Sump Pump problem
 

A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump is located in the boiler room
and is there for the toilet, sink and shower in the basement bathroom We never used that bathroom,
except for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main floor bathroom. It always
worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I havent used it since. A while back, I wanted to
hear it work so I ran the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never went on. I thought that
maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high enough to turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me the sump pump does not work.
The pump has two wires coming from the big round base. It was plugged into the wall by one of the
plugs, and the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that it only used one outlet.
After he left, I decided to put each plug into its own outlet and it went on. I heard the pump and
the water. The problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear a loud hum coming from the
ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water being swished around. Does anyone have any
idea what it is doing? I know absolutely nothing about these things. Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony

Sump Pump problem
 

Tony wrote:
A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump
is located in the boiler room and is there for the toilet, sink and
shower in the basement bathroom We never used that bathroom, except
for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main floor
bathroom. It always worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I
havent used it since. A while back, I wanted to hear it work so I ran
the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never went on. I thought
that maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high
enough to turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me
the sump pump does not work. The pump has two wires coming from the
big round base. It was plugged into the wall by one of the plugs, and
the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that it only
used one outlet. After he left, I decided to put each plug into its
own outlet and it went on. I heard the pump and the water. The
problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear a loud hum
coming from the ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water
being swished around. Does anyone have any idea what it is doing? I
know absolutely nothing about these things. Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony

The plug with the male and female ends on it is hooked to the float switch
in the pit. This is what cycles the pump. The one with the male ends is
hooked directly to the pump. When you plugged them both into individual
outlets, it negated the switch and powered the pump full time. It will never
turn off in this configuration. If it ran for 5 hours, it is possible that
you have done damage to the pump as I am sure it was running dry. It needs
the water in the sump pit to cool the pump. I would check the pump out by
putting water in the pit and see if it pumps it out. You will have to take
the cover off to see. Sounds like maybe the float switch has gone bad. You
may have to get a new float switch. If the pump runs when you plug it in and
pumps water, then it sounds like the switch has gone bad. You will have to
open the pit up and replace it.

R

Sump Pump problem
 

"Tony" wrote in message

A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump is
located in the boiler room
and is there for the toilet, sink and shower in the basement bathroom We
never used that bathroom,
except for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main
floor bathroom. It always
worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I havent used it since. A
while back, I wanted to
hear it work so I ran the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never
went on. I thought that
maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high enough to
turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me the
sump pump does not work.
The pump has two wires coming from the big round base. It was plugged into
the wall by one of the
plugs, and the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that
it only used one outlet.
After he left, I decided to put each plug into its own outlet and it went
on. I heard the pump and
the water. The problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear
a loud hum coming from the
ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water being swished
around. Does anyone have any
idea what it is doing? I know absolutely nothing about these things.
Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony

I'd say bad float switch.

First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?

--
Bobby G.

Sump Pump problem
 

Thanks for the reply. That makes sense. I might have exagerrated a tad about the 5 hours part. It
may have been two hours or so. It sounds like water is swishing around.

Since I have never even looked under that cover, what should I expect? Is it a well full of water?
How far down do you think the float switch is? Is there a way to tell if it is bad? Sorry for all of
the questions but this is all a new frontier to me.

Thanks.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:40:02 -0400, "ROANIN" wrote:



Tony wrote:
A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump
is located in the boiler room and is there for the toilet, sink and
shower in the basement bathroom We never used that bathroom, except
for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main floor
bathroom. It always worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I
havent used it since. A while back, I wanted to hear it work so I ran
the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never went on. I thought
that maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high
enough to turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me
the sump pump does not work. The pump has two wires coming from the
big round base. It was plugged into the wall by one of the plugs, and
the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that it only
used one outlet. After he left, I decided to put each plug into its
own outlet and it went on. I heard the pump and the water. The
problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear a loud hum
coming from the ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water
being swished around. Does anyone have any idea what it is doing? I
know absolutely nothing about these things. Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony

The plug with the male and female ends on it is hooked to the float switch
in the pit. This is what cycles the pump. The one with the male ends is
hooked directly to the pump. When you plugged them both into individual
outlets, it negated the switch and powered the pump full time. It will never
turn off in this configuration. If it ran for 5 hours, it is possible that
you have done damage to the pump as I am sure it was running dry. It needs
the water in the sump pit to cool the pump. I would check the pump out by
putting water in the pit and see if it pumps it out. You will have to take
the cover off to see. Sounds like maybe the float switch has gone bad. You
may have to get a new float switch. If the pump runs when you plug it in and
pumps water, then it sounds like the switch has gone bad. You will have to
open the pit up and replace it.

R

Sump Pump problem
 

As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it. As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat. It eventually went down
to normal on it's own without the pump kicking in. What is under that cover? I'm afraid to look. I
do know that no one crapped in that bowl since 2008 so that shouldnt be in there.

Tony


On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:44:16 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote:

"Tony" wrote in message

A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump is
located in the boiler room
and is there for the toilet, sink and shower in the basement bathroom We
never used that bathroom,
except for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main
floor bathroom. It always
worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I havent used it since. A
while back, I wanted to
hear it work so I ran the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never
went on. I thought that
maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high enough to
turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me the
sump pump does not work.
The pump has two wires coming from the big round base. It was plugged into
the wall by one of the
plugs, and the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that
it only used one outlet.
After he left, I decided to put each plug into its own outlet and it went
on. I heard the pump and
the water. The problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear
a loud hum coming from the
ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water being swished
around. Does anyone have any
idea what it is doing? I know absolutely nothing about these things.
Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony

I'd say bad float switch.

First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?

Sump Pump problem
 

On Jun 16, 12:15*am, Tony wrote:
As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it. As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat.. It eventually went down
to normal on it's own without the pump kicking in. What is under that cover? I'm afraid to look. I
do know that no one crapped in that bowl since 2008 so that shouldnt be in there.

Tony



On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:44:16 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message

A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump is
located in the boiler room
and is there for the toilet, sink and shower in the basement bathroom *We
never used that bathroom,
except for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main
floor bathroom. It always
worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I havent used it since.. A
while back, I wanted to
hear it work so I ran the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never
went on. I thought that
maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high enough to
turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me the
sump pump does not work.
The pump has two wires coming from the big round base. It was plugged into
the wall by one of the
plugs, and the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that
it only used one outlet.
After he left, I decided to put each plug into its own outlet and it went
on. I heard the pump and
the water. The problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear
a loud hum coming from the
ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water being swished
around. Does anyone have any
idea what it is doing? I know absolutely nothing about these things.
Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg

Tony

I'd say bad float switch.

First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. *A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. *Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. *The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. *It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. *When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. *They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. *It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. *You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you CERTAIN the sump your posting about is for sewage?

aroound here many sumps are sealed to keep radon out, and only run
when ranwater infiltrates the homes basement

Sump Pump problem
 

On 6/15/2011 11:22 PM, Tony wrote:
A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump is located in the boiler room
and is there for the toilet, sink and shower in the basement bathroom We never used that bathroom,
except for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main floor bathroom. It always
worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I havent used it since. A while back, I wanted to
hear it work so I ran the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never went on. I thought that
maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high enough to turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me the sump pump does not work.
The pump has two wires coming from the big round base. It was plugged into the wall by one of the
plugs, and the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that it only used one outlet.
After he left, I decided to put each plug into its own outlet and it went on. I heard the pump and
the water. The problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear a loud hum coming from the
ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water being swished around. Does anyone have any
idea what it is doing? I know absolutely nothing about these things. Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony


What you have is a macerator pump. It chops the solids into small bits,
and sucks the mix out. The typical residential pit is around 15"
diameter by 30" deep. Others have explained how the piggy pack float
switch controls the pump. Chances are that the float switch isn't bad,
as sometimes they get hung up on the pipes and other wires in the pit.
If you have to open the pit to free it, you may as well replace it
anyway. There is a seal between the cover and the pit tank. It is there
to keep gasses in the tank, so if you remove the cover, be sure that the
seal remains intact, or replace it. Piggy back float switches are
available at hardware stores and online suppliers.

Sump Pump problem
 

On 6/15/2011 11:22 PM, Tony wrote:
A little background...

I bought my house with a full finished basement in 2004. A sump pump is located in the boiler room
and is there for the toilet, sink and shower in the basement bathroom We never used that bathroom,
except for a few months back in 2008 when we were remodeling the main floor bathroom. It always
worked fine and would kick on when we showered. I havent used it since. A while back, I wanted to
hear it work so I ran the sink, shower, flushed a few times and it never went on. I thought that
maybe the level was so low from non use that it didnt fill high enough to turn itself on.

I am now selling my house and an engineer was here today and told me the sump pump does not work.
The pump has two wires coming from the big round base. It was plugged into the wall by one of the
plugs, and the other plug was connected to the back of that plug so that it only used one outlet.
After he left, I decided to put each plug into its own outlet and it went on. I heard the pump and
the water. The problem is that it never stops, even after 5 hours. I hear a loud hum coming from the
ground and it sounds like a washer machine with water being swished around. Does anyone have any
idea what it is doing? I know absolutely nothing about these things. Thanks.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg


Tony


Since you haven't used the toilet, there won't be anything but water in
the pit, along with wires and pipes. The larger PVC pipe will connect to
the pump at the bottom of the pit. The smaller PVC pipe just goes below
the cover. It is a fresh air vent. This allows air to flow into the pit,
as the pump pulls the water out, without causing a vacuum.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Jun 16, 1:48*am, mm wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:49:20 -0400, Tony
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Jun 16, 12:15*am, Tony wrote:
As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it.

They could conceivably be wrong.

Nothing he's posted suggests that.



As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat.

I forget if that was before or after the hours that the sump pump ran.
Probably before. You should definitely fix the sump pump, or any pump
there. *What's the point of having a broken pump?

I think that's why he posted here, no?




How far below grade is your basement floor. *Or how high are your
basement windows. *My basement floor is 7 feet below grade, but it's
still higher than the sewer near the street. * *The only reason you
would need a waste-water pump is if your sewer is higher than your
toilet, which is rare, even for people with basements. (The people who
planned the sewers knew that the homes would have basements.)

That's just plain wrong. It's very typical for the sewer line to be
higher
than the discharge would be from a basement toilet or shower. Every
home I've owned the sewer line has been 5 feet or more above the
basement floor as has every friends house that I've been in around
here in NJ. I know there are some that are below the basement
floor, but it's most definitely not unusual to find them well above
the
floor and I'd say it's in fact far more common. That's why ejector
pumps are needed.


Otherwise you have a sump pump.


As they said, the pump is running because you bypassed the switch in
the combo male/female thing it had been plugged into.

While they may exist, I've never seen a sump pump that used
that type of dual plug approach.




Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg

I'll admit I've never seen a waste-water pump, but that looks to me
like a sump pump, with a smaller pipe for venting any radon. (Do they
actually have to find radon before putting in those covers now? I'll
bet they do it regardless. *How old is your house.

It looks exactly like an ejector pump, which is what he is
describing. The line with the check valve connects to
the normal house sewer system. The other line is a
vent line that gets vented like any other waste line vent.
Waste water/sewage enters into the side of the holding
tank beneath the concrete floor.




First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. *A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. *Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. *The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. *It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. *When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. *They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. *It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. *You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?- Hide quoted text -

Except for what kind of pump it is, about which I am not certain, I
agree with this whole post.



Are you CERTAIN the sump your posting about is for sewage?

aroound here many sumps are sealed to keep radon out, and only run
when ranwater infiltrates the homes basement

This pump only kicks in when the shower, sink or toilet are used for a while. I never had any rain
or outside water come into this basement. I am on Long Island, NY.

I'm glad you stopped top-posting. *Thanks.

I'm no plumber, but it's conceivable you have a leak in the drain from
the shower, sink, and toilet, and that's why it goes on when you use
them, even though it is a sump pump.

It would have to be one hell of a leak to instantly trigger a sump
pump that has no direct connection to the sink.

He has an ejector pump with a stuck or bad float switch.
Repairing that would be a cheap job, except for the
possibility that he ruined the pump by letting it run for
many hours dry. Why anyone would sit there and let
it do that is beyond me. Given the skill level here and
that a house sale is on the line, it might be time to
call in a plumber.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 05:52:24 -0700 (PDT), " wrote:

On Jun 16, 1:48*am, mm wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:49:20 -0400, Tony
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Jun 16, 12:15*am, Tony wrote:
As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it.

They could conceivably be wrong.

Nothing he's posted suggests that.



As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat.

I forget if that was before or after the hours that the sump pump ran.
Probably before. You should definitely fix the sump pump, or any pump
there. *What's the point of having a broken pump?

I think that's why he posted here, no?




How far below grade is your basement floor. *Or how high are your
basement windows. *My basement floor is 7 feet below grade, but it's
still higher than the sewer near the street. * *The only reason you
would need a waste-water pump is if your sewer is higher than your
toilet, which is rare, even for people with basements. (The people who
planned the sewers knew that the homes would have basements.)

That's just plain wrong. It's very typical for the sewer line to be
higher
than the discharge would be from a basement toilet or shower. Every
home I've owned the sewer line has been 5 feet or more above the
basement floor as has every friends house that I've been in around
here in NJ. I know there are some that are below the basement
floor, but it's most definitely not unusual to find them well above
the
floor and I'd say it's in fact far more common. That's why ejector
pumps are needed.


Otherwise you have a sump pump.


As they said, the pump is running because you bypassed the switch in
the combo male/female thing it had been plugged into.

While they may exist, I've never seen a sump pump that used
that type of dual plug approach.




Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg

I'll admit I've never seen a waste-water pump, but that looks to me
like a sump pump, with a smaller pipe for venting any radon. (Do they
actually have to find radon before putting in those covers now? I'll
bet they do it regardless. *How old is your house.

It looks exactly like an ejector pump, which is what he is
describing. The line with the check valve connects to
the normal house sewer system. The other line is a
vent line that gets vented like any other waste line vent.
Waste water/sewage enters into the side of the holding
tank beneath the concrete floor.




First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. *A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. *Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. *The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. *It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. *When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. *They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. *It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. *You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?- Hide quoted text -

Except for what kind of pump it is, about which I am not certain, I
agree with this whole post.



Are you CERTAIN the sump your posting about is for sewage?

aroound here many sumps are sealed to keep radon out, and only run
when ranwater infiltrates the homes basement

This pump only kicks in when the shower, sink or toilet are used for a while. I never had any rain
or outside water come into this basement. I am on Long Island, NY.

I'm glad you stopped top-posting. *Thanks.

I'm no plumber, but it's conceivable you have a leak in the drain from
the shower, sink, and toilet, and that's why it goes on when you use
them, even though it is a sump pump.

It would have to be one hell of a leak to instantly trigger a sump
pump that has no direct connection to the sink.

He has an ejector pump with a stuck or bad float switch.
Repairing that would be a cheap job, except for the
possibility that he ruined the pump by letting it run for
many hours dry. Why anyone would sit there and let
it do that is beyond me. Given the skill level here and
that a house sale is on the line, it might be time to
call in a plumber.


Here on Long Island, I never saw a sewer line that was below the basement level.It does not even
apply since I am in Suffolk and there are no sewers anywhere near where I live. There are two PVC
pipes. One comes from the bathroom and the other goes out to the line out of the house.

I can do this myself. I just never did this before. I let it run for awhile because I thought it was
emptying out any water that collected over the past 3 years. Usually, it was the sink running or
something but it hasnt triggered in three years. It sounded like it was swishing and doing it's
thing. It just never stopped.

That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony

Sump Pump problem
 

On 6/16/2011 6:57 PM, Tony wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 05:52:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jun 16, 1:48 am, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:49:20 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT), bob wrote:

On Jun 16, 12:15 am, wrote:
As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it.

They could conceivably be wrong.

Nothing he's posted suggests that.



As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat.

I forget if that was before or after the hours that the sump pump ran.
Probably before. You should definitely fix the sump pump, or any pump
there. What's the point of having a broken pump?

I think that's why he posted here, no?




How far below grade is your basement floor. Or how high are your
basement windows. My basement floor is 7 feet below grade, but it's
still higher than the sewer near the street. The only reason you
would need a waste-water pump is if your sewer is higher than your
toilet, which is rare, even for people with basements. (The people who
planned the sewers knew that the homes would have basements.)

That's just plain wrong. It's very typical for the sewer line to be
higher
than the discharge would be from a basement toilet or shower. Every
home I've owned the sewer line has been 5 feet or more above the
basement floor as has every friends house that I've been in around
here in NJ. I know there are some that are below the basement
floor, but it's most definitely not unusual to find them well above
the
floor and I'd say it's in fact far more common. That's why ejector
pumps are needed.


Otherwise you have a sump pump.


As they said, the pump is running because you bypassed the switch in
the combo male/female thing it had been plugged into.

While they may exist, I've never seen a sump pump that used
that type of dual plug approach.




Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg

I'll admit I've never seen a waste-water pump, but that looks to me
like a sump pump, with a smaller pipe for venting any radon. (Do they
actually have to find radon before putting in those covers now? I'll
bet they do it regardless. How old is your house.

It looks exactly like an ejector pump, which is what he is
describing. The line with the check valve connects to
the normal house sewer system. The other line is a
vent line that gets vented like any other waste line vent.
Waste water/sewage enters into the side of the holding
tank beneath the concrete floor.




First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?- Hide quoted text -

Except for what kind of pump it is, about which I am not certain, I
agree with this whole post.



Are you CERTAIN the sump your posting about is for sewage?

aroound here many sumps are sealed to keep radon out, and only run
when ranwater infiltrates the homes basement

This pump only kicks in when the shower, sink or toilet are used for a while. I never had any rain
or outside water come into this basement. I am on Long Island, NY.

I'm glad you stopped top-posting. Thanks.

I'm no plumber, but it's conceivable you have a leak in the drain from
the shower, sink, and toilet, and that's why it goes on when you use
them, even though it is a sump pump.

It would have to be one hell of a leak to instantly trigger a sump
pump that has no direct connection to the sink.

He has an ejector pump with a stuck or bad float switch.
Repairing that would be a cheap job, except for the
possibility that he ruined the pump by letting it run for
many hours dry. Why anyone would sit there and let
it do that is beyond me. Given the skill level here and
that a house sale is on the line, it might be time to
call in a plumber.


Here on Long Island, I never saw a sewer line that was below the basement level.It does not even
apply since I am in Suffolk and there are no sewers anywhere near where I live. There are two PVC
pipes. One comes from the bathroom and the other goes out to the line out of the house.

I can do this myself. I just never did this before. I let it run for awhile because I thought it was
emptying out any water that collected over the past 3 years. Usually, it was the sink running or
something but it hasnt triggered in three years. It sounded like it was swishing and doing it's
thing. It just never stopped.

That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony

The float is that black plastic bulbous thing at the bottom of the pit.
It's cable has to be taped to the PVC pipe, such that it can swing up
and down as the water rises and falls, without getting hung up on anything.

Sump Pump problem
 

On 6/16/2011 6:57 PM, Tony wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 05:52:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jun 16, 1:48 am, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:49:20 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT), bob wrote:

On Jun 16, 12:15 am, wrote:
As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it.

They could conceivably be wrong.

Nothing he's posted suggests that.



As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat.

I forget if that was before or after the hours that the sump pump ran.
Probably before. You should definitely fix the sump pump, or any pump
there. What's the point of having a broken pump?

I think that's why he posted here, no?




How far below grade is your basement floor. Or how high are your
basement windows. My basement floor is 7 feet below grade, but it's
still higher than the sewer near the street. The only reason you
would need a waste-water pump is if your sewer is higher than your
toilet, which is rare, even for people with basements. (The people who
planned the sewers knew that the homes would have basements.)

That's just plain wrong. It's very typical for the sewer line to be
higher
than the discharge would be from a basement toilet or shower. Every
home I've owned the sewer line has been 5 feet or more above the
basement floor as has every friends house that I've been in around
here in NJ. I know there are some that are below the basement
floor, but it's most definitely not unusual to find them well above
the
floor and I'd say it's in fact far more common. That's why ejector
pumps are needed.


Otherwise you have a sump pump.


As they said, the pump is running because you bypassed the switch in
the combo male/female thing it had been plugged into.

While they may exist, I've never seen a sump pump that used
that type of dual plug approach.




Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg

I'll admit I've never seen a waste-water pump, but that looks to me
like a sump pump, with a smaller pipe for venting any radon. (Do they
actually have to find radon before putting in those covers now? I'll
bet they do it regardless. How old is your house.

It looks exactly like an ejector pump, which is what he is
describing. The line with the check valve connects to
the normal house sewer system. The other line is a
vent line that gets vented like any other waste line vent.
Waste water/sewage enters into the side of the holding
tank beneath the concrete floor.




First, it's a waste water pump, not a sump pump, at least as I understand
the terms. A sump is often an open pit that is dug into the floor to pump
out groundwater and floodwater. Your pump does much the same but it's a
closed system because human waste can't sit in an open-to-the-air sump for
obvious reasons. The two wires you see are this:

One powers the pump motor and that's the one you have now (very
erroneously!!!) plugged into the wall outlet for five hours.:

The other wire is to the float switch. It ends in that dual plug/outlet
fitting and the pump plugs into it. When the tank fills, the float switch
closes and allows current to flow into the piggyback outlet to allow the
pump to turn on until the waste is pumped out. They can only work properly
in tandem.

I would guess that the float switch is either frozen by congealed muck or
has leaked and failed. It's actually a pretty cheap fix provided you didn't
burn out the motor by running it dry for so long. You should have noticed
something backing up by now - have you?- Hide quoted text -

Except for what kind of pump it is, about which I am not certain, I
agree with this whole post.



Are you CERTAIN the sump your posting about is for sewage?

aroound here many sumps are sealed to keep radon out, and only run
when ranwater infiltrates the homes basement

This pump only kicks in when the shower, sink or toilet are used for a while. I never had any rain
or outside water come into this basement. I am on Long Island, NY.

I'm glad you stopped top-posting. Thanks.

I'm no plumber, but it's conceivable you have a leak in the drain from
the shower, sink, and toilet, and that's why it goes on when you use
them, even though it is a sump pump.

It would have to be one hell of a leak to instantly trigger a sump
pump that has no direct connection to the sink.

He has an ejector pump with a stuck or bad float switch.
Repairing that would be a cheap job, except for the
possibility that he ruined the pump by letting it run for
many hours dry. Why anyone would sit there and let
it do that is beyond me. Given the skill level here and
that a house sale is on the line, it might be time to
call in a plumber.


Here on Long Island, I never saw a sewer line that was below the basement level.It does not even
apply since I am in Suffolk and there are no sewers anywhere near where I live. There are two PVC
pipes. One comes from the bathroom and the other goes out to the line out of the house.

I can do this myself. I just never did this before. I let it run for awhile because I thought it was
emptying out any water that collected over the past 3 years. Usually, it was the sink running or
something but it hasnt triggered in three years. It sounded like it was swishing and doing it's
thing. It just never stopped.

That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony


Here is a link that shows exactly how the piggy back float switch should
be connected. They also sell these at Home depot:

http://www.pollardwater.com/pdf/pdf_..._09_Manual.pdf

Sump Pump problem
 

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:57:20 -0400, Tony
wrote:



That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony, if you're ambitious, you can do this yourself.
First run some water to bring the level up a bit and plug in the pump
to see if it's still working.
You can clean the sump up a bit by running clean water through it.
You can also use a garden hose to spay things down.
If you loosen the hose clamp on the sleeve under the check valve you
should be able to wiggle it loose.
Connect some line to the overhead first so you can tie off what will
be hanging.
If you see a ring or other tie-off point on the pump, use a line to
haul it up. Otherwise haul the pump out with the PVC pipe.
The PVC pipe screws out of the pump.
Get plenty of rags on the floor first.
If you can ID the pump with a plate, get a replacement at the plumbing
store. Shop around for price.
Otherwise you can take it to a plumbing supply store and get a
replacement. Just clean it enough for basic decency, then wrap it in
rags well. The sludge on it is full of rust and will stain forever
whatever it touches.
I have what looks to be a similar pump in a deeper sump, but my sump
is for ground water and foundation tiles.
On mine the level switch is that bump on the side of the pump, with
the same electric cable set-up. There's a rubber membrane over it, no
float. You will see the float if you have that setup.
My switch failed and I didn't see a way to fix it.
I left it in there on a Y (but upside down) and put a new pump on the
other leg of the Y, both with check valves.
When we get the 100 year rains, every 5 years or so, I can plug the
old pump in with the pump cord. But that's unrelated to your deal.
I don't know what the pump head difference is between a "macerator"
and regular sump pump, so make sure you're getting the right pump.
If you DIY, then the main thing to watch out for pump height, so the
existing PVC still fits. Be ready to get a longer piece, or cut the
old one.
You also may find the pump is sitting on bricks or a cinder block.
That provides some height adjustment and keeps the pump intake
off the bottom.
Another option is just get it priced by a plumber.
Up to you.

--Vic

Sump Pump problem
 

On Jun 16, 8:51*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:57:20 -0400, Tony
wrote:



That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony, if you're ambitious, you can do this yourself.
First run some water to bring the level up a bit and plug in the pump
to see if it's still working.
You can clean the sump up a bit by running clean water through it.
You can also use a garden hose to spay things down.
If you loosen the hose clamp on the sleeve under the check valve you
should be able to wiggle it loose.
Connect some line to the overhead first so you can tie off what will
be hanging.
If you see a ring or other tie-off point on the pump, use a line to
haul it up. *Otherwise haul the pump out with the PVC pipe.
The PVC pipe screws out of the pump.
Get plenty of rags on the floor first.
If you can ID the pump with a plate, get a replacement at the plumbing
store. *Shop around for price.
Otherwise you can take it to a plumbing supply store and get a
replacement. * Just clean it enough for basic decency, then wrap it in
rags well. *The sludge on it is full of rust and will stain forever
whatever it touches.
I have what looks to be a similar pump in a deeper sump, but my sump
is for ground water and foundation tiles. * *
On mine the level switch is that bump on the side of the pump, with
the same electric cable set-up. *There's a rubber membrane over it, no
float. *You will see the float if you have that setup.
My switch failed and I didn't see a way to fix it.
I left it in there on a Y (but upside down) and put a new pump on the
other leg of the Y, both with check valves.
When we get the 100 year rains, every 5 years or so, I can plug the
old pump in with the pump cord. *But that's unrelated to your deal.
I don't know what the pump head difference is between a "macerator"
and regular sump pump, so make sure you're getting the right pump.
If you DIY, then the main thing to watch out for pump height, so the
existing PVC still fits. *Be ready to get a longer piece, or cut the
old one.
You also may find the pump is sitting on bricks or a cinder block.
That provides some height adjustment and keeps the pump intake
off the bottom.
Another option is just get it priced by a plumber.
Up to you.

--Vic *

Given the experience and skill set so far, I'd recommend calling
a plumber. If he can't indentify the float, as a buyer I wouldn't
want him fooling around with AC in the house I'm buying. Also,
give what the pump looks like, I'd say replacing the whole thing
is in order.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 05:52:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 16, 1:48*am, mm wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:49:20 -0400, Tony
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Jun 16, 12:15*am, Tony wrote:
As I said, we do not use this bathroom. It is only an issue because we are selling the house. I
immediately unplugged the unit after I got another response. I told the other poster that I may have
exaggerated and only really had it plugged in for two hours. I guess I still could have caused more
damage but I wont know until I pull that top off. The engineer called it a sump pump and so has
everyone else whoever saw it.

They could conceivably be wrong.

Nothing he's posted suggests that.

Something must have, because you concluded they *were* wrong. The
engineer and everyone else who saw it called it a sump pump and you
say it's an ejector pump.

As far as backing up, the engineer told me to fix the sump pump
because he flushed the toilet so many times, it was up at the rim of seat.

I forget if that was before or after the hours that the sump pump ran.
Probably before. You should definitely fix the sump pump, or any pump
there. *What's the point of having a broken pump?

I think that's why he posted here, no?

Yes, but some people waver.

How far below grade is your basement floor. *Or how high are your
basement windows. *My basement floor is 7 feet below grade, but it's
still higher than the sewer near the street. * *The only reason you
would need a waste-water pump is if your sewer is higher than your
toilet, which is rare, even for people with basements. (The people who
planned the sewers knew that the homes would have basements.)

That's just plain wrong. It's very typical for the sewer line to be
higher
than the discharge would be from a basement toilet or shower. Every

I stand corrected. Thanks.

home I've owned the sewer line has been 5 feet or more above the
basement floor as has every friends house that I've been in around
here in NJ. I know there are some that are below the basement
floor, but it's most definitely not unusual to find them well above
the
floor and I'd say it's in fact far more common. That's why ejector
pumps are needed.


Otherwise you have a sump pump.


As they said, the pump is running because you bypassed the switch in
the combo male/female thing it had been plugged into.

While they may exist, I've never seen a sump pump that used
that type of dual plug approach.

Me neither, but I've seen only a few models.

Here is a link to a picture in case that helps:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...11783/pump.jpg

I'll admit I've never seen a waste-water pump, but that looks to me
like a sump pump, with a smaller pipe for venting any radon. (Do they
actually have to find radon before putting in those covers now? I'll
bet they do it regardless. *How old is your house.

It looks exactly like an ejector pump, which is what he is
describing. The line with the check valve connects to
the normal house sewer system. The other line is a
vent line that gets vented like any other waste line vent.
Waste water/sewage enters into the side of the holding
tank beneath the concrete floor.

Except for what kind of pump it is, about which I am not certain,

I said I wasn't certain.


This pump only kicks in when the shower, sink or toilet are used for a while. I never had any rain
or outside water come into this basement. I am on Long Island, NY.

I'm no plumber, but it's conceivable you have a leak in the drain from
the shower, sink, and toilet, and that's why it goes on when you use
them, even though it is a sump pump.

It would have to be one hell of a leak to instantly trigger a sump
pump that has no direct connection to the sink.

He didn't say "instantly". He said "when [they] are used for a
while". If the water table is just below the level at which the
pump goes on, a leak could do it. The picture doesn't show how far
the pump is from the bathroom.

Sump Pump problem
 

Tony wrote:

Here on Long Island, I never saw a sewer line that was below the
basement level.It does not even apply since I am in Suffolk and there
are no sewers anywhere near where I live. There are two PVC pipes.
One comes from the bathroom and the other goes out to the line out of
the house.

I can do this myself. I just never did this before. I let it run for
awhile because I thought it was emptying out any water that collected
over the past 3 years. Usually, it was the sink running or something
but it hasnt triggered in three years. It sounded like it was
swishing and doing it's thing. It just never stopped.

That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am
looking at. Please look at this pic and tell me where the float
switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony

The float switch is the thing on the right in the picture that you posted.

As someone else suggested, with the pit open as you have it now, you could
run water in the sink and watch the pit fill up. As the water level gets to
the float and keeps getting higher you should see the float rising up. It
should rise up easily because it is supposed to "float" on top of the water.
It does it in a way that is similar to the ball float that is often seen in
toilet tanks.

When the float rises enough, it is supposed to automatically close a switch
inside the float switch mechanism and that switch causes power to go to the
pump. After the pump pumps out some of the liquid, the water level lowers
and the float goes down, and the switch switches to "off" and the power to
the pump goes off.

If the float doesn't rise when the pit fills up, it can either be because:
1) the float is stuck on something; or, 2) it can be that the float has a
hole in it and it no longer "floats" -- meaning that the float itself is
bad.

If the float does rise easily like it is supposed to, but it doesn't turn
the power on to the pump, it means the switch is bad. In other words, the
float floats, but the switch doesn't work.

You can start this test with nothing plugged in if you want. In that case,
you would just be watching to see if the float is floating the way it is
supposed to as the water rises.

If that part works, you can try plugging in the cords. If the float floats
and you plug the plugs in correctly as others have described, the pump
should pump. If it doesn't (and the float did float), the switch is bad.
In that case, you can temporarily plug the pump cord directly into an outlet
to let the pump pump out the water in the pit -- then unplug it so it
doesn't keep running.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 19:51:53 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:57:20 -0400, Tony
wrote:



That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony, if you're ambitious, you can do this yourself.
First run some water to bring the level up a bit and plug in the pump
to see if it's still working.
You can clean the sump up a bit by running clean water through it.
You can also use a garden hose to spay things down.
If you loosen the hose clamp on the sleeve under the check valve you
should be able to wiggle it loose.
Connect some line to the overhead first so you can tie off what will
be hanging.
If you see a ring or other tie-off point on the pump, use a line to
haul it up. Otherwise haul the pump out with the PVC pipe.
The PVC pipe screws out of the pump.
Get plenty of rags on the floor first.
If you can ID the pump with a plate, get a replacement at the plumbing
store. Shop around for price.
Otherwise you can take it to a plumbing supply store and get a
replacement. Just clean it enough for basic decency, then wrap it in
rags well. The sludge on it is full of rust and will stain forever
whatever it touches.
I have what looks to be a similar pump in a deeper sump, but my sump
is for ground water and foundation tiles.
On mine the level switch is that bump on the side of the pump, with
the same electric cable set-up. There's a rubber membrane over it, no
float. You will see the float if you have that setup.
My switch failed and I didn't see a way to fix it.
I left it in there on a Y (but upside down) and put a new pump on the
other leg of the Y, both with check valves.
When we get the 100 year rains, every 5 years or so, I can plug the
old pump in with the pump cord. But that's unrelated to your deal.
I don't know what the pump head difference is between a "macerator"
and regular sump pump, so make sure you're getting the right pump.
If you DIY, then the main thing to watch out for pump height, so the
existing PVC still fits. Be ready to get a longer piece, or cut the
old one.
You also may find the pump is sitting on bricks or a cinder block.
That provides some height adjustment and keeps the pump intake
off the bottom.
Another option is just get it priced by a plumber.
Up to you.

--Vic





OK. Here is the story. I put a few buckets of water into the "well" until the float raised up a few
inches (it looked like the float in my toilet tank). I plugged the piggyback plugs into the wall and
NOTHING. I then plugged the pump directly and I watched it shoot the water out up into the pipes.
So, I think I can conclude that the pump does work and it is the level switch like so many of you
suggested. Thank goodness I didnt damage the pump. The question is, where the heck is this switch? I
have no idea what I am looking at. I am so close to fixing this. I really appreciate the help guys.

Tony

Sump Pump problem
 

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:41:32 -0400, Tony
wrote:



OK. Here is the story. I put a few buckets of water into the "well" until the float raised up a few
inches (it looked like the float in my toilet tank). I plugged the piggyback plugs into the wall and
NOTHING. I then plugged the pump directly and I watched it shoot the water out up into the pipes.
So, I think I can conclude that the pump does work and it is the level switch like so many of you
suggested. Thank goodness I didnt damage the pump. The question is, where the heck is this switch? I
have no idea what I am looking at. I am so close to fixing this. I really appreciate the help guys.


Just to keep it real, you ain't even close.
I don't know anything about these float switches.
As I said, I just bought a new pump with the membrane type pressure
switch, and kept the old pump in there as a manually plugged in
backup.
Maybe somebody here can guide you further.

--Vic

Sump Pump problem
 

On 6/17/2011 6:41 PM, Tony wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 19:51:53 -0500, Vic wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:57:20 -0400,
wrote:



That said, I removed the top cover and I dont really know what I am looking at. Please look at this
pic and tell me where the float switch is. That would help a great deal.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...1783/pump2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...783/pump-1.jpg

Thanks again.

Tony, if you're ambitious, you can do this yourself.
First run some water to bring the level up a bit and plug in the pump
to see if it's still working.
You can clean the sump up a bit by running clean water through it.
You can also use a garden hose to spay things down.
If you loosen the hose clamp on the sleeve under the check valve you
should be able to wiggle it loose.
Connect some line to the overhead first so you can tie off what will
be hanging.
If you see a ring or other tie-off point on the pump, use a line to
haul it up. Otherwise haul the pump out with the PVC pipe.
The PVC pipe screws out of the pump.
Get plenty of rags on the floor first.
If you can ID the pump with a plate, get a replacement at the plumbing
store. Shop around for price.
Otherwise you can take it to a plumbing supply store and get a
replacement. Just clean it enough for basic decency, then wrap it in
rags well. The sludge on it is full of rust and will stain forever
whatever it touches.
I have what looks to be a similar pump in a deeper sump, but my sump
is for ground water and foundation tiles.
On mine the level switch is that bump on the side of the pump, with
the same electric cable set-up. There's a rubber membrane over it, no
float. You will see the float if you have that setup.
My switch failed and I didn't see a way to fix it.
I left it in there on a Y (but upside down) and put a new pump on the
other leg of the Y, both with check valves.
When we get the 100 year rains, every 5 years or so, I can plug the
old pump in with the pump cord. But that's unrelated to your deal.
I don't know what the pump head difference is between a "macerator"
and regular sump pump, so make sure you're getting the right pump.
If you DIY, then the main thing to watch out for pump height, so the
existing PVC still fits. Be ready to get a longer piece, or cut the
old one.
You also may find the pump is sitting on bricks or a cinder block.
That provides some height adjustment and keeps the pump intake
off the bottom.
Another option is just get it priced by a plumber.
Up to you.

--Vic





OK. Here is the story. I put a few buckets of water into the "well" until the float raised up a few
inches (it looked like the float in my toilet tank). I plugged the piggyback plugs into the wall and
NOTHING. I then plugged the pump directly and I watched it shoot the water out up into the pipes.
So, I think I can conclude that the pump does work and it is the level switch like so many of you
suggested. Thank goodness I didnt damage the pump. The question is, where the heck is this switch? I
have no idea what I am looking at. I am so close to fixing this. I really appreciate the help guys.

Tony


The switch is inside the float. You don't replace the switch, you
replace the entire assembly. For the switch to operate, it's cord needs
to be attached to the pump pipe. Floating doesn't close the switch, it
has to be turned upright. If you buy a new piggy back float switch, you
can plug a lamp into it, then move it upside down and right side up, to
see how it operates. Then it should be clear, how it has to be attached
in the pit

Sump Pump problem
 

"Tony" wrote in message
...

OK. Here is the story. I put a few buckets of water into the "well" until
the float raised up a few
inches (it looked like the float in my toilet tank). I plugged the
piggyback plugs into the wall and
NOTHING. I then plugged the pump directly and I watched it shoot the water
out up into the pipes.
So, I think I can conclude that the pump does work and it is the level
switch like so many of you
suggested. Thank goodness I didnt damage the pump. The question is, where
the heck is this switch? I
have no idea what I am looking at. I am so close to fixing this. I really
appreciate the help guys.

Tony

Here's a link about the types of sump pump switches:

http://www.sump-pump-info.com/float-switches.html .

Yours appears to be type "3", a tethered float switch. The actual switch
mechanism is located inside the float.

Here's a link to one you can buy at Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/plumbin...tch-41743.html .

My guess is that since you are planning on selling your house, all you need
to do is buy one of these and use it to replace the bad switch that you have
now.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:41:32 -0400, Tony
wrote:

OK. Here is the story. I put a few buckets of water into the "well" until the float raised up a few
inches

I"m not sure how many inches is a few or if it went high enough.

RBM says it has to be turned upright.

Maybe put on a rubber glove and lift it as high as it goes. You don't
even need more water. If it ran for two hours empty it can run for 5
seconds more. (Well, the two aren't really related.)

Could anything in the way, that needn't be there, have been stopping
it from going that high in your previous test. That's probably the
only other thing it could be now, besides a bad switch.

41 dollars is not much, but maybe it will hard to get the old swtich
off, rusted??

(it looked like the float in my toilet tank). I plugged the piggyback plugs into the wall and
NOTHING. I then plugged the pump directly and I watched it shoot the water out up into the pipes.
So, I think I can conclude that the pump does work and it is the level switch like so many of you
suggested. Thank goodness I didnt damage the pump. The question is, where the heck is this switch? I
have no idea what I am looking at. I am so close to fixing this.

Yes you are, either away.

I really appreciate the help guys.

Tony

Sump Pump problem
 

wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 8:46 pm, "RogerT" wrote:

What makes you think the sewer line could be clogged. He clearly
says the ejector pump:

A - runs and empties out the pit when plugged in directly

B - doesn't turn on at all when plugged in using the float/level
sensing switch.

+++++++++

By "sewer line", I meant the sewer line between the toilet-and-sink and the
pit. I wrote that because the OP wrote,

I was about to send this when I tried something. I put the shower on for
10 minutes. It seems to
drain directly into the tank and not through the pipe that comes from
the
toilet\sink. When it
filled high enough, the pump turned on as it should. Is it possible that
the level was just not high
enough when the engineer tested it? If so, then why did he say that the
toilet was full to the top
and not to flush it because the pump never tripped? This is weird.

When he wrote that, it made me think that the inspector turned on the water
in the sink and/or flushed the toilet and the toilet backed up without the
ejector pump coming on. So, the inspector assumed that the ejector pump (in
the closed pit) wasn't working. But it may have just been that the water in
the sink and/or toilet wasn't even getting into the pit due to the clogged
line. Had the inspector run the shower for long enough, my guess is that
the pump would have come on and the toilet would not have backed up.

And, earlier, the OP apparently had not let the pit fill up enough (he was
only using buckets of water) to know if the switch and pump were working
properly. Later, with the pit open, when he ran the shower, the pit filled
up to a high enough level for the pump to automatically come on. So,
everything was working correctly when hooked up correctly and when the
shower was allowed to run.

My guess is: 1) the switch works (with enough water in the pit); 2) the pump
works (which we already knew); and, 3) there is a clog in the line which
prevents water from the sink and/or toilet going into the pit.

Clear out the clog and I'll bet the whole thing will work fine.

As far as the OP's skills are concerned, he seems to be figuring it out step
by step. He took the top off, took pictures and posted them, and did
various tests. It looked at first that it was the switch that was bad, but
he may not have known how high the water level has to go before the switch
activates the pump. Now that he has tried letting enough water go in (from
the shower), the switch and pump appear to be working correctly. I think he
is close to having this solved.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Jun 18, 8:00*am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jun 17, 8:46 pm, "RogerT" wrote:

What makes you think the sewer line could be clogged. *He clearly
says the ejector pump:

A - runs and empties out the pit when plugged in directly

B - doesn't turn on at all when plugged in using the float/level
sensing switch.

+++++++++

By "sewer line", I meant the sewer line between the toilet-and-sink and the
pit. *I wrote that because the OP wrote,

I was about to send this when I tried something. I put the shower on for
10 minutes. It seems to
drain directly into the tank and not through the pipe that comes from
the
toilet\sink. When it
filled high enough, the pump turned on as it should. Is it possible that
the level was just not high
enough when the engineer tested it? If so, then why did he say that the
toilet was full to the top
and not to flush it because the pump never tripped? This is weird.

When he wrote that, it made me think that the inspector turned on the water
in the sink and/or flushed the toilet and the toilet backed up without the
ejector pump coming on. *So, the inspector assumed that the ejector pump (in
the closed pit) wasn't working. *But it may have just been that the water in
the sink and/or toilet wasn't even getting into the pit due to the clogged
line. *Had the inspector run the shower for long enough, my guess is that
the pump would have come on and the toilet would not have backed up.

And, earlier, the OP apparently had not let the pit fill up enough (he was
only using buckets of water) to know if the switch and pump were working
properly. *Later, with the pit open, when he ran the shower, the pit filled
up to a high enough level for the pump to automatically come on. *So,
everything was working correctly when hooked up correctly and when the
shower was allowed to run.

I missed that part of the story.





My guess is: 1) the switch works (with enough water in the pit); 2) the pump
works (which we already knew); and, 3) there is a clog in the line which
prevents water from the sink and/or toilet going into the pit.

Clear out the clog and I'll bet the whole thing will work fine.

Yes, I agree now. That's a definite possibility.



As far as the OP's skills are concerned, he seems to be figuring it out step
by step. *He took the top off, took pictures and posted them, and did
various tests. *It looked at first that it was the switch that was bad, but
he may not have known how high the water level has to go before the switch
activates the pump. *Now that he has tried letting enough water go in (from
the shower), the switch and pump appear to be working correctly. *I think he
is close to having this solved.

This has been total amature hour from the start and he hasn't been
capable of figuring anything out, only attempting to follow directions
by remote control, with no evidence of even the most basic repair
skills.
But maybe he will wind up fixing it. Or screwing it up worse. We'll
see.

Sump Pump problem
 

wrote:
On Jun 18, 8:00 am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote in message
Clear out the clog and I'll bet the whole thing will work fine.

Yes, I agree now. That's a definite possibility.

.....,
This has been total amature hour from the start and he hasn't been
capable of figuring anything out, only attempting to follow directions
by remote control, with no evidence of even the most basic repair
skills.
But maybe he will wind up fixing it. Or screwing it up worse. We'll
see.

I have a completely different take on this. From my perspective, the OP is
an intelligent person who posted a practical question, and then (unlike many
who post here) he followed up with more posts, more photos, etc. He took in
what people were suggesting, he tried some of the ideas people offered and
he did some experimenting on his own. In the end, he may have solved the
problem, and along the way he (and some of us) learned some things that we
may not have known before. All in all, a good couple of days.

I actually have a basement level bathroom that I am redoing and I have been
researching my options for a while now. One of my options has been to
install a macerating ejector pump in a pit similar to what the OP now has.
Another option is to use one of the Saniflo ( http://www.saniflo.com )
surface-mounted upflush systems. So, while deciding, it actually helped me
to see the photos the OP posted of his system in both the open and closed
states. And, while looking up info about the types of switches, I got to
learn more about the different types, which are the most reliable, which
cost the most and least, etc. In part, that is why I am here -- both to
pass on any information that I may know that may be helpful and also to get
more information and learn more. We all start somewhere, and all of us know
some things and don't know other things.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Jun 18, 10:56*am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 18, 8:00 am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote in message
Clear out the clog and I'll bet the whole thing will work fine.

Yes, I agree now. *That's a definite possibility.

.....,
This has been total amature hour from the start and he hasn't been
capable of figuring anything out, only attempting to follow directions
by remote control, with no evidence of even the most basic repair
skills.
But maybe he will wind up fixing it. *Or screwing it up worse. *We'll
see.

I have a completely different take on this. *From my perspective, the OP is
an intelligent person who posted a practical question, and then (unlike many
who post here) he followed up with more posts, more photos, etc.

In the beginning he said he bypassed the float switch because he
was screwing around and didn't know
what he was doing, which started the pump up and he then let
it run dry for 4 hours. Many post and days later he;s still incapable
of
figuring out if the float switch does or does not work correctly.
All that takes is watching the tank that's sitting there with
the cover off fill with water from the sink.

I'm all in favor of people with some basic skills and sense doing
their own work. In this case, the added factor is that it involves
a home sale contigency inspection. I think the buyer is entitled
to have the system checked and fixed by someone with the
appropriate skills. They deserve to have it fixed right.

If it were you or many of the other posters here, I'd say
we could DIY. In the process, we could see what was going on
and might see other things that need to be corrected.

How about this scenario. He does whatever he does. The
buyer closes on the property and 2 weeks later, there is
bathroom waste and water all over the basement floor,
damaging personal property that he had there. Now the buyer
wants $5000 in damages to cover the cost of the lost
goods, drying out the basement, and having a plumber
fix the ejection system. IMO, the buyer would likely have
a compelling case.



*//He took in
what people were suggesting, he tried some of the ideas people offered and
he did some experimenting on his own. *In the end, he may have solved the
problem, and along the way he (and some of us) learned some things that we
may not have known before. *All in all, a good couple of days.

I actually have a basement level bathroom that I am redoing and I have been
researching my options for a while now. *One of my options has been to
install a macerating ejector pump in a pit similar to what the OP now has..
Another option is to use one of the Saniflo (http://www.saniflo.com)
surface-mounted upflush systems. *So, while deciding, it actually helped me
to see the photos the OP posted of his system in both the open and closed
states. *And, while looking up info about the types of switches, I got to
learn more about the different types, which are the most reliable, which
cost the most and least, etc. *In part, that is why I am here -- both to
pass on any information that I may know that may be helpful and also to get
more information and learn more. *We all start somewhere, and all of us know
some things and don't know other things.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:18:29 -0700 (PDT), " wrote:

On Jun 18, 10:56*am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 18, 8:00 am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote in message
Clear out the clog and I'll bet the whole thing will work fine.

Yes, I agree now. *That's a definite possibility.

.....,
This has been total amature hour from the start and he hasn't been
capable of figuring anything out, only attempting to follow directions
by remote control, with no evidence of even the most basic repair
skills.
But maybe he will wind up fixing it. *Or screwing it up worse. *We'll
see.

I have a completely different take on this. *From my perspective, the OP is
an intelligent person who posted a practical question, and then (unlike many
who post here) he followed up with more posts, more photos, etc.

In the beginning he said he bypassed the float switch because he
was screwing around and didn't know
what he was doing, which started the pump up and he then let
it run dry for 4 hours. Many post and days later he;s still incapable
of
figuring out if the float switch does or does not work correctly.
All that takes is watching the tank that's sitting there with
the cover off fill with water from the sink.

I'm all in favor of people with some basic skills and sense doing
their own work. In this case, the added factor is that it involves
a home sale contigency inspection. I think the buyer is entitled
to have the system checked and fixed by someone with the
appropriate skills. They deserve to have it fixed right.

If it were you or many of the other posters here, I'd say
we could DIY. In the process, we could see what was going on
and might see other things that need to be corrected.

How about this scenario. He does whatever he does. The
buyer closes on the property and 2 weeks later, there is
bathroom waste and water all over the basement floor,
damaging personal property that he had there. Now the buyer
wants $5000 in damages to cover the cost of the lost
goods, drying out the basement, and having a plumber
fix the ejection system. IMO, the buyer would likely have
a compelling case.



*//He took in
what people were suggesting, he tried some of the ideas people offered and
he did some experimenting on his own. *In the end, he may have solved the
problem, and along the way he (and some of us) learned some things that we
may not have known before. *All in all, a good couple of days.

I actually have a basement level bathroom that I am redoing and I have been
researching my options for a while now. *One of my options has been to
install a macerating ejector pump in a pit similar to what the OP now has.
Another option is to use one of the Saniflo (http://www.saniflo.com)
surface-mounted upflush systems. *So, while deciding, it actually helped me
to see the photos the OP posted of his system in both the open and closed
states. *And, while looking up info about the types of switches, I got to
learn more about the different types, which are the most reliable, which
cost the most and least, etc. *In part, that is why I am here -- both to
pass on any information that I may know that may be helpful and also to get
more information and learn more. *We all start somewhere, and all of us know
some things and don't know other things.

Hate to break it to you but I am very intelligent. I just never looked at a pump like this before in
my life. Do you think a doctor or Einstien would just figure it out? I doubt it. Show me once, I can
do it. I just did not know what to expect. The problem was the pump never kicked in. That seems to
be because the level of water was never high enough. That was my thought from the beginning. I had
to open the top to see the level of the water. I had to also disconnect the pvc pipe from the sink
in the bathroom to be able to do that because there was no play in the pipe to allow me to pull the
top off. With the PVG pipe from the bathroom off, I did not want to flush or run the sink because
the pipe was disconnected. That is why I used the buckets of water. Then, I realized that the
shower directly ran into the tank and that I could run it to fill the tank.

It turns out that my original observation was correct. I just had no idea about piggy backing the
plugs had to be done. Now I know.

As for spending $41 to fix it, my house is a short sale. I have lived here for 7 years, have paid
$3000/mo on time all the way through until now. The house is selling for $260,000 and I still owe
$311,000 after the bank received over $181,000 from me in P&I the past 7 years. So, since I am
walking away without one cent, I am no putting one cent into it. It just isnt worth it. The pump
wasnt holding up the sale of the house. I was just doing it out of courtesty. With a short sale, you
dont come back and negotiate after an inspection. The house is already priced to sell.

And I wrote earlier that there are no sewers anywhere near me. I have a cesspool.

Thanks to every who had the patience and confidence in me to help.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:42:05 -0400, Tony
wrote:



Hate to break it to you but I am very intelligent. I just never looked at a pump like this before in
my life. Do you think a doctor or Einstien would just figure it out? I doubt it. Show me once, I can
do it. I just did not know what to expect. The problem was the pump never kicked in. That seems to
be because the level of water was never high enough. That was my thought from the beginning. I had
to open the top to see the level of the water. I had to also disconnect the pvc pipe from the sink
in the bathroom to be able to do that because there was no play in the pipe to allow me to pull the
top off. With the PVG pipe from the bathroom off, I did not want to flush or run the sink because
the pipe was disconnected. That is why I used the buckets of water. Then, I realized that the
shower directly ran into the tank and that I could run it to fill the tank.

It turns out that my original observation was correct. I just had no idea about piggy backing the
plugs had to be done. Now I know.

As for spending $41 to fix it, my house is a short sale. I have lived here for 7 years, have paid
$3000/mo on time all the way through until now. The house is selling for $260,000 and I still owe
$311,000 after the bank received over $181,000 from me in P&I the past 7 years. So, since I am
walking away without one cent, I am no putting one cent into it. It just isnt worth it. The pump
wasnt holding up the sale of the house. I was just doing it out of courtesty. With a short sale, you
dont come back and negotiate after an inspection. The house is already priced to sell.

And I wrote earlier that there are no sewers anywhere near me. I have a cesspool.

Thanks to every who had the patience and confidence in me to help.

No sweat Tony,
I was boilerman in the Navy working on high pressure steam/water
piping, did plumbing work in the steel mills, replumbed all the
supplies in my first house, and made money working with a plumber
doing apartment building rehabs, including deep sewer tiles.
Then I moved to this house in the suburbs.
There's a pedestal pump on a steel tank in the basement floor.
Big 2" copper pipe running into the floor by the tank and running
around the corner and along the wall to T in the vent pipe by the
laundry tub.
An even bigger 3" copper pipe coming from the floor by the tank, going
up high, then looping back to a sewer stub stickling though the wall.
Pump goes on when we run water or flush the toilet.
This is right next to a regular sump with sub pump.
Besides that I had the familiar catch basin in back, and know how
sewer systems are set up around here.
But I couldn't figure out this system because I never saw it before.
What I did was call a local plumber I found in the phone book.
Asked him how much he wanted an hour to just come out and tell me what
I had. $70. He was surprised and hesitated a bit when I told him to
get over here. Maybe thought it was a stickup.
Anyway, he had seen these before, but not set up like mine so it took
him a little while to get it down and explain every piece to me.
Maybe 45 minutes including running water from various sources and
looking in the catch basin.
We spent about 3 more hours bulls hitting, so his hourly rate really
suffered.
I knew you could do this as soon as I saw you could take the lid off
and operate a camera.
No rocket science, all desire.
But when nearly all the mechanics are hidden, it's best to have it
explained.
If you actually had to pull the pump you could run into various snags,
so it's good the float switch is working.
Good luck on the house.
Sounds like a good reason to walk away from a mortgage, but you have
your own reasons.

--Vic

Sump Pump problem
 

On Jun 18, 3:42*pm, Tony wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:18:29 -0700 (PDT), " wrote:
On Jun 18, 10:56 am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 18, 8:00 am, "RogerT" wrote:
wrote in message
Clear out the clog and I'll bet the whole thing will work fine.

Yes, I agree now. That's a definite possibility.

.....,
This has been total amature hour from the start and he hasn't been
capable of figuring anything out, only attempting to follow directions
by remote control, with no evidence of even the most basic repair
skills.
But maybe he will wind up fixing it. Or screwing it up worse. We'll
see.

I have a completely different take on this. From my perspective, the OP is
an intelligent person who posted a practical question, and then (unlike many
who post here) he followed up with more posts, more photos, etc.

In the beginning he said he bypassed the float switch because he
was screwing around and didn't know
what he was doing, which started the pump up and he then let
it run dry for 4 hours. *Many post and days later he;s still incapable
of
figuring out if the float switch does or does not work correctly.
All that takes is watching the tank that's sitting there with
the cover off fill with water from the sink.

I'm all in favor of people with some basic skills and sense doing
their own work. In this case, the added factor is that it involves
a home sale contigency inspection. *I think the buyer is entitled
to have the system checked and fixed by someone with the
appropriate skills. *They deserve to have it fixed right.

If it were you or many of the other posters here, *I'd say
we could DIY. In the process, we could see what was going on
and might see other things that need to be corrected.

How about this scenario. *He does whatever he does. *The
buyer closes on the property and 2 weeks later, there is
bathroom waste and water all over the basement floor,
damaging personal property that he had there. *Now the buyer
wants $5000 in damages to cover the cost of the lost
goods, drying out the basement, and having a plumber
fix the ejection system. *IMO, the buyer would likely have
a compelling case.

//He took in
what people were suggesting, he tried some of the ideas people offered and
he did some experimenting on his own. In the end, he may have solved the
problem, and along the way he (and some of us) learned some things that we
may not have known before. All in all, a good couple of days.

I actually have a basement level bathroom that I am redoing and I have been
researching my options for a while now. One of my options has been to
install a macerating ejector pump in a pit similar to what the OP now has.
Another option is to use one of the Saniflo (http://www.saniflo.com)
surface-mounted upflush systems. So, while deciding, it actually helped me
to see the photos the OP posted of his system in both the open and closed
states. And, while looking up info about the types of switches, I got to
learn more about the different types, which are the most reliable, which
cost the most and least, etc. In part, that is why I am here -- both to
pass on any information that I may know that may be helpful and also to get
more information and learn more. We all start somewhere, and all of us know
some things and don't know other things.

Hate to break it to you but I am very intelligent. I just never looked at a pump like this before in
my life. Do you think a doctor or Einstien would just figure it out? I doubt it. Show me once, I can
do it. I just did not know what to expect. The problem was the pump never kicked in. That seems to
be because the level of water was never high enough. That was my thought from the beginning. I had
to open the top to see the level of the water. I had to also disconnect the pvc pipe from the sink
in the bathroom to be able to do that because there was no play in the pipe to allow me to pull the
top off. With the PVG pipe from the bathroom off, I did not want to flush or run the sink because
the pipe was disconnected. That is why I used the buckets of water. *Then, I realized that the
shower directly ran into the tank and that I could run it to fill the tank.

Maybe I just approach things differently than an intelligent person.
But if an inspector called out
the pump system for the basement sink, shower and toilet as not
working, the first thing I'd do is go turn on the sink and let it run
and
watch if the water continued going down and the pump turned on.
Either the water has to back up at some point, start running out
from the ejection pump tank, or get pumped out. Then I'd
do the same with the shower. If both of those work, then I'd flush
the toilet. In other words,
I'd have simply checked whether if worked or not myself.

Instead, you started fooling around with unplugging two
cords to the pump that you didn't understand.


It turns out that my original observation was correct. I just had no idea about piggy backing the
plugs had to be done. Now I know.

Not sure which observation that was. But if what you're saying
now is that it all works and there was no problem, then
obviously the inspector is an imbecile. I think we all
would agree with that.




As for spending $41 to fix it, my house is a short sale. I have lived here for 7 years, have paid
$3000/mo on time all the way through until now. The house is selling for $260,000 and I still owe
$311,000 after the bank received over $181,000 from me in P&I the past 7 years. So, since I am
walking away without one cent, *I am no putting one cent into it. It just isnt worth it. The pump
wasnt holding up the sale of the house. I was just doing it out of courtesty. With a short sale, you
dont come back and negotiate after an inspection. The house is already priced to sell.

And I wrote earlier that there are no sewers anywhere near me. I have a cesspool.

Thanks to every who had the patience and confidence in me to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry to hear your misfortune.

Sump Pump problem
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:42:05 -0400, Tony

stuff snipped

Thanks to every who had the patience and confidence in me to help.

No sweat Tony,

Ditto, Tony. I hope we were (mostly) helpful.

I was boilerman in the Navy working on high pressure steam/water
piping,

I knew we had something in common. My dad retired from Navy to become a
forensic investigator who specialized, among other things, in investigating
boiler explosions. I'm sure you know they can make a hell of a mess when
they blow, and many become guided missiles because a fitting breaks and
creates a "rocket nozzle" for the high pressure steam to exit. The boilers
are often found up to 300' from where they started.

stuff snipped

I knew you could do this as soon as I saw you could take the lid off
and operate a camera. No rocket science, all desire.

Coming here to ask questions before he hired a plumber certainly doesn't
qualify him to be called "clueless." Even if he doesn't do any of the work
himself, he's at least trying to learn as much as he can about the
situation. I was thrown the first time I saw that sort of completely
separate float switch controlling the pump via that "piggy back" outlet.
The only time I have ever seen those were Compaq monitor power cords so that
the PC only took one outlet instead of two. It's a quite natural mistake to
make, I think. The sump pump I just bought from HD has that same sort of
switch arrangement.

Sounds like a good reason to walk away from a mortgage, but you have
your own reasons.

As someone who was about to buy a horribly overpriced house when the market
collapsed, he has my utmost sympathy. Someone here insisted a while back
that we're out of the woods and the damage to people's live savings should
be minimal but the facts are that people are still losing homes that became
so overpriced in the great price run-up.

I've read that economists think there's another huge bubble working its way
through the economy: the college bubble. Everyone's told the same sort
stuff they said about houses: You'll make so much money over the
non-college folks, you can't lose, etc. The costs for college have been
skyrocketing while the product is largely unimproved. There's mounting
evidence that kids starting life with tens and even hundreds of thousands of
dollars in student loan debt don't make out anywhere near as well as they
had hoped to by taking on that outrageous debt. .

--
Bobby G.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 06:03:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:42:05 -0400, Tony



Sounds like a good reason to walk away from a mortgage, but you have
your own reasons.

As someone who was about to buy a horribly overpriced house when the market
collapsed, he has my utmost sympathy. Someone here insisted a while back
that we're out of the woods and the damage to people's live savings should
be minimal but the facts are that people are still losing homes that became
so overpriced in the great price run-up.


Home prices have been ridiculously high for years.
That should have been apparent to anybody who's been around a while.
I absolutely KNEW a big crash was coming.
When you KNOW you are making twice the income of those buying houses
you can't afford, and you KNOW your kids are making "decent" wages and
can't afford to buy a house - you KNOW it can't last.
And that's without even considering a jobs crash.
That's all simple market economics.
Americans are really delusional. And that includes its "leaders."
When houses were very near their high, I mentioned to my wife we could
sell our house, get an apartment for a couple years, then buy a house
after the crash.
Of course that wasn't serious, because our house is our home, not a
financial instrument.
The drop in home prices is far from over.

I've read that economists think there's another huge bubble working its way
through the economy: the college bubble. Everyone's told the same sort
stuff they said about houses: You'll make so much money over the
non-college folks, you can't lose, etc. The costs for college have been
skyrocketing while the product is largely unimproved. There's mounting
evidence that kids starting life with tens and even hundreds of thousands of
dollars in student loan debt don't make out anywhere near as well as they
had hoped to by taking on that outrageous debt. .

Hadn't even thought about that one. You're right about outrageous
costs. Academia is no better than the corporate executive ranks or
the medical industry at sucking up every penny they can.
They are very wealthy lots.
My kids never got deep in debt getting their degrees, and managed to
put them to use. Grants, part-time jobs, driving beaters.
I kicked in very little except kicks in the ass.
But the last one who just graduated is having a problem finding a job.
She just graduated a month ago, so it's not a big concern - yet.
Timing over which you have no control is always a factor.
A large element of life is guided by pure dumb luck.
When you were born, where you were born, who were your parents, etc.
What gets me is culinary and other "trade" schools.
I was downtown in Chicago a couple years ago doing something near the
Chicago Culinary Institute and talked to some young folks on break
there.
Found some were in hock +$30k for an 18 month "certificate"course.
My wife is a chef with over 20 years experience.
She makes $15 an hour.
And it's doubtful these kids will ever have the skill she has.
I just wished them luck and didn't discourage them.
But I felt depressed thinking about the disappointment and debt most
would find as their reward for trying.
Same with some of these automotive schools. Many if not most will get
in hock for 10's of thousands, and end up unemployed or at Jiffy Lube.
When I got out of the Navy in 1967 anybody who was willing to work
could find a job to support themselves, and with just a little hustle
a good enough job to support a wife and kids.
Didn't need "education." You got it on the job.
Not so easy now.
I always consider myself lucky just to be born when I was, and
usually my first thought when I meet somebody down and out is there
but for the grace of God go I.
And I'm not even religious.

--Vic

Sump Pump problem
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 06:03:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:42:05 -0400, Tony



Sounds like a good reason to walk away from a mortgage, but you have
your own reasons.

As someone who was about to buy a horribly overpriced house when the
market
collapsed, he has my utmost sympathy. Someone here insisted a while back
that we're out of the woods and the damage to people's live savings
should
be minimal but the facts are that people are still losing homes that
became
so overpriced in the great price run-up.


Home prices have been ridiculously high for years.
That should have been apparent to anybody who's been around a while.
I absolutely KNEW a big crash was coming.
When you KNOW you are making twice the income of those buying houses
you can't afford, and you KNOW your kids are making "decent" wages and
can't afford to buy a house - you KNOW it can't last.

Some people just had to move - their jobs required it. Analysts say that
part of the economic slowdown comes from people being locked into bad
housing situations and not being able to take advantage of job offers
elsewhere.

And that's without even considering a jobs crash.
That's all simple market economics.
Americans are really delusional. And that includes its "leaders."
When houses were very near their high, I mentioned to my wife we could
sell our house, get an apartment for a couple years, then buy a house
after the crash.
Of course that wasn't serious, because our house is our home, not a
financial instrument.

Too bad the people that cashed out all their equity didn't think like you.

The drop in home prices is far from over.

I wonder. I am of the opinion that government efforts to keep people in
homes they never could have afforded in the first place (at least not when
the various increases kicked in) is perpetuating a bad situation. The banks
have some role to play because they're clearly not anxious to flood the
market with foreclosures. They actually benefit in some cases by having an
owner in the house as a watchman.

I've read that economists think there's another huge bubble working its
way
through the economy: the college bubble. Everyone's told the same sort
stuff they said about houses: You'll make so much money over the
non-college folks, you can't lose, etc. The costs for college have been
skyrocketing while the product is largely unimproved. There's mounting
evidence that kids starting life with tens and even hundreds of thousands
of
dollars in student loan debt don't make out anywhere near as well as they
had hoped to by taking on that outrageous debt. .

Hadn't even thought about that one. You're right about outrageous
costs. Academia is no better than the corporate executive ranks or
the medical industry at sucking up every penny they can.
They are very wealthy lots.

Tuition costs are rising everywhere and analysts say the quality of
education is going in exactly the opposite direction. Those are tell-tale
signs of a bubble.

My kids never got deep in debt getting their degrees, and managed to
put them to use. Grants, part-time jobs, driving beaters.
I kicked in very little except kicks in the ass.
But the last one who just graduated is having a problem finding a job.
She just graduated a month ago, so it's not a big concern - yet.
Timing over which you have no control is always a factor.
A large element of life is guided by pure dumb luck.
When you were born, where you were born, who were your parents, etc.

Good Lord, yes. I had this discussion with Harry who insists otherwise but
I know much of my success had been attributable to being in the right place
at the right time. That's just life.

What gets me is culinary and other "trade" schools.
I was downtown in Chicago a couple years ago doing something near the
Chicago Culinary Institute and talked to some young folks on break
there.
Found some were in hock +$30k for an 18 month "certificate"course.
My wife is a chef with over 20 years experience.
She makes $15 an hour.
And it's doubtful these kids will ever have the skill she has.
I just wished them luck and didn't discourage them.
But I felt depressed thinking about the disappointment and debt most
would find as their reward for trying.

The Feds, which end up floating the loans for the tuition (in the long run)
have finally begun to realize the world doesn't need 10,000 more "Top
Chefs." Ironically, you see the same sort of run-up with all these cooking
shows that you did with all the HGTV-type "flip this house and make a
million" shows during the real-estate run-up. Clues, as you say, to the
wise. But con artists don't look to soak the wise.

Same with some of these automotive schools. Many if not most will get
in hock for 10's of thousands, and end up unemployed or at Jiffy Lube.
When I got out of the Navy in 1967 anybody who was willing to work
could find a job to support themselves, and with just a little hustle
a good enough job to support a wife and kids.
Didn't need "education." You got it on the job.

Times were different and I am afraid that world disappeared along with
Dufe's "good neighborly" world a long time ago. I mark the end when Disney
made a movie about prostitutes: "Pretty Woman." Of course, wags will argue
that something dastardly was going on in way, way before that in "Snow
White" with one woman living with seven unrelated dwarves.

Not so easy now.
I always consider myself lucky just to be born when I was, and
usually my first thought when I meet somebody down and out is there
but for the grace of God go I.

That's something my mother always said and I find myself saying when I see
friends and neighbors struggling with problems like cancer, divorce, job
loss and caring for their elders (when they are having a hard enough time
caring for themselves). The world is just too complicated to be smart
about everything and sometimes, through little fault of their own, people
find themselves in very deep kimshi.

And I'm not even religious.

Nor I, but I know when to thank my lucky stars. Hmmm, that reminds me of
the first Asimov books I ever read under the pen-name of Paul French, IIRC -
"Lucky Starr and some Planet in the Solar System" (can't quite remember the
names!) Lucky Starr and the Rings of Saturn was one, I think. (-;

Those days are long, long gone and I actually pity the kids growing up now.
The world, as my CompSci prof used to say, has long passed the point of the
intellectual control of people. It's too damn complicated and it seems to
double in complexity with each passing decade.

--
Bobby G.

Sump Pump problem
 

On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 18:18:57 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:


Some people just had to move - their jobs required it. Analysts say that
part of the economic slowdown comes from people being locked into bad
housing situations and not being able to take advantage of job offers
elsewhere.


Don't doubt any of that. Medical insurance is something else that
locks people down and hampers mobility.

The drop in home prices is far from over.

I wonder. I am of the opinion that government efforts to keep people in
homes they never could have afforded in the first place (at least not when
the various increases kicked in) is perpetuating a bad situation. The banks
have some role to play because they're clearly not anxious to flood the
market with foreclosures. They actually benefit in some cases by having an
owner in the house as a watchman.


You wouldn't know that from how quickly at least the big banks are
tossing people out. Empty houses are a big contributor to the
declining market.
One thing is always sure in the modern financial environment:
Whatever the machinations behind the banks' actions, they have nothing
to do with the economy at large, but all to do about short term
profits for the banks. ie share price and corporate exec compensation.
So don't count on banks to prop the housing market up.
They have the gov in their pocket and the Fed money presses at the
ready if any of their short-term schemes go south.

Tuition costs are rising everywhere and analysts say the quality of
education is going in exactly the opposite direction. Those are tell-tale
signs of a bubble.


What always really bugged me is textbooks. Talk about rip off.
And it was much worse for my kids.

Didn't need "education." You got it on the job.

Times were different and I am afraid that world disappeared along with
Dufe's "good neighborly" world a long time ago. I mark the end when Disney
made a movie about prostitutes: "Pretty Woman." Of course, wags will argue
that something dastardly was going on in way, way before that in "Snow
White" with one woman living with seven unrelated dwarves.


I blame "West Side Story," mostly the Jets.
On that note, a workmate had a theory that I like, and that upped my
respect for him as more than a tactical thinker.
He proposed that professional team sport free agency changed American
thinking from teamplay to dog-eat-dog.
As soon as athletes started making big buck out-of-whack salaries -
even .250 hitters - the corporate ranks followed, with the thinking
being "I'm running hundreds of people and bat more than .250."
Media celebrities earnings were in the mix too.
It was soon after widespread free agency that the press began
lionizing those of any ilk who accumulated wealth.
The super-rich formerly got kudos for their philanthropy.
Now they were praised for accumulating money.
The sports timeline fits well.
Anyway, I was a big baseball fan until 1978.
Played a lot of 16" as a kid and young adult.
Watched the White Sox build their team for years, hardly ever missed a
game. That's a lot of hours watching baseball.
Any time I could see the Reds play, I watched.
The Rose-Morgan era Reds are my all time favorite team.
So the '77 Sox with the South Side Hitmen almost won the pennant.
"Almost" is pretty good for Chicago baseball teams.
The next year half of them were gone due to free agency.
They left me, not caring about the time and beers I invested in them.
I never watched another inning of baseball in my life.
Oops, got a little off track there.

--Vic