A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.


Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)


Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.


Ideas?


THANKS!


David

David Combs wrote:
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.


Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)


Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.


Ideas?


THANKS!


David


Assuming your temperatures are accurate and my memory is good,
you're sitting right at the maximum expansion temperature for water.
Heating it should make it smaller. That's good. OTOH, if it's gonna
break, it may already have done so.
I've never had a frozen pipe, so you might want a second opinion.
Having said that, I'd pour hot water on it. Start at the end
and work your way slowly back up the pipe. Don't go twisting on the
faucet handle any more than you would if it weren't frozen.
That's likely to break something. If you can get any water
flowing at all, it should open itself up. then you can drain it.
Bad news is that if it's cracked, unfreezing it will make for a
flood at 1AM.

On 12/9/2010 2:11 AM, David Combs wrote:
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.

What means frozen? Is it ice, or does it not move? Did it work in warmer
conditions?

If this is ice frozen than warm it up and leave it drip. Even if it ices
over again and water stops, leave the valve open so the ice can expand.

24 is not that bad for a cold water line. Such water needs to super
freeze as it has no nuclei to crystallize around. Problems with broken
pipes typically start closer to 20F.

Jeff



Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)


Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.


Ideas?


THANKS!


David

"David Combs" wrote in message
...
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.


Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)


Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.


Ideas?


THANKS!


David



Lubricants won't help. You need heat. Now that it is frozen, you can wait
untilt he sun comes out and put a hair dryer on it. If cracked, it won't
matter if you fix it now or next spring.

On Dec 9, 2:11*am, (David Combs) wrote:
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. *Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. *Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. *Still nothing.

Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? *Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)

Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.

Ideas?

THANKS!

David

You might want to work on this project during normal business hours.

I doubt anything is cracked, but *if* it is, thawing it out could
cause problems that you don't want at 1AM.

My son once left a frozen spigot open. It opened but no water came
out, he got confused, wasn't sure if it was opened or closed and left
it. (He was like 10 at the time). When the weather warmed up a bit,
the water started rushing out and began to flood our basement. Luckily
my wife came home soon afterwards and turned it off.

I understand that yours won't even turn, but the point is that it
might be cracked yet frozen and might start flowing when it thaws.
Slim chance, but possible. Better to be prepared.

As far as heating it, I'd wave this at it, plugged into a GFCI, of
course.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1500-wa...112-96289.html

If you are going to use electricity, I don't see the point in the
whole electric blanket-towel thing. Just blast it.

On Dec 9, 2:11*am, (David Combs) wrote:
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. *Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. *Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. *Still nothing.

Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? *Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)

Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.

Ideas?

THANKS!

David

Hair dryer. Be prepared to run off the water somewhere ahead of it if
it has broken the pipe. Do it have a shutoff valve inside the house?

On Dec 9, 1:11*am, (David Combs) wrote:
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. *Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. *Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. *Still nothing.

Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? *Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)

Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.

Ideas?

THANKS!

David

You need heat to that it, an electric blanket of a few hundred watts
will take many hours to work, maybe all night and thats if you can
insulate it to keep in the heat. a propane torch is fastest, maybe
20$, a hair dryer could do it but pouring on hot water wont.

David Combs wrote:

A little help, please.

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

I see that all the man-pussies around here haven't suggested the obvious
real solution:

If you're a real man, you'll have a small plumbing kit that will contain
a propane torch. That's what you use to heat the outside valve and
liquify the frozen water to the point where you can turn the valve and
let the water drain out. Will only take a few minutes of torch heat.

If you're a man-pussy, you'll have to resort to using a hair dryer.
Take a bucket (say, an empty rectangular cat litter bucket) and turn the
hair dryer on full and throw it in the bucket and place the bucket
against the outside of your house over the outside faucet. Prop the
bucket up so it stays put against the wall. In 10 to 15 minutes come
back and open the valve (it should be warm enough by then).

I assume you've close the interior shut-off valve first.

David Combs wrote:

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

Since you have already been given good advice, I won't repeat what has been
said.

What I will suggest is that you make sure you can access and turn of the
water main valve before you go thawing out your pipe(s). If you have a
busted pipe, it will be a lot easier to have already determined the status
of the main valve, and know that you can shut off the incoming water.

Jon

On Dec 9, 11:03*am, Home Guy wrote:
David Combs wrote:
A little help, please.

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. *Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

I see that all the man-pussies around here haven't suggested the obvious
real solution:

If you're a real man, you'll have a small plumbing kit that will contain
a propane torch. *That's what you use to heat the outside valve and
liquify the frozen water to the point where you can turn the valve and
let the water drain out. *Will only take a few minutes of torch heat.

If you're a man-pussy, you'll have to resort to using a hair dryer.
Take a bucket (say, an empty rectangular cat litter bucket) and turn the
hair dryer on full and throw it in the bucket and place the bucket
against the outside of your house over the outside faucet. *Prop the
bucket up so it stays put against the wall. *In 10 to 15 minutes come
back and open the valve (it should be warm enough by then).

I assume you've close the interior shut-off valve first.

"I see that all the man-pussies around here haven't suggested the
obvious real solution:
If you're a real man, you'll have a small plumbing kit that will
contain a propane torch."

And I see that you don't know how to (or don't care to) read the rest
of the thread before tossing out insults.

In other words, the propane torch has already been suggested.

DerbyDad03 unnecessarily full-quoted:

In other words, the propane torch has already been suggested.

I read through all the replies before posting. I didn't see any mention
of a propane plumbing torch.

On Dec 9, 8:17*am, Home Guy wrote:
DerbyDad03 unnecessarily full-quoted:

In other words, the propane torch has already been suggested.

I read through all the replies before posting. *I didn't see any mention
of a propane plumbing torch.


Dec 9, 5:01 am
You need heat to that it, an electric blanket of a few hundred watts
will take many hours to work, maybe all night and thats if you can
insulate it to keep in the heat. a propane torch is fastest, maybe
20$, a hair dryer could do it but pouring on hot water wont.

ransley

Sometimes the content is hard to see, we all miss stuff.

cheers
Bob

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"David Combs" wrote in message
...
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.


Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)


Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.


Ideas?


THANKS!


David



Lubricants won't help. You need heat. Now that it is frozen, you can
wait untilt he sun comes out and put a hair dryer on it. If cracked,
it won't matter if you fix it now or next spring.

Unless it bothers you to let it leak from the first thaw to spring.

ransley wrote:
a hair dryer could do it but pouring on hot water wont.

Why is that?

On Dec 9, 12:06*pm, DD_BobK wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:17*am, Home Guy wrote:

DerbyDad03 unnecessarily full-quoted:

In other words, the propane torch has already been suggested.

I read through all the replies before posting. *I didn't see any mention
of a propane plumbing torch.

Dec 9, 5:01 am
You need heat to that it, an electric blanket of a few hundred watts
will take many hours to work, maybe all night and thats if you can
insulate it to keep in the heat. a propane torch is fastest, maybe
20$, a hair dryer could do it but pouring on hot water wont.

ransley *

Sometimes the content is hard to see, we all miss stuff.

cheers
Bob

"Sometimes the content is hard to see, we all miss stuff"

We all do miss stuff, but we all don't call other posters man-pussies
for supposedly not mentioning what we feel is the "obvious real
solution".

The fact that that "obvious real solution" had in fact already been
posted makes the man-pussy reference even worse, since the person
calling people names for not mentioning it was simply wrong.

On Dec 9, 2:11*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
ransley wrote:
a hair dryer could do it but pouring on hot water wont.

Why is that?

You don't get enough heat transfer.

The propane torch is the fast way. But you need to be careful you do
not melt the gaskets inside the valve if you use a torch. A hair
dryer or heat gun will not do that.

On 9 Dec 2010 02:11:28 -0500, (David Combs) wrote:

A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.


Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?


Let's assume you closed the stop inside the house.
So you won't get a flood if the pipe breaks, just have to replace it.
The fastest way is a propane torch. Keep the torch moving all over
the valve body, but stay away from the handle and stem/stem nut.
Every couple minutes test if it will open.
Hot water will work, but you'll make a mess of ice all around under
the valve.
If you go that way, wrap a hand towel around the valve and pour hot
water on the towel, just enough to keep the towel warm.
Water moves heat very well.
This will work more quickly than a blow dryer, but you might not want
to be picky.

--Vic

On 12/9/2010 2:11 AM, David Combs wrote:
A little help, please.

(Yeah, should have done the water 2 weeks ago, at least!)

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

About three hours ago I started squirting Blaster PB50 "all purpose
lubricant" where the stem meets the faucet body. Did that
several times half-hour apart, still "frozen", so then
I switched to wd40, an hour ago. Still nothing.


Question: do I have to warm up the faucet? Would that help?

(Could do it via "medical" heating pad wrapped around it,
that in turn wrapped in what, winter coat, towells, ...?)


Whole idea is to get this done so I can drain the pipe
so I don't crack a pipe.


Ideas?


THANKS!


David


Gonna have a sunny day any time soon? That will likely do it all by
itself. Catch it just as the wall with the faucet slips into shade,
before it refreezes. If you have an old windowpane and some boards or
cardboard, a greenhouse around it will help matters. If the faucet is
always in shade, duct tape a hair-dryer to it, pointing at the valve
body, the part that is actually frozen/full of slush. BP Blaster, et al,
only lubes the knob shaft, which is probably fine.

--
aem sends...

DerbyDad03 wrote:

"Sometimes the content is hard to see, we all miss stuff"

I did read ransley's post, but I guess I didn't see it.

We all do miss stuff, but we all don't call other posters
man-pussies for supposedly not mentioning what we feel is
the "obvious real solution".

*Every* response should have mentioned the use of a simple propane
plumbing torch. That's the problem here.

On 12/9/2010 11:03 AM, Home Guy wrote:
David Combs wrote:

A little help, please.

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

I see that all the man-pussies around here haven't suggested the obvious
real solution:

If you're a real man, you'll have a small plumbing kit that will contain
a propane torch. That's what you use to heat the outside valve and
liquify the frozen water to the point where you can turn the valve and
let the water drain out. Will only take a few minutes of torch heat.

If you're a man-pussy, you'll have to resort to using a hair dryer.
Take a bucket (say, an empty rectangular cat litter bucket) and turn the
hair dryer on full and throw it in the bucket and place the bucket
against the outside of your house over the outside faucet. Prop the
bucket up so it stays put against the wall. In 10 to 15 minutes come
back and open the valve (it should be warm enough by then).

I assume you've close the interior shut-off valve first.

I wish my place had interior shut-off valves. Changing the outdoor
spigots to freeze-proof models is on the plumber punch list, if I ever
get around to calling one in. (My copper-sweating skills suck.)

--
aem sends...

Bob F wrote:

Unless it bothers you to let it leak from the first thaw to spring.

Tell me that's not an assinine response.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:04:20 -0800, mike wrote:


THINK about it!!!! Do you really want their first trial to be a
2000 degree propane torch?


Nowhere near 2000 if waved over the faucet.

A teapot or two of boiling water dribbled over the faucet will
get the valve to turn. And you're unlikely to set the house on fire.
It's SAFE, quick, easy, requires no tools that he may not have and if it
fails, no harm is done.
Once it's open, you'll know when it thaws
enough to flow and you can STOP heating. Depending on how far back
in the wall it's froze, water will fix it. Hot air from a hair dryer
inside if you can get at it. Get out the torch AFTER the safer methods
fail.

I've got no problem with that advice.
Personally I'd just use the torch on mine. Brick walls.
But hot water works.
I thawed a car radiator that was blocked with ice at about 0 degrees F
by dousing it with a couple gallons of hot water.

--Vic

On 12/9/2010 7:28 PM, wrote:
On Dec 9, 7:04 pm, wrote:
Home Guy wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:

The fastest way is a propane torch. Keep the torch moving all
over the valve body, but stay away from the handle and stem/stem
nut. Every couple minutes test if it will open.

It wouldn't take more than 1 full minute with a torch. Probably only 30
seconds.

Water moves heat very well.

Usually only if there's some convective mixing going on.

This will work more quickly than a blow dryer

If you can create a closed cavity around the valve (using the bucket
method I described) the hair dryer will work faster (and cleaner) than a
rag or towel soaked with hot water (which will loose much of it's heat
to the surrounding air very quickly). Again, the key is to have some
sort of convection happening.

With the towel, a temperature gradient will quickly form inside the
towel as the inner part of the towel will cool and impede heat transfer
from the outer part of the towel into the water pipe.

You guys are nutz.

One of the hardest things to teach engineers is to give advice
APPROPRIATE to the situation. There are often many ways to skin the cat.
Give help that's APPROPRIATE in terms the helpee can understand.

In this case, we've got someone who thinks that WD40 is gonna fix the
problem.
THINK about it!!!! Do you really want their first trial to be a
2000 degree propane torch?

A teapot or two of boiling water dribbled over the faucet will
get the valve to turn. And you're unlikely to set the house on fire.
It's SAFE, quick, easy, requires no tools that he may not have and if it
fails, no harm is done.
Once it's open, you'll know when it thaws
enough to flow and you can STOP heating. Depending on how far back
in the wall it's froze, water will fix it. Hot air from a hair dryer
inside if you can get at it. Get out the torch AFTER the safer methods
fail.

He wants to drain the pipe. Depending on the location of the valve, drain
and the slopes involved, it may be prudent to try to drain the pipe
before applying heat. Less water to carry away the heat more heat
to unfreeze the ice. And the freezing won't get any worse if the
thawing fails.

And all this is based on an ASSUMPTION that the faucet valve is outside
and not a foot inside the wall like mine are. That DOES make a difference.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

easiest solution.

turn supply valve to spigot off. and wait till spring.

if theres a warm day open valve at that time but leave supply valve
off.

i have a couple outdoor valves none of which have ever frozen t cause
trouble...... lived here since 1972, in pittsburgh we sometimes get
below zero for weeks at a time.......

the only problem, the day my neighbors car caught on fire my hose and
valve were frozen solid, so i couldnt help, fire spread to their
home...


Again, not everybody HAS inside shutoff valves. Everybody should, of
course, but not every builder bothers to spend the extra ten bucks. It
is on my 'plumber punch list' which I really need to get around to
hiring somebody for one of these days.

--
aem sends...

On 12/9/2010 7:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
(snip)
Dunno what causes it, but in my newsreader (Tbird), threads are often
split, with the OP in the middle of the list. I often miss intermediate
replies.

--
aem sends...

Again, it wasn't really about the missing of the propane torch
suggestion, it was about the fact that Home Guy called anyone who
didn't suggest a propane torch a "man-pussy".

I believe that now includes you - at least according to Home Guy.

My self esteem is simply crushed.

--
aem sends...

On 12/9/2010 8:47 PM, Home Guy wrote:
mike unnecessarily full quoted:

In this case, we've got someone who thinks that WD40 is gonna
fix the problem.

Yes, that was stupid.

THINK about it!!!! Do you really want their first trial to
be a 2000 degree propane torch?

The home-owner or jobber-grade plumbing torch is still the first tool of
choice for thawing outside water valves and copper lines.

A teapot or two of boiling water dribbled over the faucet will
get the valve to turn. And you're unlikely to set the house
on fire.

If it's a brick-sided house, with a water faucet sticking out 6 inches
through a hole in the bricks, you're not going to set the house on fire
- even if the valve has a film of wd-40 on it.

It's SAFE, quick, easy, requires no tools that he may not
have and if it fails, no harm is done.

I'll take the torch first, hairdryer-in-a-bucket second, and boiling
water dribbled into a small towel third.

He wants to drain the pipe. Depending on the location of the
valve, drain and the slopes involved, it may be prudent to try
to drain the pipe before applying heat.

The only way to drain an outside spiggot is by closing the inside valve
and then opening the outside valve. If the outside piping is full of
frozen water, then how the hell are you going to drain it?

And all this is based on an ASSUMPTION that the faucet
valve is outside and not a foot inside the wall like
mine are.

How the hell can you have an outside water valve that's a foot *inside*
the wall? How thick are the walls of your home anyways? How exactly do
you reach a valve that's a foot *inside* your exterior wall? How do you
attach a garden hose?

Freeze-proof spigot. The actual valve body is inside the heated
envelope. Long shaft for the knob, and supposedly self-draining. It is
what I will have a plumber install here, one of these days.

--
aem sends...

Home Guy wrote:
mike unnecessarily full quoted:

In this case, we've got someone who thinks that WD40 is gonna
fix the problem.

Yes, that was stupid.

THINK about it!!!! Do you really want their first trial to
be a 2000 degree propane torch?

The home-owner or jobber-grade plumbing torch is still the first tool of
choice for thawing outside water valves and copper lines.

A teapot or two of boiling water dribbled over the faucet will
get the valve to turn. And you're unlikely to set the house
on fire.

If it's a brick-sided house, with a water faucet sticking out 6 inches
through a hole in the bricks, you're not going to set the house on fire
- even if the valve has a film of wd-40 on it.

It's SAFE, quick, easy, requires no tools that he may not
have and if it fails, no harm is done.

I'll take the torch first, hairdryer-in-a-bucket second, and boiling
water dribbled into a small towel third.

He wants to drain the pipe. Depending on the location of the
valve, drain and the slopes involved, it may be prudent to try
to drain the pipe before applying heat.

The only way to drain an outside spiggot is by closing the inside valve
and then opening the outside valve. If the outside piping is full of
frozen water, then how the hell are you going to drain it?

You might want to reread what I said.
In particular, one of my outside faucets goes thru the wall and straight
down to the shutoff valve and drain. It is quite possible to drain
the pipe without letting air in the outside spigot. Not as easy, but
quite possible.
IF you want proof, open a bottle of yuppie water and turn the bottle
upside down.
I betcha you can't keep the pop from draining out.

And all this is based on an ASSUMPTION that the faucet
valve is outside and not a foot inside the wall like
mine are.

How the hell can you have an outside water valve that's a foot *inside*
the wall? How thick are the walls of your home anyways? How exactly do
you reach a valve that's a foot *inside* your exterior wall? How do you
attach a garden hose?

On Dec 9, 8:47*pm, Home Guy wrote:
mike unnecessarily full quoted:

In this case, we've got someone who thinks that WD40 is gonna
fix the problem.

Yes, that was stupid.

THINK about it!!!! *Do you really want their first trial to
be a 2000 degree propane torch?

The home-owner or jobber-grade plumbing torch is still the first tool of
choice for thawing outside water valves and copper lines.

A teapot or two of boiling water dribbled over the faucet will
get the valve to turn. *And you're unlikely to set the house
on fire.

If it's a brick-sided house, with a water faucet sticking out 6 inches
through a hole in the bricks, you're not going to set the house on fire
- even if the valve has a film of wd-40 on it.

It's SAFE, quick, easy, requires no tools that he may not
have and if it fails, no harm is done.

I'll take the torch first, hairdryer-in-a-bucket second, and boiling
water dribbled into a small towel third.

He wants to drain the pipe. *Depending on the location of the
valve, drain and the slopes involved, it may be prudent to try
to drain the pipe before applying heat.

The only way to drain an outside spiggot is by closing the inside valve
and then opening the outside valve. *If the outside piping is full of
frozen water, then how the hell are you going to drain it?

And all this is based on an ASSUMPTION that the faucet
valve is outside and not a foot inside the wall like
mine are. *

How the hell can you have an outside water valve that's a foot *inside*
the wall? *How thick are the walls of your home anyways? *How exactly do
you reach a valve that's a foot *inside* your exterior wall? *How do you
attach a garden hose?

Your advice is pretty lousy.

They are talking abut valves with a long shaft and the actual valve
seat is some distance down the pipe. The come in lengths from about 4
inches all the way up to a foot.

On an ordinary valve the plastic seals will melt long before the
solder joint melts if you are heating the valve from the outside with
a propane torch. The solder joint is going to be behind the bib and
in the wall.

Noahbuddy wrote:

http://wetheadmedia.com/top-five-way...lumbing-pipes/

Some of the material in that web-article is horse ****:

You can use something called a “piping hot” machine to unfreeze
your pipes.

There is no way that a "piping hot" machine qualifies in the top-5 ways
to thaw an outside faucet. Never even heard of such a crazy-ass gadget
before. Who sells it - Ron Popeel via TV infomercial?

This machine can be rented from a local plumbing supply house
or off course you could also buy it new .

I'm sure every home-owner is going to remember that, next time it's 6 pm
and below freezing outside and they realize they need to winterize their
outdoor faucets.

If you have a heat gun you can use that to heat the
frozen pipes as well.

For those home-owners that do industrial-strength heat-shrinking at
home, naturally they're going to pull out their heat gun and point it at
their frozen faucet. Makes sense to me.

If you have a hand held plumbers torch or even a b tank you
can use the torch

Here we go. This one is #3 on this so-call "top-5" list.

Electric Plumbing heat tape

Yes, because when it's freezing outside, there's nothing better I want
to do than the shlep to the nearest home depot and spend $50 for a
heat-tape kit and then work my freezing fingers off installing it, turn
it on, and then hope that by next week my faucet will be thawed.

Heat tape is for pipes that must carry flowing water in freezing
conditions, not for thawing a pipe full of frozen water that was not
winterized.

You can use a portable space heater

Number 5 on the list.

This list does not seem to be specifically geared to address the problem
of the frozen outside spiggot - which I would think would be the most
common frozen-pipe issue that people would have.

http://wetheadmedia.com/top-five-way...lumbing-pipes/

Some of the material in that web-article is horse ****:

You can use something called a "piping hot" machine to unfreeze
your pipes.

There is no way that a "piping hot" machine qualifies in the top-5
ways
to thaw an outside faucet. Never even heard of such a crazy-ass
gadget
before. Who sells it - Ron Popeel via TV infomercial?

CY: I've not heard of this, either. When my parents were living in a
trailer, the pipe in the ground would freeze. Someone came by with an
electric welder. And, for a feee, would hook onto the pipe. aparently,
the high amp low voltage would thaw the pipe.

This machine can be rented from a local plumbing supply house
or off course you could also buy it new .

I'm sure every home-owner is going to remember that, next time it's 6
pm
and below freezing outside and they realize they need to winterize
their
outdoor faucets.

CY: Yeah, I hear that. Never heard of such a device.

If you have a heat gun you can use that to heat the
frozen pipes as well.

For those home-owners that do industrial-strength heat-shrinking at
home, naturally they're going to pull out their heat gun and point it
at
their frozen faucet. Makes sense to me.

CY: I used a hair dryer, once.

If you have a hand held plumbers torch or even a b tank you
can use the torch

Here we go. This one is #3 on this so-call "top-5" list.

CY: Very risky. Most plumbing is fastened to wood joists.

Electric Plumbing heat tape

Yes, because when it's freezing outside, there's nothing better I want
to do than the shlep to the nearest home depot and spend $50 for a
heat-tape kit and then work my freezing fingers off installing it,
turn
it on, and then hope that by next week my faucet will be thawed.

Heat tape is for pipes that must carry flowing water in freezing
conditions, not for thawing a pipe full of frozen water that was not
winterized.

CY: One friend of mine had a pipe freeze under his trailer. The brass
ball valve inlet. a friend used a heat gun in that case. And then more
heat tape.

You can use a portable space heater

Number 5 on the list.

This list does not seem to be specifically geared to address the
problem
of the frozen outside spiggot - which I would think would be the most
common frozen-pipe issue that people would have.

CY: Has some value if you can heat the area with the pipes. I've also
heard of using a liquid fuel "salamander" heater.

jamesgangnc wrote:

Your advice is pretty lousy.

My advice to use a plumbing torch to thaw an outside faucet is lousy?
What's your advice then smart-ass?

They are talking abut valves with a long shaft and the actual
valve seat is some distance down the pipe.

I don't know when new homes started to be built with those, but
obviously the OP doesn't have one of those types of valves (or if he
does, he doesn't know it).

It slipped my mind that they exist - anyone saying that their water
valve is 1-foot inside their wall was technically correct, but it would
have been more useful to say that they have a deep-reach or long-shaft
exterior faucet.

On an ordinary valve the plastic seals will melt long before
the solder joint melts if you are heating the valve from
the outside with a propane torch.

I've installed (soldered) traditional gate and ball-type water valves
around my home without taking them apart first, and they operate fine
after installation. They either have high-temperature rubber or
teflon. My exterior back-yard house faucet is a manifold of 3
lever-operated ball valves (they are quieter than gate valves) and none
of their internal gaskets melted as a result of heat during soldering.

I thought real men used Mapp or actylene? Real men have BIG plumbing
kits including the 36 and 48 inch pipe wrenches.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Home Guy"
wrote in message ...

If you're a real man, you'll have a small plumbing kit that will
contain
a propane torch. That's what you use to heat the outside valve and
liquify the frozen water to the point where you can turn the valve and
let the water drain out. Will only take a few minutes of torch heat.

If you're a man-pussy, you'll have to resort to using a hair dryer.
Take a bucket (say, an empty rectangular cat litter bucket) and turn
the
hair dryer on full and throw it in the bucket and place the bucket
against the outside of your house over the outside faucet. Prop the
bucket up so it stays put against the wall. In 10 to 15 minutes come
back and open the valve (it should be warm enough by then).

I assume you've close the interior shut-off valve first.

aemeijers used bad usenet style when improperly full-quoting:

Again, not everybody HAS inside shutoff valves.

Tell me where in the US / Canada, in climate zones that regularly
experience sub-zero weather, do they build homes that don't include
interior shut-off valves for exterior faucets (or where they don't
install long-reach exterior valves) ?

On Dec 10, 9:16*am, Home Guy wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote:
Your advice is pretty lousy.

My advice to use a plumbing torch to thaw an outside faucet is lousy?
What's your advice then smart-ass?

They are talking abut valves with a long shaft and the actual
valve seat is some distance down the pipe.

I don't know when new homes started to be built with those, but
obviously the OP doesn't have one of those types of valves (or if he
does, he doesn't know it). *

It slipped my mind that they exist - anyone saying that their water
valve is 1-foot inside their wall was technically correct, but it would
have been more useful to say that they have a deep-reach or long-shaft
exterior faucet.

On an ordinary valve the plastic seals will melt long before
the solder joint melts if you are heating the valve from
the outside with a propane torch.

I've installed (soldered) traditional gate and ball-type water valves
around my home without taking them apart first, and they operate fine
after installation. *They either have high-temperature rubber or
teflon. *My exterior back-yard house faucet is a manifold of 3
lever-operated ball valves (they are quieter than gate valves) and none
of their internal gaskets melted as a result of heat during soldering.

He's not going to be heating it where the pipe solders into the valve
behind the bib. If there is water in it he will never be able to
unsolder it. He's going to be heating it from the outside and the
other poster is corrrect, he should not put the torch flame on the
stem or the packing nut. Yes they do have high temp plastic but you
still don't want to put a torch on it. Ideally he would use the torch
in the area at the bottom between the underside of the valve stem and
the bib. The water enters the actual valve from the bottom on most
common outdoor faucets.

A few minutes with a heat gun or a high powered hair dryer pointed at
the bottom will achieve the same thing and is completely safe. Its
not as if we're trying to come up with a high speed assembly line
here, he's already spent a bunch of time trying penetrating oil on
it. Not to mention just about everyone has access to a hair dryer and
not nearly so many people have propane or mapp torchs.

As for manly I'll raise you and say I can unfreeze it in under 5
seconds with my oxy/act and a rosebud but I'm still more likely to use
my heat gun.

I prefer the long stem valves myself but I know that in NC and VA I
have owned multiple houses that did not have them and also did not
have an interior shutoff valve. Buliders are cheap.

aemeijers wrote in
:

On 12/9/2010 11:03 AM, Home Guy wrote:
David Combs wrote:

A little help, please.

Anyway, it's now 24f outside (1am night), can't "open" the
valve in the faucet. Try to twist-open the faucet (ie counter-
clockwise), won't move.

I see that all the man-pussies around here haven't suggested the
obvious real solution:

If you're a real man, you'll have a small plumbing kit that will
contain a propane torch. That's what you use to heat the outside
valve and liquify the frozen water to the point where you can turn
the valve and let the water drain out. Will only take a few minutes
of torch heat.

If you're a man-pussy, you'll have to resort to using a hair dryer.
Take a bucket (say, an empty rectangular cat litter bucket) and turn
the hair dryer on full and throw it in the bucket and place the
bucket against the outside of your house over the outside faucet.
Prop the bucket up so it stays put against the wall. In 10 to 15
minutes come back and open the valve (it should be warm enough by
then).

I assume you've close the interior shut-off valve first.

I wish my place had interior shut-off valves. Changing the outdoor
spigots to freeze-proof models is on the plumber punch list, if I ever
get around to calling one in. (My copper-sweating skills suck.)



.....(My copper-sweating skills suck.)

You've heard it a million times, doing it frequently is what it takes to
tune sweating skills. Like drywall taping and mudding.

I don't fear doing it any more. Guess that's because failures aren't the
norm any more.

Last plumbing project was a complete bathroom redo. It started out by
being asked to fix some floor grout that was falling out.

wtf! ???

....and now the rest of the story as Paul used to say.

Hah! Remove some grout few feet away from toilet. Tile loose. Remove
tile. Wet. Whoops. All tile up. Soaked around toilet (no indication at
all from asement below!). So it turns to new subfloor, new toilet.
"Well, I've always wanted a pedestal sink.". Out comes cabinet. Supply
lines come through floor. Need to be moved to wall. ****. "Let's get rid
of that big ugly mirror since we're getting new sink and toilet...and
tile.". Turns out big ugly mirror on wall with construction adhesive.
All board comes off wall. Makes supply pipe relocation easy. "Can't
leave that old light there.". No fixture box. Plate mounted to studs
type. Bath flows to a mud room...tiled mud room sigh. "We can't have
two different tiles here!" she cries.

Anyway, since sink supplies had to be moved, main water had to be shut
off. 3/4" splits feeding sink and toilet. 1/2" hot to sink. Need to put
shutoffs in basement for this leg so all water is not off during all
this. Ball valve installs.

3/4 ball valve on 3/4 pipe near joist in basement. OK, this needs some
decent even heat that I can manipulate and with all this other sweating
stuff this decades old propane torch ain't gonna work for Mr Wanna-be
plumber.

So I invested like $70 for this mapp torch with a 5' hose, built in
ignighter and shutoff. It sure as hell made a difference in many
aspects...which is my point in all this.

http://www.bernzomatic.com/PRODUCTS/...3/Default.aspx

Like the compressor, 12" miter saw, etc, etc., one of those thing I
should have got a long time ago. It's not spending a number of bucks on
just one project use.

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:


We all do miss stuff, but we all don't call other posters man-pussies
for supposedly not mentioning what we feel is the "obvious real
solution".

The fact that that "obvious real solution" had in fact already been
posted makes the man-pussy reference even worse, since the person
calling people names for not mentioning it was simply wrong.

OTOH, Arnold Schwarzenegger got to be gubernator by calling people
man-pussies ("girlie men", to be exact.)

Red Green wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
:
.....(My copper-sweating skills suck.)

You've heard it a million times, doing it frequently is what it takes
to tune sweating skills. Like drywall taping and mudding.

I don't fear doing it any more. Guess that's because failures aren't
the norm any more.

Last plumbing project was a complete bathroom redo. It started out by
being asked to fix some floor grout that was falling out.

wtf! ???

...and now the rest of the story as Paul used to say.

Hah! Remove some grout few feet away from toilet. Tile loose. Remove
tile. Wet. Whoops. All tile up. Soaked around toilet (no indication at
all from asement below!). So it turns to new subfloor, new toilet.
"Well, I've always wanted a pedestal sink.". Out comes cabinet. Supply
lines come through floor. Need to be moved to wall. ****. "Let's get
rid of that big ugly mirror since we're getting new sink and
toilet...and tile.". Turns out big ugly mirror on wall with
construction adhesive. All board comes off wall. Makes supply pipe
relocation easy. "Can't leave that old light there.". No fixture box.
Plate mounted to studs type. Bath flows to a mud room...tiled mud
room sigh. "We can't have two different tiles here!" she cries.

Anyway, since sink supplies had to be moved, main water had to be shut
off. 3/4" splits feeding sink and toilet. 1/2" hot to sink. Need to
put shutoffs in basement for this leg so all water is not off during
all this. Ball valve installs.

3/4 ball valve on 3/4 pipe near joist in basement. OK, this needs some
decent even heat that I can manipulate and with all this other
sweating stuff this decades old propane torch ain't gonna work for Mr
Wanna-be plumber.

what, you didn't get to redoing the entire kitchen whilst you're at it? this
is called mission creep.

mike wrote in
:


snip


In this case, we've got someone who thinks that WD40 is gonna fix the
problem.
THINK about it!!!! Do you really want their first trial to be a
2000 degree propane torch?


snip

Hmmmm, lemme think about that...

Earlier today, Should-Be-In-A-Home Guy spouted:

snip


For those home-owners that do industrial-strength heat-shrinking at
home, naturally they're going to pull out their heat gun and point
it at
their frozen faucet. *Makes sense to me.


snip

There are lots of other reasons for a home-owner to have a heat-gun
aside from "industrial-strength heat-shrinking". I'd wager that the
majority of home-owners that have a heat gun use it for a variety of
those other reasons. I know I do.

"chaniarts" wrote in
:

Red Green wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
:
.....(My copper-sweating skills suck.)

You've heard it a million times, doing it frequently is what it takes
to tune sweating skills. Like drywall taping and mudding.

I don't fear doing it any more. Guess that's because failures aren't
the norm any more.

Last plumbing project was a complete bathroom redo. It started out by
being asked to fix some floor grout that was falling out.

wtf! ???

...and now the rest of the story as Paul used to say.

Hah! Remove some grout few feet away from toilet. Tile loose. Remove
tile. Wet. Whoops. All tile up. Soaked around toilet (no indication
at all from asement below!). So it turns to new subfloor, new
toilet. "Well, I've always wanted a pedestal sink.". Out comes
cabinet. Supply lines come through floor. Need to be moved to wall.
****. "Let's get rid of that big ugly mirror since we're getting new
sink and toilet...and tile.". Turns out big ugly mirror on wall with
construction adhesive. All board comes off wall. Makes supply pipe
relocation easy. "Can't leave that old light there.". No fixture box.
Plate mounted to studs type. Bath flows to a mud room...tiled mud
room sigh. "We can't have two different tiles here!" she cries.

Anyway, since sink supplies had to be moved, main water had to be
shut off. 3/4" splits feeding sink and toilet. 1/2" hot to sink. Need
to put shutoffs in basement for this leg so all water is not off
during all this. Ball valve installs.

3/4 ball valve on 3/4 pipe near joist in basement. OK, this needs
some decent even heat that I can manipulate and with all this other
sweating stuff this decades old propane torch ain't gonna work for Mr
Wanna-be plumber.

what, you didn't get to redoing the entire kitchen whilst you're at
it? this is called mission creep.




The mud room connects to the entry way. Entry got new 3/4" oak where same
bath tile was in entry. Entry leads to kitchen eat-in. Wants oak to
run/flow in there...lengthwise. Floor in entry 3/8" lower than eat-in
sigh. Build up entry floor 3/8". Eat-in adjacent to kitchen of course.
New tile where old lino was.

Happy now? :-)

Vic Smith wrote in
:

On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:04:20 -0800, mike wrote:


THINK about it!!!! Do you really want their first trial to be a
2000 degree propane torch?


Nowhere near 2000 if waved over the faucet.

A teapot or two of boiling water dribbled over the faucet will
get the valve to turn. And you're unlikely to set the house on fire.
It's SAFE, quick, easy, requires no tools that he may not have and if
it fails, no harm is done.
Once it's open, you'll know when it thaws
enough to flow and you can STOP heating. Depending on how far back
in the wall it's froze, water will fix it. Hot air from a hair dryer
inside if you can get at it. Get out the torch AFTER the safer
methods fail.

I've got no problem with that advice.
Personally I'd just use the torch on mine. Brick walls.
But hot water works.
I thawed a car radiator that was blocked with ice at about 0 degrees F
by dousing it with a couple gallons of hot water.

--Vic


Hot water holds a lot of heat to give up. With volume, it can thaw a
lot. If you have a hose MADE TO HANDLE HOT WATER and are willing to deal
with it, it can be connected to the water heater drain.

Obviously, in your case, would have been overkill.