order!

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 08:24:05 -0500, G. Morgan wrote:

How does one turn sunlight into water with solar panels?

By selling electricity back to the grid, and use the savings to drill a
deeper well!

Ah. That idea went deeper than I at first imagined!

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:39:25 -0700, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

Or you could collect some of the fog for additional free supply of water.

Bearing in mind that it never rains here, but when it does, it pours ...

Some of my neighbors have 30,000 gallon water runoff tanks (basically
concrete bunkers sunk into the ground).

They collect runoff water during the rainy seasin (e.g., from the roof),
and funnel it into these holding tanks.

I'm not sure how long 30,000 gallons would last (with evaporation and
leakage) but I might need to consider that for irrigation in the future.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 23:02:01 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK wrote:
Your entire setup is a ridiculous waste of energy.

That, I don't doubt!

I didn't design the setup. I simply bought it already set up.

The pool has to have both pumps running in order to clean because one runs
the in-ground cleaning system while the other runs the filtering system.

You can't have one without the other; so both pumps must run.

The cleaning pump pushes all the mid-floating and sinking debris to the end
of the pool which has a steep dropoff to 'trap' it all in place for the
filter to pick it up.

The pool company told me it takes about a dozen hours to completely cycle
the pool cleaning system so they recommended the 15 hours a day for both
pumps.

Let's say I dropped the cleaning cycle to 12 hours a day, the next question
is still whether to clean during the day or night.

Since there are mechanical solar heating panels, the obvious choice is to
run the pumps during the day.

This was all pre-ordained before I bought the place.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 05:46:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I missed the pool pump part. I agree it would have to be one
hell of a pool to need two 2+hp pumps runningg 15 hours
a day to keep it clean. And I think he said he was paying
25c per kwh for electricity.

It's actually over 45 cents a KWh for the latter half of the month (only 12
cents per KWh for the first week or so).

The problem is that the pool cleaning is DESIGNED to have both pumps
running. One is the filtering system which does NOT run the skimmers. The
other runs the skimmers and the water jets built into the bottom of the
pool to 'push' water to the deep end where the filtering system will pick
it up.

So, whatever I do, it has to be TWO 2.2 HP pumps (yeah, I know, about 10
amps each) running for at least half a day. Otherwise the pool turns into
mud.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 05:46:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

48,000 gallon pool here, DE filter and it can be kept clean
with two 1 hp pumps. One is the main one and it needs to
run about 6 hours a day. The other is the Polaris cleaner
booster pump and it runs about 1/3 of that time

This pool is smaller, at less than 40K gallons, and the filter is a huge
oil-filter-like contraption in a big black bubble about 4 or 5 feet tall.

There is no vacuum cleaning to speak of. I did buy some hoses to clean the
pool manually but it ends up being a hassle because the pool was never
designed for a vacuum.

If I added a vacuum, the builders told me, it would break the jets that pop
up on the bottom of the pool anyway.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 05:46:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'd be interested in knowing if he's tried backing
off the amount of filtering.

I did.

The pool turned to mud in a month.

First green algae took over the sides and then the water became cloudy.

Tons and tons and tons of chlorine later ... I'm back to running the pumps!

On Aug 18, 3:18*pm, SF Man wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:31:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
How exactly does it shut off and wait 30 mins?

SEE ATTACHED PHOTOS:
1. House Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347599
2. Pump Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347607
3. Well Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347612

If 'you' can make sense of the setup, I'd LOVE to know how it actually
works!

Why, for example, are their FOUR boxes for the well?

This one of those four boxes does the 30-minute timeout when the well runs
dry:
* Pumptec Model 5800020116 P/N 223122101 Rev 4
* The NoLoad Sensor Pump Protection System for Franklin Submersible Motors

Another box 'must' run the motor itself ... I think it's this one:
* Franklin Electric Model 2801074915, 3/4 HP, 230 volts

A third box is clearly the circuit breaker for the well pump electrical
feed.

The last box, has no writing on it, and I don't know 'what' it does.

If YOU (or anyone) knows what these four "well boxes" do, please edify me!



I think you've already figured out what they do.

One is the breaker box where the electric for the system
is coming in, through the breaker and on to the pump

One is the pump controller. Submersibles come in
either 2 wire or 3 wire versions. The 3 wire ones use
an external controller to energize the start winding to
get the pump going. Hence they need a controller.
The two wire type have that built into the pump.
Apparently you have a 3 wire type.

One is the pump protection system that senses when
the well runs dry and cuts off the power to avoid
burning out the pump. That is what
is apparently cycling the pump at 30 min intervals.
But you say in another post that from other testing it
appears that is about the recovery rate of the well
anyway, so fiddling with the cycling time of this
box, assuming that's possible doesn't sound likely
to yield much in the way of improvement

One box is unused.

On Aug 18, 3:22*pm, SF Man wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:31:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
A - If it has some special cycling arrangement, is it
possible that is what's screwed up and it might be
short cycling even though the well has not really
run out of water?

Yes. That's possible. However, I can 'reset' the cycle, at will, simply by
turning off the power via the circuit breaker.

When I do that, it pumps again, but, all the action is consistent with the
fact that it's running out of water.

For example, if I cycle it right away, almost nothing is pumped before it
shuts off; and if I switch it back on a bit later, more water is pumped.
The longer I wait, the more water is pumped before it shuts off (in a few
minutes).

This, I don't think, is the problem.

I agree it's not the problem. The problem appears to be that
the well is only capable of a very low flow rate. You might be
able to get a little more delivery out of it though by optimizing
and adjusting the amount of time the pump is off after it
runs out of water. It should not be off any longer than it
takes for the well to recover. From what you've posted
its sounds like it's already close to that anyway, but you
might be able to cut the off time to say 25 mins and get
more water per day that way. It wouldn't be a lot, but
every bit helps I guess.





But, there are FOUR boxes (that could go bad).
1. One is the circuit breaker
2. The other is the no-load sensor (discussed above).

I'm not sure 'what' the other two a
3. One seems to be the pump controller itself.
4. I'm not sure 'what' that fourth box is.

I don't know either. I made an error in my previous post.
You said the 4th box has no "writing". I misread that as
no "wiring" and hence said it was unused. It may be
doing something. Taking the cover off and finding out
what's inside would be a start.

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say maybe a timer to
cycle the pump so that it avoids running out of water.
They might have had that before adding the electronic
Pumptec safety. Open it up and take a look.






See photos he
1. House Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347599
2. Pump Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347607
3. Well Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347612

What size is your pool? I calculate 802 square feet.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"SF Man" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:04:01 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK wrote:

Occasional high wind / hot weather usage as high as 1"
per day.
Suggestion: Cover pool to reduce water loss & improve
"swimability".

This meshes with what I'm seeing.

For me, 1 inch is 500 gallons of pool and I lose about an
inch every few
days.

I think a pool cover is in order!

SF Man wrote:

Let's say I dropped the cleaning cycle to 12 hours a day, the next question
is still whether to clean during the day or night.

I don't know much about pools, but I've heard it is better to run the
filter/Polaris during the day. Makes sense, since we're trying to kill
algae and they feed on light.

Since there are mechanical solar heating panels, the obvious choice is to
run the pumps during the day.

If you go full-solar you'll have a huge battery bank, transfer switch,
and a giant inverter. It won't be cheap but hey, if you pole-mount the
panels in the yard; you'll have less grass to water!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:45:20 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

What size is your pool? I calculate 802 square feet.

60 x 15 = 900 sq ft

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 00:06:47 -0500, G. Morgan wrote:

You can bring your electricity down to zero; but you can't go lower.
Can you accumulate credit with the power company for later use?

The way PG&E works it out here, is that they don't charge you for
electricity for the whole year. (Well, to be precise, they charge a nominal
amount, I think it's less than $10/month, just to be in the program ... but
that's a detail.)

All year, they keep track of what you use (we all have smart meters so they
know what you're using instantaneously).

Then, on December 31st, they tally it all up:
- If you didn't generate as much as you used, you owe them some money
- If you brought it down to exactly zero, nobody owes anyone
- If you brought it below zero, they say thank you for the free electricity

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:12:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

1. House Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347599
2. Pump Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347607
3. Well Side:http://picturepush.com/public/6347612

One box is unused.

I think you've helped me clarify the three boxes - but the fourth is
definitely used. There is 'stuff' inside the box. And, it's wired.

I don't know what that stuff is doing though ...

In daylight, tomorrow, I can snap a picture of the INSIDE of that fourth
box to see what it does.

But, so far, we have this:
1. Box1 is the circuit breaker
2. Box2 is the controller for the 3-wire submersed well pump
3. Box3 is the dry-well pump-protection circuit (times out for 30 minutes)
4. Box4 is ???

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:12:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

One is the pump protection system that senses when
the well runs dry and cuts off the power to avoid
burning out the pump. That is what
is apparently cycling the pump at 30 min intervals.
But you say in another post that from other testing it
appears that is about the recovery rate of the well
anyway, so fiddling with the cycling time of this
box, assuming that's possible doesn't sound likely
to yield much in the way of improvement

I would wholly agree with that sentiment.

It takes about a half hour just to get about 3 minutes to 5 minutes of well
water.

Then it goes dry.

In fact, it might be helpful for me to change the setting to one hour, so
as to cycle the pump less frequently.

I may devise a test to test that out.

SF Man wrote:

- If you brought it below zero, they say thank you for the free electricity

Heh, bummer!

SF Man wrote:


Then, on December 31st, they tally it all up:
- If you didn't generate as much as you used, you owe them some money
- If you brought it down to exactly zero, nobody owes anyone
- If you brought it below zero, they say thank you for the free electricity

The more I think about that, the more it smells. Why would CA impose a
law that would tend to -discourage- extra power generation? Sounds like
the power lobby got their way with your politicians. Last time I
looked, your state imports electricity from others. I guess all that
"Green" bull**** coming out of the mouths of your politicians are just
that.

Don't worry, our state is almost as screwed-up as yours! We are not
broke, -yet-. And nobody wants wind-turbines in their backyard, so the
same double-talk goes on here.

On Aug 19, 1:53*am, SF Man wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:12:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
One is the pump protection system that senses when
the well runs dry and cuts off the power to avoid
burning out the pump. * That is what
is apparently cycling the pump at 30 min intervals.
But you say in another post that from other testing it
appears that is about the recovery rate of the well
anyway, so fiddling with the cycling time of this
box, assuming that's possible doesn't sound likely
to yield much in the way of improvement

I would wholly agree with that sentiment.

It takes about a half hour just to get about 3 minutes to 5 minutes of well
water.

Then it goes dry.

In fact, it might be helpful for me to change the setting to one hour, so
as to cycle the pump less frequently.

I may devise a test to test that out.

Yes, I agree that's a good idea. At least with the water
available right now, it would be advantageous to find
the optimum off time. If it turns out you get just about
as much water per day cycling it once an hour, that
would be less wear and tear on the pump.

Batteries are very expensive. And only last a few years.
I've read in solar catalogs and manuals, it's much better to
use the power at the same instant. Run the pumps directly
off the panels, and don't use batteries. Ranchers in the
west, same counsell. Run the stock watering well pump
directly off the solar, and build a huge holding tank for
the water.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...

I don't know much about pools, but I've heard it is better
to run the
filter/Polaris during the day. Makes sense, since we're
trying to kill
algae and they feed on light.

Since there are mechanical solar heating panels, the
obvious choice is to
run the pumps during the day.

If you go full-solar you'll have a huge battery bank,
transfer switch,
and a giant inverter. It won't be cheap but hey, if you
pole-mount the
panels in the yard; you'll have less grass to water!

On Aug 19, 7:22*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Batteries are very expensive. And only last a few years.
I've read in solar catalogs and manuals, it's much better to
use the power at the same instant. Run the pumps directly
off the panels, and don't use batteries. Ranchers in the
west, same counsell. Run the stock watering well pump
directly off the solar, and build a huge holding tank for
the water.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"G. Morgan" wrote in message



There is no point in doing a solar anything to run just
the pool pumps. He has two 2 hp pumps that are
pulling 10 amps each. That would require a 4.8KW
system, which is the size of a small system for a
whole house. If he goes with solar, just make it
a true residential solar system that's tied to the
whole house and grid.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:56:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

you get just about
as much water per day cycling it once an hour, that
would be less wear and tear on the pump

It's an interesting concept: Pump less to get more water!

But, if I put it at an hour (or even longer), and it still drops out BEFORE
a half hour, then, I now understand, from what you're saying, that I'll
likely get as much water with fewer pump iterations!

Seems to me, any delay period (1 hour, 1.5 hours, 2 hours, etc.), that
results in water pumping for fewer than a half hour, is all equivalent in
terms of water gain.

Right?

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:04:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

There is no point in doing a solar anything to run just
the pool pumps. He has two 2 hp pumps that are
pulling 10 amps each.

I agree with you ... but ... when I looked it up when it was first
suggested, I noticed something called "dc pumps".

I didn't do the math (I don't know the math) but somehow, they 'change' the
pumps from my 220v AC pumps to DC pumps.

Solar 'seems' to work for those DC motors (but I haven't figured out the
economics on that).

I'd still need the 2.2 horsepower per pump so I tend to agree with you.
Better to put the effort into solar panels and not into a separate pump
system.