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#1
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Field report on electrical push connectors
Brought home first boxes of 2, 4 and 6 Wago push connectors. The name
is a bit cutesy, they call them Wall Nuts, letting us know that they replace wire nuts, I suppose. First use was a quad outlet with GFCI and conventional receptacle in a regular metal box. Used 12 gauge and 20A devices. With the GFCI things get really crowded since they are rather large. Used stranded to connect the receptacle to the load, and push connectors as needed. The connectors needed a fair push to insert, and once in place, the view of the installation was nice to confirm proper placement. Over all the hook up time was maybe a third shorter than standard wire nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Left plenty of room in the box for the nest of wires and connectors. I'll probably use a lot more of these than wire nuts, so it may be a while before I toss the latter. Joe |
#2
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, Joe wrote:
nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... |
#3
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 20, 2:39*am, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, Joe wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection |
#4
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. |
#5
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Field report on electrical push connectors
George wrote in :
On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. -- Tegger |
#6
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
George wrote in : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut on the connection. |
#7
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, Joe wrote:
Brought home first boxes of 2, 4 and 6 Wago push connectors. The name is a bit cutesy, they call them Wall Nuts, letting us know that they replace wire nuts, I suppose. First use was a quad outlet with GFCI and conventional receptacle in a regular metal box. Used 12 gauge and 20A devices. With the GFCI things get really crowded since they are rather large. Used stranded to connect the receptacle to the load, and push connectors as needed. The connectors needed a fair push to insert, and once in place, the view of the installation was nice to confirm proper placement. Over all the hook up time was maybe a third shorter than standard wire nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Left plenty of room in the box for the nest of wires and connectors. I'll probably use a lot more of these than wire nuts, so it may be a while before I toss the latter. Joe These look like something I saw at Lowes. Don't know if they are the same but the ones at Lowes have a connection no different than a back- stab receptacle. A thin piece of metal to make the connection by wedging against the wire. Just because it has UL on the label doesn't mean it is a good product, DAGS 'ideal purple wire nuts'. http://www1.futureelectronics.com/do..._VE00-2500.pdf Sure it is easier and faster but is it as good as a wire nut that forces a large portion of the conducters together? I think not... |
#8
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Field report on electrical push connectors
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#10
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 19, 10:50*pm, Joe wrote:
Brought home first boxes of 2, 4 and 6 Wago push connectors. The name is a bit cutesy, they call them Wall Nuts, letting us know that they replace wire nuts, I suppose. First use was a quad outlet with GFCI and conventional receptacle in a regular metal box. Used 12 gauge and 20A devices. With the GFCI things get really crowded since they are rather large. Used stranded to connect the receptacle to the load, and push connectors as needed. The connectors needed a fair push to insert, and once in place, the view of the installation was nice to confirm proper placement. Over all the hook up time was maybe a third shorter than standard wire nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Left plenty of room in the box for the nest of wires and connectors. I'll probably use a lot more of these than wire nuts, so it may be a while before I toss the latter. Joe Got a web site with pictures?? |
#11
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 20, 7:16*am, Tegger wrote:
George wrote : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry *wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, *wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. -- Tegger I always twist stranded, never twist solid. The wire nut is going to twist the stranded anyway, but if you twist first you can be sure it doesn't kink or lose a strand. The wire nut is not going the twist the solid anyway and if you twist first you get a looser connection. Neither is anywhere near as reliable or safe as a chocolate block. |
#12
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Field report on electrical push connectors
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#13
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 20, 11:46*am, Red Green wrote:
Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. A properly sized wire nut, installed properly is never coming loose on its own. The most likely reason for most people to take one off intentionally would be to remove/replace one of the wires, in which case you would want them to separate (though you should probably be cutting the ends off anyway if you're going to reconnect). Also, when properly installed, the contact area between the wires will be far greater than the cross sectional area of one wire. In reality, my original point was just that you were giving your extra, unnecessary step as a reason why wire nuts were more trouble to install than the push connectors... I am certainly not a professional either, just some schmuk who twisted wires for years (decades) before happening across a description of how to do it properly in an electrical manual and took some time to looks at how they really work... |
#14
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Field report on electrical push connectors
Larry Fishel wrote in
: On Apr 20, 11:46*am, Red Green wrote: Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the abo ve connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were t o fall off the twisting was a backup. A properly sized wire nut, installed properly is never coming loose on its own. The most likely reason for most people to take one off intentionally would be to remove/replace one of the wires, in which case you would want them to separate (though you should probably be cutting the ends off anyway if you're going to reconnect). Also, when properly installed, the contact area between the wires will be far greater than the cross sectional area of one wire. In reality, my original point was just that you were giving your extra, unnecessary step as a reason why wire nuts were more trouble to install than the push connectors... I am certainly not a professional either, just some schmuk who twisted wires for years (decades) before happening across a description of how to do it properly in an electrical manual and took some time to looks at how they really work... No argument Larry. I've done it both ways as well. |
#15
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On 4/20/2011 9:11 AM, Bill Gill wrote:
On 4/20/2011 7:58 AM, dpb wrote: On 4/20/2011 7:06 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC), wrote: wrote in : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut on the connection. Which again is _NOT_ a reqm't of any manufacturer -- I posted links to the app notes only a week or so ago. It's allowable, but not necessary for installation in accordance w/ intended use. -- And once again, I will continue to twist the wires. That way there is no way that they will pop off if I mess up and don't get the wire nuts properly installed. As I said the last time I have had that happen, not with mine, with one that was installed by somebody else. Bill The usual thing I find when troubleshooting a problem is a broken wire due to someone pretwisting the wires. You remove the wirenut and everything is all held together because of the twists but one wire will be broken. |
#16
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote:
Larry wrote in news:651fad9c-4486-4408-a29a- : On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... In this case f*k the instructions. Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing department. Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force. I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and simply twist on a good quality wirenut. |
#17
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Field report on electrical push connectors
George wrote in :
On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote: Larry wrote in news:651fad9c-4486-4408-a29a- : On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... In this case f*k the instructions. Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing department. Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and simply twist on a good quality wirenut. Great. Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're doing it for someone else, do it to code. For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious being only a wanna-be myself. |
#18
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus:
George wrote in : On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote: Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing department. Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and simply twist on a good quality wirenut. Great. Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're doing it for someone else, do it to code. For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious being only a wanna-be myself. What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what. At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes. What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I know that it's on good and tight. Pliers? Nah. -- The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization: yo wassup nuttin wan2 hang k where here k l8tr by - from Usenet (what's *that*?) |
#19
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 20, 7:52*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus: George wrote in : On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote: Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing department. Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and simply twist on a good quality wirenut. Great. Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're doing it for someone else, do it to code. For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious being only a wanna-be myself. What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what. At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes. What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I know that it's on good and tight. Pliers? Nah. -- The bottom line with a wirenut is you CANNOT know how well you did it. You can't see the connection. It might be perfectly twisted, it might have broken wires, one strand may have slipped and be barely touching. That's why they are illegal in Europe (replaced by chocolate blocks.) |
#20
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:58:11 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 4/20/2011 7:06 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC), wrote: wrote in : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut on the connection. Which again is _NOT_ a reqm't of any manufacturer -- I posted links to the app notes only a week or so ago. It's allowable, but not necessary for installation in accordance w/ intended use. I'm not an electrician, but I'd think you would *only* install them the way they're rated to be installed, i.e. per manufacturer's instructions. |
#21
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 20, 9:23*pm, "
wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:58:11 -0500, dpb wrote: On 4/20/2011 7:06 AM, wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC), *wrote: *wrote : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry * wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, * wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut on the connection. Which again is _NOT_ a reqm't of any manufacturer -- I posted links to the app notes only a week or so ago. *It's allowable, but not necessary for installation in accordance w/ intended use. I'm not an electrician, but I'd think you would *only* install them the way they're rated to be installed, i.e. per manufacturer's instructions.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - This came up on holmes inspection show. The electrician remarked he always twists the wires, to prevent poor connections and outages. I use wire nuts on the machines I service for a living nearly all stranded wires, I twist then install a wirenut |
#22
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 20, 7:52*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what. At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes. I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure it says something along the lines of things must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions... (Generally, not specifically for wire nuts.) |
#23
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On 4/20/2011 9:09 PM, TimR wrote:
On Apr 20, 7:52 pm, David wrote: On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus: wrote in : On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote: Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing department. Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and simply twist on a good quality wirenut. Great. Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're doing it for someone else, do it to code. For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious being only a wanna-be myself. What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what. At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes. What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I know that it's on good and tight. Pliers? Nah. -- The bottom line with a wirenut is you CANNOT know how well you did it. You can't see the connection. It might be perfectly twisted, it might have broken wires, one strand may have slipped and be barely touching. That's why they are illegal in Europe (replaced by chocolate blocks.) That is why I pull-test every wirenut connection I make. Tug like hell on the nut, holding each feed wire in turn. Haven't had one fail yet. Previous owner here never mastered that, and I had several wirenuts flee into dark corners when I looked at them wrong. -- aem sends... |
#24
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Field report on electrical push connectors
David Nebenzahl wrote in
s.com: On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus: George wrote in : On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote: Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing department. Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force. Not that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup. I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and simply twist on a good quality wirenut. Great. Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're doing it for someone else, do it to code. For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious being only a wanna-be myself. What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what. Otay! Duct tape it is! At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes. What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I know that it's on good and tight. Yep. Have seen it that way when removing something and made it that way when assembling. Pliers? Nah. |
#25
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Field report on electrical push connectors
"TimR" wrote in message ... On Apr 20, 7:16 am, Tegger wrote: George wrote : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. -- Tegger I always twist stranded, never twist solid. The wire nut is going to twist the stranded anyway, but if you twist first you can be sure it doesn't kink or lose a strand. The wire nut is not going the twist the solid anyway and if you twist first you get a looser connection. Neither is anywhere near as reliable or safe as a chocolate block. I twist stranded not solid wire also. Any time that I have tried to twist solid wires together, the act of cutting the twisted lump down to the 3/8" to 7/16" length to fit into a wire nut with no bare copper showing, causes the twisted wires to fall apart. I find that keeping the stripped wires parallel and screwing down the nut real tight works well. I have tried the wire nuts that have a brass ring with a set screw can work well, but sometimes the screw will clamp down real tight, but the stresses of stuffing the wires into the box will re-arrange some wires and result in a loose fit, needing the set screw to be tightened further. But since the wires are now in the box with the plastic cap covering the set screw, it may be impossible to tell if it is loose unless a wire falls out or the connection arcs. |
#26
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Field report on electrical push connectors
On Apr 22, 12:19*pm, "EXT" wrote:
"TimR" wrote in message ... On Apr 20, 7:16 am, Tegger wrote: George wrote : On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote: On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry *wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, *wrote: nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra pliers was nice. Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the instructions on the box of wire nuts... you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts, otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over heated connection But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires. The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take a look inside next time you use one. -- Tegger I always twist stranded, never twist solid. The wire nut is going to twist the stranded anyway, but if you twist first you can be sure it doesn't kink or lose a strand. The wire nut is not going the twist the solid anyway and if you twist first you get a looser connection. Neither is anywhere near as reliable or safe as a chocolate block. I twist stranded not solid wire also. Any time that I have tried to twist solid wires together, the act of cutting the twisted lump down to the 3/8" to 7/16" length to fit into a wire nut with no bare copper showing, causes the twisted wires to fall apart. I find that keeping the stripped wires parallel and screwing down the nut real tight works well. I have tried the wire nuts that have a brass ring with a set screw can work well, but sometimes the screw will clamp down real tight, but the stresses of stuffing the wires into the box will re-arrange some wires and result in a loose fit, needing the set screw to be tightened further. But since the wires are now in the box with the plastic cap covering the set screw, it may be impossible to tell if it is loose unless a wire falls out or the connection arcs.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
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