On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:18:05 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"Molly Brown" wrote
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So you'd really rather have a 19" B & W TV instead of a flat screen HD
with
a 47" screen? My family lives better with more air conditioning,
computers, bigger and better refrigerators.

The point that I was trying to make was that his evidence supporting
his postulate that things are better now is faulty for the exact same
reason that you stated of appliances being €œmore, bigger, better€� In
other words he is comparing apples with oranges. We did not have
computers or color TVs then but we also didnt have to call the repair
person or mechanic almost every day when those so called €œbetter€�
appliances and cars crammed with more and more idiotic€œ amenities€� or
€œwater and energy saver€� features break down.

I recall changing tubes in the old TVs frequently while the newer ones go
for many years with no repair. I typically drive my cars over 150,000 miles
and change spark plugs one time at 100k. Maintenance on newer cars is a bit
more complex, but it is needed far less. I remember cleaning spark plugs
every 5000 miles and replacing them at 10,000 miles, along with point and
maybe wires. And resetting the timing along the way and adjusting points
after a few thousand miles. No thanks, I'll keep my newer cars that are
cheaper to operate than any of my older cars.

My other appliances are just as good as they were in the past. You can buy
a decent basic gas or electric range for about $400 to $500. You can also
get better quality for $4000 if that is your desire.


Did you include the cost
of what you pay to the service technician or the parts supplier or
store for renewing every two years that cheap made in China garbage
when you said €œBut since we can more easily afford appliances, we can
more easily afford that bag of potatoes.

The last time I had an appliance serviced was about 20 years ago. Maybe you
need to buy better brands. I did just replace my dryer that was 29 years
old and a few years ago, we opted for a new gas range rather than fix the 25
year old one.


Agree with most of what you said.
But I don't think appliances like washers, dryers, fridges are as
good. On a cost basis they might be, but from reading reviews the
quality/longevity isn't there.
I felt compelled to buy a warranty on the washer I bought after
reading the reviews, and it wasn't cheap.
Likewise the fridge I bought - again not cheap - broke a compressor
suspension spring after 2 years and has banged ever since.
The jury is out since both washer and fridge are still running, so
maybe the reviews only highlight the unlucky.
I've noticed that with many products.
The squeaky wheels make noise.

--Vic

On 12/27/2010 6:52 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
My Dart was the first year they had electronic ignition,
1974. Wouldn't run when it was wet. Needed a starter every
year and a half. The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2
MPG. My Mom's car, a plymouth with slant 6, got about 18
MPG. I liked the slant six engine. Also easier to work on,
with the starter on top.


You probably had a cracked dual ballast resistor, a common
problem with the early units. A lot of guys carried a spare
ballast resistor in the glove box. :-)

TDD

On 12/27/2010 10:40 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/27/2010 6:52 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
My Dart was the first year they had electronic ignition,
1974.


The retrofit was highly desired, I had it in my 70.

Wouldn't run when it was wet. Needed a starter every
year and a half.

The starters were junk, my buddy who rebuilds them, wouldn't.


The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2
MPG.

Much faster. But not something you wanted to stop with drum brakes like
they had early.

My Mom's car, a plymouth with slant 6, got about 18
MPG. I liked the slant six engine. Also easier to work on,
with the starter on top.

Dead easy to work on (except for the intake/exhaust manifold combo). I'm
thinking now of a friends Chevy where the radiator had to come out to
change the starer. A Lockhead engineer had looked at it and proclaimed
it would need a cutting torch to replace the starter. Not sure whether
that says more for Chevy or Engineers.


You probably had a cracked dual ballast resistor, a common
problem with the early units. A lot of guys carried a spare
ballast resistor in the glove box. :-)

I carried a spare coil too!

Jeff


TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/27/2010 6:52 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
....

... The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2
MPG. My Mom's car, a plymouth with slant 6, got about 18
MPG. I liked the slant six engine. Also easier to work on,
with the starter on top.


You probably had a cracked dual ballast resistor, a common
problem with the early units. A lot of guys carried a spare
ballast resistor in the glove box. :-)

TDD

Something was grossly wrong, then...the 383 would do 18 mpg at highway
cruising speed in my '69 Charger w/ the 4-bbl Holley...

The 318 in the mid-70s pickup even w/ the axle ratio that made it run at
fairly high rpm compared to passenger vehicles would easily manage 15-16.

--

Something was grossly wrong, then...the 383 would do 18 mpg at highway
cruising speed in my '69 Charger w/ the 4-bbl Holley...

The 318 in the mid-70s pickup even w/ the axle ratio that made it run at
fairly high rpm compared to passenger vehicles would easily manage 15-16.

I had a '67 Newport, 4bbl, 383 cid wedge, Torqueflite, 2.92 gears. It was a
convertible. It was a boat. It was a chick magnet. It was yellow with
brown leather interior and a white top. It had a back seat the size of a
queen bed. It would cruise all day long at 80 effortlessly. On the last
trip in it, I drove from Houston to Vegas. I was incensed that a service
station on Route 66 was charging 39.9 per gallon, and it cost nearly TEN
DOLLARS to fill it. Robbers! Back then, mpg was not important.

God, I liked that car. It had two bullet holes in the front fender put
there by a stripper in Houston. Don't ask.

If I ever hit the lotto, I'd buy another. It had guts, and was long winded.

Steve

Stormin Mormon wrote:

My Dart was the first year they had electronic ignition, 1974.

Sorry, my 1973 Plymouth Satellite has factory electronic ignition.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
And in the meantime, God in Heaven hasn't changed his view
on fornication.

God promulgated no law against fornication; that is a later construct by the
Church. You can read the entire book of Leviticus and find nary a nooky
no-no.

In fact, sex was one of the three methods of entering a marriage (the other
two were by contract and by carrying away).

Steve B wrote:
Something was grossly wrong, then...the 383 would do 18 mpg at highway
cruising speed in my '69 Charger w/ the 4-bbl Holley...

The 318 in the mid-70s pickup even w/ the axle ratio that made it run at
fairly high rpm compared to passenger vehicles would easily manage 15-16.

I had a '67 Newport, 4bbl, 383 cid wedge, Torqueflite, 2.92 gears. It was a
convertible. It was a boat. It was a chick magnet. It was yellow with
brown leather interior and a white top. ...

God, I liked that car. It had two bullet holes in the front fender put
there by a stripper in Houston. Don't ask.

If I ever hit the lotto, I'd buy another. It had guts, and was long winded.
....

The Charger was the light metallic blue, white vinyl top, dark blue
interior, special-order w/ all the bells and whistles set up for
interstate driving...

Indeed, I've kicked myself ever since let it go as they're now in the
$35k and up range in any condition...

--

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 10:02:57 -0500, willshak wrote:

Dean Hoffman wrote the following:
dadiOH wrote:
Dean Hoffman wrote:
The links are to the Carpe Diem site. It's written by an economics
professor. He is comparing what Americans could buy back in the 60s
with what we can buy now. Things are better now.

http://tinyurl.com/2bal4ta

http://tinyurl.com/3y79pgq

The stuff in his examples are used in the home.

Certainly true for appliances and electronics. However, for a nickel
(each) I used to be able to buy...

A coke
I think the pop bottles were 8 oz. way back then. Does a buck
fifty sound right for the sixteen ouncers now?

1940s - Pepsi Cola - 12 oz - .05 cents + 2 cent bottle deposit
Coca Cola - 6 oz. - same price and deposit as above
Pepsi jingle.
"Pepsi-Cola hits the spot. Twelve full ounces, that's a lot. Twice as
much for a nickel, too, Pepsi-Cola is the drink for you."
Times were tough back then so we kids always bought the Pepsi.
Today, it's Coke.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But not the cola. ;-)

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 23:52:29 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

?
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
When I got my first job, in 1980. The min wage was 2.35 an
hour. Gasoline, can't remember. I think about 80 cents.
Figure about 20 minutes wage for a gal of gas.

Now, the min wage is about 7.75 an hour, and gas is 3.25 a
gal. Using these numbers, it's about 25 minutes to a galon,
now.

--

When I got my first real job in 1963, minimum wage was about 1.35 and a
gallon of gas was 25¢. Damn, that was much cheaper.

Your boss probably thinks so, too. ;-)

My first real job (other than paper routes and lawn mowing) was in college;
1970 at $1.50/hr, until the state figured out that they had to pay me the
federal minimum of $1.60. Gas is far cheaper now, though Obama is trying his
best to change that.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:56:30 -0500, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 17:13:38 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Dean Hoffman wrote:
The links are to the Carpe Diem site. It's written by an economics
professor. He is comparing what Americans could buy back in the 60s
with what we can buy now. Things are better now.

http://tinyurl.com/2bal4ta

http://tinyurl.com/3y79pgq

The stuff in his examples are used in the home.

Certainly true for appliances and electronics. However, for a nickel (each)
I used to be able to buy...

A coke
A candy bar
A phone call
A cup of coffee. With refills.

A nickel then requires about $0.40 now. Got any of those items for $0.40
recently?

You'd probably burn up $10 worth of gas looking for a pay phone in my
neck of the woods. But can you imagine telling someone they could
pay $30 a month for a phone they could carry around with them- and
talk coast to coast for as long as you wanted for whatever the
average hourly pay was in those days? [$3-4?]


About the time all those things were a nickel, I got my first job.
$.60 an hour planting trees. I bet that job pays $8.00 now.
^ Mexicans

*These* are the good *new* days.

You bet!

On 27 Dec 2010 06:53:13 GMT, Earl wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:

?
"Molly Brown" wrote

Mr. Mark J. Perry should take off his idiot cap and compare how many
hours we have to work to buy the same EXACT things we use today with
the same EXACT things we used then. You can no longer buy the same
exact appliance you used then; in fact I wish you could because it
lasted ten times longer.

The ole Philco still is running well at my mom's house.


So you'd really rather have a 19" B & W TV instead of a flat screen HD
with a 47" screen? My family lives better with more air
conditioning, computers, bigger and better refrigerators.

Perhaps he doesn't need this stuff to have a good life. My 19 inch TV died
and I bought the 20 inch. I don't like the large ones where you can see
the pores on the peoples' faces.

Your room is too small.

Here are some examples of some things that he
REALLY should have compared instead:
A five pound bag of Potatoes
A pound of 20% fat Ground beef
A pound of plain rice
Seeing a doctor
Seeing a dentist
Seeing a lawyer
Trash pick-up service (once a week)

The guys would walk up to the house and open the garage door. Drag out
your trash can at the street. Come back and return the can and close the
door.

I can manage one can, owned by the city, on wheels.

A kilowatt of electricity used
A cubic foot of water used
A cubic foot of natural gas used
All these have stayed exactly the same.

But since we can more easily afford appliances, we can more easily
afford that bag of potatoes. The $5 doctor visit is now $150+ though.



I remember the doctor making house calls.

So do I, shudder.

Yes, I went through a lot of ballast resistors. Those were
one of the issues. Even the pharmacist next door (who is
totally not a repair guy) carried a spare ballast resistor.
In the glove compartment.

What finally helped was scraping and sanding the rust off
the electronic ignition module, and remounting it on new
metal.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...

You probably had a cracked dual ballast resistor, a common
problem with the early units. A lot of guys carried a spare
ballast resistor in the glove box. :-)

TDD

I can't remember all the spare parts I carried. Enough for a
full tune up, of course. One time on vacation about 1,000
miles from home I got to change a couple spark plugs on my
Dodge van, with the slant 6 engine. I had two new plugs to
put in, as it happened.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jeff Thies"
wrote in message ...

You probably had a cracked dual ballast resistor, a common
problem with the early units. A lot of guys carried a
spare
ballast resistor in the glove box. :-)

I carried a spare coil too!

Jeff

?


The ole Philco still is running well at my mom's house.

And sucking down enough power to buy a new and bigger refrigerator every
four years or so with the savings. I replace an old unit and save $10 a
month. It paid for itself in under four years and that was 6 or 7 years ago
so I'm well ahead.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:23:29 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:18:05 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"Molly Brown" wrote
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So you'd really rather have a 19" B & W TV instead of a flat screen HD
with
a 47" screen? My family lives better with more air conditioning,
computers, bigger and better refrigerators.

The point that I was trying to make was that his evidence supporting
his postulate that things are better now is faulty for the exact same
reason that you stated of appliances being “more, bigger, better” In
other words he is comparing apples with oranges. We did not have
computers or color TVs then but we also didn’t have to call the repair
person or mechanic almost every day when those so called “better”
appliances and cars crammed with more and more idiotic“ amenities” or
“water and energy saver” features break down.

I recall changing tubes in the old TVs frequently while the newer ones go
for many years with no repair. I typically drive my cars over 150,000 miles
and change spark plugs one time at 100k. Maintenance on newer cars is a bit
more complex, but it is needed far less. I remember cleaning spark plugs
every 5000 miles and replacing them at 10,000 miles, along with point and
maybe wires. And resetting the timing along the way and adjusting points
after a few thousand miles. No thanks, I'll keep my newer cars that are
cheaper to operate than any of my older cars.

My other appliances are just as good as they were in the past. You can buy
a decent basic gas or electric range for about $400 to $500. You can also
get better quality for $4000 if that is your desire.


Did you include the cost
of what you pay to the service technician or the parts supplier or
store for renewing every two years that cheap made in China garbage
when you said “But since we can more easily afford appliances, we can
more easily afford that bag of potatoes.

The last time I had an appliance serviced was about 20 years ago. Maybe you
need to buy better brands. I did just replace my dryer that was 29 years
old and a few years ago, we opted for a new gas range rather than fix the 25
year old one.


Agree with most of what you said.
But I don't think appliances like washers, dryers, fridges are as
good. On a cost basis they might be, but from reading reviews the
quality/longevity isn't there.

It must be noted that these are self-selected surveys.

I felt compelled to buy a warranty on the washer I bought after
reading the reviews, and it wasn't cheap.

We didn't buy a front-loader because of these reviews. The agitatorless
top-loaders didn't seem to have equivalent problems and the benefits are
similar.

Likewise the fridge I bought - again not cheap - broke a compressor
suspension spring after 2 years and has banged ever since.

We didn't buy an LG fridge (French door + two drawers), because of reviews.
Rather we went with the Electrolux French door model. We did buy the extended
warranty because of the electronics. Manufacturers often get electronics
wrong. I never would have bought the warranty otherwise.

The jury is out since both washer and fridge are still running, so
maybe the reviews only highlight the unlucky.
I've noticed that with many products.
The squeaky wheels make noise.

Yes, as with any self-selected survey, the negatives tend to outweigh the
positives.

On 2010-12-27, Jeff Thies wrote:

The starters were junk, my buddy who rebuilds them, wouldn't.

Weird. I had just the opposite experience. Through 2 vans, 2 full
size sedans, and 2 compacts (all pre-'75), I never replaced one
starter. GM starters, OTOH, I replaced with boring regularity. I
even replaced 2 newly installed rebuilds that wouldn't work.

The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2

Nonsense. I was getting 18mpg in a full-sized van w/ stock cam.
Granted, it dropped to 10mpg with an RV cam, but that was expected.

Dead easy to work on (except for the intake/exhaust manifold
combo).

I assume you mean the slant six.

As for the B* (full) vans w/ V8s, easiest vehicle to work on I've over
known. Forty mins to change water pump (air tools). Forty-five mins
to change auto trans in driveway. Two hrs to pull both heads in
driving rainstorm from front seat. I could set the timing in real
time (back off till pinging ceases!) while driving up steep grade in
105+ Summer temps. Change both front discs in couple hours. After
owning several vehicles since then, including a Ford full size van,
thinking of buying another Dodge B* van.

nb

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 07:54:53 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote:

On 12/26/2010 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The links are to the Carpe Diem site. It's written by an economics
professor. He is comparing what Americans could buy back in the 60s with
what we can buy now. Things are better now.

http://tinyurl.com/2bal4ta

http://tinyurl.com/3y79pgq


Ah technology. They really have figured out how to make things cheaper.
Those TVs were all handwired and had lots of large components and little
plastic. Look at all the woodworking!

No doubt that the oven was built tougher too.

But that is the way it is, they figure out how to minimize materials
and costs and the price falls due to competition. It's rather dramatic.
When you first make a new product you want it to work (and it is
overbuilt), later you want to beat/match your competitors on pricing.
There is always a premium on new.

Now for things where the amount of US labor has remained relatively
constant, it's a different story. Bread, eggs and coffee shop coffee
being often cited.

You think bread and eggs are made the same way as they were 40 years ago?
Coffee shops are serving more than just coffee, and yes, that has changed
substantially, too.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

I understand the current advice given women is to carry a condom in their
purse because, well, you never know what might happen. Last year I had a
date with a woman of a certain age who carried LEVITRA in her purse
because, well, you never know what might happen.


Where does a woman get Levitra? I thought that was a prescription drug.

Maybe she is a HEAD nurse and can supply herself.

On 12/27/2010 3:39 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-12-27, Jeff wrote:

The starters were junk, my buddy who rebuilds them, wouldn't.

Weird. I had just the opposite experience. Through 2 vans, 2 full
size sedans, and 2 compacts (all pre-'75), I never replaced one
starter.

I can only vouch for the slant 6 starter. I just changed it once. Not
worth rebuilding from what I gather. Seems like my 65 T-Bird ate starters.


GM starters, OTOH, I replaced with boring regularity. I
even replaced 2 newly installed rebuilds that wouldn't work.

The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2

Nonsense. I was getting 18mpg in a full-sized van w/ stock cam.
Granted, it dropped to 10mpg with an RV cam, but that was expected.


I might put a 318 back in. They have retro turbos for the slant 6, but
why not just use a 318 or something in the line like a 340. If you are
going to have something in the old Mopar family, it should move like
one! I remember mileage in the mid/upper teens with the V8, with a
quadrajet and a low end Edelbrock. Different car than the Dart I have
now. Wish I had a Feather Duster.

My Dart died shortly after I did the super 6 conversion (two barrel,
different intake/exhaust). It's been down since.


Dead easy to work on (except for the intake/exhaust manifold
combo).


I assume you mean the slant six.


And in particular, the starter, and not a lot of vacuum lines or other
wiring. Not much in there, lot of room around the motor. My
understanding is the slant 6 came out of an industrial engine. Something
designed to pump oil 24/7. Lot of low end torque.

As for the B* (full) vans w/ V8s, easiest vehicle to work on I've over
known. Forty mins to change water pump (air tools). Forty-five mins
to change auto trans in driveway. Two hrs to pull both heads in
driving rainstorm from front seat.

How bout that!

I could set the timing in real
time (back off till pinging ceases!) while driving up steep grade in
105+ Summer temps. Change both front discs in couple hours. After
owning several vehicles since then, including a Ford full size van,
thinking of buying another Dodge B* van.


Workhorses. The Caravan is another story.

Jeff

nb

I can only vouch for the slant 6 starter. I just changed it once. Not
worth rebuilding from what I gather. Seems like my 65 T-Bird ate starters.

In the flavor of the original post, I wonder what a 65 T-Bird starter goes
for today .................

Steve

On 12/27/2010 3:41 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 07:54:53 -0500, Jeff wrote:

On 12/26/2010 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The links are to the Carpe Diem site. It's written by an economics
professor. He is comparing what Americans could buy back in the 60s with
what we can buy now. Things are better now.

http://tinyurl.com/2bal4ta

http://tinyurl.com/3y79pgq


Ah technology. They really have figured out how to make things cheaper.
Those TVs were all handwired and had lots of large components and little
plastic. Look at all the woodworking!

No doubt that the oven was built tougher too.

But that is the way it is, they figure out how to minimize materials
and costs and the price falls due to competition. It's rather dramatic.
When you first make a new product you want it to work (and it is
overbuilt), later you want to beat/match your competitors on pricing.
There is always a premium on new.

Now for things where the amount of US labor has remained relatively
constant, it's a different story. Bread, eggs and coffee shop coffee
being often cited.

You think bread and eggs are made the same way as they were 40 years ago?


No but they are still more labor intensive than many other things per
cost. Granted much of that is shipping and stocking now.

I have bought quite a few Amish eggs though, and they haven't
changed, maybe a bit cheaper per dozen.

Coffee shops are serving more than just coffee, and yes, that has changed
substantially, too.

I've got no complaints!

Jeff

Stormin Mormon wrote:
And in the meantime, God in Heaven hasn't changed his view
on fornication.

Except if you belong to some cults and sects where it is allowed, promoted,
and required for sainthood. Gods of the household may do as a god wishes.

Steve

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:21:27 -0500, "Colbyt"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
om...

I understand the current advice given women is to carry a condom in their
purse because, well, you never know what might happen. Last year I had a
date with a woman of a certain age who carried LEVITRA in her purse
because, well, you never know what might happen.


Where does a woman get Levitra? I thought that was a prescription drug.

From the Internet, of course! ;-)

Maybe she is a HEAD nurse and can supply herself.

I thought they only supplied doctors. ;-)

On 12/27/2010 2:39 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-12-27, Jeff wrote:

The starters were junk, my buddy who rebuilds them, wouldn't.

Weird. I had just the opposite experience. Through 2 vans, 2 full
size sedans, and 2 compacts (all pre-'75), I never replaced one
starter. GM starters, OTOH, I replaced with boring regularity. I
even replaced 2 newly installed rebuilds that wouldn't work.

The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2

Nonsense. I was getting 18mpg in a full-sized van w/ stock cam.
Granted, it dropped to 10mpg with an RV cam, but that was expected.

Dead easy to work on (except for the intake/exhaust manifold
combo).

I assume you mean the slant six.

As for the B* (full) vans w/ V8s, easiest vehicle to work on I've over
known. Forty mins to change water pump (air tools). Forty-five mins
to change auto trans in driveway. Two hrs to pull both heads in
driving rainstorm from front seat. I could set the timing in real
time (back off till pinging ceases!) while driving up steep grade in
105+ Summer temps. Change both front discs in couple hours. After
owning several vehicles since then, including a Ford full size van,
thinking of buying another Dodge B* van.

nb

The good old Doge van went away in 2003 replaced by the Mercedes-Benz
based Dodge Sprinter which is a nice vehicle which I'd love to own.
I have an 89 B-100 that needs a transmission and I really want to fix
it because I need it. I had a 1980 model that ran out of gas on the
interstate so I took off the doghouse, took the cover off the air
cleaner and used whatever flammable aerosol spray to spray into the
carb to run the van down the shoulder of the highway until I got
to an exit and coasted to a service station where I used starting fluid
to get up the driveway to a gas pump. :-)

TDD

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:55:22 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote:

On 12/27/2010 3:41 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 07:54:53 -0500, Jeff wrote:

On 12/26/2010 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The links are to the Carpe Diem site. It's written by an economics
professor. He is comparing what Americans could buy back in the 60s with
what we can buy now. Things are better now.

http://tinyurl.com/2bal4ta

http://tinyurl.com/3y79pgq


Ah technology. They really have figured out how to make things cheaper.
Those TVs were all handwired and had lots of large components and little
plastic. Look at all the woodworking!

No doubt that the oven was built tougher too.

But that is the way it is, they figure out how to minimize materials
and costs and the price falls due to competition. It's rather dramatic.
When you first make a new product you want it to work (and it is
overbuilt), later you want to beat/match your competitors on pricing.
There is always a premium on new.

Now for things where the amount of US labor has remained relatively
constant, it's a different story. Bread, eggs and coffee shop coffee
being often cited.

You think bread and eggs are made the same way as they were 40 years ago?


No but they are still more labor intensive than many other things per
cost. Granted much of that is shipping and stocking now.

The labor needed for either, I'm sure is a *lot* less than it was forty years
ago. That said, eggs are still cheap as hell. Bread is, too, if you discount
"specialty" bread (though it's all we eat - coffee is much the same).

I have bought quite a few Amish eggs though, and they haven't
changed, maybe a bit cheaper per dozen.

A bit of a warped market. We have Amish furniture, which cost somewhat less
than decent furniture but is heirloom quality. Again, a warp in the normal
market.

Coffee shops are serving more than just coffee, and yes, that has changed
substantially, too.

I've got no complaints!

I do. Starbucks tastes like crap! ;-)

On 12/27/2010 1:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
Something was grossly wrong, then...the 383 would do 18 mpg at highway
cruising speed in my '69 Charger w/ the 4-bbl Holley...

The 318 in the mid-70s pickup even w/ the axle ratio that made it run at
fairly high rpm compared to passenger vehicles would easily manage 15-16.

I had a '67 Newport, 4bbl, 383 cid wedge, Torqueflite, 2.92 gears. It was a
convertible. It was a boat. It was a chick magnet. It was yellow with
brown leather interior and a white top. It had a back seat the size of a
queen bed. It would cruise all day long at 80 effortlessly. On the last
trip in it, I drove from Houston to Vegas. I was incensed that a service
station on Route 66 was charging 39.9 per gallon, and it cost nearly TEN
DOLLARS to fill it. Robbers! Back then, mpg was not important.

God, I liked that car. It had two bullet holes in the front fender put
there by a stripper in Houston. Don't ask.

If I ever hit the lotto, I'd buy another. It had guts, and was long winded.

Steve



Our family had a 67 Newport Custom four door aircraft carrier. With
nine kids, my parents needed large vehicles to ferry us around. It
was not the only large vehicle we had. Back in the 60's I could
cruse the interstate at 100mph all day long, it was an amazing highway
vehicle. :-)

TDD

On 12/27/2010 1:28 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

My Dart was the first year they had electronic ignition, 1974.

Sorry, my 1973 Plymouth Satellite has factory electronic ignition.

I thought the Road Runner and other Mopars with the high performance
engines got it in 72 then it went to all the other lines in 73.

TDD

Colbyt wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

I understand the current advice given women is to carry a condom in
their purse because, well, you never know what might happen. Last
year I had a date with a woman of a certain age who carried LEVITRA
in her purse because, well, you never know what might happen.


Where does a woman get Levitra? I thought that was a prescription
drug.
Maybe she is a HEAD nurse and can supply herself.

Moan!

She said she got it from her next door neighbor, a physician. They were
professional samples.

So, what the heck, I sampled her. Purely in a professional manner*.

As an aside, she had to be conflicted. She was a flaming liberal with a
concealed handgun permit.

She showed me her .38 special and her 36D.

I wasn't worried, though, I carried a .40 Glock with 17 rounds to her paltry
six. I was still outnumbered two to one. Mine was firmer, though, thanks to
the Levitra.

------------
* She offered her honor,
So I honored her offer.
Then all night long
It was on her and off her.

On 2010-12-27, The Daring Dufas wrote:


interstate so I took off the doghouse.....

Hee hee....

I couldn take mine off and flip it into the back in about 20 secs!
I've worked on Chevy vans and owned a '91 Ford. Due to the carpeting,
the Ford took over 2 hrs to get the cover off. The Chevy left my arm
bleeding, jes changing the plugs!

took the cover off the air
cleaner and used whatever flammable aerosol spray to spray into the
carb to run the van down the shoulder of the highway until I got
to an exit and coasted to a service station where I used starting fluid
to get up the driveway to a gas pump. :-)

BTDT!! On REALLY cold mornings, used to have to use starter fluid.
The whole process, from removing cover and filter top, starting,
replacing all, took about one minute!

Thanks for the heads up on the differences. I've been looking at 90's
B* fully customized vans. All seem to go for less than $4K, in CO, no
matter how elaborate or good a shape, so good deals to be had.

I was hoping to find a B series ('99-2002) Ram with the 4.7 Powertech
engine, but they seem rare as hens teeth in the vans. I'm pretty much
beyond my old wrenching days, but can still see a EFI Powertech with
aftermarket turbo/supercharger (I live at over 8000ft elev) in my
dreams.

nb

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 14:37:05 -0600, "
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:23:29 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:



The jury is out since both washer and fridge are still running, so
maybe the reviews only highlight the unlucky.
I've noticed that with many products.
The squeaky wheels make noise.

Yes, as with any self-selected survey, the negatives tend to outweigh the
positives.

I'm at the point where I automatically discount most of the product
failures and mainly look at positives about useful features and such.
Came to that pass about a year ago when I built a new PC.
On Newegg the ASUS motherboard I wanted had an unusual amount of bad
reviews. So I moved on to look at others, Gigabyte,etc.
They also all had way too many bad reviews.
Well then, I can't build the new computer I need?
So I just bought the ASUS and have had no issues. My brother bought
the same board and has also been happy with it.
There were maybe a couple hundred reviews for the board.
They probably sold tens of thousands.

Another problem is model changes.
I just went back to leave a good review for the board, since I've had
it for a year. Model is gone from Newegg.
The washing machine I bought at Sears a couple years is gone from
their site too. I did a so far so good review on that at 14 months.
I'm no different than others. I sometimes don't get around to doing a
positive review. But if I get screwed somehow you can bet your bippy
I'll write that up.

--Vic

I'm who wrote about the 8 getting 10 1/2 MPG. That's my
memory from 1982 and 83, when I drove the car. No, I don't
have my gas reciepts and notes from back then.

From memory, my 6 cylinder Dodge van with slant 6 got about
12 MPG, and the 8 cylinder I later had, ran about 9 MPG.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"notbob"
wrote in message
...

The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2

Nonsense. I was getting 18mpg in a full-sized van w/ stock
cam.
Granted, it dropped to 10mpg with an RV cam, but that was
expected.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
My Dart was the first year they had electronic ignition,
1974. Wouldn't run when it was wet. Needed a starter every
year and a half. The 8 cylinder 318 engine got about 10 1/2
MPG. My Mom's car, a plymouth with slant 6, got about 18
MPG. I liked the slant six engine. Also easier to work on,
with the starter on top.


I had one as a teen too...I carried one of those square ceramic solinoids in
the glove box at all times and never shut it off in the rain till I got to
where I was gonna be awhile or home..Piece of **** hated the extreme cold
here in Maine as well...Traded it even for a 69 Pontac Bonniville with a
huge back seat...Plenty of leg room IYKWIM...LOL...Ahh , the 80's...
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

That Dart with the slant six was a damn good car. My buddy
had one. It
wasn't the hot rod of the day, but it had wheels, and the
heater and radio
worked. Life was good. We didn't have to ride the bus.
Wish I had one
today.

Steve

When I first got the car, my friend Geordie and I went to
get some parts for it. Went to Napa, on Merchants Blvd, in
Rochester. He asked for a set of points. The parts counter
guy said no points listed, they ended in 73. He did buy a
set of 1973 points, but the distributor turned out to be
reluctor and coil, so we didn't need them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
On 12/27/2010 1:28 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

My Dart was the first year they had electronic ignition,
1974.

Sorry, my 1973 Plymouth Satellite has factory electronic
ignition.

I thought the Road Runner and other Mopars with the high
performance
engines got it in 72 then it went to all the other lines in
73.

TDD

Yep, that's the Chrysler I remember. Sometimes won't start
when it's wet. And the ballast resistors.

Anyone else have a bad fusible link, near the battery? My
parents had a big old land cruiser of an Imperial LeBaron.
Bad fusible link "bullet" connector. I'll know, when someone
tells me the symptoms of that...

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"benick" wrote in message
...


I had one as a teen too...I carried one of those square
ceramic solinoids in
the glove box at all times and never shut it off in the rain
till I got to
where I was gonna be awhile or home..Piece of **** hated the
extreme cold
here in Maine as well...Traded it even for a 69 Pontac
Bonniville with a
huge back seat...Plenty of leg room IYKWIM...LOL...Ahh , the
80's...

Good double entendre. I searched for a good zinger in reply,
but came up short. I just couldn't get one off, in time. I
didn't try hard enough. Mabe I can get a dirty book, drug in
here from some where. "THAT's THE IDEA!!!!" he ejaculated!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Colbyt" wrote in message
...

Where does a woman get Levitra? I thought that was a
prescription drug.

Maybe she is a HEAD nurse and can supply herself.

Fornication for sainthood? Man, that's some messed up cult.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

Stormin Mormon wrote:
And in the meantime, God in Heaven hasn't changed his
view
on fornication.

Except if you belong to some cults and sects where it is
allowed, promoted,
and required for sainthood. Gods of the household may do as
a god wishes.

Steve

"The Daring Dufas" wrote

aircraft carrier.



If there was two words to describe that car, those would be two of the best.

Steve

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 20:17:15 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/26/2010 5:22 PM, Frank wrote:
On 12/26/2010 6:04 PM, Jerry - OHIO wrote:
And in '64' gas was 32.9 and smokes were $ . 32 a pack.
Jerry



In '65 heating oil was 15 cents a gallon but when I was a teenager in
the '50's, 18 cents would get you either a gallon of gas, a quart of
milk, a loaf of bread or a pack of smokes.

Back in '71 gasoline was 22 cents per gallon at rural service stations,
the name brand stations in town were charging 35 cents per gallon. This
was in Northeast Alabamastan. :-)

TDD


The cheapest gas I remember my dad buying was a dime a gallon. That
was for farm use (no tax) and during a price war. It was probably in
the mid 1960s but I don't remember for sure.
In the late sixties in Ontario Canada I pumped hundreds of thousands
of gallons at a mean price of about 46.9 cents a gallon - with short
price wars being fairly common and prices occaisionally dropping below
a dime.
A 10 oz coke was a dime
A good candy bar was a dime
The average car was totally scrap in 6 to 8 years.(sure, it only cost
$2000)
You could buy a pretty nice house for $20,000
If I remember correctly a good bicycle tire was about $4.50, and
tires for my Mini were $17 at Canadian Tire.
A decent used (10 or 15 year old) bike could be had for $15, and as a
teanager I could only dream of a new one.
The grocery bill for our family of 8 kids was $20 to $25 per week, not
counting a side of beef and a few chickens bought off the farm, and
the veggies we grew in the garden.

And $5000 a year was a decent wage.

Today $30,000 is just scraping by, and $60,000 is not considered to be
a lot.

A decent house is $200,000
A decent car is $20,000. A good used 6 year old car is about $6000,
and 12 year old cars are very common on the roads, even in the rust
belt.
A decent bike tire is about $10.00 and a brand new dual suspension
mountain bike can be bought for under $200. When it's 2 years old it's
worth about $20.00 unless you pick it out of someone's trash because
it needs $50 worth of parts to make it into a $20.00 bike.
Tires for My Mystique are $100 each.
A case of 12 pops (10 oz cans) can be bought for $4 if you shop
around, or a 2 liter bottle for $.99 (unless you just run into the
convenience store and pay $3.00). A candy bar is $.69 to $1.50
$20 won't fill a grocery bag today, and you pay a nickel for the bag.

So you earn, on average, something like 10 times as much today.
The house costs about 10 times as much.
The car costs about 10 times as much and lasts 2 or 3 times as long.
At 6 years of age, the car is worth about 50 to 100 times what it was
back then (my first 8 year old car cost me $60 - my last one $5000)
Gas is roughly 10 times the price, and the average car goes almost
twice as far on that gallon.


So I guess you win some and you loose some.

The big difference comes in technology goods. There we are winning
hands down, even though the product replacement cycle has sped up
something awfull

Things that were a luxury in the late sixties can be bought for less
today than then - and they are so much "better" feature-wise, but
their average lifespan is significantly lower.

Radios, TVs, Stereo equipment etc can often be bought for less today
than in the late sixties. Instead of being made by your buddy's dad or
uncle in the plant across town or in the next city, it's made half way
around the world, and if and when it breaks 2, or 5, or 12 years down
the road there is no repair-shop locally to repair it,and repair parts
are generally not available even when they are a year old - and if
there is, it is cheaper to replace it. Generally it is discarded
before it is 5 years old.

My first electronic calculator in the early seventies was over $35 and
all it could do was add, multiply, subtract and devide - if you could
keep batteries in it.

Today a $2 calculator will run for a couple years on a battery, do
square roots, metric conversions, etc and has 2 or 3 memories.
A $30 calculator is a full programmable scientific calculator with a
solar cell and a battery you never need to replace.

And computers, and televisions, and mobile telephones, and power
tools, and cameras - you name it.


Where we are losing - and will loose even more in the near future is
the cost of things like water, and many essential services, as well
as health care (when not covered by government insurance)
Pharmaceuticals, etc.

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 23:52:29 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
When I got my first job, in 1980. The min wage was 2.35 an
hour. Gasoline, can't remember. I think about 80 cents.
Figure about 20 minutes wage for a gal of gas.

Now, the min wage is about 7.75 an hour, and gas is 3.25 a
gal. Using these numbers, it's about 25 minutes to a galon,
now.

--

When I got my first real job in 1963, minimum wage was about 1.35 and a
gallon of gas was 25¢. Damn, that was much cheaper.
Back in '69 I worked for a lot less than that.