Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible replaced?
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires


"Ziggs" wrote in message
...
When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?


**Yes, but that has no bearing on your problem

2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible replaced?


**If there is enough wire to cut them back, beyond the point where the
copper is annealed, that's fine, and I would use pigtails, and be sure that
they're tight


  #3   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,199
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 28, 5:08*pm, Ziggs wrote:
When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. *Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. *I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. *I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible *replaced?


First of all, your bathroom should have a 20 amp circuit. It sounds
like your house was built a while ago, and a 15A circuit was put in.

Also putting in a 15A GFi is not going to help. You can leave the 20A
outlet, it is still limited to 15A by the breaker. Your wasting your
money changing it to a 15A GFI.

If replacing the wiring to a 20A circuit is not feasible, then either
get a smaller hair dryer, or perhaps take some load of that circuit by
putting in some CFL bulbs.
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,106
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 28, 5:08*pm, Ziggs wrote:
When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. *Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. *I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. *I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible *replaced?


@Ziggs:

What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"...

Is it possible somewhere upstream in the circuit that you are
cross connected with the neutral of another different circuit
and it is that cross connection which has caused the melting ?

If you think about it you could have two separate 15amp circuits
running and only overload the neutral in the bathroom outlet box
where the heavy load from the outlet there where the hair dryer
gets used whenever the other cross wired circuit is also under
a load...

Even though all neutrals are connected to the same bus bar
in the load panel, the neutral wires from different circuits fed
from separate circuit breakers should never be connected
together anywhere but at the neutral bus bar in the service
panel as that can allow the neutral wires to overload and
melt just like happened to you...

I am suggesting this theory since you did not mention
any damage to the hot conductor in the effected outlet
box...

~~ Evan
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,530
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

Would be nice to know the size of the wire that feeds the
outlet. 14 AWG uses a 15 amp breaker, 12 AWG can use a 20
amp breaker.

The totally ideal repair is to replace the wire, use 12 AWG
Romex. 20 amp breaker, and 20 amp GFCI outlet. In th ereal
world, it's sometimes not practical to replace the wire.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ziggs" wrote in message
...
When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has
been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a
tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the
outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just
looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and
they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of
the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in
a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be
inspected or
possible replaced?




  #6   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,946
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

Ziggs wrote in news:rkn2u6lug8b6mf765hdi567i9a4gsfbcnt@
4ax.com:

When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible replaced?


Who put the 20A GFI on the 15A line? That person should not be messing with
it then or now. While the 15A breaker at the box should cover any overload
situation, the next no-no might not have such a check and balance.
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,399
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 29, 3:21*am, Evan wrote:
On May 28, 5:08*pm, Ziggs wrote:

When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. *Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. *I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. *I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.


So, here are a copy of questions


1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible *replaced?


@Ziggs:

What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? *There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"...


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection
that has some resistance. That resistance produces
heat.




  #8   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,227
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 29, 6:25*am, "
wrote:
On May 29, 3:21*am, Evan wrote:









On May 28, 5:08*pm, Ziggs wrote:


When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. *Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. *I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. *I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.


So, here are a copy of questions


1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible *replaced?


@Ziggs:


What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? *There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"...


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection
that has some resistance. * That resistance produces
heat.


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection

that has some resistance. That resistance produces
heat.

Bingo! A poor connection in the box (either at the GFI or the pig
tail) is the most likely cause of these issues.

A 15amp circuit for a hand held hair dryer is a bit skinny. As
suggest by another post, consider a lower watt hair dryer.

Check the tightness & condition of all neutral wires at the neutral
bus.

cheers
Bob
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,040
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

In article
,
DD_BobK wrote:

A 15amp circuit for a hand held hair dryer is a bit skinny.


I've never seen a hair dryer with a nameplate rating of more than 1500
watts. That's 12.5 amps. I'm pretty sure that's by design.
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,227
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 29, 8:16*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*DD_BobK wrote:
A 15amp circuit for a hand held hair dryer is a bit skinny.


I've never seen a hair dryer with a nameplate rating of more than 1500
watts. That's 12.5 amps. I'm pretty sure that's by design.




I checked my wife's hair dyers....one was 1500w, the other was 1875w

plus

Conair 228r Hair Dryer 1875w
Revlon - 1875 watt - Hot Air Styler
SOLIS #S404 INFERNO 1875 WATT HAND HELD HAIR DRYER
Phillips Handheld hair dryer 2000W - HP 8195/00

15 amps is a bit low for bathroom





  #11   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On 5/29/2011 11:03 PM, DD_BobK wrote:
On May 29, 8:16 am, Smitty wrote:
In article
,

wrote:
A 15amp circuit for a hand held hair dryer is a bit skinny.


I've never seen a hair dryer with a nameplate rating of more than 1500
watts. That's 12.5 amps. I'm pretty sure that's by design.




I checked my wife's hair dyers....one was 1500w, the other was 1875w

plus

Conair 228r Hair Dryer 1875w
Revlon - 1875 watt - Hot Air Styler
SOLIS #S404 INFERNO 1875 WATT HAND HELD HAIR DRYER
Phillips Handheld hair dryer 2000W - HP 8195/00

15 amps is a bit low for bathroom



Those 1875w units are 1875w @ 230v, 1500w or less on 115v.
That Phillips HP 8195/00 is 230v only.
1500w on 115v is the largest allowed plug-in home appliance in USA,
unless they have a 20a plug: (-|).
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,106
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 29, 8:21*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Would be nice to know the size of the wire that feeds the
outlet. 14 AWG uses a 15 amp breaker, 12 AWG can use a 20
amp breaker.

The totally ideal repair is to replace the wire, use 12 AWG
Romex. 20 amp breaker, and 20 amp GFCI outlet. In th ereal
world, it's sometimes not practical to replace the wire.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org


@Chris:

In general your wire size and breaker capacity logic is correct...

However in longer circuit runs, you see a #12 AWG wire being
used on a 15-amp circuit to counter voltage drop over the long
run... Ditto with #10 AWG wire being used on a 20-amp circuit
for the same reason... So wire size is NOT always directly
connected to the amperage capacity of the circuit...

~~ Evan
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,106
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 29, 9:25*am, "
wrote:
On May 29, 3:21*am, Evan wrote:



On May 28, 5:08*pm, Ziggs wrote:


When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. *Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. *I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. *I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.


So, here are a copy of questions


1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible *replaced?


@Ziggs:


What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? *There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"...


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection
that has some resistance. * That resistance produces
heat.


Clearly you have never seen a catastrophic overload condition
applied to undersized wiring...

The sort of thing where an improperly wired Edison multi-wire
branch circuit is being fed from the same leg of a home's
electrical service -- twice the rated current the neutral can
safely carry can be passing through it when both circuits
are being operated close to capacity...

This is why I suggested the OP make sure that *only* the
bathroom is being fed from the circuit demonstrating the
problems and that there is no connection to the neutral
wire of another circuit anywhere...

A loose connection is not always the answer, if that
were the case people wouldn't need to call out an
electrician every time they had an issue, they would
only need to check that all the connections were
properly tightened and that should solve the problem...

~~ Evan
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,538
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

Ziggs wrote:
When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.

So, here are a copy of questions

1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible replaced?


Whatever. You're just dealing with the symptoms. The actual SOLUTION is to
get the wife a less-powerful hair dryer.


  #15   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,530
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

If she had a 440/3 hair dryer, would she spend less time in
the bathroom?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Congoleum Breckenridge" wrote in
message ...


Those 1875w units are 1875w @ 230v, 1500w or less on 115v.
That Phillips HP 8195/00 is 230v only.
1500w on 115v is the largest allowed plug-in home appliance
in USA,
unless they have a 20a plug: (-|).




  #16   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,399
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 30, 1:01*am, Evan wrote:
On May 29, 9:25*am, "
wrote:





On May 29, 3:21*am, Evan wrote:


On May 28, 5:08*pm, Ziggs wrote:


When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. *Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. *I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. *I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they are
melted.


So, here are a copy of questions


1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the 20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected or
possible *replaced?


@Ziggs:


What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? *There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"...


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection
that has some resistance. * That resistance produces
heat.


Clearly you have never seen a catastrophic overload condition
applied to undersized wiring...


How does that have anything to do with my suggestion that
if he has three neutal
wires with melted insulation coming off the
pigtail connection in a box, it's more likely due to a bad
connection generating heat right there than two breakers feeding
back through the same neutral? Yes, that's possible,
but in my experience, it's far more likely that it's the
former.


The sort of thing where an improperly wired Edison multi-wire
branch circuit is being fed from the same leg of a home's
electrical service -- twice the rated current the neutral can
safely carry can be passing through it when both circuits
are being operated close to capacity...

This is why I suggested the OP make sure that *only* the
bathroom is being fed from the circuit demonstrating the
problems and that there is no connection to the neutral
wire of another circuit anywhere...

A loose connection is not always the answer, if that
were the case people wouldn't need to call out an
electrician every time they had an issue, they would
only need to check that all the connections were
properly tightened and that should solve the problem...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Geez. I never said a bad connection was the ONLY answer.
I said when you find a few inches of melted insulation
at a connection point, ie wire nut, screw terminal,
etc., it's far more likely the problem is the connection
not a mis-wired Edison circuit. You, on the other hand
never mentioned the more common, limited problem.

And the last part, about calling an electrician makes
zero sense. People have a variety of skills. Many
homeowners could not do the simple checking of
wire connections and correctly diagnose the problem,
so they would in fact call an electrician, regardless of
the cause.
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,981
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On 5/29/2011 10:18 PM, Congoleum Breckenridge wrote:
On 5/29/2011 11:03 PM, DD_BobK wrote:
On May 29, 8:16 am, Smitty wrote:
In article
,

wrote:
A 15amp circuit for a hand held hair dryer is a bit skinny.

I've never seen a hair dryer with a nameplate rating of more than 1500
watts. That's 12.5 amps. I'm pretty sure that's by design.




I checked my wife's hair dyers....one was 1500w, the other was 1875w

plus

Conair 228r Hair Dryer 1875w
Revlon - 1875 watt - Hot Air Styler
SOLIS #S404 INFERNO 1875 WATT HAND HELD HAIR DRYER
Phillips Handheld hair dryer 2000W - HP 8195/00

15 amps is a bit low for bathroom



Those 1875w units are 1875w @ 230v, 1500w or less on 115v.
That Phillips HP 8195/00 is 230v only.
1500w on 115v is the largest allowed plug-in home appliance in USA,
unless they have a 20a plug: (-|).


Cite.

The 1875W dryers could have 20A plugs (as you note at the end of your post).

The NEC only allows 80% plug-in loads on 15 and 20A circuits. (IMHO this
is a bad rule for several reasons.)

UL says the receptacles and plugs are rated 100% and will list short
time use devices (like a hair dryer) with ratings up to 15 or 20A with
15 or 20A plugs. (IMHO this is perfectly reasonable.)

--
bud--

  #18   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires


wrote in message
...
On May 30, 1:01 am, Evan wrote:
On May 29, 9:25 am, "
wrote:





On May 29, 3:21 am, Evan wrote:


On May 28, 5:08 pm, Ziggs wrote:


When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been
tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they
are
melted.


So, here are a copy of questions


1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the
20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected
or
possible replaced?


@Ziggs:


What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"...


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection
that has some resistance. That resistance produces
heat.


Clearly you have never seen a catastrophic overload condition
applied to undersized wiring...


How does that have anything to do with my suggestion that
if he has three neutal
wires with melted insulation coming off the
pigtail connection in a box, it's more likely due to a bad
connection generating heat right there than two breakers feeding
back through the same neutral? Yes, that's possible,
but in my experience, it's far more likely that it's the
former.


The sort of thing where an improperly wired Edison multi-wire
branch circuit is being fed from the same leg of a home's
electrical service -- twice the rated current the neutral can
safely carry can be passing through it when both circuits
are being operated close to capacity...

This is why I suggested the OP make sure that *only* the
bathroom is being fed from the circuit demonstrating the
problems and that there is no connection to the neutral
wire of another circuit anywhere...

A loose connection is not always the answer, if that
were the case people wouldn't need to call out an
electrician every time they had an issue, they would
only need to check that all the connections were
properly tightened and that should solve the problem...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Geez. I never said a bad connection was the ONLY answer.
I said when you find a few inches of melted insulation
at a connection point, ie wire nut, screw terminal,
etc., it's far more likely the problem is the connection
not a mis-wired Edison circuit. You, on the other hand
never mentioned the more common, limited problem.

And the last part, about calling an electrician makes
zero sense. People have a variety of skills. Many
homeowners could not do the simple checking of
wire connections and correctly diagnose the problem,
so they would in fact call an electrician, regardless of
the cause.

** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.


  #19   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,761
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On 5/30/2011 6:42 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
If she had a 440/3 hair dryer, would she spend less time in
the bathroom?


You have seen the automatic dog washing machines haven't you? You
put the doggie in the machine, close the door, push the start button
and the machine cycles through wash, rinse and dry without harming or
freaking out the dog. I would like to see the machines scaled up for
adults and children. The first customers would be institutions like
prisons or mental hospitals with home units arriving on the market
later. The institutional units could have restraint tie downs where
the inmate or patient is hooked up and sent down the conveyor belt.
The home units would be walk in and kids would probably like taking
a bath for a change. ^_^

TDD
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,399
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 30, 9:56*am, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 30, 1:01 am, Evan wrote:





On May 29, 9:25 am, "
wrote:


On May 29, 3:21 am, Evan wrote:


On May 28, 5:08 pm, Ziggs wrote:


When the hair dryer is on, our 15AMP circuit breaker has been
tripping
lately to the bathroom's outlet. Sometimes my wife sees a tiny flash
when the power to the outlet goes out. I just looked at the outlet
and it's a 20amp GFCI on the 15AMP circuit breaker. I just looked at
the three neutral wires on the other side of the pigtail and they
are
melted.


So, here are a copy of questions


1. Should I replace the outlet with a 15AMP GFIC instead of the
20AMP?
2. Can I just cut back the wires that are melted and put in a new
pigtail or should the wires coming into the outlet box be inspected
or
possible replaced?


@Ziggs:


What else besides the bathroom is connected to the 15amp
circuit in question which "nuisance trips" whenever you use a
hair dryer in the bathroom ? There has to be a lot more on
that circuit than just the bathroom if the neutral wires "melted"....


Melting is more typically caused by a poor connection
that has some resistance. That resistance produces
heat.


Clearly you have never seen a catastrophic overload condition
applied to undersized wiring...


How does that have anything to do with my suggestion that
if he has three neutal
wires with melted insulation coming off the
pigtail connection in a box, it's more likely due to a bad
connection generating heat right there than two breakers feeding
back through the same neutral? * Yes, that's possible,
but in my experience, it's far more likely that it's the
former.







The sort of thing where an improperly wired Edison multi-wire
branch circuit is being fed from the same leg of a home's
electrical service -- twice the rated current the neutral can
safely carry can be passing through it when both circuits
are being operated close to capacity...


This is why I suggested the OP make sure that *only* the
bathroom is being fed from the circuit demonstrating the
problems and that there is no connection to the neutral
wire of another circuit anywhere...


A loose connection is not always the answer, if that
were the case people wouldn't need to call out an
electrician every time they had an issue, they would
only need to check that all the connections were
properly tightened and that should solve the problem...


~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Geez. *I never said a bad connection was the ONLY answer.
*I said when you find a few inches of melted insulation
at a connection point, ie wire nut, screw terminal,
etc., it's far more likely the problem is the connection
not a mis-wired Edison circuit. *You, on the other hand
never mentioned the more common, limited problem.

And the last part, about calling an electrician makes
zero sense. * People have a variety of skills. *Many
homeowners could not do the simple checking of
wire connections and correctly diagnose the problem,
so they would in fact call an electrician, regardless of
the cause.

** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
*The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Thank you RBM. Now we have an electrician weighing in.
Good to see we're on the same page.


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,106
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 30, 9:56*am, "RBM" wrote:

** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
*The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.


Right, except how often do you open up a switch box which has
multiple circuits fed into it and see ALL of the white neutral wires
connected together ?

I never said it had to be an Edison circuit, just that if someone had
made an incorrect connection somewhere upstream and connected
the neutral wires from more than one circuit together that could cause
the exact same issue...

Given that the bathroom outlet was replaced with one with a higher
rating by someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing
all bets are off -- there could be several factors which added up to
cause that burn out...

Again, no one seems to know what else besides the one GFCI
bathroom outlet is also on the same circuit...

~~ Evan
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires


"Evan" wrote in message
...
On May 30, 9:56 am, "RBM" wrote:

** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from
the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.


Right, except how often do you open up a switch box which has
multiple circuits fed into it and see ALL of the white neutral wires
connected together ?

**I don't believe that there are multiple circuits in this junction box. It
sounds to me like it's one circuit branching off in several directions.This
was standard practice some years ago. Typically, where you find the burn,
you have the problem. It's not impossible that the problem is something more
obscure, just that it typically isn't.



I never said it had to be an Edison circuit, just that if someone had
made an incorrect connection somewhere upstream and connected
the neutral wires from more than one circuit together that could cause
the exact same issue...

Given that the bathroom outlet was replaced with one with a higher
rating by someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing
all bets are off -- there could be several factors which added up to
cause that burn out...

Again, no one seems to know what else besides the one GFCI
bathroom outlet is also on the same circuit...

~~ Evan


  #23   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,589
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On Mon, 30 May 2011 09:50:30 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 5/30/2011 6:42 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
If she had a 440/3 hair dryer, would she spend less time in
the bathroom?


You have seen the automatic dog washing machines haven't you? You
put the doggie in the machine, close the door, push the start button
and the machine cycles through wash, rinse and dry without harming or
freaking out the dog. I would like to see the machines scaled up for
adults and children. The first customers would be institutions like
prisons or mental hospitals with home units arriving on the market
later. The institutional units could have restraint tie downs where
the inmate or patient is hooked up and sent down the conveyor belt.
The home units would be walk in and kids would probably like taking
a bath for a change. ^_^


Kinda like the pizza ovens in PizzaHut?

  #27   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,761
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On 5/30/2011 8:19 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:40:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 5/30/2011 1:44 PM,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 09:50:30 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 5/30/2011 6:42 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
If she had a 440/3 hair dryer, would she spend less time in
the bathroom?


You have seen the automatic dog washing machines haven't you? You
put the doggie in the machine, close the door, push the start button
and the machine cycles through wash, rinse and dry without harming or
freaking out the dog. I would like to see the machines scaled up for
adults and children. The first customers would be institutions like
prisons or mental hospitals with home units arriving on the market
later. The institutional units could have restraint tie downs where
the inmate or patient is hooked up and sent down the conveyor belt.
The home units would be walk in and kids would probably like taking
a bath for a change. ^_^

Kinda like the pizza ovens in PizzaHut?


I've worked on a lot of those known as "conveyor ovens". They're an
interesting way to cook, very adaptable. :-)


I'll say they're adaptable. We have one of those too.
http://www.apsgold.com/reflow-ovens/...ee-reflow-oven


I repair/rebuild a lot of Middleby Marshall ovens that you see in a lot
of pizza places. You can use them to cook all kinds of foods, fast. ^_^

http://www.middleby.com/midmarsh/ps360.htm

TDD
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,589
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:39:00 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:40:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 5/30/2011 1:44 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 09:50:30 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 5/30/2011 6:42 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
If she had a 440/3 hair dryer, would she spend less time in
the bathroom?


You have seen the automatic dog washing machines haven't you? You
put the doggie in the machine, close the door, push the start button
and the machine cycles through wash, rinse and dry without harming or
freaking out the dog. I would like to see the machines scaled up for
adults and children. The first customers would be institutions like
prisons or mental hospitals with home units arriving on the market
later. The institutional units could have restraint tie downs where
the inmate or patient is hooked up and sent down the conveyor belt.
The home units would be walk in and kids would probably like taking
a bath for a change. ^_^

Kinda like the pizza ovens in PizzaHut?


I've worked on a lot of those known as "conveyor ovens". They're an
interesting way to cook, very adaptable. :-)


I'll say they're adaptable. We have one of those too.
http://www.apsgold.com/reflow-ovens/...d-free-reflow-
oven


A "lead-free" reflow oven?


There is no lead in the process. Your point?

Do they charge extra for that imaginary feature?


No, with all those heaters the PF is quite low.
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 679
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires


THERE YOU ALL GO AGAIN SPOUTING OFF TOPIC CRAP.
THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THIS POST IS WRONG...AND ALL YOU CAN TALK ABOUT
IS YOUR OWN PETTY CONCERNS.........SHAME ON YOU!
TGITM
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,040
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

In article ,
" wrote:

A "lead-free" reflow oven?


There is no lead in the process. Your point?


My point is that there is no damn difference between a reflow oven for
leaded solder and a reflow oven for RoHS solder. It's advertising
absurdity.


  #31   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,589
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:46:12 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

A "lead-free" reflow oven?


There is no lead in the process. Your point?


My point is that there is no damn difference between a reflow oven for
leaded solder and a reflow oven for RoHS solder. It's advertising
absurdity.


There actually is a difference. Temperature and control. RoHS takes more of
both. That's why they have as many as 12 zones (as ours does, though it's not
the one I linked). That many zones isn't necessary for a lead solder process.
The margin of error is almost zero with RoHS.
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,040
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

In article ,
" wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:46:12 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

A "lead-free" reflow oven?

There is no lead in the process. Your point?


My point is that there is no damn difference between a reflow oven for
leaded solder and a reflow oven for RoHS solder. It's advertising
absurdity.


There actually is a difference. Temperature and control. RoHS takes more of
both. That's why they have as many as 12 zones (as ours does, though it's not
the one I linked). That many zones isn't necessary for a lead solder process.
The margin of error is almost zero with RoHS.


I think that's utter nonsense.
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
N8N N8N is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,192
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 30, 2:31*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

...
On May 30, 9:56 am, "RBM" wrote:

** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from
the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.


Right, except how often do you open up a switch box which has
multiple circuits fed into it and see ALL of the white neutral wires
connected together ?

**I don't believe that there are multiple circuits in this junction box. It
sounds to me like it's one circuit branching off in several directions.This
was standard practice some years ago. Typically, where you find the burn,
you have the problem. It's not impossible that the problem is something more
obscure, just that it typically isn't.

I never said it had to be an Edison circuit, just that if someone had
made an incorrect connection somewhere upstream and connected
the neutral wires from more than one circuit together that could cause
the exact same issue...

Given that the bathroom outlet was replaced with one with a higher
rating by someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing
all bets are off -- there could be several factors which added up to
cause that burn out...


Not necessarily. Most GFCI receps are rated @ 20A even if they are
NEMA 5-15R. (so they can be used on a 20A circuit... like a
bathroom.) Someone probably had a recep in the bathroom and decided
to replace it with a GFCI to make it closer to conforming to current
code. Makes sense to me. Problem is that the ckt. is still 15A and
the OP is putting high load on it (which is the reason for the 20A
requirement in the first place.) We're just speculating at this point
as to why the neutral connection is "melted."

Now if the GFCI is in fact NEMA 5-20R then someone did something that
they shouldn't have, although it is still not the source of the
problem.

nate

Again, no one seems to know what else besides the one GFCI
bathroom outlet is also on the same circuit...

~~ Evan


  #34   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 679
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 31, 8:19*am, N8N wrote:
On May 30, 2:31*pm, "RBM" wrote:





"Evan" wrote in message


....
On May 30, 9:56 am, "RBM" wrote:


** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from
the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.


Right, except how often do you open up a switch box which has
multiple circuits fed into it and see ALL of the white neutral wires
connected together ?


**I don't believe that there are multiple circuits in this junction box.. It
sounds to me like it's one circuit branching off in several directions.This
was standard practice some years ago. Typically, where you find the burn,
you have the problem. It's not impossible that the problem is something more
obscure, just that it typically isn't.


I never said it had to be an Edison circuit, just that if someone had
made an incorrect connection somewhere upstream and connected
the neutral wires from more than one circuit together that could cause
the exact same issue...


Given that the bathroom outlet was replaced with one with a higher
rating by someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing
all bets are off -- there could be several factors which added up to
cause that burn out...


Not necessarily. *Most GFCI receps are rated @ 20A even if they are
NEMA 5-15R. *(so they can be used on a 20A circuit... like a
bathroom.) *Someone probably had a recep in the bathroom and decided
to replace it with a GFCI to make it closer to conforming to current
code. *Makes sense to me. *Problem is that the ckt. is still 15A and
the OP is putting high load on it (which is the reason for the 20A
requirement in the first place.) *We're just speculating at this point
as to why the neutral connection is "melted."

Now if the GFCI is in fact NEMA 5-20R then someone did something that
they shouldn't have, although it is still not the source of the
problem.

nate



Again, no one seems to know what else besides the one GFCI
bathroom outlet is also on the same circuit...


~~ Evan


REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY PLUG INTO THE CIRCUIT IT IS LIMITED AND
PROTECTED UPTO 15AMPS.
I AM WITH EVANS SCHOOL THAT SAYS THE GFCI WAS WIRED IMPROPERLY WITH A
LOOSE NEUTRAL CONNECTION....THEREFOR THE OVERHEATED OR MELTED
INSULATION.
MASTER ELECTRICIANS AND PROFESSIONAL HANDYMEN DO NOT USE PUSHIN
CONNECTOR HOLES IN RECEPTACLES, AND SECURE ALL CONDUCTORS TIGHTLY WITH
THE SCREW OPTION ALWAYS.
TGITM
  #35   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
N8N N8N is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,192
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 31, 1:45*pm, The Ghost in The Machine
wrote:
On May 31, 8:19*am, N8N wrote:





On May 30, 2:31*pm, "RBM" wrote:


"Evan" wrote in message


....
On May 30, 9:56 am, "RBM" wrote:


** I rarely find burn outs from improperly connected Edison circuits. I'd
have to say that a good percentage of Edison circuits that I explore, are
incorrectly done. Typically, I just find the white wire turns brown from
the
excessive heat, right at the neutral buss.
The OP has a classic, loose connection under a wire nut, with a high
amperage draw, over time anneals the copper, degrades and overheats the
connection to the point of disintegration, and opens the circuit.


Right, except how often do you open up a switch box which has
multiple circuits fed into it and see ALL of the white neutral wires
connected together ?


**I don't believe that there are multiple circuits in this junction box. It
sounds to me like it's one circuit branching off in several directions.This
was standard practice some years ago. Typically, where you find the burn,
you have the problem. It's not impossible that the problem is something more
obscure, just that it typically isn't.


I never said it had to be an Edison circuit, just that if someone had
made an incorrect connection somewhere upstream and connected
the neutral wires from more than one circuit together that could cause
the exact same issue...


Given that the bathroom outlet was replaced with one with a higher
rating by someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing
all bets are off -- there could be several factors which added up to
cause that burn out...


Not necessarily. *Most GFCI receps are rated @ 20A even if they are
NEMA 5-15R. *(so they can be used on a 20A circuit... like a
bathroom.) *Someone probably had a recep in the bathroom and decided
to replace it with a GFCI to make it closer to conforming to current
code. *Makes sense to me. *Problem is that the ckt. is still 15A and
the OP is putting high load on it (which is the reason for the 20A
requirement in the first place.) *We're just speculating at this point
as to why the neutral connection is "melted."


Now if the GFCI is in fact NEMA 5-20R then someone did something that
they shouldn't have, although it is still not the source of the
problem.


nate


Again, no one seems to know what else besides the one GFCI
bathroom outlet is also on the same circuit...


~~ Evan


REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY PLUG INTO THE CIRCUIT IT IS LIMITED AND
PROTECTED UPTO 15AMPS.
I AM WITH EVANS SCHOOL THAT SAYS THE GFCI WAS WIRED IMPROPERLY WITH A
LOOSE NEUTRAL CONNECTION....THEREFOR THE OVERHEATED OR MELTED
INSULATION.
MASTER ELECTRICIANS AND PROFESSIONAL HANDYMEN DO NOT USE PUSHIN
CONNECTOR HOLES IN RECEPTACLES, AND SECURE ALL CONDUCTORS TIGHTLY WITH
THE SCREW OPTION ALWAYS.
TGITM


I agree with everything that you say... I was just pointing out that
saying that someone installed the wrong GFCI because it's "20 AMP"
isn't necessarily a true statement. Most GFCIs w/ NEMA 5-15R
receptacle(s) are still rated @ 20A because 5-15Rs are permitted on a
20A circuit and it is often convenient to use a GFCI recep as the
first one in a "string" rather than using a GFCI breaker. But if it
has a true NEMA 5-20R recep then it was the wrong device but not the
cause of the problem.

nate


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

I agree with everything that you say... I was just pointing out that
saying that someone installed the wrong GFCI because it's "20 AMP"
isn't necessarily a true statement.

** When it's installed on a 15 amp circuit, it's a correct statement. When
an electrical receptacle is referred to as 15, 20, 30 amp, etc. the
reference is being made to the devices configuration, not it's pass through
capacity






Most GFCIs w/ NEMA 5-15R
receptacle(s) are still rated @ 20A because 5-15Rs are permitted on a
20A circuit and it is often convenient to use a GFCI recep as the
first one in a "string" rather than using a GFCI breaker. But if it
has a true NEMA 5-20R recep then it was the wrong device but not the
cause of the problem.

nate


  #37   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
N8N N8N is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,192
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 31, 4:38*pm, "RBM" wrote:
I agree with everything that you say... *I was just pointing out that
saying that someone installed the wrong GFCI because it's "20 AMP"
isn't necessarily a true statement.

** When it's installed on a 15 amp circuit, it's a correct statement. When
an electrical receptacle is referred to as 15, 20, 30 amp, etc. the
reference is being made to the devices configuration, not it's pass through
capacity


You're assuming that the OP is using the same conventions and
terminology that you do. I haven't seen yet where he specified.
Irrelevant anyway as when was the last time you saw a hair dryer with
a 20A plug?
nate
  #38   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,589
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On Mon, 30 May 2011 22:18:26 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:46:12 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

A "lead-free" reflow oven?

There is no lead in the process. Your point?

My point is that there is no damn difference between a reflow oven for
leaded solder and a reflow oven for RoHS solder. It's advertising
absurdity.


There actually is a difference. Temperature and control. RoHS takes more of
both. That's why they have as many as 12 zones (as ours does, though it's not
the one I linked). That many zones isn't necessary for a lead solder process.
The margin of error is almost zero with RoHS.


I think that's utter nonsense.


You're certainly welcome to believe what you want, but you can't have your own
set of facts. Sorry.

That's why we replaced the oven. Four zones wasn't enough to do RoHS
reliably. The RoHS process really is that tricky to do right.

You should learn something about the subject before spouting such nonsense.
Your continued defense is telling, though.
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 679
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On May 31, 7:43*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 22:18:26 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:





In article ,
" wrote:


On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:46:12 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:


In article ,
" wrote:


A "lead-free" reflow oven?


There is no lead in the process. *Your point?


My point is that there is no damn difference between a reflow oven for
leaded solder and a reflow oven for RoHS solder. It's advertising
absurdity.


There actually is a difference. *Temperature and control. *RoHS takes more of
both. *That's why they have as many as 12 zones (as ours does, though it's not
the one I linked). *That many zones isn't necessary for a lead solder process.
The margin of error is almost zero with RoHS.


I think that's utter nonsense.


You're certainly welcome to believe what you want, but you can't have your own
set of facts. *Sorry. *

That's why we replaced the oven. *Four zones wasn't enough to do RoHS
reliably. *The RoHS process really is that tricky to do right. *

You should learn something about the subject before spouting such nonsense.
Your continued defense is telling, though.


I SEE YOU ARE LICKING SPACKLING NOW...JUST STICK YOUR HEAD IN THAT OFF
TOPIC OVEN YOU KEEP BRINGING UP...THE REAPER REALLY WANTS TO UPDATE
YOUR DEPARTURE.
HE DOESNT CARE IF YOU WORK FOR THE FENCE OR NOT, THE GRASS IS GREENER
THAN YOU THINK.
BOOWAHAHAHAHA

YOU ARE OUR OFFICIAL HOLIDAY OVEN STUFFED ROASTER.
NOBODY CALLED.......SAVE THE CHILDREN!!!!!
THE ADULTS ARE ALL HOLSTERED, TOASTED AND TOTALLY INSANE.

TGITM
PATECUM

THEY WANT TO KNOW..WHAT IS A GFCI AGAIN.

BOOWAHAHAHA...BANGOR.
  #40   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,589
Default 20amp GFCI outlet on a 15amp circuit. melted wires

On Tue, 31 May 2011 20:00:26 -0700 (PDT), The Ghost in The Machine
wrote:

I just use the word "nonsense" and who walks in but Roy Queerjano! Right on
cue, Queerjano!
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much does it cost to change 15amp circuit to 20 amp RS Home Repair 84 April 6th 18 12:58 AM
20amp Circuit How many computers T.J. Home Repair 22 February 1st 07 09:59 PM
15amp breaker on 20amp circuit - ok? Mike Home Repair 5 March 4th 06 02:47 AM
Trying to install a GFCI outlet where I have 4 wires total Adam Preble Home Repair 14 August 23rd 05 03:39 AM
Installing GFCI outlet with 6 wires in wall [email protected] Home Ownership 5 January 31st 05 11:40 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"