A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 21:18:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .


That's a good article, and they mention jewelry, including rings.
I'll never forget what I saw in the safety class for new employees at
IH many years ago.
I was already real careful about sleeves and loose clothes from doing
car engine work.
At the IH safety class they showed 2 pictures I remember well.
A wedding banded finger with about 2 feet of tendons hanging from it.
It was on a drill press chuck. The ring fit right in a groove of the
chuck. Violated the "touching moving machinery" rule but it was the
ring that got the finger.
Second picture the finger looked like the first one.
Except it was about 8 feet off the ground on the back of a T-25 dozer,
stuck on some kind of groove up there.
Salesman had jumped down, but left the finger behind.
I put my wedding band in a drawer.

--Vic

On 4/15/2011 10:45 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 21:18:00 -0500,
wrote:

A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .


That's a good article, and they mention jewelry, including rings.
I'll never forget what I saw in the safety class for new employees at
IH many years ago.
I was already real careful about sleeves and loose clothes from doing
car engine work.
At the IH safety class they showed 2 pictures I remember well.
A wedding banded finger with about 2 feet of tendons hanging from it.
It was on a drill press chuck. The ring fit right in a groove of the
chuck. Violated the "touching moving machinery" rule but it was the
ring that got the finger.
Second picture the finger looked like the first one.
Except it was about 8 feet off the ground on the back of a T-25 dozer,
stuck on some kind of groove up there.
Salesman had jumped down, but left the finger behind.
I put my wedding band in a drawer.

--Vic

I grew up in construction, and my father beat those dangers into me and
all the rest of the workers. I've driven a desk for a couple decades
now, but I still can't bring myself to wear any jewelry or anything tied
around my neck. And when I pointed out the danger, they even switched
the standard-issue badge lanyards to the break-away style with the
velcro at the back of the neck. (I just clip mine to the front of my shirt)

--
aem sends...

On Apr 16, 3:18*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ts-tragic-deat...

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .

USA a hundred years behind normal workshop practices again?

This old hat. In the UK some one would end up in jail over this. the
company/university would be fined millions.
Employees that fail to observe safety proceedures are dismissed over
here.
Before working on machinery,all workers have to attend safety
lectures.
Large companies employ people whose entire job is about safety.

This is so elementary it's beyond belief.

On 4/16/2011 3:58 AM, harry wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:18 am, wrote:
A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ts-tragic-deat...

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .

USA a hundred years behind normal workshop practices again?

This old hat. In the UK some one would end up in jail over this. the
company/university would be fined millions.
Employees that fail to observe safety proceedures are dismissed over
here.
Before working on machinery,all workers have to attend safety
lectures.
Large companies employ people whose entire job is about safety.

This is so elementary it's beyond belief.

Not true.
When I went from university to industrial lab years ago there was a
quantum leap in safe practices.
I suspect this gap remains today.
Interesting that the universities which are liberal bastions are less
considerate of the welfare of their employees and students.

"harry" wrote

This old hat. In the UK some one would end up in jail over this. the
company/university would be fined millions.
Employees that fail to observe safety proceedures are dismissed over
here.
Before working on machinery,all workers have to attend safety
lectures.
Large companies employ people whose entire job is about safety.

This is so elementary it's beyond belief.

It happened at 2 AM, not the normal hours where there would be many people
around. She was a student, not an employee. She willingly ignored proper
safety precautions.

You are correct, she should be dismissed for failing to observe safety
procedures. Her carelessness should not result in a huge fines for the
university. You do have to take some responsibility for yourself.

On 4/16/2011 3:58 AM, harry wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:18 am, wrote:
A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ts-tragic-deat...

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .

USA a hundred years behind normal workshop practices again?

This old hat. In the UK some one would end up in jail over this. the
company/university would be fined millions.
Employees that fail to observe safety proceedures are dismissed over
here.
Before working on machinery,all workers have to attend safety
lectures.
Large companies employ people whose entire job is about safety.

This is so elementary it's beyond belief.

Yale must have some real morons in admin...turning students loose, ALONE
AND UNSUPERVISED, in a machine shop? Employees attend safety lectures?
Even the few kids nowadays with experience with power tools, a lathe
is a whole 'nother animal.

First day of auto mechanics class in high school- teacher told us how
fast it'd get hot if we accidentally shorted out the battery
terminals, and if it was from a watch we're wearing we'd burn the heck
out of our arms. So no watches in class.

Wedding rings were not an issue, at least not in my school.

On 4/16/2011 8:26 AM, Shaun Eli wrote:
First day of auto mechanics class in high school- teacher told us how
fast it'd get hot if we accidentally shorted out the battery
terminals, and if it was from a watch we're wearing we'd burn the heck
out of our arms. So no watches in class.

Wedding rings were not an issue, at least not in my school.

I worked quite a while in occupational health. The hazards include
folks who repeatedly take shortcuts. Those who splash on cologne after
lunch probably drank their lunch...more likely to get hurt. Two
departments I never wanted to hear from...but eventually did...were
punch press and the huge scrap paper baler. Big mean machines! One guy
lost an arm reaching into the baler to unjam it whilst it was running.
Dept. supervisor who lost a fingertip in p.p. One fella left an Allen
wrench in the lathe, turned it on, and shot the wrench right into his
safety glasses (which broke)...glass in eyes, small scratch on inside of
eyelid but no damage to his eye. Those who got the most of my sympathy
were polishers who lost heavy steel parts to the polishing belt and had
the part shot back at them at about 90 mph, below the waist.

wrote:

Yale must have some real morons in admin...turning students loose,
ALONE AND UNSUPERVISED, in a machine shop? Employees attend safety
lectures? Even the few kids nowadays with experience with power
tools, a lathe is a whole 'nother animal.

She was not a "kid." She was a graduate student in Astronomy, presumably
around 23-25 years old.

In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:



It happened at 2 AM, not the normal hours where there would be many people
around. She was a student, not an employee. She willingly ignored proper
safety precautions.

You are correct, she should be dismissed for failing to observe safety
procedures. Her carelessness should not result in a huge fines for the
university. You do have to take some responsibility for yourself.

Well, she was "dismissed" all right. I totally agree with the personal
responsibility aspect. I still believe it's the proverbial "nut behind
the wheel" that's the most dangerous part of a car, for example.

It's worth noting that there are certain shop safety standards that
employees are encouraged to ignore if they wish to remain employed.
Changing the part in a lathe while the machine is running is a good
example. You can't do that with a chuck of course, only with collets. Go
into any production machine shop and you'll find someone at a lathe,
popping one part out and the next part in, without ever stopping the
machine. It's the only way to meet production demands, and if you don't
meet those, you get the pink slip.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 05:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Shaun Eli
wrote:

First day of auto mechanics class in high school- teacher told us how
fast it'd get hot if we accidentally shorted out the battery
terminals, and if it was from a watch we're wearing we'd burn the heck
out of our arms. So no watches in class.

When I worked in an area that had electronics automated test equipment (chip
testers) there was a ban, for everyone entering the floor, on all metal except
eye glasses, ear rings, and belt buckles. Kinda silly because most work
wasn't any different than working on a PC but they had to do it because there
were production people working on the floor.

Wedding rings were not an issue, at least not in my school.

That's dumb. It's a *lot* more likely to get a ring across a battery than a
watch. Rings often get hung up after the normal reaction to shock or
explosion (jerk the hand back).

I meant that we didn't have any married kids in school.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Shaun Eli
wrote:

I meant that we didn't have any married kids in school.

You didn't have teachers in your school?

Yes, there was one auto mechanics teacher and he was the one who told
us to take off our watches. I'm reasonably sure he didn't wear a ring
in class.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"harry" wrote

This old hat. In the UK some one would end up in jail over this. the
company/university would be fined millions.
Employees that fail to observe safety proceedures are dismissed over
here.
Before working on machinery,all workers have to attend safety
lectures.
Large companies employ people whose entire job is about safety.

This is so elementary it's beyond belief.

It happened at 2 AM, not the normal hours where there would be many
people around. She was a student, not an employee. She willingly
ignored proper safety precautions.

You are correct, she should be dismissed for failing to observe safety
procedures. Her carelessness should not result in a huge fines for
the university. You do have to take some responsibility for yourself.

You are dead right. She should be dismissed for getting herself killed.

On 4/16/2011 9:19 AM, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

Yale must have some real morons in admin...turning students loose,
ALONE AND UNSUPERVISED, in a machine shop? Employees attend safety
lectures? Even the few kids nowadays with experience with power
tools, a lathe is a whole 'nother animal.

She was not a "kid." She was a graduate student in Astronomy, presumably
around 23-25 years old.



I have worked with and for some very brainy people that I had to take
the tools out of their hands and make up errands for them to run. I was
scared they were going to trash the tools and/or the item being worked
on, and/or injure themselves or me. Book-smart doesn't mean they ever
learned how to use tools, and some people just aren't wired that way.
But yeah, whoever the strawboss was for that shop, should only have
passed out after-hours keys to people he or she knew had enough
experience to be trusted. And some machines should be a 'no lone zone'-
you don't fire them up without a spotter to call 911. Sorta like doing
confined-space or high work by yourself- not a good idea even for
experienced people.

--
aem sends...

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 17:27:17 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

On 4/16/2011 9:19 AM, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

Yale must have some real morons in admin...turning students loose,
ALONE AND UNSUPERVISED, in a machine shop? Employees attend safety
lectures? Even the few kids nowadays with experience with power
tools, a lathe is a whole 'nother animal.

She was not a "kid." She was a graduate student in Astronomy, presumably
around 23-25 years old.



I have worked with and for some very brainy people that I had to take
the tools out of their hands and make up errands for them to run. I was
scared they were going to trash the tools and/or the item being worked
on, and/or injure themselves or me. Book-smart doesn't mean they ever
learned how to use tools, and some people just aren't wired that way.
But yeah, whoever the strawboss was for that shop, should only have
passed out after-hours keys to people he or she knew had enough
experience to be trusted. And some machines should be a 'no lone zone'-
you don't fire them up without a spotter to call 911. Sorta like doing
confined-space or high work by yourself- not a good idea even for
experienced people.

--

About being wired right.
I warned a foreman at IH once not to trust a fellow worker around any
danger. The guy couldn't even operate a worksaver safely.
Plain clumsy.
Foreman put him on a Webb roller and he got his arm pulled through,
mangling it badly so it was useless.
The Webb machine had a safety cable running it's entire length to pop
the top roller, but he never hit it. Somebody who was nearby heard
him scream, and hit the cable to free him. Probably saved his life.
I'm not too in love with myself either, because one time I managed to
back myself in a corner hotdogging a worksaver and it rode up on my
foot almost to my ankle.
Steel toes were required at IH, but not metatarsals.
But I wore the same metatarsal shoes I wore at U.S. Steel, where they
were required. Only thing that kept that foot from getting mangled.
Would have broke every bone on the top of my foot up high.
Just limped for a couple days from the bruising.
So dress gear is important too. I don't recall ever needing those
metatarsals except that once. Once is enough.
Don't even have any steel toes anymore, though I sometimes drop
something and have to dodge my feet out of the way.
I should have some for whenever I do work in the garage.
But I probably won't get a pair. No safety boss here.

--Vic

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
It's worth noting that there are certain shop safety standards that
employees are encouraged to ignore if they wish to remain employed.

Yup, seen it with my own eyes, the rules can get weaker and weaker when a
job has to be done today or else. And industry will fight like hell to
keep
it that way too, look at how the coal mining industry is able to keep the
law from gaining the teeth it needs to shut down mines with bad safety
records. Serious inspectors with the ability to pull the plug or really
painful lawsuits seem to be the only things that really get some
companies'
attention.

As the BP disaster proved again, getting tough regulators is hard because of
"capture." Many former inspectors end up working for the companies they
once inspected, bringing with them a wealth of "work-arounds" and weak
points in the inspection system.

Sadly, it seems that at least some of the regulators see their work for the
Feds as a stepping stone to a much better paying industry job. Same things
happens with old Congressmen. They go to work for the MPAA, the RIAA or
whomever else their OTJ experience might have a dollar value. They're
especially useful in getting pro-industry legislation passed like the DMCA.
That botched law makes a surprising number of previously legal activities
into crimes and essentially said "you bought it but you don't own it, nor
are your fair use rights enforceable."

If Congress gleefully cut consumer rights with such ease, imagine how ready,
willing and able they are to gut worker's safety laws? Expect to see many
more problems like sleeping air traffic controllers as the budget squeezes
ever tighter. It will take the modern equivalent of a Triangle Shirtwaist
Fire to turn the trend around. Or two jumbo jet colliding over a major
city.

As a kid I remember bicycling over to see the wreckage of a mid-air
collision over Brooklyn, NYC. With today's huge planes and fuel loads, a
similar disaster (I believe it was a Connie and a 707 back then) would
likely cause 10 times the casualties on the ground. When we cut back on
regulation and inspection, the death rate from accidents will climb.

--
Bobby G.

On 4/16/2011 8:06 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
(snip)

About being wired right.
I warned a foreman at IH once not to trust a fellow worker around any
danger. The guy couldn't even operate a worksaver safely.

I grew up on construction sites, not a factory or mill floor. What is a
'worksaver?'

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 20:25:13 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

On 4/16/2011 8:06 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
(snip)

About being wired right.
I warned a foreman at IH once not to trust a fellow worker around any
danger. The guy couldn't even operate a worksaver safely.

I grew up on construction sites, not a factory or mill floor. What is a
'worksaver?'

Electric motorized version of a manual pallet mover.
They'll lift a pallet or steel tub weighing a ton or so.up about 5
inches and move it at a fast walking pace.
They're heavy.

--Vic

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

As a kid I remember bicycling over to see the wreckage of a mid-air
collision over Brooklyn, NYC. With today's huge planes and fuel loads, a
similar disaster (I believe it was a Connie and a 707 back then) would
likely cause 10 times the casualties on the ground. When we cut back on
regulation and inspection, the death rate from accidents will climb.

As far as mid-airs, we have a decent automated TCAS (traffic collision
avoidance system) these days that doesn't rely on air traffic
controllers. The standard "see and avoid" responsibility of pilots is
commendable, but when you're flying 600 mph, other planes go from barely
perceptible specks in the sky to filling your windscreen in seconds.

"Robert Green" wrote in message ...

As the BP disaster proved again, getting tough regulators is hard because
of
"capture." Many former inspectors end up working for the companies they
once inspected, bringing with them a wealth of "work-arounds" and weak
points in the inspection system.

Sadly, it seems that at least some of the regulators see their work for
the
Feds as a stepping stone to a much better paying industry job. Same
things
happens with old Congressmen.

They go the other way too, if memory serves Bush appointed a mining industry
lobbyist to be in charge of the National Parks--gotta wonder if he turned
his knowledge of the industry to keeping the parks intact or if he thought
the appointment was an extension of his old job. Obama has also brought
lots of folks from industry into govt., which might be okay if their
portfolios go into blind trusts and they're barred from returning to
industry for at least several years after they leave govt. No wonder
legislation so often just happens to line up with what industry wants.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
wrote:

Yale must have some real morons in admin...turning students loose,
ALONE AND UNSUPERVISED, in a machine shop? Employees attend safety
lectures? Even the few kids nowadays with experience with power
tools, a lathe is a whole 'nother animal.

She was not a "kid." She was a graduate student in Astronomy, presumably
around 23-25 years old.

We have been round and round the real issue here, and no one has brought it
up. She had the "right" to be stupid. To wear her hair long in a dangerous
environment. I don't see anyone standing up for her saying she had the
right to do what she did. This great country has been fostered now for
hundreds of years by each person's "rights" to do this and that. We must
allow people the "right" to exercise their "rights" even if their "rights"
end up getting them killed. We do it all the time, with junkies, fast
drivers, overeaters, lots of people.

It's just too bad that we have taken this to such an extreme, so far away
from the intent of those who wanted to guarantee us our "rights".

Ahh, the liberal bent.

Steve, who is right

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 4/16/2011 9:19 AM, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

Yale must have some real morons in admin...turning students loose,
ALONE AND UNSUPERVISED, in a machine shop? Employees attend safety
lectures? Even the few kids nowadays with experience with power
tools, a lathe is a whole 'nother animal.

She was not a "kid." She was a graduate student in Astronomy, presumably
around 23-25 years old.



I have worked with and for some very brainy people that I had to take the
tools out of their hands and make up errands for them to run. I was scared
they were going to trash the tools and/or the item being worked on, and/or
injure themselves or me. Book-smart doesn't mean they ever learned how to
use tools, and some people just aren't wired that way. But yeah, whoever
the strawboss was for that shop, should only have passed out after-hours
keys to people he or she knew had enough experience to be trusted. And
some machines should be a 'no lone zone'- you don't fire them up without a
spotter to call 911. Sorta like doing confined-space or high work by
yourself- not a good idea even for experienced people.

--
aem sends...

Confined space entry is one of the longest and most complicated sections in
OSHA regs. I had to formulate a company policy on it when I was in safety,
and I had those yearly CDs. The section was HUGE, and the intricacies were
many. Just by doing confined space entry alone, you violate OSHA, high work
probably the same, it's been twenty plus years since I was in safety.

Steve

On 4/15/2011 9:45 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 21:18:00 -0500,
wrote:

A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...lick=pm_latest

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .


That's a good article, and they mention jewelry, including rings.
I'll never forget what I saw in the safety class for new employees at
IH many years ago.
I was already real careful about sleeves and loose clothes from doing
car engine work.
At the IH safety class they showed 2 pictures I remember well.
A wedding banded finger with about 2 feet of tendons hanging from it.
It was on a drill press chuck. The ring fit right in a groove of the
chuck. Violated the "touching moving machinery" rule but it was the
ring that got the finger.
Second picture the finger looked like the first one.
Except it was about 8 feet off the ground on the back of a T-25 dozer,
stuck on some kind of groove up there.
Salesman had jumped down, but left the finger behind.
I put my wedding band in a drawer.

--Vic

I've never worn any jewelry and if I wear a watch, it's plastic with a
plastic band like a divers watch. My oldest brother got his Twist-O-Flex
watch band between the positive battery lead and ground on a tractor, he
got branded when it lit up. :-)

TDD

On 4/16/2011 6:19 AM, Frank wrote:
On 4/16/2011 3:58 AM, harry wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:18 am, wrote:
A review of best practices by Popular Mechanics magazine, inspired by
the
death of a Yale student whose hair was caught in the chuck of a metal
lathe.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...ts-tragic-deat...

I guess she should have been wearing a hair net. . .

USA a hundred years behind normal workshop practices again?

This old hat. In the UK some one would end up in jail over this. the
company/university would be fined millions.
Employees that fail to observe safety proceedures are dismissed over
here.
Before working on machinery,all workers have to attend safety
lectures.
Large companies employ people whose entire job is about safety.

This is so elementary it's beyond belief.

Not true.
When I went from university to industrial lab years ago there was a
quantum leap in safe practices.
I suspect this gap remains today.
Interesting that the universities which are liberal bastions are less
considerate of the welfare of their employees and students.

It was a girl with long hair but could easily have been a Hippie guy.
Whenever anyone is operating machinery like that, there should always
be another person around, especially if the person using the equipment
is inexperienced. It was a terrible preventable accident. :-(

TDD

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

As a kid I remember bicycling over to see the wreckage of a mid-air
collision over Brooklyn, NYC. With today's huge planes and fuel loads,
a
similar disaster (I believe it was a Connie and a 707 back then) would
likely cause 10 times the casualties on the ground. When we cut back on
regulation and inspection, the death rate from accidents will climb.

As far as mid-airs, we have a decent automated TCAS (traffic collision
avoidance system) these days that doesn't rely on air traffic
controllers. The standard "see and avoid" responsibility of pilots is
commendable, but when you're flying 600 mph, other planes go from barely
perceptible specks in the sky to filling your windscreen in seconds.

We've had an awful lot of close calls lately. The huge airbus spinning the
small jet on the JFK runway and the 1st lady's near miss with a 200 ton
military cargo jet occurred in the last week or two. The FAA chief has
ordered a top-down safety review.


http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...rol-system.ece

""Incidents of near misses and close calls, and serious mishaps that have
been reported - I am just a little concerned that our luck may be running
out," Mica, the chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee, said in an interview Thursday."

With bigger and bigger jets carrying more passengers all flying to major
urban centers, the law of averages is at work and sooner or later, you'll
have another Tenerife where two jumbos collide and lots of people die.

March 27, 1977- KLM Flight 4805 and Pan Am Flight 1736, both Boeing 747s,
collide on the runway in the Tenerife disaster (Los Rodeos Airport) Tenerife
Canary Islands; 583 of 644 people on board both aircraft are killed in the
worst accident in the history of commercial aviation.

At Tenerife, collateral damage was limited because the two planes were still
at the airport.

There's a good list at Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...i al_aircraft

including the details of the mid-air collision I remember as a kid:

December 16 - The 1960 New York air disaster: United Airlines Flight 826, a
Douglas DC-8, and TWA Flight 266, a Lockheed Super Constellation, collide in
mid-air over Staten Island in New York; all 128 aboard the two planes and
six people on the ground are killed.

While I agree that collision avoidance avionics have improved tremendously
since the 1960 crash, planes just keep getting bigger and bigger and the
airspace more and more crowded. The articles about the JFK crash mentioned
that the Airbus that was involved was so large that special precautions had
to be taken for every take-off and landing. To me, that's just asking for
trouble.

--
Bobby G.