On 2016-09-14, HerHusband wrote:

Most of my hand tools now are Craftsman's that I've had for 30 years or
more.

If yer Craftsman tools are really 30 yrs old, they are probably better
than what Sears is offering, today. Most Craftsman tools --not all--
are currently made in China. This unlike S-K Tools, which are still
made in the USA.

http://www.skhandtool.com/carousel/made-in-usa.aspx

nb

If yer Craftsman tools are really 30 yrs old, they are probably better
than what Sears is offering, today.

Yep, I bought most of my hand tools in my late teens and early 20's after I
first started driving. I'll turn 53 in a few months.

Most Craftsman tools --not all-- are currently made in China.

I occasionally still buy a Craftsman wrench or screwdriver if I'm missing a
size or something, but that's fairly rare. I haven't noticed any major
difference in quality though, compared to my older hand tools.

This unlike S-K Tools, which are still made in the USA.

I haven't seen S-K tools in my area for a long time. I didn't know they
were still being made.

Actually, I bought a few "Husky" brand hand tools at Home Depot to keep in
the car recently. I'm sure they're made in China (everything is) but they
seemed to be decent quality.

I remember the cheap sockets my step-dad used to buy. The chrome was
peeling off, and they would either strip out inside or just crack in half
when you put any pressure on them. I quickly learned to buy my own tools
and not borrow his.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 10:27:53 AM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:

Actually, I bought a few "Husky" brand hand tools at Home Depot to keep in
the car recently. I'm sure they're made in China (everything is) but they
seemed to be decent quality.

My 1st set of sockets (SAE) and ratchet was "Husky"...got it with S&H green stamps! That was 50 yrs ago when they were made here...I still use them!

On 2016-09-14, HerHusband wrote:

I haven't seen S-K tools in my area for a long time. I didn't know they
were still being made.

They are currently under the Ideal Tools brand and are sold to any
high-end mfrg company that may still be in existence and/or can afford
to pay "tool reps". I recall my company's relation with Ideal Tools.
Hot, cute, tool reps to sell you tools at insanely high prices, less
than ethical shipping practices, after you've ordered.

Actually, I bought a few "Husky" brand hand tools at Home Depot to keep in
the car recently. I'm sure they're made in China (everything is) but they
seemed to be decent quality.

I'm not a China hater. I figure China is to mfrg, now, what USA was,
back in the 50s-60s. They will provide the quality they are paid to
provide. No more, no less. At least Husky has the "Forever
Guarantee".

I remember the cheap sockets my step-dad used to buy. The chrome was
peeling off, and they would either strip out inside or just crack in half
when you put any pressure on them. I quickly learned to buy my own tools
and not borrow his.

Being retired, I don't hafta worry about tool quality as much as when
I was a pro. This is fortunate, as the tools now available are crap,
compared to 30-40 yrs ago. OTOH, I recently bought some Craftsman SAE
combo wrenches. I held out until the "Made in USA" wrenches were on
sale. Yes! Sears offers both domestic and foreign made tools under
the Craftman name. Yer choice. I don't wanna guess "where" in the
the USA these tools were made. Hopefully, not on Guam.

BTW, my chrome S-K sockets never lost their chrome plating, even when
I used 'em on air impact tools. Too bad they were stolen.

nb

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 11:15:44 AM UTC-5, notbob wrote:

BTW, my chrome S-K sockets never lost their chrome plating, even when
I used 'em on air impact tools. Too bad they were stolen.

nb

I have a set of S-K long box wrenches (at least 60 yrs old, from a neighbor lady)...they still look like stainless steel!

On 14 Sep 2016 14:39:35 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-09-14, HerHusband wrote:

Most of my hand tools now are Craftsman's that I've had for 30 years or
more.

If yer Craftsman tools are really 30 yrs old, they are probably better
than what Sears is offering, today. Most Craftsman tools --not all--
are currently made in China. This unlike S-K Tools, which are still
made in the USA.

http://www.skhandtool.com/carousel/made-in-usa.aspx

nb

If you know anyone who has recently had a baby, look closely between
their butt cheeks for a "Made in China" label. 93.7% of all babies made
since 2005 are now made in China.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 21:09:16 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 09/13/2016 01:19 PM, Meanie wrote:
WHAT? The all American made motorcycle? I'm shocked!

Except for the forks, carb, battery, probably the tires, the horn, and a
few other minor pieces... Most of the bling in the boutique is from China.

All of the chrome on the bike proper is plated here in Kitchener
Ontario by Kuntz Electroplating.

The japanese parts would be things like the starter and some other
electrical parts.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 04:58:14 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

My first metric socket set was an S-K set (45+ yrs ago).
I don't recall any missing sizes.

That's funny, my first metric socket set was S-K brand too. They were the
first tools I bought when I started driving. I think I may still have one
or two of those sockets left. They were fairly good quality compared to the
cheap bargain store sockets my step-dad always bought.

Most of my hand tools now are Craftsman's that I've had for 30 years or
more.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
Back in the 60s and 70s SK was as good a tool as anything on the
market.. I've had most of my Craftsman tools since 1969 - along with
most of my SK and Herbrand.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 05:07:40 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Harley uses some Japanese (or other Pacific Rim) sourced parts that
WILL have 10mm heads on 6mm bolts.
WHAT? The all American made motorcycle? I'm shocked!

It goes both ways... Several months ago I needed to replace a bolt for the
seatbelt in my 1976 Rabbit. It's a German car, so I figured it was a metric
bolt. I tried every available metric thread pitch, but nothing fit right.
On a whim I tried a fine thread imperial bolt and it threaded in perfectly!

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
I've got a surprise for you. A 1976 Rabbit isn'r a german car - it
was built in Westmoreland Pennsylvania

On 14 Sep 2016 16:15:39 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-09-14, HerHusband wrote:

I haven't seen S-K tools in my area for a long time. I didn't know they
were still being made.

They are currently under the Ideal Tools brand and are sold to any
high-end mfrg company that may still be in existence and/or can afford
to pay "tool reps". I recall my company's relation with Ideal Tools.
Hot, cute, tool reps to sell you tools at insanely high prices, less
than ethical shipping practices, after you've ordered.

Actually, I bought a few "Husky" brand hand tools at Home Depot to keep in
the car recently. I'm sure they're made in China (everything is) but they
seemed to be decent quality.

I'm not a China hater. I figure China is to mfrg, now, what USA was,
back in the 50s-60s. They will provide the quality they are paid to
provide. No more, no less. At least Husky has the "Forever
Guarantee".

I remember the cheap sockets my step-dad used to buy. The chrome was
peeling off, and they would either strip out inside or just crack in half
when you put any pressure on them. I quickly learned to buy my own tools
and not borrow his.

Being retired, I don't hafta worry about tool quality as much as when
I was a pro. This is fortunate, as the tools now available are crap,
compared to 30-40 yrs ago. OTOH, I recently bought some Craftsman SAE
combo wrenches. I held out until the "Made in USA" wrenches were on
sale. Yes! Sears offers both domestic and foreign made tools under
the Craftman name. Yer choice. I don't wanna guess "where" in the
the USA these tools were made. Hopefully, not on Guam.

BTW, my chrome S-K sockets never lost their chrome plating, even when
I used 'em on air impact tools. Too bad they were stolen.

nb
There are still decent quality tools available - comparable to the
Craftsman tools of the late 60s - and the surprizing thing is they
don't cost much more than the Craftsman tools did back in the time.

I have well over $20,000 invested in mechanics hand tools - many
purchaced when I was making significantly under $5 an hour.

I could replace virtually all of them for under $8000 today - with
equivalent or better quality and warrantee. (and I earn a lot more
than $5 an hour today!!!) Back then I could by a nice new mustang for
under $3000 0 making that $20000 more like 200000 today!!!

On 2016-09-14, wrote:

The japanese parts.........

What, precisely, constitutes a "japanese" (sic) part?

Did you know that when HD bought themselves back from AMF and
developed the Evolution engine, those engines were manufactured (in
the USA) on 40 million dollars worth of newly purchased (from Japan)
Japanese mfrg equipment? That was 1984.

Somehow, I doubt even less of that particular brand of m/c is
currently mfrd in the USA, today. 8|

nb

On 9/14/2016 10:39 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-09-14, HerHusband wrote:

Most of my hand tools now are Craftsman's that I've had for 30 years or
more.

If yer Craftsman tools are really 30 yrs old, they are probably better
than what Sears is offering, today. Most Craftsman tools --not all--
are currently made in China. This unlike S-K Tools, which are still
made in the USA.

http://www.skhandtool.com/carousel/made-in-usa.aspx

nb


Mine are 50 years old and yes, better than the new stuff.

On 09/14/2016 03:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 05:07:40 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Harley uses some Japanese (or other Pacific Rim) sourced parts that
WILL have 10mm heads on 6mm bolts.
WHAT? The all American made motorcycle? I'm shocked!
It goes both ways... Several months ago I needed to replace a bolt for the
seatbelt in my 1976 Rabbit. It's a German car, so I figured it was a metric
bolt. I tried every available metric thread pitch, but nothing fit right.
On a whim I tried a fine thread imperial bolt and it threaded in perfectly!

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
I've got a surprise for you. A 1976 Rabbit isn'r a german car - it
was built in Westmoreland Pennsylvania

I thought VWs were built by MTD.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 1:43:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 14 Sep 2016 14:39:35 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-09-14, HerHusband wrote:

Most of my hand tools now are Craftsman's that I've had for 30 years or
more.

If yer Craftsman tools are really 30 yrs old, they are probably better
than what Sears is offering, today. Most Craftsman tools --not all--
are currently made in China. This unlike S-K Tools, which are still
made in the USA.

http://www.skhandtool.com/carousel/made-in-usa.aspx

nb

If you know anyone who has recently had a baby, look closely between
their butt cheeks for a "Made in China" label. 93.7% of all babies made
since 2005 are now made in China.

Maybe the Mormon isn't dead? No...even he was funnier!

On 09/14/2016 01:17 PM, wrote:
The japanese parts would be things like the starter and some other
electrical parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keihin_Corporation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showa_Corporation

Some of the cast wheels are by Enkei. They may be made in the
Jacksonville plant. I don't know about current production but they used
to favor Dunlop tires. Who knows where they were made.

On 09/14/2016 01:21 PM, wrote:
I've got a surprise for you. A 1976 Rabbit isn'r a german car - it
was built in Westmoreland Pennsylvania

My '86 F150 isn't a US truck; it was built in Canada...

I've got a surprise for you. A 1976 Rabbit isn't a german car
it was built in Westmoreland Pennsylvania

The Westmoreland plant didn't start building Rabbits until 1978:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...eland_Assembly

My 1976 VW Rabbit was built in Wolfsburg, Germany.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 11:10:40 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
I've got a surprise for you. A 1976 Rabbit isn't a german car
it was built in Westmoreland Pennsylvania

The Westmoreland plant didn't start building Rabbits until 1978:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...eland_Assembly

My 1976 VW Rabbit was built in Wolfsburg, Germany.


My 1967 Beetle was born in Germany, lived in Germany and died in Germany.

I totaled it while stationed at USCG LORSTA Sylt Germany in 1976.

There are 9mm bolts on Nakamura, GT and Diadora bicycles but some sets don't come with these sockets.

I have never used 9 and 20 mm. A rounded/rusted 10/21 might fit. I have all metric sizes from 6mm except 20. If somebody need a 9mm flexible ratchet wrench let me know...

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 14:52:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I have never used 9 and 20 mm. A rounded/rusted 10/21 might fit. I have all metric sizes from 6mm except 20. If somebody need a 9mm flexible ratchet wrench let me know...
There are at least 3 metric "standards - german. japanese. and
American -f you like - and they use different thread sizes and
different heads on those sizes. Foir instance a 6mm bolt can have a 10
or 11mm head. AN 8mm can have 12 or 13mm head. A 10mm can have 14 0r
15mm.' Because of this a metric toolk set in the japanese maeket will
have a different size assortment than a european or british or
American set.
'
I work on just about anything so I like a "full" set.

On 02/16/2019 03:52 PM, wrote:
I have never used 9 and 20 mm. A rounded/rusted 10/21 might fit. I have all metric sizes from 6mm except 20. If somebody need a 9mm flexible ratchet wrench let me know...


Do you have a 3/4 ?

I had this question too in the middle of working on a car. That is when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.

On 11/27/2019 1:54 PM, wrote:
I had this question too in the middle of working on a car. That is when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.

What pattern? 8mm = .315 inches 5/16 = .3125
14mm = .5512 inches 9/16 = .5625

Close, but not equal. Competent tradesmen that work on both have both
sets of tools.

On 11/27/2019 1:14 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/27/2019 1:54 PM, wrote:
I had this question too in the middle of working on a car.Â* That is
when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to
common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both
metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase
the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.

What pattern?Â* 8mm = .315 inchesÂ*Â* 5/16 = .3125
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 14mm = .5512 inchesÂ* 9/16 = .5625

Close, but not equal.Â* Competent tradesmen that work on both have both
sets of tools.


Â*Even backyard hack mechanics like me have full sets of both .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:14:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/27/2019 1:54 PM, wrote:
I had this question too in the middle of working on a car. That is when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.

What pattern? 8mm = .315 inches 5/16 = .3125
14mm = .5512 inches 9/16 = .5625

Close, but not equal. Competent tradesmen that work on both have both
sets of tools.

If you have a worn 9/16 that 14mm will usually get a little better
bite. Same with 1/2 and 12mm but you might be driving that one on.
;-)

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:54:18 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I had this question too in the middle of working on a car. That is when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.
Not true
At all.
The reason certain metric sizes are not included in most common tool
sets is different countries use different metric standards which use
different bolt head sizes.
Japanese cars do not use 11 or 13mm heads - they use 10 and 12 - and
14 for 6, 8, and 10mm bolts.
There are 3 main standards - ANSI/ISO, DIN, and JIS

All 3 use 7mm heads on 4mm and 8mm on 5 mm threads.
All 3 use 10mm heads on 6mm, and DIN only uses 11mm heads on 7mm
bolts.The other 2 standards do noy use any 7mm bolts.
On 8mm bolts JIS uses 12mm heads while DIN and ANSI?ISO use 13mm.
On 10mm bolts JIS uses 14mm, ANSI/ISO uses 16 and DIN uses 17mm.
On 14mm JIS uses 19, ANSI/ISO uses 21 and DIN uses 22
On 16mm JIS uses 22 while ANSI/ISO and DIN use 24
Only DIN uses 18mm with a 27mm head while ANSI/ISO and JIS use 20mm
threads with a 30mm head.
Then there are some manufacturers who go it alone and put a 11 mm
heads on a 6mm bolt.

SO for a german car you will get a set with 7,8,10,11,13,17,22,24 and
27mm.
On a Japanese set you get 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 19, 22, and 30mm
On American metrics you use 7, 8, 10 (or sometimes 11), 13, 16, 21,
24, and 30mm

More or less.

On Friday, November 5, 2010 at 3:32:22 PM UTC-4, Red Green wrote:
Be it Sears, HF, HD, etc.

They often go 6,7,8,10,11,12...

Not always in larger sets. But like who would buy an SAE set of any size if
it ran from say 3/8 to 3/4 without a 9/16?

Also a metric socket set covering the same range as a 13 piece SAE set starting at 7/16 would requier 10 more sockets to be compleat.

In article ,
says...

Not always in larger sets. But like who would buy an SAE set of any size if
it ran from say 3/8 to 3/4 without a 9/16?

Also a metric socket set covering the same range as a 13 piece SAE set starting at 7/16 would requier 10 more sockets to be compleat.



I fail to understand why there are wrenches that are sized so close to
each other, not counting the need to fit bolts that should not be made
either.

The SAE of going up 1/16 of an inch or less in sizes over 3/4 of an inch
seems just as bad.

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 2:39:46 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.

I'm with you. A lot of machines could use one size bolt versus 4 or 5. Some would be stronger than necessary but it would make repair a lot simpler.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:39:35 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Not always in larger sets. But like who would buy an SAE set of any size if
it ran from say 3/8 to 3/4 without a 9/16?

Also a metric socket set covering the same range as a 13 piece SAE set starting at 7/16 would requier 10 more sockets to be compleat.



I fail to understand why there are wrenches that are sized so close to
each other, not counting the need to fit bolts that should not be made
either.

The SAE of going up 1/16 of an inch or less in sizes over 3/4 of an inch
seems just as bad.

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.
7mm, 9mm 11mm and 13mm thread sizes are almost non-existant "in the
wild" and in larger sizes the gaps ARE much larger, in the real world.
The difference in head sizes per bolt size between "systems" makes the
full size range important - not the 1mm incement in thread sizes.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:32:49 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 2:39:46 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.

I'm with you. A lot of machines could use one size bolt versus 4 or 5. Some would be stronger than necessary but it would make repair a lot simpler.
A toyota car uses 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 mm thread sizes with 8, 10, 14
and 14mm heads for almost everything, with the occaisional larger
bolts where required. You would not want to use a 10mm bolt where most
of the 4 and 6 mm bolts are used, I can assure you!!!!!

On 12/3/2019 4:32 PM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 2:39:46 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.

I'm with you. A lot of machines could use one size bolt versus 4 or 5. Some would be stronger than necessary but it would make repair a lot simpler.


True, but it should have been settled 100 years ago. As long as the
bolts exist the wrenches are needed.

In article ,
says...
A toyota car uses 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 mm thread sizes with 8, 10, 14
and 14mm heads for almost everything, with the occaisional larger
bolts where required. You would not want to use a 10mm bolt where most
of the 4 and 6 mm bolts are used, I can assure you!!!!!



In the smaller sizes I can see it, but surely a 19 mm and 20 mm could
just a 20mm and skip over the 19.

What would be wrong with using a 14 mm where the 10 mm is being used
other than a very small cost.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 19:41:12 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
A toyota car uses 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 mm thread sizes with 8, 10, 14
and 14mm heads for almost everything, with the occaisional larger
bolts where required. You would not want to use a 10mm bolt where most
of the 4 and 6 mm bolts are used, I can assure you!!!!!



In the smaller sizes I can see it, but surely a 19 mm and 20 mm could
just a 20mm and skip over the 19.

What would be wrong with using a 14 mm where the 10 mm is being used
other than a very small cost.
Never seen a 19mm bolt. 19mm head? yes - but not a 19mm bolt. Might
exist, but I've never seen one.\
Metric standards are 2.5, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20,
22, 24, 27, 30, 33, and 36mm in metric coarse threads.
Metric fine are8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22 and 24mm
M7 is VERY rare

On Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:57:28 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:32:49 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 2:39:46 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.

I'm with you. A lot of machines could use one size bolt versus 4 or 5. Some would be stronger than necessary but it would make repair a lot simpler.
A toyota car uses 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 mm thread sizes with 8, 10, 14
and 14mm heads for almost everything, with the occaisional larger
bolts where required. You would not want to use a 10mm bolt where most
of the 4 and 6 mm bolts are used, I can assure you!!!!!

The same is pretty much true of Yamaha outboards too. There are some
7MM (head) screws on the electronics and you need a 15MM to drop the
foot. I bet 80% of the bolts have 10MM heads tho. Must be, that is the
socket I lose most often ;-)

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 19:27:39 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/3/2019 4:32 PM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 2:39:46 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does a bolt really have much more strength in size 21 than a size 20 in
metric ? I would think that as wrenches/bolts reach around size 12
metric they would go up in steps of 3 to 4 to gain enough to make them
worth while to make.

I'm with you. A lot of machines could use one size bolt versus 4 or 5. Some would be stronger than necessary but it would make repair a lot simpler.


True, but it should have been settled 100 years ago. As long as the
bolts exist the wrenches are needed.

I had that discussion with IBM. We were carrying about 50 different
Allen, Bristol 4&6 flute and Torx wrenches around to deal with basic
screws. It got worse when they threw metrics at us.
The answer was they buy assemblies from vendors and each vendor's
engineer think they have the perfect fastener and none of them agree
what it should be.

I then asked if we had bid specs. Couldn't we tell them what to use.
The answer was no.

On 28/11/19 6:14 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/27/2019 1:54 PM, wrote:
I had this question too in the middle of working on a car.Â* That is
when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to
common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both
metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase
the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.

What pattern?Â* 8mm = .315 inchesÂ*Â* 5/16 = .3125
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 14mm = .5512 inchesÂ* 9/16 = .5625

Yes, works Ok one way but not so well the other.

Close, but not equal.Â* Competent tradesmen that work on both have both
sets of tools.

Absolutely correct. In fact, I had 3 complete sets of tools since I
needed the British sizes as well for the trucks I used to work on.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 28/11/19 12:39 pm, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:54:18 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I had this question too in the middle of working on a car. That is when I discovered the following:
5mm = 3/16
8mm = 5/16
11mm = 7/16
14mm = 9/16
(starting to see the pattern?)

Manufacturers are not including the metric sizes which match up to common SAE sizes, either because the set purchased includes both metric and SAE or in order to encourage metric users to also purchase the SAE set given that there are more metric sizes than SAE.
Not true
At all.
The reason certain metric sizes are not included in most common tool
sets is different countries use different metric standards which use
different bolt head sizes.
Japanese cars do not use 11 or 13mm heads - they use 10 and 12 - and
14 for 6, 8, and 10mm bolts.
There are 3 main standards - ANSI/ISO, DIN, and JIS

All 3 use 7mm heads on 4mm and 8mm on 5 mm threads.
All 3 use 10mm heads on 6mm, and DIN only uses 11mm heads on 7mm
bolts.The other 2 standards do noy use any 7mm bolts.
On 8mm bolts JIS uses 12mm heads while DIN and ANSI?ISO use 13mm.
On 10mm bolts JIS uses 14mm, ANSI/ISO uses 16 and DIN uses 17mm.
On 14mm JIS uses 19, ANSI/ISO uses 21 and DIN uses 22
On 16mm JIS uses 22 while ANSI/ISO and DIN use 24
Only DIN uses 18mm with a 27mm head while ANSI/ISO and JIS use 20mm
threads with a 30mm head.
Then there are some manufacturers who go it alone and put a 11 mm
heads on a 6mm bolt.

SO for a german car you will get a set with 7,8,10,11,13,17,22,24 and
27mm.
On a Japanese set you get 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 19, 22, and 30mm
On American metrics you use 7, 8, 10 (or sometimes 11), 13, 16, 21,
24, and 30mm

More or less.

I was going to mention that *difference* between Euro and Japanese but
you beat me to it! Comprehensively so too! ;-)

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

9mm needed for top nut on shocks of Dodge ram. Also, backing nut size 18mm.