Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
From Popular Mechanics:
"Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
Saw them in Home Depot this week. Is there any advantage,
compared to run the engine dry and store it dry? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "HeyBub" wrote in message m... From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
UPDATE: No-alci fuel for small engines
HeyBub wrote:
From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest ---- According to various sources (found on the internet so you can be assured they're true), you can remove the ethanol from station-bought gas: * In a clear container (i.e., water jug), mix your commercial gasoline with water. Let the mixture sit overnight. * The water, with the absorbed ethatnol, will be at the bottom with a clear line of demarcation. * Decant the water. Since ethanol is added to boost the octane level of the resulting mixture, you should probably start with high-octane gas to achieve a usable octane level. |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
UPDATE: No-alci fuel for small engines
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:04:43 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote: HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest ---- According to various sources (found on the internet so you can be assured they're true), you can remove the ethanol from station-bought gas: * In a clear container (i.e., water jug), mix your commercial gasoline with water. Let the mixture sit overnight. * The water, with the absorbed ethatnol, will be at the bottom with a clear line of demarcation. * Decant the water. Since ethanol is added to boost the octane level of the resulting mixture, you should probably start with high-octane gas to achieve a usable octane level. My chainsaw and string trimmer have been running on 100ll AvGas for the last 2 years. (left over from friend's ultralight plane -40:1 premix. My lawn mower and snow blower run on Shell Ultra - which in Canada is still ethanol free. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
UPDATE: No-alci fuel for small engines
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:04:43 -0500, HeyBub wrote:
HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest ---- According to various sources (found on the internet so you can be assured they're true), you can remove the ethanol from station-bought gas: * In a clear container (i.e., water jug), mix your commercial gasoline with water. Let the mixture sit overnight. * The water, with the absorbed ethatnol, will be at the bottom with a clear line of demarcation. * Decant the water. Since ethanol is added to boost the octane level of the resulting mixture, you should probably start with high-octane gas to achieve a usable octane level. No, ethanol is added in Missouri as a mandate as gasoline hits a certain selling point. It has nothing to do with octane levels, but government stupidity. |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 18, 7:44*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Saw them in Home Depot this week. Is there any advantage, compared to run the engine dry and store it dry? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "HeyBub" wrote in message m... From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Its far better to run it dry and not to keep old gas for more than a few months even in a can. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
UPDATE: No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 18, 8:04*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... ---- According to various sources (found on the internet so you can be assured they're true), you can remove the ethanol from station-bought gas: * In a clear container (i.e., water jug), mix your commercial gasoline with water. Let the mixture sit overnight. * The water, with the absorbed ethatnol, will be at the bottom with a clear line of demarcation. * Decant the water. Since ethanol is added to boost the octane level of the resulting mixture, you should probably start with high-octane gas to achieve a usable octane level. And then you can Drink it! |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote:
From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 8:42*am, Hell Toupee wrote:
On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
Hell Toupee wrote:
Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. I wonder how much advertising revenue Popular Advertising, I mean Popular Mechanics, is getting from the "gas in a can" company. Jon |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
"Hell Toupee" wrote in message ... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- Sure, but some folks so enjoy those urban legends, why spoil their fun? |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On 4/18/2011 8:44 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Saw them in Home Depot this week. Is there any advantage, compared to run the engine dry and store it dry? I run them dry. I had trouble with my snow thrower last year and read the fine print in the manual not to use gas with ethanol. I would imagine that newly manufactured stuff takes into consideration the governments ethanol folly. |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 1:13*pm, Frank wrote:
On 4/18/2011 8:44 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Saw them in Home Depot this week. Is there any advantage, compared to run the engine dry and store it dry? I run them dry. *I had trouble with my snow thrower last year and read the fine print in the manual not to use gas with ethanol. *I would imagine that newly manufactured stuff takes into consideration the governments ethanol folly. A Chinese manual no doubt, all i can get is ethanol for about 35 years. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 12:31*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote: Hell Toupee wrote: Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. I wonder how much advertising revenue Popular Advertising, I mean Popular Mechanics, is getting from the "gas in a can" company. Jon If it sits on the shelf to long, and at that price, its crap in a can. |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
Hell Toupee wrote:
On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. If it don't frig up your car or truck or motorcycle why should it frig up your lawn mower or leaf blower? I've had no trouble. I don't drain nothing, starts every year just fine. -- If your doctor isn't taking new patients, he ain't curing any of them. |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 4:04*pm, LSMFT wrote:
Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq.... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. If it don't frig up your car or truck or motorcycle why should it frig up your lawn mower or leaf blower? I've had no trouble. I don't drain nothing, starts every year just fine. -- If your doctor isn't taking new patients, he ain't curing any of them. Because it can evarporate in the carb leaving behind a varnish coating, in your car you drive it, and fuel injection is sealed. |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:42:10 -0500, Hell Toupee
wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. NOT TRUE. Just because you have E10 does not mean you WILL have problems - in a very dry atmosphere you can often get away with it - and plastic tanks are less likely to get condensation than metal tanks - ditto for full vs half empty., and non-vented tanks (like on my chain-saw). However, when ethanol fuel is combined with high humidity and extreme temp changes, water DOES get absorbed by the ethanol, and itf that moisture level gets high enough, and then the temperature drops, for instance, you WILL get phase separation, where the alky and water drop out of the fuel mix - and at higher power settingsparicularly on 2 stroke engines, the engine goes lean (and loses lubrication as well) when that slug of watered down hooch hits theengine - and engine damage occurs. That is ONE documented problem with hooch-gas. The SECOND problem is when that watered down hooch sits in the carb and corodes all the copper-containing parts. That's anything brass, as well as a lot of alloy parts. Known as the "greenies", this corrosion product plugs up jets and generally just fouls up everything it gets close too. The THIRD problem is the hooch is an oxidizer. That's why it is added to the fuel - to make the fuel burn "cleaner" But over time, the oxidizer oxidizes the fuel without burning it - forming a "varnish" that also changes the calibration of the carb by half plugging the jets, and makes float valves stick, damage diphragms in diaphragm carbs and pulse pumps. That's only THREE reasons Hooch-Gas is not good for (particularly) small engines. There are others, but these are the main 3 - and NONE of them are "old wives tales" or "Urban Legends", OR inconsequential. |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:10:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 19, 8:42Â*am, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: Â*From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? I'll take issue with a couple things. First of all, in the T-Bird it wasn't the octane of the Alky that killed the engine. The octane of the fuel itself was low ("regular" grade euro gas in the seventies was something like 85 octane by our RM/2 rating) and the 390 neaded a minimum 89. They may have also had water in the gas. Adding too much alky to the fuel mix causes engine damage because it LEANS THE MIXTURE. If the carb calibration is not changed to handle the fuel, alky leans the mixture by half. So, 10% alky leans the mixture by 5%, 20% alky by 10%, etc. A lean mixture under power takes out pistons. Also, although alky DOES raise the octane, it is NOT because it"takes a higher temperature to ignite" Octane rating is a measurement of resistance to DETONATION, which is uncontrolled burning of disassociated "end gasses" in the combustion chamber. As for E85 in motor vehicles, dang right there are issues if the engine is not "flex fuel" or "E85" calibrated. In fuel injected engines Alky is LESS of a problem than in carbureted engines, due in large part to the electronic controls that allow the engine to recalibrate itself to provide the right mixture and the right ignition timing to protect itself. And YES, OLD gas is most often the issue - but OLD gas with alky is not as old, chronologically, as old gas without. (alky fuel does not store well) |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
LSMFT wrote:
Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. If it don't frig up your car or truck or motorcycle why should it frig up your lawn mower or leaf blower? I've had no trouble. I don't drain nothing, starts every year just fine. As the article said, automobiles do not use plastic or rubber parts sensitive to alcohol and are equipped with computers that drive the fuel injectors. |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 19, 12:31Â*pm, "Jon Danniken" wrote: Hell Toupee wrote: Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. I wonder how much advertising revenue Popular Advertising, I mean Popular Mechanics, is getting from the "gas in a can" company. Jon If it sits on the shelf to long, and at that price, its crap in a can. AvGas is a sealed can is still AvGas after 5 years. Regular gasoline in a sealed can would be reasonable too, but I wouldn't bet on gasahol. There is also "TANK STETCHER" you can buy in a sealed can, that you pour into your tank when you run out of gasoline to get you off the highway and hopefully to a gas station. It has something like a 5 year shelf life - but you need to use it while the engine is still warm - you could have problems restarting a cold engine because it's vapour pressure and volatility is quite low. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
-- If your doctor isn't taking new patients, he ain't curing any of them. If your doctor IS taking new patients, maybe the old ones are dead? Mark |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
UPDATE: No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 18, 8:04*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
snip According to various sources (found on the internet so you can be assured they're true), you can remove the ethanol from station-bought gas: * In a clear container (i.e., water jug), mix your commercial gasoline with water. Let the mixture sit overnight. * The water, with the absorbed ethatnol, will be at the bottom with a clear line of demarcation. * Decant the water. snip Since the water /ethanol is on the bottom, better to decant the gasoline on top, right? Joe |
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
UPDATE: No-alci fuel for small engines
Joe wrote:
On Apr 18, 8:04 pm, "HeyBub" wrote: snip According to various sources (found on the internet so you can be assured they're true), you can remove the ethanol from station-bought gas: * In a clear container (i.e., water jug), mix your commercial gasoline with water. Let the mixture sit overnight. * The water, with the absorbed ethatnol, will be at the bottom with a clear line of demarcation. * Decant the water. snip Since the water /ethanol is on the bottom, better to decant the gasoline on top, right? Er, yeah. |
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 8:04*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:42:10 -0500, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq.... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. NOT TRUE. Just because you have E10 does not mean you WILL have problems - in a very dry atmosphere you can often get away with it - and plastic tanks are less likely to get condensation than metal tanks - ditto for full vs half empty., and non-vented tanks (like on my chain-saw). However, when ethanol fuel is combined with high humidity and extreme temp changes, water DOES get absorbed by the ethanol, and itf that moisture level gets high enough, and then the temperature drops, for instance, you WILL get phase separation, where the alky and water drop out of the fuel mix - and at higher power settingsparicularly on 2 stroke engines, the engine goes lean (and loses lubrication as well) when that slug of watered down hooch hits theengine - and engine damage occurs. That is ONE documented problem with hooch-gas. The SECOND problem is when that watered down hooch sits in the carb and corodes all the copper-containing parts. That's anything brass, as well as a lot of alloy parts. *Known as the "greenies", this corrosion product plugs up jets and generally just fouls up everything it gets close too. *The THIRD problem is the hooch is an oxidizer. That's why it is added to the fuel - to make the fuel burn "cleaner" But over time, the oxidizer oxidizes the fuel without burning it - forming a "varnish" that also changes the calibration of the carb by half plugging the jets, and makes float valves stick, damage diphragms in diaphragm carbs and pulse pumps. That's only THREE reasons Hooch-Gas is not good for (particularly) small engines. There are others, but these are the main 3 - and NONE of them are "old wives tales" or "Urban Legends", OR inconsequential.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I agree. First, Popular Mechanics does a pretty good job vetting urban legends from fact. Second, there have been plenty of other stories done, with interviews of guys who own repair shops, that have reported similar findings. Does it mean that every small engine will have problems or behave the same? No. Personally, I've had mixed results. My lawn mower, leaf blower, edger, and chain saw have been fine. However, my Tecumseh snowblower carb, for some reason, gets fouled up within a couple months max. I've had it be fine at the start of the winter when tested, then fail to start because of the carb a month and a half later. And that is with gas stabilizer added. Yet that same gas can be used in the other engines, left in them for 3X as long, with no problems. So, I'd say it depends. And I'd tend to believe repair shops, who have far more experience with this than we do. |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 7:04*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:42:10 -0500, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq.... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. NOT TRUE. Just because you have E10 does not mean you WILL have problems - in a very dry atmosphere you can often get away with it - and plastic tanks are less likely to get condensation than metal tanks - ditto for full vs half empty., and non-vented tanks (like on my chain-saw). However, when ethanol fuel is combined with high humidity and extreme temp changes, water DOES get absorbed by the ethanol, and itf that moisture level gets high enough, and then the temperature drops, for instance, you WILL get phase separation, where the alky and water drop out of the fuel mix - and at higher power settingsparicularly on 2 stroke engines, the engine goes lean (and loses lubrication as well) when that slug of watered down hooch hits theengine - and engine damage occurs. That is ONE documented problem with hooch-gas. The SECOND problem is when that watered down hooch sits in the carb and corodes all the copper-containing parts. That's anything brass, as well as a lot of alloy parts. *Known as the "greenies", this corrosion product plugs up jets and generally just fouls up everything it gets close too. *The THIRD problem is the hooch is an oxidizer. That's why it is added to the fuel - to make the fuel burn "cleaner" But over time, the oxidizer oxidizes the fuel without burning it - forming a "varnish" that also changes the calibration of the carb by half plugging the jets, and makes float valves stick, damage diphragms in diaphragm carbs and pulse pumps. That's only THREE reasons Hooch-Gas is not good for (particularly) small engines. There are others, but these are the main 3 - and NONE of them are "old wives tales" or "Urban Legends", OR inconsequential. Gee 25 years using ethanol and I have no complaints, I just dont keep it more than 4-6 months in humid temps. Alcohol is a solvent that reduces varnishing, I dont buy your oxidation theory- urban legand crap. You are not going to get seperation if you use the gas instead of letting it sit a few years, more urban legend crap. Water got absorbed in regular gas to, or did you forget "water on the bottom of the tank' it happens from condensation forming from changes in the weather, google it. Alcohol does alow it to be burnt off instead of sitting in the tank, a true benefit. So you posted 3 versions for excuses of "its bad gas" vs " I was an idiot to keep it for several years and why isnt it good anymore, it must be the alcohol. Bottom line, use your gas in a few months, gas by itself goes stale, even without alcohol, or the effects weather can have to increase moisture content. And your alternative to ethanol, you dont have one unless you waste your time. |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 7:18*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:10:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 8:42*am, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq.... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? I'll take issue with a couple things. First of all, in the T-Bird it wasn't the octane of the Alky that killed the engine. The octane of the fuel itself was low ("regular" grade euro gas in the seventies was something like 85 octane by our RM/2 rating) and the 390 neaded a minimum 89. They may have also had water in the gas. Adding too much alky to the fuel mix causes engine damage because it LEANS THE MIXTURE. If the carb calibration is not changed to handle the fuel, alky leans the mixture by half. So, 10% alky leans the mixture by 5%, 20% alky by 10%, etc. A lean mixture under power takes out pistons. Also, although alky DOES raise the octane, it is NOT because it"takes a higher temperature to ignite" *Octane rating is a measurement of resistance to DETONATION, which is uncontrolled burning of disassociated "end gasses" in the combustion chamber. As for E85 in motor vehicles, dang right there are issues if the engine is not "flex fuel" or "E85" calibrated. In fuel injected engines Alky is LESS of a problem than in carbureted engines, due in large part to the electronic controls that allow the engine to recalibrate itself to provide the right mixture and the right ignition timing to protect itself. And YES, OLD gas is most often the issue - but OLD gas with alky is not as old, chronologically, as old gas without. (alky fuel does not store well) You are wrong about the temp , you are guessing it was too hot, the plugs read correctly and did not burn hot. Knocking was present and that is proven fact to blow pistons. 2, I got 110000 and when I blew it I was beating the crap out of it in the country with that 4 barrel wide open, that day I would have ruined any motor. Yes it ignites at a higher temp- increases octane rating. And bottom line it ran 100% better with alcohol and kept the carb clean as it is a high solvent, and never any gas issues at even -25f. Alcohol, if you cant drink anymore, your car can finish the bottle. |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 19, 7:39*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 12:31*pm, "Jon Danniken" wrote: Hell Toupee wrote: Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. I wonder how much advertising revenue Popular Advertising, I mean Popular Mechanics, is getting from the "gas in a can" company. Jon If it sits on the shelf to long, and at that price, its crap in a can. AvGas is a sealed can is still AvGas after 5 years. Regular gasoline in a sealed can would be reasonable too, but I wouldn't bet on gasahol. There is also "TANK STETCHER" you can buy in a sealed can, that you pour into your tank when you run out of gasoline to get you off the highway and hopefully to a gas station. It has something like a 5 year shelf life - but you need to use it while the engine is still warm - you could have problems restarting a cold engine because it's vapour pressure and volatility is quite low. 5 years with Zero change in chemistry? Not in plastic as chemicals in gas permeate plastic, in metal but there is the risk of the seal. |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:21:48 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 19, 7:04Â*pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:42:10 -0500, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: Â*From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. NOT TRUE. Just because you have E10 does not mean you WILL have problems - in a very dry atmosphere you can often get away with it - and plastic tanks are less likely to get condensation than metal tanks - ditto for full vs half empty., and non-vented tanks (like on my chain-saw). However, when ethanol fuel is combined with high humidity and extreme temp changes, water DOES get absorbed by the ethanol, and itf that moisture level gets high enough, and then the temperature drops, for instance, you WILL get phase separation, where the alky and water drop out of the fuel mix - and at higher power settingsparicularly on 2 stroke engines, the engine goes lean (and loses lubrication as well) when that slug of watered down hooch hits theengine - and engine damage occurs. That is ONE documented problem with hooch-gas. The SECOND problem is when that watered down hooch sits in the carb and corodes all the copper-containing parts. That's anything brass, as well as a lot of alloy parts. Â*Known as the "greenies", this corrosion product plugs up jets and generally just fouls up everything it gets close too. Â*The THIRD problem is the hooch is an oxidizer. That's why it is added to the fuel - to make the fuel burn "cleaner" But over time, the oxidizer oxidizes the fuel without burning it - forming a "varnish" that also changes the calibration of the carb by half plugging the jets, and makes float valves stick, damage diphragms in diaphragm carbs and pulse pumps. That's only THREE reasons Hooch-Gas is not good for (particularly) small engines. There are others, but these are the main 3 - and NONE of them are "old wives tales" or "Urban Legends", OR inconsequential. Gee 25 years using ethanol and I have no complaints, I just dont keep it more than 4-6 months in humid temps. Alcohol is a solvent that reduces varnishing, I dont buy your oxidation theory- urban legand crap. You are not going to get seperation if you use the gas instead of letting it sit a few years, more urban legend crap. Water got absorbed in regular gas to, or did you forget "water on the bottom of the tank' it happens from condensation forming from changes in the weather, google it. Alcohol does alow it to be burnt off instead of sitting in the tank, a true benefit. So you posted 3 versions for excuses of "its bad gas" vs " I was an idiot to keep it for several years and why isnt it good anymore, it must be the alcohol. Bottom line, use your gas in a few months, gas by itself goes stale, even without alcohol, or the effects weather can have to increase moisture content. And your alternative to ethanol, you dont have one unless you waste your time. You don't have to buy my theory, and 4 to 6 months CAN be too long to keep fuel. Water is not "absorbed" in straight gas. Yes, you got water in the tank, but it was separated from the gasoline. It DOES cause problems, whether you have experienced it or believe it, or not. As a mechanic I see it happen. |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:33:44 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 19, 7:18Â*pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:10:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 8:42Â*am, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: Â*From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? I'll take issue with a couple things. First of all, in the T-Bird it wasn't the octane of the Alky that killed the engine. The octane of the fuel itself was low ("regular" grade euro gas in the seventies was something like 85 octane by our RM/2 rating) and the 390 neaded a minimum 89. They may have also had water in the gas. Adding too much alky to the fuel mix causes engine damage because it LEANS THE MIXTURE. If the carb calibration is not changed to handle the fuel, alky leans the mixture by half. So, 10% alky leans the mixture by 5%, 20% alky by 10%, etc. A lean mixture under power takes out pistons. Also, although alky DOES raise the octane, it is NOT because it"takes a higher temperature to ignite" Â*Octane rating is a measurement of resistance to DETONATION, which is uncontrolled burning of disassociated "end gasses" in the combustion chamber. As for E85 in motor vehicles, dang right there are issues if the engine is not "flex fuel" or "E85" calibrated. In fuel injected engines Alky is LESS of a problem than in carbureted engines, due in large part to the electronic controls that allow the engine to recalibrate itself to provide the right mixture and the right ignition timing to protect itself. And YES, OLD gas is most often the issue - but OLD gas with alky is not as old, chronologically, as old gas without. (alky fuel does not store well) You are wrong about the temp , you are guessing it was too hot, the plugs read correctly and did not burn hot. Whwere did I say it ran too hot? I didn't. I said it ran too LEAN. Lean mixtures detonate more readilly than rich mixtures. Knocking was present and that is proven fact to blow pistons. 2, I got 110000 and when I blew it I was beating the crap out of it in the country with that 4 barrel wide open, that day I would have ruined any motor. Yes it ignites at a higher temp- increases octane rating. You do NOT understand OCTANE, or detonation. And bottom line it ran 100% better with alcohol and kept the carb clean as it is a high solvent, and never any gas issues at even -25f. Alcohol, if you cant drink anymore, your car can finish the bottle. If the gas was bad and had water in it, the alky WOULD make it run better. But it CAN cause damage if too much is added. |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 20, 5:10*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:33:44 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 7:18*pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:10:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 8:42*am, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? I'll take issue with a couple things. First of all, in the T-Bird it wasn't the octane of the Alky that killed the engine. The octane of the fuel itself was low ("regular" grade euro gas in the seventies was something like 85 octane by our RM/2 rating) and the 390 neaded a minimum 89. They may have also had water in the gas. Adding too much alky to the fuel mix causes engine damage because it LEANS THE MIXTURE. If the carb calibration is not changed to handle the fuel, alky leans the mixture by half. So, 10% alky leans the mixture by 5%, 20% alky by 10%, etc. A lean mixture under power takes out pistons. Also, although alky DOES raise the octane, it is NOT because it"takes a higher temperature to ignite" *Octane rating is a measurement of resistance to DETONATION, which is uncontrolled burning of disassociated "end gasses" in the combustion chamber. As for E85 in motor vehicles, dang right there are issues if the engine is not "flex fuel" or "E85" calibrated. In fuel injected engines Alky is LESS of a problem than in carbureted engines, due in large part to the electronic controls that allow the engine to recalibrate itself to provide the right mixture and the right ignition timing to protect itself. And YES, OLD gas is most often the issue - but OLD gas with alky is not as old, chronologically, as old gas without. (alky fuel does not store well) You are wrong about the temp , you are guessing it was too hot, the plugs read correctly and did not burn hot. Whwere did I say it ran too hot? I didn't. I said it ran too LEAN. Lean mixtures detonate more readilly than rich mixtures. Knocking was present and that is proven fact to blow pistons. 2, I got 110000 and when I blew it I was beating the crap out of it in the country *with that 4 barrel wide open, that day I would have ruined any motor. Yes it ignites at a higher temp- increases octane rating. You do NOT understand OCTANE, or detonation. And bottom line it ran 100% better with alcohol and kept the carb clean as it is a high solvent, and never any gas issues at even -25f. Alcohol, if you cant drink anymore, your car can finish the bottle. If the gas was bad and had water in it, the alky WOULD make it run better. But it CAN cause damage if too much is added. If it ran lean, it would be running too hot. If it ran lean the plug temperature would have shown it burning white. Only once did I add 5% alcohol by volume, the day it didnt go up a grade, its was always normaly 1.25% or so, a Liter per 20 gallons, and that liter made a dramatic difference in Europes crap gas. Knocking beat it up, and when I blew it the plugs-cilinders were running way under normal temp from lower compression, and probably in need of timing, it was an old car using oil. The amount of alcohol I added and the type of city driving it was getting I cant see 1.25% of alcohol affecting it negatively, but in performance it was great. . |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 20, 5:06*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:21:48 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 7:04*pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:42:10 -0500, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. NOT TRUE. Just because you have E10 does not mean you WILL have problems - in a very dry atmosphere you can often get away with it - and plastic tanks are less likely to get condensation than metal tanks - ditto for full vs half empty., and non-vented tanks (like on my chain-saw). However, when ethanol fuel is combined with high humidity and extreme temp changes, water DOES get absorbed by the ethanol, and itf that moisture level gets high enough, and then the temperature drops, for instance, you WILL get phase separation, where the alky and water drop out of the fuel mix - and at higher power settingsparicularly on 2 stroke engines, the engine goes lean (and loses lubrication as well) when that slug of watered down hooch hits theengine - and engine damage occurs. That is ONE documented problem with hooch-gas. The SECOND problem is when that watered down hooch sits in the carb and corodes all the copper-containing parts. That's anything brass, as well as a lot of alloy parts. *Known as the "greenies", this corrosion product plugs up jets and generally just fouls up everything it gets close too. *The THIRD problem is the hooch is an oxidizer. That's why it is added to the fuel - to make the fuel burn "cleaner" But over time, the oxidizer oxidizes the fuel without burning it - forming a "varnish" that also changes the calibration of the carb by half plugging the jets, and makes float valves stick, damage diphragms in diaphragm carbs and pulse pumps. That's only THREE reasons Hooch-Gas is not good for (particularly) small engines. There are others, but these are the main 3 - and NONE of them are "old wives tales" or "Urban Legends", OR inconsequential. Gee 25 years using ethanol and I have no complaints, I just dont keep it more than 4-6 months in humid temps. Alcohol is a solvent that reduces varnishing, I dont buy your oxidation theory- urban legand crap. You are not going to get seperation if you use the gas instead of letting it sit a few years, more urban legend crap. Water got absorbed in regular gas to, or did you forget "water on the bottom of the tank' it happens from condensation forming from changes in the weather, google it. Alcohol does alow it to be burnt off instead of sitting in the tank, a true benefit. So you posted 3 versions for excuses of "its bad gas" vs " I was an idiot to keep it for several years and why isnt it good anymore, it must be the alcohol. Bottom line, use your gas in a few months, gas by itself goes stale, even without alcohol, or the effects weather can have to increase moisture content. And your alternative to ethanol, you dont have one unless you waste your time. * You don't have to buy my theory, and 4 to 6 months CAN be too long to keep fuel. Water is not "absorbed" in straight gas. Yes, you got water in the tank, but it was separated from the gasoline. It DOES cause problems, whether you have experienced it or believe it, or not. As a mechanic I see it happen. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Apr 21, 10:08*am, ransley wrote:
On Apr 20, 5:10*pm, wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:33:44 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 7:18*pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:10:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 8:42*am, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: *From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? I'll take issue with a couple things. First of all, in the T-Bird it wasn't the octane of the Alky that killed the engine. The octane of the fuel itself was low ("regular" grade euro gas in the seventies was something like 85 octane by our RM/2 rating) and the 390 neaded a minimum 89. They may have also had water in the gas. Adding too much alky to the fuel mix causes engine damage because it LEANS THE MIXTURE. If the carb calibration is not changed to handle the fuel, alky leans the mixture by half. So, 10% alky leans the mixture by 5%, 20% alky by 10%, etc. A lean mixture under power takes out pistons. Also, although alky DOES raise the octane, it is NOT because it"takes a higher temperature to ignite" *Octane rating is a measurement of resistance to DETONATION, which is uncontrolled burning of disassociated "end gasses" in the combustion chamber. As for E85 in motor vehicles, dang right there are issues if the engine is not "flex fuel" or "E85" calibrated. In fuel injected engines Alky is LESS of a problem than in carbureted engines, due in large part to the electronic controls that allow the engine to recalibrate itself to provide the right mixture and the right ignition timing to protect itself. And YES, OLD gas is most often the issue - but OLD gas with alky is not as old, chronologically, as old gas without. (alky fuel does not store well) You are wrong about the temp , you are guessing it was too hot, the plugs read correctly and did not burn hot. Whwere did I say it ran too hot? I didn't. I said it ran too LEAN. Lean mixtures detonate more readilly than rich mixtures. Knocking was present and that is proven fact to blow pistons. 2, I got 110000 and when I blew it I was beating the crap out of it in the country *with that 4 barrel wide open, that day I would have ruined any motor. Yes it ignites at a higher temp- increases octane rating. You do NOT understand OCTANE, or detonation. And bottom line it ran 100% better with alcohol and kept the carb clean as it is a high solvent, and never any gas issues at even -25f. Alcohol, if you cant drink anymore, your car can finish the bottle. If the gas was bad and had water in it, the alky WOULD make it run better. But it CAN cause damage if too much is added. If it ran lean, it would be running too hot. If it ran lean the plug temperature would have shown it burning white. Only once did I add 5% alcohol by volume, the day it didnt go up a grade, its was always normaly 1.25% or so, a Liter per 20 gallons, and that liter made a dramatic difference in Europes crap gas. Knocking beat it up, and when I blew it *the plugs-cilinders were running way under normal temp from lower compression, MAybe I'm confused here, but AFAIK, the compression ratio is determine by the engine parameters and is fixed. It doesn't vary by fuel used. Compression ratio is the volume of the cylinder with the piston fully down divided by the volume with it all the way up, no? What kind of fuel the engine can safely run on then depends on the compression ratio as well as fuel/air ratio, timing, etc. and probably in need of timing, it was an old car using oil. The amount of alcohol I added and the type of city driving it was getting I cant see 1.25% of alcohol affecting it negatively, but in performance it was great. .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 07:08:40 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 20, 5:10Â*pm, wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:33:44 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 7:18Â*pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:10:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 8:42Â*am, Hell Toupee wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: Â*From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. Right, in Chicago where I am i think in the late 70s, early 80s we had ethanol, all my motors last till the compression is shot, i get 15 or so years out of my 2 and 4 stroke and no lawn guy or motor repair service has ever said here to get real gas. Corrosion is old gas, and old gas causes other problems like Varnish. That line i read about blowing pistons is crap also since alcohol actualy raises compression because it take a higher temp to ignite. Bad gas old gas would be the factor, not alcohol. Just dont keep it around more than a few months, dump it in your car. E15 E20 in theory should be the same. Are there even issues with E85 in motor vehicles? I'll take issue with a couple things. First of all, in the T-Bird it wasn't the octane of the Alky that killed the engine. The octane of the fuel itself was low ("regular" grade euro gas in the seventies was something like 85 octane by our RM/2 rating) and the 390 neaded a minimum 89. They may have also had water in the gas. Adding too much alky to the fuel mix causes engine damage because it LEANS THE MIXTURE. If the carb calibration is not changed to handle the fuel, alky leans the mixture by half. So, 10% alky leans the mixture by 5%, 20% alky by 10%, etc. A lean mixture under power takes out pistons. Also, although alky DOES raise the octane, it is NOT because it"takes a higher temperature to ignite" Â*Octane rating is a measurement of resistance to DETONATION, which is uncontrolled burning of disassociated "end gasses" in the combustion chamber. As for E85 in motor vehicles, dang right there are issues if the engine is not "flex fuel" or "E85" calibrated. In fuel injected engines Alky is LESS of a problem than in carbureted engines, due in large part to the electronic controls that allow the engine to recalibrate itself to provide the right mixture and the right ignition timing to protect itself. And YES, OLD gas is most often the issue - but OLD gas with alky is not as old, chronologically, as old gas without. (alky fuel does not store well) You are wrong about the temp , you are guessing it was too hot, the plugs read correctly and did not burn hot. Whwere did I say it ran too hot? I didn't. I said it ran too LEAN. Lean mixtures detonate more readilly than rich mixtures. Knocking was present and that is proven fact to blow pistons. 2, I got 110000 and when I blew it I was beating the crap out of it in the country Â*with that 4 barrel wide open, that day I would have ruined any motor. Yes it ignites at a higher temp- increases octane rating. You do NOT understand OCTANE, or detonation. And bottom line it ran 100% better with alcohol and kept the carb clean as it is a high solvent, and never any gas issues at even -25f. Alcohol, if you cant drink anymore, your car can finish the bottle. If the gas was bad and had water in it, the alky WOULD make it run better. But it CAN cause damage if too much is added. If it ran lean, it would be running too hot. If it ran lean the plug temperature would have shown it burning white. Only once did I add 5% alcohol by volume, the day it didnt go up a grade, its was always normaly 1.25% or so, a Liter per 20 gallons, and that liter made a dramatic difference in Europes crap gas. Knocking beat it up, and when I blew it the plugs-cilinders were running way under normal temp from lower compression, and probably in need of timing, it was an old car using oil. The amount of alcohol I added and the type of city driving it was getting I cant see 1.25% of alcohol affecting it negatively, but in performance it was great. . And 1.25% alky did NOTHING for the octane rating. Absolutely NO noticeable change in octane - and virtually no MEASURABLE change.. The R+M/2 octane of anhydrous ethanol (200 proof) is 100.5. What goes in fuel is NOT anhydrous, and is denatured to boot - so MABEE 99 octane. Added to 87 octane regular at 50% would give you less than 10 points improvement, so at 5% perhaps 1 point. Being real optimistic, 1.25% MIGHT get you 0.2 points octain improvement. What it DOES do is lean the mixture, AND make it run COOLER. Most people do not understand the relationship between mixture, combustion temp, and engine temp. Engines RUN hot when too lean only under load - due to detonation disturbing the boundary layer that keeps the metal from absorbing all the heat of the "dragon's breath". A LEAN mixture (leaner than optimum, or stoich) actually produces LESS heat - and since Ethanol has only half the heat value of gasoline, it LEANS the mixture, and REDUCES the combustion temperature in the cyl.. I'm not saying the ethanol did not make it run better - but it wasn't the OCTANE change that did it. And if that 390 was as tired as you say, it likely didn't have enough compression to require high octane fuel anymore anyway. Also, with it burning oil it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an accurate "reading" of the plug as far as mixture OR temperature are concerned. You don't have to believe me. And I'm 90% sure you won't, but it is absolutely true. I've been servicing and tuning engines of all kinds for over 40 years, and running them on fuel a lot worse than Euro fuel for several of those years (you want CRAP gas, you want to try burning the stuff they sell in central Africa - Zambia was bad enough - the swill they sold in Zaire was even worse - and at $2.65 per liter back in the seventies!!! There's a reason Deisels are more common there (and in Europe) |
#34
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 07:24:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: If it ran lean, it would be running too hot. If it ran lean the plug temperature would have shown it burning white. Only once did I add 5% alcohol by volume, the day it didnt go up a grade, its was always normaly 1.25% or so, a Liter per 20 gallons, and that liter made a dramatic difference in Europes crap gas. Knocking beat it up, and when I blew it Â*the plugs-cilinders were running way under normal temp from lower compression, MAybe I'm confused here, but AFAIK, the compression ratio is determine by the engine parameters and is fixed. It doesn't vary by fuel used. Compression ratio is the volume of the cylinder with the piston fully down divided by the volume with it all the way up, no? What kind of fuel the engine can safely run on then depends on the compression ratio as well as fuel/air ratio, timing, etc. You've got it pretty close. "mechanical" or calculated compression ratio is the ratio of the volume of the cyl with the piston at bottom dead center to the volume of the cyl with the piston at top dead center (or swept volume plus clearance volume devided by clearance volume) ACTUAL or EFFECTIVE compression ratio is generally reduced somewhat by 2 factors. On old engines, cyl leakage reduces the effective ratio - and more at low RPM than at high RPM. Cam timing also reduces the effective compression ratio at low speeds - the hotter the cam (the more overlap) the lower the effective compression ratio, and the lower the compression pressure. Since detonation is always more of a problem under high cyl pressures, you usually experience it under load at lower RPM - where thankfully the effective CR is lower, - so you can have an engine with a hot cam and 15:1 CR that will run on 92 octane without a problem in a light car, and an engine otherwise the same, but with a mild cam and 12:1 compression in a pickup truck, that pings on 97 octane. Octane requirements also change with combustion chamber design. High turbulence chambers, with lots of "squish" and "quench" (which generally translates to higher CR as well, due to design restrictions) can require lower octane at higher compression ratios than open chambers. Oil consumption can RAISE the octane requirement of an engine - partly because the oil has a much lower octane, and partly because it SLOWS DOWN combustion. SLOWER combustion, NOT faster combustion, is most likely to cause detonation. The theory that faster burning fuels lower octane, and slower burning fuels have higher octane is a total missunderstanding of the detonatipon phenomenon, and octane equivalency of fuels. The longer the "end gasses" stay in the cyl, the more likely they are to detonate, because they absorb more heat and are subjected to the high pressures longer. If the fuel is fully burned, there are no "end gasses" to disassociate and detonate . The other reason older, worn out engines can require higher octane fuel is engine deposits. If lead, carbon, etc have built up in the engine combustion chamber, 2 things (can) happen. Compression ratio can increase because the clearance volume is reduced by the accumulation. This can cause, or at least contribute to, detonation. The carbon can glow hot, causing "pre-ignition" which is similar to, different than, often mistaken for, and can contribute to - DETONATION. Badly worn engines can also have narrow "valve margins", with almost knife edges on the valves - which can also overheat, causing pre-ignition. Just remember - preignition is NOT detonation, but preignition can contribute to detonation - and detonation can contribute to pre-ignition. Pre-ignition is independent of ignition timing, and happens BEFORE the spark. Detonation happens AFTER the spark. Pre-ignition is caused by (among other things) overheating, while detonation CAUSES overheating. If you have an engine instrumented with exhaust temperature guages and cyl head temp guages, exhaust temperature will DROP when either too rich or too lean, and the interesting thing is, when you have detonation, the Cyl head temperature will climb, while the exhaust temperature drops. This is a common way to determine if an aircraft engine has reached the point of "incipient detonation" - which means "get the throttle back NOW!!!!!" and probably in need of timing, it was an old car using oil. The amount of alcohol I added and the type of city driving it was getting I cant see 1.25% of alcohol affecting it negatively, but in performance it was great. .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
No-alci fuel for small engines
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 08:52:15 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote: On 4/20/2011 5:06 PM, wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:21:48 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote: On Apr 19, 7:04 pm, wrote: On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:42:10 -0500, Hell wrote: On 4/18/2011 7:38 PM, HeyBub wrote: From Popular Mechanics: "Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last." http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ols/can-boutiq... Urban legend. Those of us who live in states that have had 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel for decades now have not had any problems with it -- though for those who still insist, the gov't still allows gas stations to sell pure gasoline for small engines, boats, and classic cars. Just get it from the pump so labeled. My snowblower has only ever had the E10 ethanol gas used in it. Bought it in 1985. Still starts on the first pull. My brother-in-law uses the ethanol fuel mix in his chainsaws with the same result: there are no problems. These claims made the rounds back in the 80s when the fuel mixture changed. They've resurrected now because of the introduction of E15 and E20 ethanol mixtures into the marketplace. But the higher-percentage ethanol mixtures are rarely offered, so they're easy to avoid. As for the E10 mix, there's no issue with it. NOT TRUE. Just because you have E10 does not mean you WILL have problems - in a very dry atmosphere you can often get away with it - and plastic tanks are less likely to get condensation than metal tanks - ditto for full vs half empty., and non-vented tanks (like on my chain-saw). However, when ethanol fuel is combined with high humidity and extreme temp changes, water DOES get absorbed by the ethanol, and itf that moisture level gets high enough, and then the temperature drops, for instance, you WILL get phase separation, where the alky and water drop out of the fuel mix - and at higher power settingsparicularly on 2 stroke engines, the engine goes lean (and loses lubrication as well) when that slug of watered down hooch hits theengine - and engine damage occurs. That is ONE documented problem with hooch-gas. The SECOND problem is when that watered down hooch sits in the carb and corodes all the copper-containing parts. That's anything brass, as well as a lot of alloy parts. Known as the "greenies", this corrosion product plugs up jets and generally just fouls up everything it gets close too. The THIRD problem is the hooch is an oxidizer. That's why it is added to the fuel - to make the fuel burn "cleaner" But over time, the oxidizer oxidizes the fuel without burning it - forming a "varnish" that also changes the calibration of the carb by half plugging the jets, and makes float valves stick, damage diphragms in diaphragm carbs and pulse pumps. That's only THREE reasons Hooch-Gas is not good for (particularly) small engines. There are others, but these are the main 3 - and NONE of them are "old wives tales" or "Urban Legends", OR inconsequential. Gee 25 years using ethanol and I have no complaints, I just dont keep it more than 4-6 months in humid temps. Alcohol is a solvent that reduces varnishing, I dont buy your oxidation theory- urban legand crap. You are not going to get seperation if you use the gas instead of letting it sit a few years, more urban legend crap. Water got absorbed in regular gas to, or did you forget "water on the bottom of the tank' it happens from condensation forming from changes in the weather, google it. Alcohol does alow it to be burnt off instead of sitting in the tank, a true benefit. So you posted 3 versions for excuses of "its bad gas" vs " I was an idiot to keep it for several years and why isnt it good anymore, it must be the alcohol. Bottom line, use your gas in a few months, gas by itself goes stale, even without alcohol, or the effects weather can have to increase moisture content. And your alternative to ethanol, you dont have one unless you waste your time. You don't have to buy my theory, and 4 to 6 months CAN be too long to keep fuel. Water is not "absorbed" in straight gas. Yes, you got water in the tank, but it was separated from the gasoline. It DOES cause problems, whether you have experienced it or believe it, or not. As a mechanic I see it happen. With all this yapping about alcohol in fuel, I had a thought, what the heck are they doing in Brazil where many internal combustion engines are run on straight alcohol? What problems have they overcome over the years when their flex-fuel vehicles run E100 and E20 to E25 blends? o_O TDD They had their fun too, but their vehicles are ENGINEERED to use ethanol as a fuel - and the high ethanol blends (basically just heavily "denatured" ethanol) behaves much differently than, say E10 or E15. With 80% ethanol, and particularly in a warm climate, phase separation is not much of a problem. Their injectors are stainless steel, all fuel system components are designed to be highly corrosion resistant and ethanol resistant. They use different "O" rings and seal materials, and different fuel lines to withstand the chemical environment (teflon lined hoses come to mind) |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Berryman's fuel additive (well, it works in metal engines) | Metalworking | |||
OT - Charging circuit on small gas engines | Metalworking | |||
OT-gas additives for small engines? | Metalworking | |||
Catalytic Converters for Small engines | Home Repair |