Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

On Apr 1, 10:54*pm, (Micheal C. Jordan)
wrote:
Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

Asphalt felt is no longer considered for anything but the cheapest
roofing work. In our area, the popular replacement is one of the newer
plastic sheeting types, like Permafelt. It is a far better second line
of defense against unexpected shingle failure and can be left on the
sheathing for some time while waiting on a roofing crew. Additionally,
it is safer to walk on while installing the shingles.
If you do a roofing project that requires pulling a permit, failure to
use underlayment will make your building inspector rather irate. Your
call.

Joe

On 4/1/2011 8:08 PM Joe spake thus:

On Apr 1, 10:54 pm, (Micheal C. Jordan)
wrote:

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed
on the roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the
function of the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt,
perforated and non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour
movement? What happens if the felt is not installed?

Asphalt felt is no longer considered for anything but the cheapest
roofing work. In our area, the popular replacement is one of the newer
plastic sheeting types, like Permafelt. It is a far better second line
of defense against unexpected shingle failure and can be left on the
sheathing for some time while waiting on a roofing crew. Additionally,
it is safer to walk on while installing the shingles.

So to answer the OP's question: what *is* the function of underlayment?
Is it a backup in case of shingle failure? or something else?


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On 2 Apr 2011 03:54:39 GMT, (Micheal C.
Jordan) wrote:


Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?



Generally speaking, if the felt is not installed the guarantee is
void. The felt seals the roof. Perforated lets vapour out without
letting water in. The shingles protect the felt and flow the water off
the roof, but the felt repels any water that gets through or blown
under the shingles, and directs it downstream rather than letting it
penetrate the roof.

There were a lot of roofing contractors in these parts installing the
newer fiberglass shingles without felt a few years ago, trying to be
price competetive - virtually all have now gone back to using felt
because their failure/callback rate was too high without.

In fact quite a few premium roofers are now using the"blue-seal" type
membrane used as ice-guard over the entire roof. That stuff sticks
like snott, and seals around the nail holes, making a totally
leakproof seal.

"Micheal C. Jordan" wrote in message
...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

On Apr 2, 6:33*pm, "EXT" wrote:
"Micheal C. Jordan" wrote in ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

Who was the shingle manufacturer? I've never run across a single
fiberglass or asphalt (dating myself) roof shingle that did not have
the installation instructions on the wrapper call out for
underlayment. Code calls for underlayment. Code does allow the
omission of an underlayment if the shingles are installed in
conformance with the manufacturer's instruction. And we're back to
the underlayment.

R

On Apr 2, 8:33*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:33*pm, "EXT" wrote:

"Micheal C. Jordan" wrote in ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

Who was the shingle manufacturer? *I've never run across a single
fiberglass or asphalt (dating myself) roof shingle that did not have
the installation instructions on the wrapper call out for
underlayment. *Code calls for underlayment. *Code does allow the
omission of an underlayment if the shingles are installed in
conformance with the manufacturer's instruction. *And we're back to
the underlayment.

R

A gal I knew bought a breand new home, the builder didnt bother
putting down felt for any of the homes in that neighborhood.

All the homes ended up with leaky roofs.

The town wet after the builder and he had to install new roofs on 30
homes for free.

The builder had changed his companies name and tried to disown all the
homes.

The town said fine but you will lose your contactors license in the
entire state of PA and other states too, some reciprocal agreements.

The builder blamed the roof workers, a bunch of unsupervised college
kids. it was all very messy.

In the end the builder paid for all new roofs.

BTW that rubber membrame is far better than tar paper

On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:33:53 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"Micheal C. Jordan" wrote in message
...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.
The insistence by manufacturers that an underlay be used goes back to
well before fiberglass shingles.

On 4/3/2011 3:04 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), bob
wrote:

On Apr 2, 8:33 pm, wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:33 pm, wrote:

"Micheal C. wrote in ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

Who was the shingle manufacturer? I've never run across a single
fiberglass or asphalt (dating myself) roof shingle that did not have
the installation instructions on the wrapper call out for
underlayment. Code calls for underlayment. Code does allow the
omission of an underlayment if the shingles are installed in
conformance with the manufacturer's instruction. And we're back to
the underlayment.

R

A gal I knew bought a breand new home, the builder didnt bother
putting down felt for any of the homes in that neighborhood.

All the homes ended up with leaky roofs.

The town wet after the builder and he had to install new roofs on 30
homes for free.

The builder had changed his companies name and tried to disown all the
homes.

The town said fine but you will lose your contactors license in the
entire state of PA and other states too, some reciprocal agreements.

The builder blamed the roof workers, a bunch of unsupervised college
kids. it was all very messy.

In the end the builder paid for all new roofs.

BTW that rubber membrame is far better than tar paper

Do people still use shingles? All the new roofs I see are steel.
Shingles are old school, have a short life span compared to steel.
Why spend $5000 every 15 years when you can get steel for $7000 and
have it last at least 50 years if not more. I'll never use shingles
again on my buildings.


Where do you live that you are only getting 15 years out of shingles? Or
are you buying real cheap shingles and/or multi-layering them? Here in
upper midwest, with 5-month winters, 20 years is considered short, and
30-35 is not unknown.

But yeah, steel is nice, if it goes with design of house. Are you
referring to barn-style sheet goods, or the ones that try to look like
traditional shingles? The plastic faux slate is popular for McMansions
here, not that many of those are getting built in last few years.

--
aem sends....

On Apr 3, 7:44*am, aemeijers wrote:
On 4/3/2011 3:04 AM, wrote:



On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), bob
wrote:

On Apr 2, 8:33 pm, *wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:33 pm, *wrote:

"Micheal C. *wrote in ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

Who was the shingle manufacturer? *I've never run across a single
fiberglass or asphalt (dating myself) roof shingle that did not have
the installation instructions on the wrapper call out for
underlayment. *Code calls for underlayment. *Code does allow the
omission of an underlayment if the shingles are installed in
conformance with the manufacturer's instruction. *And we're back to
the underlayment.

R

A gal I knew bought a breand new home, the builder didnt bother
putting down felt for any of the homes in that neighborhood.

All the homes ended up with leaky roofs.

The town wet after the builder and he had to install new roofs on 30
homes for free.

The builder had changed his companies name and tried to disown all the
homes.

The town said fine but you will lose your contactors license in the
entire state of PA and other states too, some reciprocal agreements.

The builder blamed the roof workers, a bunch of unsupervised college
kids. it was all very messy.

In the end the builder paid for all new roofs.

BTW that rubber membrame is far better than tar paper

Do people still use shingles? *All the new roofs I see are steel.
Shingles are old school, have a short life span compared to steel.
Why spend $5000 every 15 years when you can get steel for $7000 and
have it last at least 50 years if not more. *I'll never use shingles
again on my buildings.

Where do you live that you are only getting 15 years out of shingles? Or
are you buying real cheap shingles and/or multi-layering them? Here in
upper midwest, with 5-month winters, *20 years is considered short, and
30-35 is not unknown.

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a
standard shingle roof. I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the
end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.



But yeah, steel is nice, if it goes with design of house. Are you
referring to barn-style sheet goods, or the ones that try to look like
traditional shingles? The plastic faux slate is popular for McMansions
here, not that many of those are getting built in last few years.

--
aem sends....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Apr 3, 8:43*am, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 7:44*am, aemeijers wrote:





On 4/3/2011 3:04 AM, wrote:

On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), bob
wrote:

On Apr 2, 8:33 pm, *wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:33 pm, *wrote:

"Micheal C. *wrote in ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

Who was the shingle manufacturer? *I've never run across a single
fiberglass or asphalt (dating myself) roof shingle that did not have
the installation instructions on the wrapper call out for
underlayment. *Code calls for underlayment. *Code does allow the
omission of an underlayment if the shingles are installed in
conformance with the manufacturer's instruction. *And we're back to
the underlayment.

R

A gal I knew bought a breand new home, the builder didnt bother
putting down felt for any of the homes in that neighborhood.

All the homes ended up with leaky roofs.

The town wet after the builder and he had to install new roofs on 30
homes for free.

The builder had changed his companies name and tried to disown all the
homes.

The town said fine but you will lose your contactors license in the
entire state of PA and other states too, some reciprocal agreements.

The builder blamed the roof workers, a bunch of unsupervised college
kids. it was all very messy.

In the end the builder paid for all new roofs.

BTW that rubber membrame is far better than tar paper

Do people still use shingles? *All the new roofs I see are steel.
Shingles are old school, have a short life span compared to steel.
Why spend $5000 every 15 years when you can get steel for $7000 and
have it last at least 50 years if not more. *I'll never use shingles
again on my buildings.

Where do you live that you are only getting 15 years out of shingles? Or
are you buying real cheap shingles and/or multi-layering them? Here in
upper midwest, with 5-month winters, *20 years is considered short, and
30-35 is not unknown.

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a
standard shingle roof. *I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the
end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. *And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.





But yeah, steel is nice, if it goes with design of house. Are you
referring to barn-style sheet goods, or the ones that try to look like
traditional shingles? The plastic faux slate is popular for McMansions
here, not that many of those are getting built in last few years.

--
aem sends....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

steel can be noisey in hail, slate costs a fortune and is super heavy,
the roof structure must be far heavier to support all that weight.
Copper costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$

50 year guaranteed shingles are available. They arent popular.

Young people cant afford them and older people who have the money dont
bother figuring they wouldnt get their moneys worth. they will die
first.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 07:44:46 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

On 4/3/2011 3:04 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), bob
wrote:

On Apr 2, 8:33 pm, wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:33 pm, wrote:

"Micheal C. wrote in ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?) installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What happens if
the felt is not installed?

My last roof was put on without an underlay, the fiberglass shingles bonded
to the plywood sheets and then started to crack the shingles along the
vertical plywood seams. This was reported as a common problem and the
manufacturers then started insisting on an underlay between the shingles and
the plywood.

Who was the shingle manufacturer? I've never run across a single
fiberglass or asphalt (dating myself) roof shingle that did not have
the installation instructions on the wrapper call out for
underlayment. Code calls for underlayment. Code does allow the
omission of an underlayment if the shingles are installed in
conformance with the manufacturer's instruction. And we're back to
the underlayment.

R

A gal I knew bought a breand new home, the builder didnt bother
putting down felt for any of the homes in that neighborhood.

All the homes ended up with leaky roofs.

The town wet after the builder and he had to install new roofs on 30
homes for free.

The builder had changed his companies name and tried to disown all the
homes.

The town said fine but you will lose your contactors license in the
entire state of PA and other states too, some reciprocal agreements.

The builder blamed the roof workers, a bunch of unsupervised college
kids. it was all very messy.

In the end the builder paid for all new roofs.

BTW that rubber membrame is far better than tar paper

Do people still use shingles? All the new roofs I see are steel.
Shingles are old school, have a short life span compared to steel.
Why spend $5000 every 15 years when you can get steel for $7000 and
have it last at least 50 years if not more. I'll never use shingles
again on my buildings.


Where do you live that you are only getting 15 years out of shingles? Or
are you buying real cheap shingles and/or multi-layering them? Here in
upper midwest, with 5-month winters, 20 years is considered short, and
30-35 is not unknown.

You get 20 years out of a shingle roof in the upper midwest???
I'm not going to call you a liar, but 25 year shingles in Central
Ontario are generally pretty well beat in 15 years. Yes, you could
likely get them to 20, but at a high risk of having a leak first. I
ALWAYS replace my roof before I get water damage frm a leak.

Old asphalt shingles DID last 20, 25, or more years. Shingles made in
the last 20-25 years do NOT.

That said, around here a good steel "tile" type roof costs more than
double the cost of a shingled roof, and a raised seam sheet steel roof
is somewhere in between, but with the snow weget around here it is
difficult to keep ice and snow from sliding off in big sheets, doing
significant harm or damage.

But yeah, steel is nice, if it goes with design of house. Are you
referring to barn-style sheet goods, or the ones that try to look like
traditional shingles? The plastic faux slate is popular for McMansions
here, not that many of those are getting built in last few years.
The steel "tile" or "shingle" look roofs are becoming more popular
here, but the "barn roof" style is almost unheard of for urban
residential use. You see it on some farm houses.

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 05:43:53 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


Where do you live that you are only getting 15 years out of shingles? Or
are you buying real cheap shingles and/or multi-layering them? Here in
upper midwest, with 5-month winters, Â*20 years is considered short, and
30-35 is not unknown.

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a
standard shingle roof. I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the
end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.


Your replacement shingle roof will not last nearly as long as your
current roof. You can count on it. Sinse the asbestos fiber has been
eliminated, and asphalt content reduced, even the high end "asphalt"
shingles have become extremely dissapointing in the lifespan
department. The socalled "fiberglass" shingles in particular.


But yeah, steel is nice, if it goes with design of house. Are you
referring to barn-style sheet goods, or the ones that try to look like
traditional shingles? The plastic faux slate is popular for McMansions
here, not that many of those are getting built in last few years.

--
aem sends....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Apr 3, 3:31*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, " wrote:

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a standard shingle roof. *I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. *And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.

Your replacement shingle roof will not last nearly as long as your
current roof. You can count on it.

Please list the number of assumptions you made to come up with that
assertion. I stopped counting after three.

Sinse the asbestos fiber has been
eliminated, and asphalt content reduced, even the high end "asphalt"
shingles have become extremely dissapointing in the lifespan
department. The socalled "fiberglass" shingles in particular.

Asbestos is a silicate mineral fiber, just like fiberglass. The
substitution of one for another has nothing to do with the longevity
of a shingle. The longevity is affected by other factors.

Over the years I've installed shingles that run the gamut from lowest
end three-tab to 50 year architectural, and have found that you pretty
much get what you pay for. Rated shingles are going to provide right
around the listed effective life. If they're in an extreme climate,
the lifespan will be shortened a bit, but it won't be a 50% reduction.

R

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:14:09 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Apr 3, 3:31Â*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, " wrote:

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a standard shingle roof. Â*I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. Â*And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.

Your replacement shingle roof will not last nearly as long as your
current roof. You can count on it.

Please list the number of assumptions you made to come up with that
assertion. I stopped counting after three.

Sinse the asbestos fiber has been
eliminated, and asphalt content reduced, even the high end "asphalt"
shingles have become extremely dissapointing in the lifespan
department. The socalled "fiberglass" shingles in particular.

Asbestos is a silicate mineral fiber, just like fiberglass. The
substitution of one for another has nothing to do with the longevity
of a shingle. The longevity is affected by other factors.

Over the years I've installed shingles that run the gamut from lowest
end three-tab to 50 year architectural, and have found that you pretty
much get what you pay for. Rated shingles are going to provide right
around the listed effective life. If they're in an extreme climate,
the lifespan will be shortened a bit, but it won't be a 50% reduction.


Good to know the "40 year" year shingles I had done 8 about years ago
will outlive me. Wait....
Looks like the ridge shingles curled up a bit at the lips.
Hope that doesn't get worse.

--Vic

On Apr 3, 11:37*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:14:09 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour









wrote:
On Apr 3, 3:31*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, " wrote:

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a standard shingle roof. *I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. *And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.

Your replacement shingle roof will not last nearly as long as your
current roof. You can count on it.

Please list the number of assumptions you made to come up with that
assertion. *I stopped counting after three.

Sinse the asbestos fiber has been
eliminated, and asphalt content reduced, even the high end "asphalt"
shingles have become extremely dissapointing in the lifespan
department. The socalled "fiberglass" shingles in particular.

Asbestos is a silicate mineral fiber, just like fiberglass. *The
substitution of one for another has nothing to do with the longevity
of a shingle. *The longevity is affected by other factors.

Over the years I've installed shingles that run the gamut from lowest
end three-tab to 50 year architectural, and have found that you pretty
much get what you pay for. *Rated shingles are going to provide right
around the listed effective life. *If they're in an extreme climate,
the lifespan will be shortened a bit, but it won't be a 50% reduction.

Good to know the "40 year" year shingles I had done 8 about years ago
will outlive me. *Wait....
Looks like the ridge shingles curled up a bit at the lips.
Hope that doesn't get worse.

40 year shingles are usually too thick/stiff to bend over a ridge
unless it's a really shallow sloped roof, and most manufacturer's
don't make a cap shingle that will match the 40-year rating, so
installers use a lower grade shingle for the cap. If that was what
was done on your house, you probably wouldn't notice it from the
ground, but you won't be getting the full life from the ridge cap. Do
you happen to know what was used for the ridge cap shingles?

R

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:14:09 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Apr 3, 3:31Â*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, " wrote:

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a standard shingle roof. Â*I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. Â*And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.

Your replacement shingle roof will not last nearly as long as your
current roof. You can count on it.

Please list the number of assumptions you made to come up with that
assertion. I stopped counting after three.

No assumptions. Experience

Sinse the asbestos fiber has been
eliminated, and asphalt content reduced, even the high end "asphalt"
shingles have become extremely dissapointing in the lifespan
department. The socalled "fiberglass" shingles in particular.

Asbestos is a silicate mineral fiber, just like fiberglass. The
substitution of one for another has nothing to do with the longevity
of a shingle. The longevity is affected by other factors.

Over the years I've installed shingles that run the gamut from lowest
end three-tab to 50 year architectural, and have found that you pretty
much get what you pay for. Rated shingles are going to provide right
around the listed effective life. If they're in an extreme climate,
the lifespan will be shortened a bit, but it won't be a 50% reduction.

Well, I put 25 year architectural shingles on my house and they
required replacement in 17 years. The original 3 tab "contractor"
shingles lasted about 16. The house is 38 years old. I put 25 year 3
tabs on about 5 years ago, figuring I might not need to change them
again in my tenure here - the wife wants a bungalow in the next ten
years.
In years past, (late sixties early seventies)I've installed shingles
that lasted 25 years or more - and they were not premium shingles. The
contractor that did my last roof said he has been very upset with the
lifespan of the mid eighties and later materials and would not even
quote me on less than the 25 year shingle, because he won't install
them.

The weather here is not what I would call "extreme" but we do get wide
temperature variations (from about -10F to 95F) and a fair amount of
snow some years - with lots of freeze thaw cycles

R

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:57:34 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:



40 year shingles are usually too thick/stiff to bend over a ridge
unless it's a really shallow sloped roof, and most manufacturer's
don't make a cap shingle that will match the 40-year rating, so
installers use a lower grade shingle for the cap. If that was what
was done on your house, you probably wouldn't notice it from the
ground, but you won't be getting the full life from the ridge cap. Do
you happen to know what was used for the ridge cap shingles?


Sorry, can't remember the manufacturer, except it was a major.
Funny thing is I googled shingle manufacturers and none clang a bell.
Any big one recently go out of business or change names?
If not they're probably Owens-Corning.
The ridge shingles seem to match the others, as I recall 40-year
architectural, but only sure about the 40-year part.
They look to be at least 4 times thicker than the stuff I had torn off
and give the roof a look of "depth" The roofer showed me samples and
recommended a 30-year.
When I went for the thicker stuff he seemed unhappy enough about that
so's I had to push him a little.
Said he'd have to charge a couple/few hundred more on the labor
besides the extra cost of the shingle. Understandable.
I did chicken-ladder roll roofing on my ma's steep roof when I was
younger and remember carrying those rolls up a 30-footer, so weight is
a factor. Might be something else that makes them harder to install
too, don't know.
Never figured why he was resistant except maybe it would rankle his
crew leader or somebody on the crew was hurting.
They did a good job and I got the shingles I wanted.
They look real good.
I've been on the roof a few times and didn't notice the ridges
being different than the others up close.
House is a bungalow with not much roof slope.
I'd say the bends are about 30 degrees.
Wife pointed out the curls to me. The curls weren't there a couple
years ago, last time I was on the roof. I would have noticed.
You have to be the right distance from the house on the ground to
notice.
Thought briefly about calling the roofer out. He's a local business.
Or was, don't know if he's still operating.
Not too concerned, but a bit surprised.
Doesn't appear to be more than a mild cosmetic flaw if it doesn't get
worse.
I did some woodwork recently that has a similar issue (-:
I'll get up there in a week or two and take a closer look.

--Vic

Helps keep water from getting through the roof.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Micheal C. Jordan" wrote in
message ...

Shingles (standard three tab type) have felt (tar paper?)
installed on the
roof first, and then the shingles are installed. What is the
function of
the felt? I understand there are 2 types of felt, perforated
and
non-perforated. Is perforated felt for vapour movement? What
happens if
the felt is not installed?

On Apr 4, 1:41*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:57:34 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

wrote:

40 year shingles are usually too thick/stiff to bend over a ridge
unless it's a really shallow sloped roof, and most manufacturer's
don't make a cap shingle that will match the 40-year rating, so
installers use a lower grade shingle for the cap. *If that was what
was done on your house, you probably wouldn't notice it from the
ground, but you won't be getting the full life from the ridge cap. *Do
you happen to know what was used for the ridge cap shingles?

Sorry, can't remember the manufacturer, except it was a major.
Funny thing is I googled shingle manufacturers and none clang a bell.
Any big one recently go out of business or change names?
If not they're probably Owens-Corning.
The ridge shingles seem to match the others, as I recall 40-year
architectural, but only sure about the 40-year part. *
They look to be at least 4 times thicker than the stuff I had torn off
and give the roof a look of "depth" *The roofer showed me samples and
recommended a 30-year.
When I went for the thicker stuff he seemed unhappy enough about that
so's I had to push him a little.
Said he'd have to charge a couple/few hundred more on the labor
besides the extra cost of the shingle. *Understandable.
I did chicken-ladder roll roofing on my ma's steep roof when I was
younger and remember carrying those rolls up a 30-footer, so weight is
a factor. *Might be something else that makes them harder to install
too, don't know.
Never figured why he was resistant except maybe it would rankle his
crew leader or somebody on the crew was hurting.
They did a good job and I got the shingles I wanted.
They look real good.
I've been on the roof a few times and didn't notice the ridges
being different than the others up close.
House is a bungalow with not much roof slope.
I'd say the bends are about 30 degrees.
Wife pointed out the curls to me. *The curls weren't there a couple
years ago, last time I was on the roof. *I would have noticed.
You have to be the right distance from the house on the ground to
notice.
Thought briefly about calling the roofer out. *He's a local business.
Or was, don't know if he's still operating.
Not too concerned, but a bit surprised.
Doesn't appear to be more than a mild cosmetic flaw if it doesn't get
worse.
I did some woodwork recently that has a similar issue (-:
I'll get up there in a week or two and take a closer look.

Post back what you find. A picture or two would be dandy. I've never
seen cap shingles curl like that. On the down side, you might have to
replace them sooner than the rest, on the up side, those are by far
the easiest shingles to replace, and also straddling the ridge makes
most people feel safer.

R

On Apr 4, 12:24*am, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:14:09 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour









wrote:
On Apr 3, 3:31*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, " wrote:

Not to mention where is he that a steel roof is that close in cost to
a standard shingle roof. *I'm at 27 years here in NJ and getting near
the end of life on my roof, but it's still OK. *And those were standard
shingles.
Presumably some of the newer heavier ones perform even better.
I've only seen steel widely used in places where heavy snow is
common.

Your replacement shingle roof will not last nearly as long as your
current roof. You can count on it.

Please list the number of assumptions you made to come up with that
assertion. *I stopped counting after three.

No assumptions. Experience



Sinse the asbestos fiber has been
eliminated, and asphalt content reduced, even the high end "asphalt"
shingles have become extremely dissapointing in the lifespan
department. The socalled "fiberglass" shingles in particular.

Asbestos is a silicate mineral fiber, just like fiberglass. *The
substitution of one for another has nothing to do with the longevity
of a shingle. *The longevity is affected by other factors.

Over the years I've installed shingles that run the gamut from lowest
end three-tab to 50 year architectural, and have found that you pretty
much get what you pay for. *Rated shingles are going to provide right
around the listed effective life. *If they're in an extreme climate,
the lifespan will be shortened a bit, but it won't be a 50% reduction.

Well, I put 25 year architectural shingles on my house and they
required replacement in 17 years. The original 3 tab "contractor"
shingles lasted about 16. The house is 38 years old. I put 25 year 3
tabs on about 5 years ago, figuring I might not need to change them
again in my tenure here - the wife wants a bungalow in the next ten
years.
In years past, (late sixties early seventies)I've installed shingles
that lasted 25 years or more - and they were not premium shingles. The
contractor that did my last roof said he has been very upset with the
lifespan of the mid eighties and later materials and would not even
quote me on less than the 25 year shingle, because he won't install
them.

The weather here is not what I would call "extreme" but we do get wide
temperature variations (from about -10F to 95F) and a fair amount of
snow some years - with lots of freeze thaw cycles

I think what you're seeing is the increased and improved testing of
shingles showing up. Improved being a manufacturer's term. If you've
ever noticed that things are generally failing closer to their rated
life, that's because of improved testing and engineering. We never
had so many choices of shingle longevity, and types, as we do now, but
shingles are like house paint as far as I am concerned. Buy the best
materials you can afford/justify as the bulk of the work is in the
installation/preparation, and the down side of shortened life is
usually delayed maintenance leading to far bigger problems.

On your particular roof - that's a fairly big swing in temperature,
but not the most extreme, so I'm curious why you're getting so much
shorter life. Has your roof been stripped to the sheathing each time,
or have they been roofing over the old?

R