Canadian property bubble, followed by general collapse due to
dependency on exports to the USA.
After that Australia.
Saw it on Russia Today so it must be right. Kieser report.
He's been pretty accurate so far. ?

harry wrote:

Canadian property bubble,

House and condo prices have declined during the past 6 months to a year,
or have showed zero growth during that time frame.

The differences betweed US and Canadian residential real-estate markets
a

1) No ARM's, no no-money-down mortgages here in Canada.
2) Anything less than 25% down requires mortgage insurance.
3) Very little speculation done by the average home owner (ie - very
few second homes being purchased out of pure speculation)
4) We don't have the equivalent to Nevada, Florida, or other
locations where second homes used as vacation homes can be
built
5) We can't deduct mortgage payments from income tax, which limits
speculative home buying and bubble-forming price increases.
6) Our banks did not re-package mortgages into fancy derivative-
based products, and because of that our banks did not and do
not cut corners when qualifying potential mortgage borowers.

You can't look at the headlines about Vancouver or Toronto's high house
prices and extraplolate them to the rest of Canada.

followed by general collapse due to dependency on exports to the
USA.

We've had the loss of the Auto Pact, followed by 3 consecutive years of
the Canadian dollar being over-valued by 15% because it's been pegged at
95 - 99% of a US dollar. Still lots of oil, natural gas and electricity
being shipped to the US from Canada, but our economy is slowing becoming
less export-driven and more domestically driven.

After that Australia.
Saw it on Russia Today so it must be right. Kieser report.
He's been pretty accurate so far. ?

Don't count on it. Look for more pain from a handful of Euro-zone
countries way before Canada or Australia.

Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed by
US-made guns flooding south across their border.

Conditions in the US will also get worse - "security" budgets will
continue to spiral out of control as the US wages it's "War on Terror"
(tm) against it's own citizens. The "War on Terror" is a lot like
fighting cancer with chemo-therapy: It doesn't seem to matter how many
good people you harm (financially, psycologically, morally) in order to
detect, apprehend or (rarely) kill a handful of bad people. The end
result will be to create a culture of control. What you see now is just
the beginning.

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans consume
yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow your gov't to
destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and liberty your country was
founded on. We watch your local TV news, your national 6:30 pm network
news (which reported last night that your restaurants and grocery stores
are now on the lookout for food poisoning performed by home-grown
terrorists). If I believed in a god, I would be thanking him that I'm a
Canadian living in Canada.

On Dec 21, 3:00*pm, Home Guy wrote:
harry wrote:
Canadian property bubble,

House and condo prices have declined during the past 6 months to a year,
or have showed zero growth during that time frame.

The differences betweed US and Canadian residential real-estate markets
a

1) No ARM's, no no-money-down mortgages here in Canada.
2) Anything less than 25% down requires mortgage insurance.
3) Very little speculation done by the average home owner (ie - very
* *few second homes being purchased out of pure speculation)
4) We don't have the equivalent to Nevada, Florida, or other
* *locations where second homes used as vacation homes can be
* *built
5) We can't deduct mortgage payments from income tax, which limits
* *speculative home buying and bubble-forming price increases.
6) Our banks did not re-package mortgages into fancy derivative-
* *based products, and because of that our banks did not and do
* *not cut corners when qualifying potential mortgage borowers.

You can't look at the headlines about Vancouver or Toronto's high house
prices and extraplolate them to the rest of Canada.

followed by general collapse due to dependency on exports to the
USA.

We've had the loss of the Auto Pact, followed by 3 consecutive years of
the Canadian dollar being over-valued by 15% because it's been pegged at
95 - 99% of a US dollar. *Still lots of oil, natural gas and electricity
being shipped to the US from Canada, but our economy is slowing becoming
less export-driven and more domestically driven.

After that Australia.
Saw it on Russia Today so it must be right. Kieser report.
He's been pretty accurate so far. *?

Don't count on it. *Look for more pain from a handful of Euro-zone
countries way before Canada or Australia.

Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed by
US-made guns flooding south across their border.

Conditions in the US will also get worse - "security" budgets will
continue to spiral out of control as the US wages it's "War on Terror"
(tm) against it's own citizens. *The "War on Terror" is a lot like
fighting cancer with chemo-therapy: *It doesn't seem to matter how many
good people you harm (financially, psycologically, morally) in order to
detect, apprehend or (rarely) kill a handful of bad people. *The end
result will be to create a culture of control. *What you see now is just
the beginning.

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans consume
yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow your gov't to
destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and liberty your country was
founded on. *We watch your local TV news, your national 6:30 pm network
news (which reported last night that your restaurants and grocery stores
are now on the lookout for food poisoning performed by home-grown
terrorists). *If I believed in a god, I would be thanking him that I'm a
Canadian living in Canada.

I am from the UK. I love to tease the Yanks. They can't grasp what is
wrong with their cult.
But good post. Interesting. I think the PIGS (Portugal, Italy,
Ireland, Greece and Spain are well down the tube. They will end up
cut away from the Euro.

"harry" wrote in message
...
Canadian property bubble, followed by general collapse due to
dependency on exports to the USA.
After that Australia.
Saw it on Russia Today so it must be right. Kieser report.
He's been pretty accurate so far. ?


I believe the next bubble to burst will be gold prices. Unlike other
commodities, gold has little or no industrial value - about the only use is
jewelry. Therefore, gold is not a consumable commodity such as food (corn,
beans, beef, etc.), aluminum, silver, oil, etc. Therefore, the amount of
gold in the world is relative constant - a small amount is being mined, but
very little. Since the supply is constant, and there is little industrial
or practical use for gold, the only thing that keeps it going up is emotion,
fear, and greed.

People are afraid of inflation, so they buy gold (it won't help), but in
actuality, inflation is not our (US) problem - It is DEFLATION. Yes, in
spite of the fact that you see food and gasoline go up, we are in a
deflationary period due to first, home prices dropping (they will drop
another 12 to 15 percent), and more recently, commercial real estate bubble
breaking. We will probably be in a deflationary position for perhaps the
next eight to ten years. Long before then, the gold bubble will break.

My name is Bob-tx, and I approve of this message.

On 12/21/2010 7:46 AM harry spake thus:

I am from the UK. I love to tease the Yanks.

We get it. We get it. We get it.

They can't grasp what is wrong with their cult.

'K, true 'nuff.

But good post. Interesting. I think the PIGS (Portugal, Italy,
Ireland, Greece and Spain are well down the tube. They will end up
cut away from the Euro.

So tell us, Harry, why do you think you Yurpeens are all that much
better than us Merkins?

OK, granted, you (UK) have a *huge* advantage with your National Health
Service, something that'll probably never happen here. Along with some
other *vestigial* remains of, let's call it what it is, socialism.

But clearly the *entire world* is now going the way of the U.S., which
is to say in a totally neoliberal, market-driven, profits-uber-alles
direction, where if things go bad because of speculation and bubble
markets, the gov't imposes austerity measures (witness: Ireland), the
general public be damned.

After all, Harry, you've got those mobs of students in London smashing
things up, right? I can certainly understand why they're out there.

So no, it's not just the Big Bad U.S. that's to blame. Though arguably
we were the *origin* of the problem, what with the "American Century"
and all, it's now metastasized to the entire world. Including China, I'd
say.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Home Guy wrote in :

harry wrote:

Canadian property bubble,

House and condo prices have declined during the past 6 months to a
year, or have showed zero growth during that time frame.

The differences betweed US and Canadian residential real-estate
markets a

1) No ARM's, no no-money-down mortgages here in Canada.
2) Anything less than 25% down requires mortgage insurance.
3) Very little speculation done by the average home owner (ie - very
few second homes being purchased out of pure speculation)
4) We don't have the equivalent to Nevada, Florida, or other
locations where second homes used as vacation homes can be
built
5) We can't deduct mortgage payments from income tax, which limits
speculative home buying and bubble-forming price increases.
6) Our banks did not re-package mortgages into fancy derivative-
based products, and because of that our banks did not and do
not cut corners when qualifying potential mortgage borowers.



There are more differences:

7) Canadian homebuyers cannot refinance an existing mortgage at a
new, lower rate, without paying a penalty to do so. That penalty
is formulated to make it financially unfeasible to break the
original contract.

8) Canadian homebuyers cannot escape their legal obligation to
fulfill the terms of the contract (i.e.: pay it off) by simply
handing in the keys and walking away from the home.

9) Unlike the US, Canada does not use legislative and policy measures
to force banks to tease people into real-estate debt.


The US housing bubble was created by the shiploads of artificial credit
conjured up by the Fed. Canada also creates artificial credit, but not to
the same extent, and without accompanying legislative idiocies like the
Community Reinvestment Act.



--
Tegger

Home Guy wrote:

Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed by
US-made guns flooding south across their border.

Mexico will continue to deteriorate due to it's epidemic level
corruption. US made guns have nothing to do with it, the cartels causing
trouble there have plenty of other sources of guns, and indeed the media
tries to play up US guns being smuggled into Mexico when the reality is
they represent a small percentage of the cartel's guns.


Conditions in the US will also get worse - "security" budgets will
continue to spiral out of control as the US wages it's "War on Terror"
(tm) against it's own citizens. The "War on Terror" is a lot like
fighting cancer with chemo-therapy: It doesn't seem to matter how many
good people you harm (financially, psycologically, morally) in order to
detect, apprehend or (rarely) kill a handful of bad people. The end
result will be to create a culture of control. What you see now is just
the beginning.

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans consume
yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow your gov't to
destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and liberty your country was
founded on. We watch your local TV news, your national 6:30 pm network
news (which reported last night that your restaurants and grocery stores
are now on the lookout for food poisoning performed by home-grown
terrorists). If I believed in a god, I would be thanking him that I'm a
Canadian living in Canada.

Again, the media you are watching presents a very distorted picture. The
majority of people in the US are not in any way worrying about
terrorism, they are going about their lives perfectly normally. I
certainly have not been concerned with terrorism personally at all and
it has no impact on my daily life. I am normally "aware" of my
surroundings, but that is common sense, not anything related to
terrorism. I wasn't even concerned about terrorism when I spend a couple
weeks in Egypt back in 2008, though I was amused by the government
(Egypt) provided security escort with the MP5.

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...

Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed by
US-made guns flooding south across their border.

Actually two thirds of the weapons seized by Mexican police at crime scenes
do not originate in the U.S. However the American appetite for illegal
drugs is very much driving the corrosive drug war underway in Mexico. It's
almost as if decriminalizing those drugs would be worth looking into for a
variety of reasons. The single most destructive drug in the world is
alcohol, and yet you can walk into a convenience store and stroll out with
all the booze you can carry--maybe that's why Mexican drug cartels are not
smuggling booze into America by the truckload and shooting anyone who gets
in their way.

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans consume
yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow your gov't to
destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and liberty your country was
founded on.

The worst part is both parties claim they're for liberty and the common man,
yet somehow a change of government doesn't result in stupid laws being done
away with, imagine that.

"Tegger" wrote in message ...


The US housing bubble was created by the shiploads of artificial credit
conjured up by the Fed. Canada also creates artificial credit, but not to
the same extent, and without accompanying legislative idiocies like the
Community Reinvestment Act.


They also didn't take the cop off the beat and allow investment firms to
conjure up bizarre securities that were rated triple-A by rating agencies
that had no idea of the real value of the instruments. Gee, regulation that
works and makes the Canadian banking system the most stable in the world,
imagine that.

http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2009...da_nivola.aspx

"The Canadian banking system has long been regarded by the IMF as a paragon
of international best practices. The World Economic Forum recently ranked it
the soundest in the world. And it looks better with every passing day. As
during the Great Depression, when only a few inconsequential banks failed in
Canada, the overall system has remained solvent and solid amid the current
global crisis. Indeed, unlike several large U.S. banks these days, the
sustained profitability of Canada’s is startling....

All of Canada’s banks are federally chartered and overseen by federal
agencies. One government-owned entity—the Canada Mortgage and Housing
Corporation (CMHC)—plays a dominant role in shaping mortgage
default-insurance policy. It and five other government bureaus in Ottawa—the
Department of Finance, the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Bank of
Canada, the Financial Consumer Agency, and importantly, the Office of the
Superintendent of Financial Institution—set standards, coordinate the
overall regulatory structure, and enforce it with sanctions. The
Superintendent, for instance, has the power to remove miscreant bank
directors and senior officers."

DGDevin wrote:

Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed
by US-made guns flooding south across their border.

However the American appetite for illegal drugs is very much
driving the corrosive drug war underway in Mexico.

----------------
Napolitano Says Drug Violence Not Rampant Along Border
Gather.com - Gig Veres - 2 days ago

Napolitano confirms gang killed border agent in battle
USA Today - Daniel Gonzalez - Dan Nowicki - 3 days ago
----------------

I hope I'm not the only one to see the irony of the above 2 google
search results showing up on the same page.

Actually two thirds of the weapons seized by Mexican police at
crime scenes do not originate in the U.S.

----------------
Since President Felipe Calderon took office in 2006, more than 30,000
people have died in drug-related violence in Mexico, the government
says. In the same time, Mexico's police and army have seized 93,000 guns
from alleged drug traffickers.

In partnership with the Mexican authorities, ATF number-crunchers have
sought to trace these weapons, matching recovered guns to their initial
point of sale.

A 2009 report to Congress by the US Government Accountability Office
reports that more than 90% of the "firearms seized in Mexico and traced
over the past 3 years have come from the United States". Of these,
approximately 40% originated in Texas.

US gun lobbyists point out that only a quarter of seized weapons are
submitted by the Mexican authorities to the ATF for tracing.

So there is no way of knowing precisely what proportion of the cartels'
guns are American, just as there is no clue to the overall number of US
guns still in use by the cartels.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12014794
----------------

For one thing, I don't know where or how the US gun lobby gets the data
that only 1/4 of seized weapons are submitted to the ATF for tracing.
It could be that any guns that are seized but not submitted for tracing
have had their serial numbers removed.

And besides - are there any gun manufacturers in Mexico?

If there is a ready retail supply of guns in Mexico (presumably - guns
still made in the USA) then why are mexican gangs going to the trouble
of obtaining guns in the US via purchases made by straw-customers?

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans
consume yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow
your gov't to destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and
liberty your country was founded on.

The worst part is both parties claim they're for liberty and
the common man, ...

No, the worst part is that it's so much more of a hassle for Canadians
to cross into the US and do some week-end shopping.

We could single-handedly bring some of your border cities out of
bankruptcy by going on shopping binges if it wasn't for the perception
that we're treated like terrorists by your customs agents who don't
believe us when we say we're coming over to shop or gamble at your
casinos and fill our car's gas tanks on the way back. But noo, it's
more important to present a severe and threatening presense at your
northern border and do everything you can to discourage trade and
commerce. Most americans have no idea that's happening.

"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...


Mexico will continue to deteriorate due to it's epidemic level
corruption.

Which is driven by the huge profits made by drug cartels feeding the
American desire to get high. Weren't we supposed to have learned this
lesson as a result of trying Prohibition? Make a intoxicant illegal and you
guarantee a prosperous criminal underground to supply the demand. How many
times do we need to learn this painful lesson?

US made guns have nothing to do with it, the cartels causing
trouble there have plenty of other sources of guns, and indeed the media
tries to play up US guns being smuggled into Mexico when the reality is
they represent a small percentage of the cartel's guns.

They represent just under a third of the weapons seized by the authorities
in Mexico. As you say, there are other sources, although that doesn't argue
against trying to reduce the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexican drug
gangs. 86% of all the gun stores in America have never had a gun used in a
crime traced back to them. Yet perhaps 400 gun dealers sold more than 60%.
of the crime guns traced by the cops--isn't it reasonable to wonder if
they're involved in the flow of guns to Mexico? Is there some good reason
why dealers consistently selling guns that end up being owned by criminals
shouldn't be the object of some close attention? I recently read an article
about a gun shop in Maryland that sells three times as many crime guns as
other shops in the area, is it maybe just possible that they aren't being as
careful as they should when it comes to preventing straw-buyer sales?
Shouldn't any gun dealer be required to have an extremely accurate
inventory, and be sanctioned when guns go missing without explanation?
Shouldn't there be more than a slap on the wrist for dealers who
persistently botch paperwork relating to gun sales?

I'm a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but that doesn't mean I need to be a
damn fool when it comes to sloppy or criminal gun dealers.

DGDevin wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...

Mexico will continue to deteriorate due to it's epidemic level
corruption.

Which is driven by the huge profits made by drug cartels feeding the
American desire to get high. Weren't we supposed to have learned this
lesson as a result of trying Prohibition? Make a intoxicant illegal and you
guarantee a prosperous criminal underground to supply the demand. How many
times do we need to learn this painful lesson?

The population as a whole *never* learns much of anything.


US made guns have nothing to do with it, the cartels causing
trouble there have plenty of other sources of guns, and indeed the media
tries to play up US guns being smuggled into Mexico when the reality is
they represent a small percentage of the cartel's guns.

They represent just under a third of the weapons seized by the authorities
in Mexico. As you say, there are other sources, although that doesn't argue
against trying to reduce the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexican drug
gangs.

Yep, and reducing that flow mates nicely with the goal of reducing the
flow of other contraband in the opposite direction. For some reason the
US left wing doesn't seem to want either flow stopped.

86% of all the gun stores in America have never had a gun used in a
crime traced back to them. Yet perhaps 400 gun dealers sold more than 60%.
of the crime guns traced by the cops--isn't it reasonable to wonder if
they're involved in the flow of guns to Mexico? Is there some good reason
why dealers consistently selling guns that end up being owned by criminals
shouldn't be the object of some close attention? I recently read an article
about a gun shop in Maryland that sells three times as many crime guns as
other shops in the area, is it maybe just possible that they aren't being as
careful as they should when it comes to preventing straw-buyer sales?
Shouldn't any gun dealer be required to have an extremely accurate
inventory, and be sanctioned when guns go missing without explanation?
Shouldn't there be more than a slap on the wrist for dealers who
persistently botch paperwork relating to gun sales?

Yep, and the laws for such exist yet somehow aren't being used to stop
those few problem dealers.


I'm a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but that doesn't mean I need to be a
damn fool when it comes to sloppy or criminal gun dealers.

Yep, but it seems the left doesn't want those few problem dealers dealt
with, lest they no longer have any incidents to try to hype in their
anti gun lunacy. It's rather like the religious folks being against sex
ed. lest they no longer have any appreciable quantity of abortions to
use to whip their minions into a psychotic frenzy.

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...


Actually two thirds of the weapons seized by Mexican police at
crime scenes do not originate in the U.S.

A 2009 report to Congress by the US Government Accountability Office
reports that more than 90% of the "firearms seized in Mexico and traced
over the past 3 years have come from the United States". Of these,
approximately 40% originated in Texas.

That is incorrect, although it was widely reported in that fashion in the
U.S. news media. When the Mexican authorities seize a gun *and* attempt to
trace it in the U.S., 90% of the time they are successful, it came from an
American gun shop. The part missing from most versions of this story is the
Mexican authorities make no attempt to trace many of the weapons they seize
because they already know they didn't come from the U.S. A handgun made in
Brazil and lacking the markings required to be imported into the U.S. didn't
come from an American gun shop, neither did a full-auto Chinese AK-47,
neither did a military rifle stamped as being the property of the National
Guard of Nicaragua, and so on. That's why the Mexican cops don't try to
trace a gun that couldn't have been sold in America. Some U.S. media
outlets reported the story accurately, but most went with the easy headline
about 90% of crime guns in Mexico originating in America.

The numbers are hard to nail down, although Factcheck.org roughly agrees
with the 1/3--2/3 ratio I mentioned based on the figures they could find,
but it could be more. It's a lot, it's a problem that should be addressed,
but it's not 90% as widely reported.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/

"Given the lack of hard data from Mexico, we cant calculate a precise
figure for what portion of crime guns have been traced to the U.S. Based on
the best evidence we can find so far, we conclude that the 90 percent claim
made by the president and others in his administration lacks a basis in
solid fact. But we also conclude that the number is at least double what Fox
News has reported, based on its reporters mistaken interpretation of ATF
testimony.

Whether the number is 90 percent, or 36 percent, or something else, theres
no dispute that thousands of guns are being illegalIy transported into
Mexico by way of the United States each year."

"DGDevin" wrote in
m:



"Tegger" wrote in message ...


The US housing bubble was created by the shiploads of artificial
credit conjured up by the Fed. Canada also creates artificial credit,
but not to the same extent, and without accompanying legislative
idiocies like the Community Reinvestment Act.


They also didn't take the cop off the beat and allow investment firms
to conjure up bizarre securities that were rated triple-A by rating
agencies that had no idea of the real value of the instruments.



US law dictated that certain investors be prohibited from determining
their own risk ratings for certain securities, but instead had to use
risk ratings from "independent" sources to determine risk-rating. These
ended up being the three licensed rating agencies.

But the feds would /only/ license /those three/ ratings firms to issue
such "independent" ratings. And when the feds were hell-bent on forcing
real-estate debt on anything that was plausibly human, the ratings firms
were loath to downgrade any of the fed's preferred securities for fear
of losing their licenses, so they held their noses and approved whatever
the feds wanted approved. This has been very abundantly documented.

Congress even recently passed a bill that was supposed to remove the
requirement to use independent risk-ratings, but I think it ended up not
doing what it was supposed to do. Forbes covered it.




Gee,
regulation that works and makes the Canadian banking system the most
stable in the world, imagine that.



Yeah, and for a couple of decades the Canadian health-care system was
the "best in the world".



http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2009...da_nivola.aspx



snip


Nobody has any idea how good the Canadian banking system really is,
since even though the banks have private ownership, they are essentially
an arm of the Canadian government. Canadian banks are about as opaque as
it's possible to get; weakness is aggressively covered-up. You can tell
how weak the banks are by the fact that foreign competition is
effectively prohibited.




--
Tegger

On Dec 21, 7:08*pm, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...

Canadian property bubble, followed by general collapse due to
dependency on exports to the USA.
After that Australia.
Saw it on Russia Today so it must be right. Kieser report.
He's been pretty accurate so far. *?

I believe the next bubble to burst will be gold prices. *Unlike other
commodities, gold has little or no industrial value - about the only use is
jewelry. Therefore, gold is not a consumable commodity such as food (corn,
beans, beef, etc.), aluminum, silver, oil, etc. * Therefore, the amount of
gold in the world is relative constant - a small amount is being mined, but
very little. *Since the supply is constant, and there is little industrial
or practical use for gold, the only thing that keeps it going up is emotion,
fear, and greed.

People are afraid of inflation, so they buy gold (it won't help), but in
actuality, inflation is not our (US) problem - It is DEFLATION. *Yes, in
spite of the fact that you see food and gasoline go up, we are in a
deflationary period due to first, home prices dropping (they will drop
another 12 to 15 percent), and more recently, commercial real estate bubble
breaking. *We will probably be in a deflationary position for perhaps the
next eight to ten years. *Long before then, the gold bubble will break.

My name is Bob-tx, and I approve of this message.

Stagflation is what it's called in Europe. Stagnant economy yet
prices of indispensibles continue to rise.

On Dec 21, 7:28*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/21/2010 7:46 AM harry spake thus:

I am from the UK. I love to tease the Yanks.

We get it. We get it. We get it.

They can't grasp what is wrong with their cult.

'K, true 'nuff.

But good post. Interesting. *I think the PIGS (Portugal, Italy,
Ireland, Greece and Spain are well down the tube. *They will end up
cut away from the Euro.

So tell us, Harry, why do you think you Yurpeens are all that much
better than us Merkins?

OK, granted, you (UK) have a *huge* advantage with your National Health
Service, something that'll probably never happen here. Along with some
other *vestigial* remains of, let's call it what it is, socialism.

But clearly the *entire world* is now going the way of the U.S., which
is to say in a totally neoliberal, market-driven, profits-uber-alles
direction, where if things go bad because of speculation and bubble
markets, the gov't imposes austerity measures (witness: Ireland), the
general public be damned.

After all, Harry, you've got those mobs of students in London smashing
things up, right? I can certainly understand why they're out there.

So no, it's not just the Big Bad U.S. that's to blame. Though arguably
we were the *origin* of the problem, what with the "American Century"
and all, it's now metastasized to the entire world. Including China, I'd
say.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

The problem in America is simple greed and aquisitiveness. Also, the
instant gratification syndrome. We have it here too but not near as
bad.
Also the turkeys vote for Christmas. ie the blue collar workers vote
for republicans, amazing to Europeans.
They all believe that one day, some time they might get to be rich.
The truth is that to be rich needs a very special mentality. They
need to want not just enough money, they want it ALL. They don't care
about anyone else. We call it "pulling the bridge up after you."

Yearning after this chimera, the poor get themselves into debt for all
the material things, houses, cars etc. Their brains are conditioned
by TV and Hollywood, a deliberate ploy by the wealthy. We have now
got to the stage where not only have the rich taken all the poor's
Money they have taken all the taxpayer's money, plus money that
doesn't exist but the poor are going to have to pay back anyway.
The rich have found a way to steal the future.

All done by Bush and Republicans. You should have let all the banks
go bust and then the gov. taken them over for nothing. As it is the
rich have never had it so good and the poor never so bad. At least not
recently.

I suspect that we ain't seen nuthin' yet. 2011 will be the crunch
year.
Personally I have never borrowed money for any purpose, so I am better
off than most. We'll see.

On Dec 21, 7:41*pm, Tegger wrote:
Home Guy wrote :





harry wrote:

Canadian property bubble,

House and condo prices have declined during the past 6 months to a
year, or have showed zero growth during that time frame.

The differences betweed US and Canadian residential real-estate
markets a

1) No ARM's, no no-money-down mortgages here in Canada.
2) Anything less than 25% down requires mortgage insurance.
3) Very little speculation done by the average home owner (ie - very
* *few second homes being purchased out of pure speculation)
4) We don't have the equivalent to Nevada, Florida, or other
* *locations where second homes used as vacation homes can be
* *built
5) We can't deduct mortgage payments from income tax, which limits
* *speculative home buying and bubble-forming price increases.
6) Our banks did not re-package mortgages into fancy derivative-
* *based products, and because of that our banks did not and do
* *not cut corners when qualifying potential mortgage borowers.

There are more differences:

7) Canadian homebuyers cannot refinance an existing mortgage at a
* *new, lower rate, without paying a penalty to do so. That penalty
* *is formulated to make it financially unfeasible to break the
* *original contract.

8) Canadian homebuyers cannot escape their legal obligation to
* *fulfill the terms of the contract (i.e.: pay it off) by simply
* *handing in the keys and walking away from the home.

9) Unlike the US, Canada does not use legislative and policy measures
* *to force banks to tease people into real-estate debt.

The US housing bubble was created by the shiploads of artificial credit
conjured up by the Fed. Canada also creates artificial credit, but not to
the same extent, and without accompanying legislative idiocies like the
Community Reinvestment Act.

--
Tegger- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, what happens if you can't pay your mortgage? It sounds to me that
the borrower is worse off than in the UK or Canada?

On Dec 21, 10:43*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:08:57 -0600, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact
wrote:

I believe the next bubble to burst will be gold prices. *Unlike other
commodities, gold has little or no industrial value - about the only use is
jewelry.

I guess you never looked at the pins on the CPU in your computer or
the tabs on the cards. There is a lot of gold used in electronics.

... but I agree we are seeing a gold bubble. The only question is
which one pops first, The credit bubble or the gold bubble.
Harry's people are doing the right thing, trying to get a handle on
their debt. The US is still kicking the can down the road.
Maybe the difference is, if we have riots in the street the rioters
will not be throwing rocks.

Maybe we are, it's hard to say. I think there will be a lot more
riots over here.
The NIMBY syndrome.

On Dec 22, 12:05*am, "Pete C." wrote:
Home Guy wrote:

Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed by
US-made guns flooding south across their border.

Mexico will continue to deteriorate due to it's epidemic level
corruption. US made guns have nothing to do with it, the cartels causing
trouble there have plenty of other sources of guns, and indeed the media
tries to play up US guns being smuggled into Mexico when the reality is
they represent a small percentage of the cartel's guns.







Conditions in the US will also get worse - "security" budgets will
continue to spiral out of control as the US wages it's "War on Terror"
(tm) against it's own citizens. *The "War on Terror" is a lot like
fighting cancer with chemo-therapy: *It doesn't seem to matter how many
good people you harm (financially, psycologically, morally) in order to
detect, apprehend or (rarely) kill a handful of bad people. *The end
result will be to create a culture of control. *What you see now is just
the beginning.

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans consume
yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow your gov't to
destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and liberty your country was
founded on. *We watch your local TV news, your national 6:30 pm network
news (which reported last night that your restaurants and grocery stores
are now on the lookout for food poisoning performed by home-grown
terrorists). *If I believed in a god, I would be thanking him that I'm a
Canadian living in Canada.

Again, the media you are watching presents a very distorted picture. The
majority of people in the US are not in any way worrying about
terrorism, they are going about their lives perfectly normally. I
certainly have not been concerned with terrorism personally at all and
it has no impact on my daily life. I am normally "aware" of my
surroundings, but that is common sense, not anything related to
terrorism. I wasn't even concerned about terrorism when I spend a couple
weeks in Egypt back in 2008, though I was amused by the government
(Egypt) provided security escort with the MP5.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well you should have been worried in Egypt at that time.

On Dec 22, 1:22*am, "DGDevin" wrote:
"Home Guy" *wrote in ...
Mexico will continue to deteriorate, their self-destruction fed by
US-made guns flooding south across their border.

Actually two thirds of the weapons seized by Mexican police at crime scenes
do not originate in the U.S. *However the American appetite for illegal
drugs is very much driving the corrosive drug war underway in Mexico. *It's
almost as if decriminalizing those drugs would be worth looking into for a
variety of reasons. *The single most destructive drug in the world is
alcohol, and yet you can walk into a convenience store and stroll out with
all the booze you can carry--maybe that's why Mexican drug cartels are not
smuggling booze into America by the truckload and shooting anyone who gets
in their way.

It's really sad to sit here in Canada and watch you Americans consume
yourselves over this terrorism pretense as you allow your gov't to
destroy the very ideas of personal freedom and liberty your country was
founded on.

The worst part is both parties claim they're for liberty and the common man,
yet somehow a change of government doesn't result in stupid laws being done
away with, imagine that.

Al Qaeda has got Americans sussed out. The 11/9 attack on the centre
of power and the subsequent incredible financial cost of anti-terror
measures. I believe it may destroy America. Especially now we have not
only the muslim bomb but the muslim missile. They tested another
(Paki) one the other day.

On 12/22/2010 12:44 AM harry spake thus:

On Dec 21, 7:28 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 12/21/2010 7:46 AM harry spake thus:

I am from the UK. I love to tease the Yanks.

We get it. We get it. We get it.

They can't grasp what is wrong with their cult.

'K, true 'nuff.

But good post. Interesting. I think the PIGS (Portugal, Italy,
Ireland, Greece and Spain are well down the tube. They will end up
cut away from the Euro.

So tell us, Harry, why do you think you Yurpeens are all that much
better than us Merkins?

OK, granted, you (UK) have a *huge* advantage with your National Health
Service, something that'll probably never happen here. Along with some
other *vestigial* remains of, let's call it what it is, socialism.

But clearly the *entire world* is now going the way of the U.S., which
is to say in a totally neoliberal, market-driven, profits-uber-alles
direction, where if things go bad because of speculation and bubble
markets, the gov't imposes austerity measures (witness: Ireland), the
general public be damned.

After all, Harry, you've got those mobs of students in London smashing
things up, right? I can certainly understand why they're out there.

So no, it's not just the Big Bad U.S. that's to blame. Though arguably
we were the *origin* of the problem, what with the "American Century"
and all, it's now metastasized to the entire world. Including China, I'd
say.

The problem in America is simple greed and aquisitiveness. Also, the
instant gratification syndrome. We have it here too but not near as
bad.

I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you
"have it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the
U.S.) are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

Also the turkeys vote for Christmas. ie the blue collar workers vote
for republicans, amazing to Europeans.

Ah, so that never happens in Yurp, right? Berlusconi? Sarkozy? Chirac?
(at least it wasn't Le Pen!). And let's not forget that Aussie, Rupert
Murdoch. And how about that thug who just stole the election in Belarus?

They all believe that one day, some time they might get to be rich.
The truth is that to be rich needs a very special mentality. They
need to want not just enough money, they want it ALL. They don't care
about anyone else. We call it "pulling the bridge up after you."

Well, my friend, it's happening all over the world. Like in Russia. Even
India and China are on the beginning cusp of this phenomenon.

Yearning after this chimera, the poor get themselves into debt for all
the material things, houses, cars etc. Their brains are conditioned
by TV and Hollywood, a deliberate ploy by the wealthy. We have now
got to the stage where not only have the rich taken all the poor's
Money they have taken all the taxpayer's money, plus money that
doesn't exist but the poor are going to have to pay back anyway.
The rich have found a way to steal the future.

All done by Bush and Republicans.

That's where you're wrong. Leaving aside the issue that this is not
limited to the U.S., it should be clear to any honest observer that the
ongoing wrong-headed approach to the economy, specifically the
robbing-the-poor-to-further-enrich-the-rich part, is now being carried
out by Democrats headed by Barack Obama. Despite their wailings of "the
Republicans made us do it!", just look at Obama's appointments: all of
them tried and true Wall Streeters to a man.

Bush and his party may have started the current round of squeezing the
toothpaste of wealth towards the top of the tube, but that work is now
being enthusiastically carried out on a bipartisan basis. (And this
despite the absurd claims of some here on this NG and elsewhere about
what a "socialist" and a "Marxist" Obama is. Puleeze; if only.)


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

I suspect that we ain't seen nuthin' yet. 2011 will be the crunch
year.
Personally I have never borrowed money for any purpose, so I am better
off than most. We'll see.

--------------

How do you know you are better off than most? There are smart ways to
borrow money and there are dumb ways to borrow money. Borrowing money for a
luxury car or a new coat or video game system is dumb. Borrowing money for
gambling or big screen tvs or alcohol is dumb.

Borrowing money to purchase solid dividend paying buy-and-hold stocks in a
retirement shelter that refunds a portion of your taxes at year-end is smart
when done correctly.

Borrowing money for expanding or starting a well-thought of small business
plan is smart.

Borrowing money for a good useful education is smart.

There are ways to better yourself, your family and your financial future by
borrowing WISELY.

On 12/22/10 04:06 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

The problem in America is simple greed and aquisitiveness. Also, the
instant gratification syndrome. We have it here too but not near as
bad.

I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you
"have it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the
U.S.) are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

Also the turkeys vote for Christmas. ie the blue collar workers vote
for republicans, amazing to Europeans.

Ah, so that never happens in Yurp, right? Berlusconi? Sarkozy? Chirac?
(at least it wasn't Le Pen!). And let's not forget that Aussie, Rupert
Murdoch. And how about that thug who just stole the election in Belarus?

They all believe that one day, some time they might get to be rich.
The truth is that to be rich needs a very special mentality. They
need to want not just enough money, they want it ALL. They don't care
about anyone else. We call it "pulling the bridge up after you."

Well, my friend, it's happening all over the world. Like in Russia. Even
India and China are on the beginning cusp of this phenomenon.

Yearning after this chimera, the poor get themselves into debt for all
the material things, houses, cars etc. Their brains are conditioned
by TV and Hollywood, a deliberate ploy by the wealthy. We have now
got to the stage where not only have the rich taken all the poor's
Money they have taken all the taxpayer's money, plus money that
doesn't exist but the poor are going to have to pay back anyway.
The rich have found a way to steal the future.

All done by Bush and Republicans.

That's where you're wrong. Leaving aside the issue that this is not
limited to the U.S., it should be clear to any honest observer that the
ongoing wrong-headed approach to the economy, specifically the
robbing-the-poor-to-further-enrich-the-rich part, is now being carried
out by Democrats headed by Barack Obama. Despite their wailings of "the
Republicans made us do it!", just look at Obama's appointments: all of
them tried and true Wall Streeters to a man.

Yes. Despite the Republican denunciations of Obama and the Democrats as
"socialist," they are only slightly less capitalist than the
Republicans. The present-day Democrats are the counterpart of Britain's
"New Labour": barely distinguishable from "Old Conservative." I wonder
how many of the people who stayed home last Election Day were Democrats
who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Democrats who behaved like
Republicans. Some people who had voted Democrat in the previous election
may even have voted Republican this year because at least the
Republicans are honest about being Republicans. Obama campaigned on a
promise of "Change," but I haven't seen much. Even the health-care bill
pours still more money into the health-care industry for somewhat more
accessible health care for many people, but not what should have been
done: a public alternative, with those who do not show evidence of
having private health insurance being enrolled by default in the public
scheme -- in addition, of course, to those who chose the public scheme
in the first place.

Perce

DGDevin wrote:

Actually two thirds of the weapons seized by Mexican police at crime
scenes do not originate in the U.S. However the American appetite
for illegal drugs is very much driving the corrosive drug war
underway in Mexico.

Yep.

It's almost as if decriminalizing those drugs
would be worth looking into for a variety of reasons. The single
most destructive drug in the world is alcohol, and yet you can walk
into a convenience store and stroll out with all the booze you can
carry--maybe that's why Mexican drug cartels are not smuggling booze
into America by the truckload and shooting anyone who gets in their
way.

Fortifying the border - say with land mines or radioactive hot spots - is
essentially a one-time expense. Substantial, but only a one-timer. A small
on-going expense is a "shoot to kill" free-fire zone.

Contrast this with the repetitive expense of dealing with legalized drugs.
When someone overdoses on alcohol, they go to sleep. I'd much rather contend
with a sound-asleep driver than one who suddenly realizes the cab of his
pickup is filled with cloven-hoofed demons, breathing fire and trying to
suck his blood!

Admittedly, some drugs, when ingested in excess, cause the user to go "on
the nod." Others, such as crystal meth or PCP, turn a 4'11', 90-pound female
into a Berserker that takes five hefty cops to subdue.

As to your assertion of "corrosive drug war in Mexico," I'll admit that the
3,000 murders in just one town (Juarez) seem excessive. But there are a
couple of silver linings: 1) In the main, the killings are by drug gangs
killing other drug gang members. I don't see where the bad is in that. 2) An
attraction to the drug trade keeps a goodly number of Mexicans in Mexico
instead of coming to the USA where they could ply their anti-social
activities with abandon.

harry used improper usenet form when he unnecessarily full-quoted:

So, what happens if you can't pay your mortgage? It sounds to me
that the borrower is worse off than in the UK or Canada?

You sell your house. What's what happens.

On Dec 22, 9:06*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/22/2010 12:44 AM harry spake thus:







On Dec 21, 7:28 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 12/21/2010 7:46 AM harry spake thus:

I am from the UK. I love to tease the Yanks.

We get it. We get it. We get it.

They can't grasp what is wrong with their cult.

'K, true 'nuff.

But good post. Interesting. *I think the PIGS (Portugal, Italy,
Ireland, Greece and Spain are well down the tube. *They will end up
cut away from the Euro.

So tell us, Harry, why do you think you Yurpeens are all that much
better than us Merkins?

OK, granted, you (UK) have a *huge* advantage with your National Health
Service, something that'll probably never happen here. Along with some
other *vestigial* remains of, let's call it what it is, socialism.

But clearly the *entire world* is now going the way of the U.S., which
is to say in a totally neoliberal, market-driven, profits-uber-alles
direction, where if things go bad because of speculation and bubble
markets, the gov't imposes austerity measures (witness: Ireland), the
general public be damned.

After all, Harry, you've got those mobs of students in London smashing
things up, right? I can certainly understand why they're out there.

So no, it's not just the Big Bad U.S. that's to blame. Though arguably
we were the *origin* of the problem, what with the "American Century"
and all, it's now metastasized to the entire world. Including China, I'd
say.

The problem in America is simple greed and aquisitiveness. *Also, the
instant gratification syndrome. *We have it here too but not near as
bad.

I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you
"have it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the
U.S.) are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

Also the turkeys vote for Christmas. ie the blue collar workers vote
for republicans, amazing to Europeans.

Ah, so that never happens in Yurp, right? Berlusconi? Sarkozy? Chirac?
(at least it wasn't Le Pen!). And let's not forget that Aussie, Rupert
Murdoch. And how about that thug who just stole the election in Belarus?

They all believe that one day, some time they might get to be rich.
The truth is that to be rich needs a very special mentality. *They
need to want not just enough money, they want it ALL. *They don't care
about anyone else. We call it "pulling the bridge up after you."

Well, my friend, it's happening all over the world. Like in Russia. Even
India and China are on the beginning cusp of this phenomenon.

Yearning after this chimera, the poor get themselves into debt for all
the material things, houses, cars etc. * Their brains are conditioned
by TV and Hollywood, a deliberate ploy by the wealthy. We have now
got *to the stage where not only have the rich taken all the poor's
Money they have taken all the taxpayer's money, plus money that
doesn't exist but the poor are going to have to pay back anyway.
The rich have found a way to steal the future.

All done by Bush and Republicans.

That's where you're wrong. Leaving aside the issue that this is not
limited to the U.S., it should be clear to any honest observer that the
ongoing wrong-headed approach to the economy, specifically the
robbing-the-poor-to-further-enrich-the-rich part, is now being carried
out by Democrats headed by Barack Obama. Despite their wailings of "the
Republicans made us do it!", just look at Obama's appointments: all of
them tried and true Wall Streeters to a man.

Bush and his party may have started the current round of squeezing the
toothpaste of wealth towards the top of the tube, but that work is now
being enthusiastically carried out on a bipartisan basis. (And this
despite the absurd claims of some here on this NG and elsewhere about
what a "socialist" and a "Marxist" Obama is. Puleeze; if only.)

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Obama is not a Marxist or a socialist. The people that claim this
don't know what socialism is.. But your right, he's in the pockets of
the wealthy too. That's exactly why there's no hope. There is no party
for the ordinary American worker.
Time for another revolution. Against your own government.
The first one was only so the rich wouldn't have to pay their taxes.
Nothing's changed since then. Your bill of rights is only for the
wealthy. Exactly as the Magna Carta was only for the wealthy in the
UK. Things are getting worse too not better. They keep you down with
a fear culture.
I wonder how long it will be before they start putting Americans in
Gitmo.

On Dec 22, 12:23*pm, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:
On 12/22/10 04:06 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:





The problem in America is simple greed and aquisitiveness. Also, the
instant gratification syndrome. We have it here too but not near as
bad.

I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you
"have it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the
U.S.) are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

Also the turkeys vote for Christmas. ie the blue collar workers vote
for republicans, amazing to Europeans.

Ah, so that never happens in Yurp, right? Berlusconi? Sarkozy? Chirac?
(at least it wasn't Le Pen!). And let's not forget that Aussie, Rupert
Murdoch. And how about that thug who just stole the election in Belarus?

They all believe that one day, some time they might get to be rich.
The truth is that to be rich needs a very special mentality. They
need to want not just enough money, they want it ALL. They don't care
about anyone else. We call it "pulling the bridge up after you."

Well, my friend, it's happening all over the world. Like in Russia. Even
India and China are on the beginning cusp of this phenomenon.

Yearning after this chimera, the poor get themselves into debt for all
the material things, houses, cars etc. Their brains are conditioned
by TV and Hollywood, a deliberate ploy by the wealthy. We have now
got to the stage where not only have the rich taken all the poor's
Money they have taken all the taxpayer's money, plus money that
doesn't exist but the poor are going to have to pay back anyway.
The rich have found a way to steal the future.

All done by Bush and Republicans.

That's where you're wrong. Leaving aside the issue that this is not
limited to the U.S., it should be clear to any honest observer that the
ongoing wrong-headed approach to the economy, specifically the
robbing-the-poor-to-further-enrich-the-rich part, is now being carried
out by Democrats headed by Barack Obama. Despite their wailings of "the
Republicans made us do it!", just look at Obama's appointments: all of
them tried and true Wall Streeters to a man.

Yes. Despite the Republican denunciations of Obama and the Democrats as
"socialist," they are only slightly less capitalist than the
Republicans. The present-day Democrats are the counterpart of Britain's
"New Labour": barely distinguishable from "Old Conservative." I wonder
how many of the people who stayed home last Election Day were Democrats
who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Democrats who behaved like
Republicans. Some people who had voted Democrat in the previous election
may even have voted Republican this year because at least the
Republicans are honest about being Republicans. Obama campaigned on a
promise of "Change," but I haven't seen much. Even the health-care bill
pours still more money into the health-care industry for somewhat more
accessible health care for many people, but not what should have been
done: a public alternative, with those who do not show evidence of
having private health insurance being enrolled by default in the public
scheme -- in addition, of course, to those who chose the public scheme
in the first place.

Perce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, you're right about politics over here. Hard to see the difference
between them these days. (All scum too.)
I think Obama means well but has/had an insufficient majority/support.
Defeated by the system.
This thing about not want universal health care is baffling to
Europeans.
I suppose the rich just use your insurance system to coin yet more
money out of the poor. There's nothing lower than profiting out of
someone's ill health/misfortune.

On Dec 22, 2:12*pm, Home Guy wrote:
harry used improper usenet form when he unnecessarily full-quoted:

So, what happens if you can't pay your mortgage? It sounds to me
that the borrower is worse off than in the UK or Canada?

You sell your house. *What's what happens.

What happens if your house is worth substantially less than the money
you owe?
In the UK, you have to pay it back. If you hand over the keys, the
bank sells your house, probably for even less than that. You still owe
them the difference. People end up bankrupt. Still, they can't go in
for any more foolish loans.

BTW, our real crunch is yet to come. Maybe yours too.
When inflation hits, they will put up the interest rates and lots of
people won't be able to afford the mortgages they took out. They won't
be able to sell their houses except at give away prices. That's when
the **** hits the fan.
Next year I think or maybe the one after.

harry wrote:

So, what happens if you can't pay your mortgage? It sounds to
me that the borrower is worse off than in the UK or Canada?

You sell your house. What's what happens.

What happens if your house is worth substantially less than the
money you owe?

That hasn't happened in Canada. House prices here have not declined.
At worst, they've remained static over the past 2 or 3 years in most
markets. In other markets, they have still increased.

Have a look at this document:

http://tinyurl.com/2uoxzef

Look at the table of numbers on the last page (page 10).

You'll see how the year/over/year percentage change in house prices have
changed since 2000 for various western countries.

The UK has had some major Yo/Y figures (8 to 15%) during 2000 to 2004,
followed by a crash of -4 to -10% during the years 2008 to the present.
Far larger increase and decrease than even the US has seen, but the US
has been in negative territory since 2006.

Japan has been in negative territory for this entire decade.

Ireland is seeing MAJOR negative Yo/Y numbers in 2008, 2009 and 2010
(-10 and -20%).

Spain has been negative since 2008. Australia has been posting erratic
numbers this decade, almost all positive, but very high numbers lately
(10+ percent this year).

France has been posting negative numbers since 2008, and Germany for
this entire decade (what's going on there?).

harry wrote in news:da79305b-4d70-45fc-a7f8-
:

On Dec 22, 2:12*pm, Home Guy wrote:
harry used improper usenet form when he unnecessarily full-quoted:

So, what happens if you can't pay your mortgage? It sounds to me
that the borrower is worse off than in the UK or Canada?

You sell your house. *What's what happens.

What happens if your house is worth substantially less than the money
you owe?


In most of the US, you walk away from it and incur no penalty other than
forfeiting what little equity you might have. That's a consequence of law.


In the UK, you have to pay it back.


In Canada, you are legally obligated to pay the dollar-amount owing,
whether you walk away or not.


If you hand over the keys, the
bank sells your house, probably for even less than that. You still owe
them the difference.



Not in the US. In the US, government entities Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and
FHA eat the difference, not the banks or the ostensible homeowner. That too
is a consequence of law. The law was specifically and particularly designed
to insulate banks from risk of borrower default, so that banks would be
more willing to lend to deadbeats.



People end up bankrupt. Still, they can't go in
for any more foolish loans.



Congress and the executive branch feverishly and maniacally continue to
push the public into real-estate debt, as though 2008 never happened.
Unreal.

One day, perhaps centuries hence, history will look upon the modern debt-
fetish the way we now regard Mayan human-sacrifices.



--
Tegger

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...


I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you "have
it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the U.S.)
are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

The UK is screwed up in ways most Americans can scarcely comprehend. Armed
thugs break into a house and threaten the owners, the husband defends his
family and in the process injures the gang's leader--guess who went to jail?
The local cops put posters in shop windows advertising a new police
non-emergency number, it features a puppy sitting in a police hat--Muslims
protest (as they consider dogs "unclean") and the police take down the
posters and apologize. Guy goes away for the weekend, comes back to find
east-European illegal aliens squatting in his house and when he calls the
cops they tell him it's a civil matter and there's nothing they can do,
takes him months to get his house back and it's trashed when he does (case
repeated over and over).

Anyone in the UK who can work up the nerve to point his finger at any other
nation is a master of hypocrisy.

On 12/22/2010 11:40 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:31:27 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

In most of the US, you walk away from it and incur no penalty other than
forfeiting what little equity you might have. That's a consequence of law.

People are starting to find out that is not true. Back in the olden
days when a bank could recover all of what it was owed in the
foreclosure sale they let people walk away but now that the loan are
more than the house is worth they are coming after the owner for the
difference. The only out is bankruptcy.

I believe they're sending 1099 forms to the IRS for the amount not
recovered in the foreclosure. You have no money to pay the mortgage
and you give the house back to the bank, the bank sells the house at
a loss and you get a 1099 for the amount of the loss. The IRS comes
after you for the amount on the 1099 as income. Anyway, you get screwed
unless you take precautions with other paperwork maneuvers.

http://illinoislawnews.net/?p=367

TDD

On Dec 22, 11:42*pm, Home Guy wrote:
harry wrote:
So, what happens if you can't pay your mortgage? It sounds to
me that the borrower is worse off than in the UK or Canada?

You sell your house. *What's what happens.

What happens if your house is worth substantially less than the
money you owe?

That hasn't happened in Canada. *House prices here have not declined.
At worst, they've remained static over the past 2 or 3 years in most
markets. *In other markets, they have still increased.

Have a look at this document:

http://tinyurl.com/2uoxzef

Look at the table of numbers on the last page (page 10).

You'll see how the year/over/year percentage change in house prices have
changed since 2000 for various western countries.

The UK has had some major Yo/Y figures (8 to 15%) during 2000 to 2004,
followed by a crash of -4 to -10% during the years 2008 to the present.
Far larger increase and decrease than even the US has seen, but the US
has been in negative territory since 2006.

Japan has been in negative territory for this entire decade.

Ireland is seeing MAJOR negative Yo/Y numbers in 2008, 2009 and 2010
(-10 and -20%).

Spain has been negative since 2008. *Australia has been posting erratic
numbers this decade, almost all positive, but very high numbers lately
(10+ percent this year).

France has been posting negative numbers since 2008, and Germany for
this entire decade (what's going on there?).

So, why do you think it won't happen in Canada?

On Dec 23, 4:04*am, "DGDevin" wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" *wrote in message

.com...

I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you "have
it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the U.S.)
are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

The UK is screwed up in ways most Americans can scarcely comprehend. *Armed
thugs break into a house and threaten the owners, the husband defends his
family and in the process injures the gang's leader--guess who went to jail?
The local cops put posters in shop windows advertising a new police
non-emergency number, it features a puppy sitting in a police hat--Muslims
protest (as they consider dogs "unclean") and the police take down the
posters and apologize. *Guy goes away for the weekend, comes back to find
east-European illegal aliens squatting in his house and when he calls the
cops they tell him it's a civil matter and there's nothing they can do,
takes him months to get his house back and it's trashed when he does (case
repeated over and over).

Anyone in the UK who can work up the nerve to point his finger at any other
nation is a master of hypocrisy.

Crime is so bad in America that everyone needs to sleep with a gun
under his pillow. Kids in the USA find these guns and shoot
themselves or one another.
It's actually paranoia, the American fear culture. The boogy under the
bed syndrome.

On Dec 23, 6:11*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/22/2010 11:40 PM, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:31:27 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

In most of the US, you walk away from it and incur no penalty other than
forfeiting what little equity you might have. That's a consequence of law.

People are starting to find out that is not true. Back in the olden
days when a bank could recover all of what it was owed in the
foreclosure sale they let people walk away but now that the loan are
more than the house is worth they are coming after the owner for the
difference. The only out is bankruptcy.

I believe they're sending 1099 forms to the IRS for the amount not
recovered in the foreclosure. You have no money to pay the mortgage
and you give the house back to the bank, the bank sells the house at
a loss and you get a 1099 for the amount of the loss. The IRS comes
after you for the amount on the 1099 as income. Anyway, you get screwed
unless you take precautions with other paperwork maneuvers.

http://illinoislawnews.net/?p=367

TDD

Well the gov. needs tax money to give to the banks. :-)

On Dec 23, 4:04*am, "DGDevin" wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" *wrote in message

.com...

I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you "have
it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the U.S.)
are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

The UK is screwed up in ways most Americans can scarcely comprehend. *Armed
thugs break into a house and threaten the owners, the husband defends his
family and in the process injures the gang's leader--guess who went to jail?
The local cops put posters in shop windows advertising a new police
non-emergency number, it features a puppy sitting in a police hat--Muslims
protest (as they consider dogs "unclean") and the police take down the
posters and apologize. *Guy goes away for the weekend, comes back to find
east-European illegal aliens squatting in his house and when he calls the
cops they tell him it's a civil matter and there's nothing they can do,
takes him months to get his house back and it's trashed when he does (case
repeated over and over).

Anyone in the UK who can work up the nerve to point his finger at any other
nation is a master of hypocrisy.


You can blame B-liar for this stuff. Most of it is an exaggeration
but not all.

On 12/23/2010 1:10 AM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Wed 22 Dec 2010 11:11:25p, The Daring Dufas told us...

On 12/22/2010 11:40 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:31:27 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

In most of the US, you walk away from it and incur no penalty
other than forfeiting what little equity you might have. That's
a consequence of law.

People are starting to find out that is not true. Back in the
olden days when a bank could recover all of what it was owed in
the foreclosure sale they let people walk away but now that the
loan are more than the house is worth they are coming after the
owner for the difference. The only out is bankruptcy.

I believe they're sending 1099 forms to the IRS for the amount not
recovered in the foreclosure. You have no money to pay the
mortgage and you give the house back to the bank, the bank sells
the house at a loss and you get a 1099 for the amount of the loss.
The IRS comes after you for the amount on the 1099 as income.
Anyway, you get screwed unless you take precautions with other
paperwork maneuvers.

http://illinoislawnews.net/?p=367

TDD


But that should not be the case if the house was included in a
bankruptcy?


I haven't researched it fully but I think there is some legal
maneuvering to protect you from the IRS since you lost your
home rather than some investment property. "Boys, we won't get
any blood out of this turnip. Let's get after the next one."

TDD

"DGDevin" wrote in message
news


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...


I see you basically skirted my questions. Tell us more about how you
"have it here too"; that's what I was getting at. It's not as if we (the
U.S.) are the source of *all* that's wrong in the world.

Snip

Remember about 18 months or two years ago, there were 2 or 3 posters here
bragging about all the $$$$ they were making or going to make flipping
houses?

Wonder where they are now.

Bob-tx

harry wrote in news:5f4c136a-2fff-451f-833a-
:



So, why do you think it won't happen in Canada?




Because Canada never goosed the market with the same stupid incentives the
US did. If there is a correction, it will likely be quite small. You must
also remember that Canada has very few large urban areas, so there are not
many places you can move where there are a significant number of jobs. It's
not like the US, where you can just move a few hours away and have much
lower taxes but the same employment opportunities.

Even the US meltdown was concentrated primarily in areas where it was
possible for underwater homebuyers to walk away without penalty, like
California and Arizona.

--
Tegger