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Joe Joe is offline
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

Brought home first boxes of 2, 4 and 6 Wago push connectors. The name
is a bit cutesy, they call them Wall Nuts, letting us know that they
replace wire nuts, I suppose.
First use was a quad outlet with GFCI and conventional receptacle in a
regular metal box. Used 12 gauge and 20A devices. With the GFCI things
get really crowded since they are rather large. Used stranded to
connect the receptacle to the load, and push connectors as needed.
The connectors needed a fair push to insert, and once in place, the
view of the installation was nice to confirm proper placement. Over
all the hook up time was maybe a third shorter than standard wire
nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice. Left plenty of room in the box for the nest of wires
and connectors.
I'll probably use a lot more of these than wire nuts, so it may be a
while before I toss the latter.

Joe
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, Joe wrote:
nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...
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On Apr 20, 2:39*am, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, Joe wrote:

nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote:

nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

George wrote in :

On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote:

nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.

Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.




The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take
a look inside next time you use one.


--
Tegger


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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:

George wrote in :

On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote:

nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.

Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...

you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.




The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take
a look inside next time you use one.


Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut on the
connection.
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On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, Joe wrote:
Brought home first boxes of 2, 4 and 6 Wago push connectors. The name
is a bit cutesy, they call them Wall Nuts, letting us know that they
replace wire nuts, I suppose.
First use was a quad outlet with GFCI and conventional receptacle in a
regular metal box. Used 12 gauge and 20A devices. With the GFCI things
get really crowded since they are rather large. Used stranded to
connect the receptacle to the load, and push connectors as needed.
The connectors needed a fair push to insert, and once in place, the
view of the installation was nice to confirm proper placement. Over
all the hook up time was maybe a third shorter than standard wire
nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice. Left plenty of room in the box for the nest of wires
and connectors.
I'll probably use a lot more of these than wire nuts, so it may be a
while before I toss the latter.

Joe


These look like something I saw at Lowes. Don't know if they are the
same but the ones at Lowes have a connection no different than a back-
stab receptacle. A thin piece of metal to make the connection by
wedging against the wire. Just because it has UL on the label doesn't
mean it is a good product, DAGS 'ideal purple wire nuts'.

http://www1.futureelectronics.com/do..._VE00-2500.pdf

Sure it is easier and faster but is it as good as a wire nut that
forces a large portion of the conducters together? I think not...

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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On Apr 19, 10:50*pm, Joe wrote:
Brought home first boxes of 2, 4 and 6 Wago push connectors. The name
is a bit cutesy, they call them Wall Nuts, letting us know that they
replace wire nuts, I suppose.
First use was a quad outlet with GFCI and conventional receptacle in a
regular metal box. Used 12 gauge and 20A devices. With the GFCI things
get really crowded since they are rather large. Used stranded to
connect the receptacle to the load, and push connectors as needed.
The connectors needed a fair push to insert, and once in place, the
view of the installation was nice to confirm proper placement. Over
all the hook up time was maybe a third shorter than standard wire
nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice. Left plenty of room in the box for the nest of wires
and connectors.
I'll probably use a lot more of these than wire nuts, so it may be a
while before I toss the latter.

Joe


Got a web site with pictures??


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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On Apr 20, 7:16*am, Tegger wrote:
George wrote :

On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry *wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, *wrote:


nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.


The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take
a look inside next time you use one.

--
Tegger


I always twist stranded, never twist solid.

The wire nut is going to twist the stranded anyway, but if you twist
first you can be sure it doesn't kink or lose a strand.

The wire nut is not going the twist the solid anyway and if you twist
first you get a looser connection.

Neither is anywhere near as reliable or safe as a chocolate block.
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On Apr 20, 11:46*am, Red Green wrote:
Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the above
connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the
completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut were to
fall off the twisting was a backup.


A properly sized wire nut, installed properly is never coming loose on
its own. The most likely reason for most people to take one off
intentionally would be to remove/replace one of the wires, in which
case you would want them to separate (though you should probably be
cutting the ends off anyway if you're going to reconnect). Also, when
properly installed, the contact area between the wires will be far
greater than the cross sectional area of one wire.

In reality, my original point was just that you were giving your
extra, unnecessary step as a reason why wire nuts were more trouble to
install than the push connectors...

I am certainly not a professional either, just some schmuk who twisted
wires for years (decades) before happening across a description of how
to do it properly in an electrical manual and took some time to looks
at how they really work...
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

Larry Fishel wrote in
:

On Apr 20, 11:46*am, Red Green wrote:
Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the
abo

ve
connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only meaning the
completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a wire nut
were t

o
fall off the twisting was a backup.


A properly sized wire nut, installed properly is never coming loose on
its own. The most likely reason for most people to take one off
intentionally would be to remove/replace one of the wires, in which
case you would want them to separate (though you should probably be
cutting the ends off anyway if you're going to reconnect). Also, when
properly installed, the contact area between the wires will be far
greater than the cross sectional area of one wire.

In reality, my original point was just that you were giving your
extra, unnecessary step as a reason why wire nuts were more trouble to
install than the push connectors...

I am certainly not a professional either, just some schmuk who twisted
wires for years (decades) before happening across a description of how
to do it properly in an electrical manual and took some time to looks
at how they really work...



No argument Larry. I've done it both ways as well.

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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On 4/20/2011 9:11 AM, Bill Gill wrote:
On 4/20/2011 7:58 AM, dpb wrote:
On 4/20/2011 7:06 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

wrote in :

On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote:

nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.

Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...

you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection

But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.



The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut.
Take
a look inside next time you use one.

Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut
on the
connection.


Which again is _NOT_ a reqm't of any manufacturer -- I posted links to
the app notes only a week or so ago. It's allowable, but not necessary
for installation in accordance w/ intended use.

--

And once again, I will continue to twist the wires. That way there is
no way that they will pop off if I mess up and don't get the wire
nuts properly installed. As I said the last time I have had that
happen, not with mine, with one that was installed by somebody else.

Bill


The usual thing I find when troubleshooting a problem is a broken wire
due to someone pretwisting the wires. You remove the wirenut and
everything is all held together because of the twists but one wire will
be broken.


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George wrote in :

On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote:
Larry wrote in
news:651fad9c-4486-4408-a29a-
:

On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote:
nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.

Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


In this case f*k the instructions.

Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together clockwise
with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the linemans
pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you have a
connection. Not instructions from the marketing department.

Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from the
above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This only
meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not that if a
wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the
wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force.


Not that if a
wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.



I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and
simply twist on a good quality wirenut.


Great.

Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're
doing it for someone else, do it to code.

For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious
being only a wanna-be myself.




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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus:

George wrote in
:

On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote:

Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together
clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the
linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you
have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing
department.

Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from
the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This
only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not
that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the
wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force.


Not that if a
wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and
simply twist on a good quality wirenut.


Great.

Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're
doing it for someone else, do it to code.

For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious
being only a wanna-be myself.


What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what.
At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes.

What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes
to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because
when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I
don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I
know that it's on good and tight.

Pliers? Nah.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)
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Default Field report on electrical push connectors

On Apr 20, 7:52*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus:



George wrote in
:


On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote:


Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together
clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the
linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you
have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing
department.


Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from
the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This
only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not
that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the
wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force.


Not that if a
wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and
simply twist on a good quality wirenut.


Great.


Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're
doing it for someone else, do it to code.


For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious
being only a wanna-be myself.


What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what.
At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes.

What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes
to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because
when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I
don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I
know that it's on good and tight.


Pliers? Nah.

--


The bottom line with a wirenut is you CANNOT know how well you did
it. You can't see the connection. It might be perfectly twisted, it
might have broken wires, one strand may have slipped and be barely
touching. That's why they are illegal in Europe (replaced by
chocolate blocks.)

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On Apr 20, 9:23*pm, "
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:58:11 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 4/20/2011 7:06 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:16:08 +0000 (UTC), *wrote:


*wrote :


On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry * wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, * wrote:


nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.


The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut. Take
a look inside next time you use one.


Sure, but Bob was talking about twisting *before* placing the wire nut on the
connection.


Which again is _NOT_ a reqm't of any manufacturer -- I posted links to
the app notes only a week or so ago. *It's allowable, but not necessary
for installation in accordance w/ intended use.


I'm not an electrician, but I'd think you would *only* install them the way
they're rated to be installed, i.e. per manufacturer's instructions.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


This came up on holmes inspection show. The electrician remarked he
always twists the wires, to prevent poor connections and outages.

I use wire nuts on the machines I service for a living nearly all
stranded wires, I twist then install a wirenut
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On Apr 20, 7:52*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what.
At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes.


I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure it says
something along the lines of things must be installed in accordance
with the manufacturer's instructions... (Generally, not specifically
for wire nuts.)
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On 4/20/2011 9:09 PM, TimR wrote:
On Apr 20, 7:52 pm, David wrote:
On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus:



wrote in
:


On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote:


Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together
clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the
linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you
have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing
department.


Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from
the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This
only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not
that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove the
wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force.


Not that if a
wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.


I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel and
simply twist on a good quality wirenut.


Great.


Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're
doing it for someone else, do it to code.


For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious
being only a wanna-be myself.


What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's what.
At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes.

What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it comes
to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way). Because
when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted together. I
don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires themselves. Then I
know that it's on good and tight.


Pliers? Nah.

--


The bottom line with a wirenut is you CANNOT know how well you did
it. You can't see the connection. It might be perfectly twisted, it
might have broken wires, one strand may have slipped and be barely
touching. That's why they are illegal in Europe (replaced by
chocolate blocks.)


That is why I pull-test every wirenut connection I make. Tug like hell
on the nut, holding each feed wire in turn. Haven't had one fail yet.
Previous owner here never mastered that, and I had several wirenuts flee
into dark corners when I looked at them wrong.

--
aem sends...
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David Nebenzahl wrote in
s.com:

On 4/20/2011 4:01 PM Red Green spake thus:

George wrote in
:

On 4/20/2011 11:46 AM, Red Green wrote:

Remove more insulation than required. Twist them together
clockwise with linemans pliers. Cut off to proper length with the
linemans pliers. All are proper and same length. Wirenut. Now you
have a connection. Not instructions from the marketing
department.

Only my unprofessional opinion but when you remove a wirenut from
the above connection method, wires should not fall apart. This
only meaning the completed connection was safe and reliable. Not
that if a wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.

But what would the problem be if they "fall apart" when you remove
the wirenut? The wirenut is providing the holding force.


Not that if a
wire nut were to fall off the twisting was a backup.

I have never seen a failure when you hold all of the ends parallel
and simply twist on a good quality wirenut.


Great.

Bottom line is do it any way you want when you're doing it. If you're
doing it for someone else, do it to code.

For those familiar with it, what does the NEC say? I'm really curious
being only a wanna-be myself.


What does the NEC say? about attaching wire nuts? Nothing, that's
what.


Otay! Duct tape it is!

At least so far as any technique for putting them on goes.

What I'm noticing is that everyone here seems to be a wimp when it
comes to twisting wires together (and I mean that in the nicest way).
Because when I twist on a wire nut, the wires end up getting twisted
together. I don't mean just the strands, but the insulated wires
themselves. Then I know that it's on good and tight.


Yep. Have seen it that way when removing something and made it that way
when assembling.


Pliers? Nah.



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Default Field report on electrical push connectors


"TimR" wrote in message
...
On Apr 20, 7:16 am, Tegger wrote:
George wrote :

On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, wrote:


nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.


The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut.
Take
a look inside next time you use one.

--
Tegger


I always twist stranded, never twist solid.

The wire nut is going to twist the stranded anyway, but if you twist
first you can be sure it doesn't kink or lose a strand.

The wire nut is not going the twist the solid anyway and if you twist
first you get a looser connection.

Neither is anywhere near as reliable or safe as a chocolate block.


I twist stranded not solid wire also. Any time that I have tried to twist
solid wires together, the act of cutting the twisted lump down to the 3/8"
to 7/16" length to fit into a wire nut with no bare copper showing, causes
the twisted wires to fall apart. I find that keeping the stripped wires
parallel and screwing down the nut real tight works well. I have tried the
wire nuts that have a brass ring with a set screw can work well, but
sometimes the screw will clamp down real tight, but the stresses of stuffing
the wires into the box will re-arrange some wires and result in a loose fit,
needing the set screw to be tightened further. But since the wires are now
in the box with the plastic cap covering the set screw, it may be impossible
to tell if it is loose unless a wire falls out or the connection arcs.




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On Apr 22, 12:19*pm, "EXT" wrote:
"TimR" wrote in message

...





On Apr 20, 7:16 am, Tegger wrote:
George wrote :


On 4/20/2011 5:53 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 20, 2:39 am, Larry *wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, *wrote:


nuts. With only wire strippers to handle, no fumbling with extra
pliers was nice.


Um... What are you using pliers for? Might want to check the
instructions on the box of wire nuts...


you should always twist wires together before twisting on wire nuts,
otherwise a loose wire nut will cause a outage and possibly a over
heated connection


But no manufacturers app notes even suggest twisting the wires.


The wires twist together automatically when you install the wire nut.
Take
a look inside next time you use one.


--
Tegger


I always twist stranded, never twist solid.


The wire nut is going to twist the stranded anyway, but if you twist
first you can be sure it doesn't kink or lose a strand.


The wire nut is not going the twist the solid anyway and if you twist
first you get a looser connection.


Neither is anywhere near as reliable or safe as a chocolate block.


I twist stranded not solid wire also. Any time that I have tried to twist
solid wires together, the act of cutting the twisted lump down to the 3/8"
to 7/16" length to fit into a wire nut with no bare copper showing, causes
the twisted wires to fall apart. I find that keeping the stripped wires
parallel and screwing down the nut real tight works well. I have tried the
wire nuts that have a brass ring with a set screw can work well, but
sometimes the screw will clamp down real tight, but the stresses of stuffing
the wires into the box will re-arrange some wires and result in a loose fit,
needing the set screw to be tightened further. But since the wires are now
in the box with the plastic cap covering the set screw, it may be impossible
to tell if it is loose unless a wire falls out or the connection arcs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


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