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UPS vs DSL modem
I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new
batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 8:50*am, Art Todesco wrote:
I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? Check the actual current draw and calculate the time it will buy you. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On 2/17/2011 8:50 AM, Art Todesco wrote:
I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? The whole point of a UPS is to prevent the very issue you are describing. There shouldn't be any "switch over time". Sounds like the UPS has issues. |
UPS vs DSL modem
Art Todesco wrote in news:ijj941$bqu$1
@speranza.aioe.org: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? The UPS is probably switching in too slowly for the modem's logic circuitry. The need to restart the modem is a giveaway that it's losing power for the tiniest moment, just enough for its logic to /begin/ to die, but not enough for it to die /all the way/ and thus do a complete reset on the new power- up. I think you need a newer UPS. -- Tegger |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 10:14*am, Tegger wrote:
Art Todesco wrote in news:ijj941$bqu$1 @speranza.aioe.org: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? The UPS is probably switching in too slowly for the modem's logic circuitry. The need to restart the modem is a giveaway that it's losing power for the tiniest moment, just enough for its logic to /begin/ to die, but not enough for it to die /all the way/ and thus do a complete reset on the new power- up. I think you need a newer UPS. -- Tegger The cap if it works would be a whole lot cheaper solution. I'm not familiar with smaller ups' only the big ones. I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. Thus they have to switch sources. |
UPS vs DSL modem
jamesgangnc wrote in
: I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. Thus they have to switch sources. Correct. They feed line-voltage until that voltage fails to meet certain pre-defined criteria. At that point the battery/inverter is switched-in. The switching time is on the order of milliseconds, short enough that the gap isn't noticeable to the equipment. Maybe older UPS's used caps to bridge the gap if the switches were too slow to be invisible to the equipment. I'm guessing here. -- Tegger |
UPS vs DSL modem
Art Todesco wrote: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? I would agree that you probably could use a newer / better UPS with a faster or no switching time. It is also possible that the DSL modem's cheap power supply has inadequate filter caps, or they are cheap and have failed. A new power supply may solve the problem, or adding a big cap as you indicated should also allow it to ride through a few cycles of outage while the UPS switches. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 10:22*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 17, 10:14*am, Tegger wrote: Art Todesco wrote in news:ijj941$bqu$1 @speranza.aioe.org: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? The UPS is probably switching in too slowly for the modem's logic circuitry. The need to restart the modem is a giveaway that it's losing power for the tiniest moment, just enough for its logic to /begin/ to die, but not enough for it to die /all the way/ and thus do a complete reset on the new power- up. I think you need a newer UPS. -- Tegger The cap if it works would be a whole lot cheaper solution. *I'm not familiar with smaller ups' only the big ones. *I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. *Thus they have to switch sources. What you describe is a "true online" UPS and they exist, but generally cost about 5-10x that of a typical consumer grade "line interactive" UPS of the same VA rating. nate |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 10:41*am, Tegger wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote : I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. *Thus they have to switch sources. Correct. They feed line-voltage until that voltage fails to meet certain pre-defined criteria. At that point the battery/inverter is switched-in. The switching time is on the order of milliseconds, short enough that the gap isn't noticeable to the equipment. Maybe older UPS's used caps to bridge the gap if the switches were too slow to be invisible to the equipment. I'm guessing here. -- Tegger You can't use a cap cause how would that work? Caps don't store ac. The inverter isn't on until it decideds to switch. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 11:30*am, N8N wrote:
On Feb 17, 10:22*am, jamesgangnc wrote: On Feb 17, 10:14*am, Tegger wrote: Art Todesco wrote in news:ijj941$bqu$1 @speranza.aioe.org: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? The UPS is probably switching in too slowly for the modem's logic circuitry. The need to restart the modem is a giveaway that it's losing power for the tiniest moment, just enough for its logic to /begin/ to die, but not enough for it to die /all the way/ and thus do a complete reset on the new power- up. I think you need a newer UPS. -- Tegger The cap if it works would be a whole lot cheaper solution. *I'm not familiar with smaller ups' only the big ones. *I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. *Thus they have to switch sources. What you describe is a "true online" UPS and they exist, but generally cost about 5-10x that of a typical consumer grade "line interactive" UPS of the same VA rating. nate- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yes, I remmeber the first one of those I worked with back in the 80's. Our facility had offices in front and a warehouse in the back. There was this small room back in the warehouse so we took it over and put the ups in it. Day one we figured out that it was hot as hell in that little room. Noisy too. Fortunately it was on an outside wall so we made a hole inthe wall and added an ac. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 8:50*am, Art Todesco wrote:
I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? Create your own power failure by unplugging wall, and see if you have the same result. greg |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 12:47*pm, zek wrote:
On Feb 17, 8:50*am, Art Todesco wrote: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? Create your own power failure by unplugging wall, and see if you have the same result. greg Clarify, unplug power to UPS for a few seconds. greg |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 1:05*pm, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:50:59 -0500, Art Todesco wrote: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries).. *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? I'd try a 1.5 farad cap used on auto power amps. Usually can pick one up for 10+ bucks. That should buffer the source more than enough and would be much cheaper than a new UPS. * Seriously, We don't even know the voltage of the supply except its suppose to be 12 at rated current output. Its easy to fry something. Unregulated outputs go up over 16 volts. As I said, pulling the plug on the UPS will narrow down the problem better. I'm worrying some other telephone line problem can occur during a power failure, up setting the modem. Many devices also warn of reconnecting a wall-wart supply while still active. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:50:59 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? Using a cheap stand-by "almost" power converter?? (that's what APC stands for)? Many of the cheap standby units have lousy transfer times. Short of changing UPS units, the large 25 volt capacitor wouls likely be the most effective solution. Don't whimp out and use a 12 volt. 16 would be OK, but a 25 will last a whole lot longer (you are looking at unfiltered rectified ac, not clean DC on those power warts). |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 07:22:57 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote: On Feb 17, 10:14Â*am, Tegger wrote: Art Todesco wrote in news:ijj941$bqu$1 @speranza.aioe.org: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). Â*When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. Â*I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. Â*I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. Â*I looked at the modem and its walwart. Â*It says 12 VDC. Â*I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Â*Anyone have any experience with something like this? The UPS is probably switching in too slowly for the modem's logic circuitry. The need to restart the modem is a giveaway that it's losing power for the tiniest moment, just enough for its logic to /begin/ to die, but not enough for it to die /all the way/ and thus do a complete reset on the new power- up. I think you need a newer UPS. -- Tegger The cap if it works would be a whole lot cheaper solution. I'm not familiar with smaller ups' only the big ones. I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. Thus they have to switch sources. Even a lot of the "larger" UPS units work that way. There are "standby" units (the cheap kind with switch-over drop-out), Line interactive (which switch over very quickly, using zero crossing switches or similar tech) and there are the genuine on-line, or "dual conversion" units the have absolutely no change-over or drop-out - and you pay accordingly. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:30:52 -0800 (PST), N8N
wrote: On Feb 17, 10:22Â*am, jamesgangnc wrote: On Feb 17, 10:14Â*am, Tegger wrote: Art Todesco wrote in news:ijj941$bqu$1 @speranza.aioe.org: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). Â*When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. Â*I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. Â*I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. Â*I looked at the modem and its walwart. Â*It says 12 VDC. Â*I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Â*Anyone have any experience with something like this? The UPS is probably switching in too slowly for the modem's logic circuitry. The need to restart the modem is a giveaway that it's losing power for the tiniest moment, just enough for its logic to /begin/ to die, but not enough for it to die /all the way/ and thus do a complete reset on the new power- up. I think you need a newer UPS. -- Tegger The cap if it works would be a whole lot cheaper solution. Â*I'm not familiar with smaller ups' only the big ones. Â*I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. Â*Thus they have to switch sources. What you describe is a "true online" UPS and they exist, but generally cost about 5-10x that of a typical consumer grade "line interactive" UPS of the same VA rating. nate And a "line interactive" is still head and shoulders above the cheap old "stand-by" UPS. In old APC parlence there was the cheap "Back-ups" and the interactive "Smart-ups". |
UPS vs DSL modem
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UPS vs DSL modem
On 2/17/2011 12:35 PM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 17, 10:41 am, wrote: wrote : I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. Thus they have to switch sources. Correct. They feed line-voltage until that voltage fails to meet certain pre-defined criteria. At that point the battery/inverter is switched-in. The switching time is on the order of milliseconds, short enough that the gap isn't noticeable to the equipment. Maybe older UPS's used caps to bridge the gap if the switches were too slow to be invisible to the equipment. I'm guessing here. -- Tegger You can't use a cap cause how would that work? Caps don't store ac. The inverter isn't on until it decideds to switch. Well, actually, I can, because the wallwart puts out 12VDC and the cap would be across that 12 volts. I agree with one poster that measuring the current and then calculate the time gained by a particular cap. But, I think I found the real reason. I think it's the ISP. I'll post more later. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 12:35*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 17, 10:41*am, Tegger wrote: jamesgangnc wrote : I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. *Thus they have to switch sources. Correct. They feed line-voltage until that voltage fails to meet certain pre-defined criteria. At that point the battery/inverter is switched-in.. The switching time is on the order of milliseconds, short enough that the gap isn't noticeable to the equipment. Maybe older UPS's used caps to bridge the gap if the switches were too slow to be invisible to the equipment. I'm guessing here. -- Tegger You can't use a cap cause how would that work? *Caps don't store ac. The inverter isn't on until it decideds to switch.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would work because he's talking about putting the cap across the 12V DC output of the wallwart that powers the modem. Sounds like a reasonable solution to try. On the other hand, I suspect the UPS isn't working correctly because the whole purpose of the UPS is to do what it doesn't seem able to do. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 2:05*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article , wrote: On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:50:59 -0500, Art Todesco wrote: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? *Using a cheap stand-by "almost" power converter?? (that's what APC stands for)? Many of the cheap standby units have lousy transfer times. Short of changing UPS units, the large 25 volt capacitor wouls likely be the most effective solution. Don't whimp out and use a 12 volt. 16 would be OK, but a 25 will last a whole lot longer (you are looking at unfiltered rectified ac, not clean DC on those power warts). More likely he's looking at a switching power supply in the wall wart.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I have a few wall warts with switching power supplies but many are still transformers. It's easy to tell, the ones with switching circuits instead of transformers are usually lighter and have a higher current rating. Another giveaway is that many of the switching ones accept anything from 100vac to 220vac. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On 2/17/2011 8:50 AM, Art Todesco wrote:
I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? Well, I did more testing. I unplugged the UPS and both computer and modem continued to function properly. So, I tried a bunch of quick unplug/plugs of the UPS. Everything continued to work. At this point, I'm tending to blame the ISP. Here's why. Verizon used to be the provider ... now, it's Frontier. I know, in Verizon days, last year, that a power outage would kill the telephone service. I get service from a remote vault about 2 miles down the road. During a long power/phone outage, I went down to the remote and talked to the telephone guy that was dispatched to the remote site. He said that the batteries were junk and Verizon didn't want to spend the money to replace them because they knew the Frontier sale was just around the corner. Funny thing, during that long power outage, DSL still worked. It apparently comes from the same remote site, but probably uses different batteries or gets its power differently. Now, I just have to monitor the outages in the future and possibly report the problems to Frontier. I've heard both good and bad about Frontier's response to problems. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 3:08*pm, Art Todesco wrote:
On 2/17/2011 12:35 PM, jamesgangnc wrote: On Feb 17, 10:41 am, *wrote: *wrote : I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. *Thus they have to switch sources. Correct. They feed line-voltage until that voltage fails to meet certain pre-defined criteria. At that point the battery/inverter is switched-in. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 9:50*am, Art Todesco wrote:
I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). *When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. *I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. *I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. *I looked at the modem and its walwart. *It says 12 VDC. *I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. *Anyone have any experience with something like this? Run your modem directly off the UPS's battery.. Jimmie |
UPS vs DSL modem
Art Todesco wrote:
On 2/17/2011 4:59 PM, HeyBub wrote: Art Todesco wrote: Well, actually, I can, because the wallwart puts out 12VDC and the cap would be across that 12 volts. I agree with one poster that measuring the current and then calculate the time gained by a particular cap. But, I think I found the real reason. I think it's the ISP. I'll post more later. The ISP? How does your ISP know when power goes off at your house? Well, out here in the country, there are very few feed lines. So, if I loose power at my house, chances are, the remote switcher will also loose power. If the batteries are not good, the site will (and has) go down. Ah, thanks for explanation! I thought for a moment there you were weird. |
UPS vs DSL modem
Art Todesco wrote: On 2/17/2011 4:59 PM, HeyBub wrote: Art Todesco wrote: Well, actually, I can, because the wallwart puts out 12VDC and the cap would be across that 12 volts. I agree with one poster that measuring the current and then calculate the time gained by a particular cap. But, I think I found the real reason. I think it's the ISP. I'll post more later. The ISP? How does your ISP know when power goes off at your house? Well, out here in the country, there are very few feed lines. So, if I loose power at my house, chances are, the remote switcher will also loose power. If the batteries are not good, the site will (and has) go down. All the telco remote terminals I've seen have a transfer switch and connection for a generator. The issues are how long with the poorly maintained batteries last and how quickly will the telco dispatch a truck with a generator to the site. I've seen a few larger RTs that do have permanent standby generators, but most do not. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On Feb 17, 5:23*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:35:07 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Feb 17, 10:41*am, Tegger wrote: jamesgangnc wrote : I assume the smaller ones keep costs and heat down by not running the power through a power supply and inverter 100% of the time. *Thus they have to switch sources. Correct. They feed line-voltage until that voltage fails to meet certain pre-defined criteria. At that point the battery/inverter is switched-in. |
UPS vs DSL modem
On 2/18/2011 9:20 AM, Pete C. wrote:
Art Todesco wrote: On 2/17/2011 4:59 PM, HeyBub wrote: Art Todesco wrote: Well, actually, I can, because the wallwart puts out 12VDC and the cap would be across that 12 volts. I agree with one poster that measuring the current and then calculate the time gained by a particular cap. But, I think I found the real reason. I think it's the ISP. I'll post more later. The ISP? How does your ISP know when power goes off at your house? Well, out here in the country, there are very few feed lines. So, if I loose power at my house, chances are, the remote switcher will also loose power. If the batteries are not good, the site will (and has) go down. All the telco remote terminals I've seen have a transfer switch and connection for a generator. The issues are how long with the poorly maintained batteries last and how quickly will the telco dispatch a truck with a generator to the site. I've seen a few larger RTs that do have permanent standby generators, but most do not. Yah, under Verizon days, we had a long phone outage on a Friday in the morning. It went on until about 9:30PM when V brought a portable generator and restored power. Even after commercial power was restored the next day, the generator stayed there for about 2 months. I think a big company in the industrial park must have squawked. Imagine not have phones all day on a Friday, even. I don't know this for sure, but, I'd bet V left the generator there until they installed new batteries, just to appease that large company. Then again, knowing V, they probably just never bothered to pick it up and bring it to there storage facility! |
UPS vs DSL modem
JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 17, 9:50 am, Art Todesco wrote: I have a computer and DSL modem tied to an old UPS (with new batteries). When I have a power failure, the computer keeps right on ticking, but I always have to restart the DSL modem. I've even restarted the modem while running on the UPS and after its restart, all was fine. I am assuming here that the switch over time is killing the modem. I looked at the modem and its walwart. It says 12 VDC. I was wondering if putting a few thousand micro farad cap across the 12 volt line might help. Anyone have any experience with something like this? Run your modem directly off the UPS's battery.. I'd think twice before trying that. There's a good chance that the battery voltage is floating far from ground. |
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