Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default how long will old boiler last?

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?

Here are the details:
I've got a Utica oil-fired boiler with radiators, in a single family home.
It's a Utica O.U. Series. I'd guess the boiler is roughly 35 years old. The
burner on it was replaced, I think in 1995. The boiler also has copper tubes
running inside it to heat the home's hot water.

When a boiler fails, does it usually fail suddenly or can I limp through a
season with a small leak by simply refilling the water? It doesn't seem to
leak now, judging by the water level in the glass tube. I have to manually
operate a valve to add water, so I'd know if the water level was noticeably
declining.

What happens with a sudden big leak? Does the burner then just not come on
because of some overheat-sensor?

If it does develop a leak, can a leak be plugged?

There's one other consideration: I had it shut down from May to December of
2008. When I started it back up, all seemed fine but later I noticed a rust
colored stain on the concrete floor. I believe that happened because of the
sudden change in temperature. There has not been a single drop of visible
leakage since that one time. When I do empty the low water shutoff every other
week or so, the water that comes out is never is rusty. It is either black if
the boiler's been run a lot, or else it's pretty clear otherwise.

So, what should I do to try and figure if it will be good through this winter,
in PA? Thanks.


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,199
Default how long will old boiler last?

On Oct 25, 2:26*pm, Tom wrote:
Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?

Here are the details:
I've got a Utica oil-fired boiler with radiators, in a single family home..
It's a Utica O.U. Series. I'd guess the boiler is roughly 35 years old. The
burner on it was replaced, I think in 1995. The boiler also has copper tubes
running inside it to heat the home's hot water.

When a boiler fails, does it usually fail suddenly or can I limp through a
season with a small leak by simply refilling the water? It doesn't seem to
leak now, judging by the water level in the glass tube. I have to manually
operate a valve to add water, so I'd know if the water level was noticeably
declining.

What happens with a sudden big leak? Does the burner then just not come on
because of some overheat-sensor?

If it does develop a leak, can a leak be plugged?

There's one other consideration: I had it shut down from May to December of
2008. When I started it back up, all seemed fine but later I noticed a rust
colored stain on the concrete floor. I believe that happened because of the
sudden change in temperature. There has not been a single drop of visible
leakage since that one time. When I do empty the low water shutoff every other
week or so, the water that comes out is never is rusty. It is either black if
the boiler's been run a lot, or else it's pretty clear otherwise.

So, what should I do to try and figure if it will be good through this winter,
in PA? Thanks.


Sounds like you have a steam boiler which is more forgiving with
leaks as opposed to a hot water baseboard boiler which is always under
10-15 PSI of water pressure from the regulator.
Generally if you have a leak below the water line, you'll know
because you'll see water on the floor. And if the leak is above the
water line, you'll see steam leaking out, and thus the boiler can
never get up to pressure.

I have seen boiler last 50 years, and I had a steam boiler that only
lasted 15 years.
Just turn it on and see if the pipes get hot and check for leaks. If
everything checks out, your good to go

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,538
Default how long will old boiler last?

Tom wrote:
Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the
one in my home will last through this coming heating season. Is there
any way to check besides looking for leaks?

Here are the details:
I've got a Utica oil-fired boiler with radiators, in a single family
home. It's a Utica O.U. Series. I'd guess the boiler is roughly 35
years old. The burner on it was replaced, I think in 1995. The boiler
also has copper tubes running inside it to heat the home's hot water.

When a boiler fails, does it usually fail suddenly or can I limp
through a season with a small leak by simply refilling the water? It
doesn't seem to leak now, judging by the water level in the glass
tube. I have to manually operate a valve to add water, so I'd know if
the water level was noticeably declining.

What happens with a sudden big leak? Does the burner then just not
come on because of some overheat-sensor?

If it does develop a leak, can a leak be plugged?

There's one other consideration: I had it shut down from May to
December of 2008. When I started it back up, all seemed fine but
later I noticed a rust colored stain on the concrete floor. I believe
that happened because of the sudden change in temperature. There has
not been a single drop of visible leakage since that one time. When I
do empty the low water shutoff every other week or so, the water that
comes out is never is rusty. It is either black if the boiler's been
run a lot, or else it's pretty clear otherwise.

So, what should I do to try and figure if it will be good through
this winter, in PA? Thanks.


It'll probably be okay.

The steamboat S.S. Sultana, during it's life, had multiple leaks in its
boilers. They were patched with iron plating and bolted in place. The
Sultana continued serving commerce on the river with little interruption.

Until three of its boilers blew up, killing an estimated 1,800 returning
Civil War Union Soldiers and sinking near Memphis.


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,405
Default how long will old boiler last?

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:26:46 -0400, Tom wrote:

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?



No way to check unless you're a chimney shaker.
If you are you, see how hard it is to drill a hole in it.
Not something I'd worry about.
Worse thing that can happen is you have to buy a kerosene heater or 2
until you get a new one in.

Hot water boilers last a looong time.
My ma replaced one because she went from coal to oil.
It was maybe 50 years old.
I replaced that one for her when it was 20 years old to go to NG.

The one in my old house is still working and is probably 60 years old.
If the water is dosed with a rust inhibitor and the fire sides
are cleaned once in a while cast iron lasts a long time.

The water heater part I don't know about.
And I'm assuming you're talking about a boiler with cast iron water
jacket, which is the only kind I've had.

Hot water boilers are normally replaced to put something more
efficient in, not because they leak.

--Vic



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 467
Default how long will old boiler last?

On Oct 25, 1:26*pm, Tom wrote:
Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?

Here are the details:
I've got a Utica oil-fired boiler with radiators, in a single family home..
It's a Utica O.U. Series. I'd guess the boiler is roughly 35 years old. The
burner on it was replaced, I think in 1995. The boiler also has copper tubes
running inside it to heat the home's hot water.

When a boiler fails, does it usually fail suddenly or can I limp through a
season with a small leak by simply refilling the water? It doesn't seem to
leak now, judging by the water level in the glass tube. I have to manually
operate a valve to add water, so I'd know if the water level was noticeably
declining.

What happens with a sudden big leak? Does the burner then just not come on
because of some overheat-sensor?

If it does develop a leak, can a leak be plugged?

There's one other consideration: I had it shut down from May to December of
2008. When I started it back up, all seemed fine but later I noticed a rust
colored stain on the concrete floor. I believe that happened because of the
sudden change in temperature. There has not been a single drop of visible
leakage since that one time. When I do empty the low water shutoff every other
week or so, the water that comes out is never is rusty. It is either black if
the boiler's been run a lot, or else it's pretty clear otherwise.

So, what should I do to try and figure if it will be good through this winter,
in PA? Thanks.


For just boiler pros post at www.heatinghelp.com I have a 55yr old
Kewanee that is now looking shot, but it has been flooded in summer
many times. Old Kewanee commercial boilers were made to be repaired
but I have no idea on the construction of your unit. If its hot water
heat you might save 20-35% on a new condensing boiler, if its steam
savings will be less but you could sav e 20% easily, so energy savings
should be something you should look into, not just how long will it
last.
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default how long will old boiler last?


"Tom" wrote in message ...
Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in
my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to
check
besides looking for leaks?

Here are the details:
I've got a Utica oil-fired boiler with radiators, in a single family home.
It's a Utica O.U. Series. I'd guess the boiler is roughly 35 years old.
The
burner on it was replaced, I think in 1995. The boiler also has copper
tubes
running inside it to heat the home's hot water.

When a boiler fails, does it usually fail suddenly or can I limp through a
season with a small leak by simply refilling the water? It doesn't seem to
leak now, judging by the water level in the glass tube. I have to manually
operate a valve to add water, so I'd know if the water level was
noticeably
declining.

What happens with a sudden big leak? Does the burner then just not come on
because of some overheat-sensor?

If it does develop a leak, can a leak be plugged?

There's one other consideration: I had it shut down from May to December
of
2008. When I started it back up, all seemed fine but later I noticed a
rust
colored stain on the concrete floor. I believe that happened because of
the
sudden change in temperature. There has not been a single drop of visible
leakage since that one time. When I do empty the low water shutoff every
other
week or so, the water that comes out is never is rusty. It is either black
if
the boiler's been run a lot, or else it's pretty clear otherwise.

So, what should I do to try and figure if it will be good through this
winter,
in PA? Thanks.


The only thing on it with moving parts is the burner, and you've replaced
that. It's 35 years old, no autofill, probably no low water cutoff, it's
really unlikely to suddenly have a catastrophic crack. I certainly wouldn't
lose sleep over it.



  #8   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default how long will old boiler last?


Vic Smith wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:26:46 -0400, Tom wrote:

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?


No way to check unless you're a chimney shaker.
If you are you, see how hard it is to drill a hole in it.
Not something I'd worry about.
Worse thing that can happen is you have to buy a kerosene heater or 2
until you get a new one in.

Hot water boilers last a looong time.
My ma replaced one because she went from coal to oil.
It was maybe 50 years old.
I replaced that one for her when it was 20 years old to go to NG.

The one in my old house is still working and is probably 60 years old.
If the water is dosed with a rust inhibitor and the fire sides
are cleaned once in a while cast iron lasts a long time.

The water heater part I don't know about.
And I'm assuming you're talking about a boiler with cast iron water
jacket, which is the only kind I've had.


It's the common tankless DHW coil inside the boiler jacket. When those
die, typically due to hard water deposits and corrosion in them, you
either replace them if the part is available or switch to an indirect
fired DHW tank setup.


Hot water boilers are normally replaced to put something more
efficient in, not because they leak.


Yes, and if it is a good quality boiler and already had a burner
replacement in 1995 it's going to be running pretty close to the
efficiency of a new until already if it's in proper tune.
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default how long will old boiler last?

On 10/26/2010 8:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:26:46 -0400, Tom wrote:

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?


[snipped]

It's the common tankless DHW coil inside the boiler jacket. When those
die, typically due to hard water deposits and corrosion in them, you
either replace them if the part is available or switch to an indirect
fired DHW tank setup.


First off, thanks to everybody for all the great replies. I'll probably see if
I make it through this season and then maybe switch to a gas boiler next year.
Yes, it is steam heat here.

I'm getting frazzled looking at pages for "indirect DHW setup" quoted above,
even this brochu
http://www.amtrol.com/pdf/BoilermateMC10009low.pdf
but nobody explains what exactly it is. It's apparently a separate tank,
rather than having the coils right in the boiler primary water - but where
does it go? How does it attach to or connect with the boiler?

Thanks again, I learned a lot.




  #12   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default how long will old boiler last?


Tom wrote:

On 10/26/2010 8:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:26:46 -0400, Tom wrote:

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last? I'm trying to determine if the one in my
home will last through this coming heating season. Is there any way to check
besides looking for leaks?


[snipped]

It's the common tankless DHW coil inside the boiler jacket. When those
die, typically due to hard water deposits and corrosion in them, you
either replace them if the part is available or switch to an indirect
fired DHW tank setup.


First off, thanks to everybody for all the great replies. I'll probably see if
I make it through this season and then maybe switch to a gas boiler next year.
Yes, it is steam heat here.

I'm getting frazzled looking at pages for "indirect DHW setup" quoted above,
even this brochu
http://www.amtrol.com/pdf/BoilermateMC10009low.pdf
but nobody explains what exactly it is. It's apparently a separate tank,
rather than having the coils right in the boiler primary water - but where
does it go? How does it attach to or connect with the boiler?

Thanks again, I learned a lot.


Indirect fired DHW tanks are separate highly insulated hot water tanks,
much like a standalone water heater. Instead of having a burner or
electric heater, they have a heat exchanger coil which is plumbed into
the existing boiler like an additional zone. They work quite well, but
the tankless DHW coils are common, cheaper and also work pretty well.

If you are looking to replace the boiler, be sure to do an accurate
comparison of your options. Don't fall for the common ploy of comparing
a new gas boiler to an obsolete oil boiler. Compare apples to apples,
i.e. a new gas boiler of a given quality level to a new oil boiler of a
given quality level. Also include in your comparison items such as
monthly service charges for gas service, annual maintenance costs, etc.
along with the cost per BTU for each fuel.

If you're looking at a system replacement you should also look at the
big picture and include in your comparison a change to a heat pump (air
or ground source as appropriate) which would give you both heating and
cooling. Installing ductwork is an added expense, but there are some
decent options there depending on the structure, and in replacing a
boiler you might well switch to hydronic instead of steam which would
entail replacing radiators.

You certainly don't appear to have any time pressure, so you have plenty
of time to research the options and if you decide to make a change, make
it during the cheaper off season.
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default how long will old boiler last?


wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:13:43 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 08:56:04 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 15:14:14 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:26:46 -0400, Tom wrote:

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last?

I'd say that at 35 years, you are well beyond the normal service life.
Utica makes good boilers, but 35 years is a long time for a
residential boiler.

I wouldn't agree with that at all.


Take it up with the manufacturers, then. I think they know a little
more than you do about the AVERAGE service life of the products they
build.

The manufacturers want to sell boilers, not give customers the maximum
service life. If you're paranoid you can replace your boiler every year
if you want, or you could be sane and do an actual evaluation of the
unit to see if it actually has any issues.

The manufacturers don't maintain statistics on average boiler service
life just to sell boilers. In any event, it is a statistic, based on
historical records, and not an arbitrary number.


Based on warranty claims and parts sales, which really don't tell the
full picture.


bzzzt!


How many people do you think report to the OEM that their long out of
warranty boiler had failed, was not economically repairable and was
being replaced? The answer is close to zero, therefore the OEM has very
little information on the true field longevity of their equipment.
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default how long will old boiler last?


wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:29:42 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:13:43 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 08:56:04 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 15:14:14 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:26:46 -0400, Tom wrote:

Here's my question stated simply:
How long do boilers generally last?

I'd say that at 35 years, you are well beyond the normal service life.
Utica makes good boilers, but 35 years is a long time for a
residential boiler.

I wouldn't agree with that at all.


Take it up with the manufacturers, then. I think they know a little
more than you do about the AVERAGE service life of the products they
build.

The manufacturers want to sell boilers, not give customers the maximum
service life. If you're paranoid you can replace your boiler every year
if you want, or you could be sane and do an actual evaluation of the
unit to see if it actually has any issues.

The manufacturers don't maintain statistics on average boiler service
life just to sell boilers. In any event, it is a statistic, based on
historical records, and not an arbitrary number.

Based on warranty claims and parts sales, which really don't tell the
full picture.

bzzzt!


How many people do you think report to the OEM that their long out of
warranty boiler had failed, was not economically repairable and was
being replaced? The answer is close to zero, therefore the OEM has very
little information on the true field longevity of their equipment.


Oddly enough, the people who sell, service and install boilers have a
lot of contact with the manufacturers. They sometimes talk about
something other than the weather.


Really? I thought they spent their time posting on alt.hvac...
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,025
Default how long will old boiler last?


"Tom" wrote in message

Does anybody make an indirect DHW that uses the boiler to heat the DHW
during
the cold season, but has a secondary heater (electric or gas) for the warm
weather when the boiler isn't being used?


NO, because it is not needed. New boilers are very efficient and even in
summer will be cheap to operate for DHW. My boiler is oil and is much
cheaper than electric and has more capacity than a stand alone gas heater.
If no water is needed, it will not run at all for days since the storage
tank is well insulated. A heat exchanger moves the heat to the water tank.
An efficient system moves virtually all the heat from the boiler to the tank
too. .


Here's another wrinkle regarding gas vs oil: two years ago, the oil burner
one
afternoon just didn't come on, even though the thermostat was calling for
heat. It did fire up again once I'd hit the reset - but what if I was away
for
a few days? That could have been the nightmare scenario of a burst pipe
(even
in the short section between where the water supply enters the house and
the
house's main shutoff valve). Btw, the service guy that came a week later
didn't have any explanation as to how/why the burner failed to light. But
he
did say that oil was less reliable in that way than gas.


My old boiler used to do that at time, the new one not at all, at least not
yet. Oil is more prone to go out on the reset than gas from my experience.
If you don't get ignition for any one a a myriad of reasons, it trips for
safety. Pump did not pump enough, igniter did not spark well enough, a
piece of carbon got across the tip of the igniter, etc.

That said, any heater with any fuel has the potential to break.






  #16   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default how long will old boiler last?

On 11/8/2010 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Here's another wrinkle regarding gas vs oil: two years ago, the oil burner one
afternoon just didn't come on, even though the thermostat was calling for
heat. It did fire up again once I'd hit the reset - but what if I was away for
a few days? That could have been the nightmare scenario of a burst pipe (even
in the short section between where the water supply enters the house and the
house's main shutoff valve). Btw, the service guy that came a week later
didn't have any explanation as to how/why the burner failed to light. But he
did say that oil was less reliable in that way than gas.


My old boiler used to do that at time, the new one not at all, at least not
yet. Oil is more prone to go out on the reset than gas from my experience. If
you don't get ignition for any one a a myriad of reasons, it trips for
safety. Pump did not pump enough, igniter did not spark well enough, a piece
of carbon got across the tip of the igniter, etc.


Thanks. One thing I hadn't mentioned was that there was no smell of oil after
the failure to ignite incident. (I did swivel open the hatch at the time, and
I'd suppose it'd take a while for fuel oil to evaporate from the closed
chamber up the chimney.) So I'd guess that tends to argue against lack of
spark. Yet why would it not pump oil during the failed instance, but then
start right up later? I suppose it's possible that the burner motor wasn't
getting electricity momentarily, but the sensing-controlling circuits were...

There had been one occasion a couple of years previous, where the burner
wouldn't run at all until I'd removed certain wires and re-attached them to
their terminals. It is a damp cellar, too.
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,025
Default how long will old boiler last?


"Tom" wrote
Thanks. One thing I hadn't mentioned was that there was no smell of oil
after
the failure to ignite incident. (I did swivel open the hatch at the time,
and
I'd suppose it'd take a while for fuel oil to evaporate from the closed
chamber up the chimney.) So I'd guess that tends to argue against lack of
spark.


It may not smell, especially if there was a time lag before you noticed it.
If it happens again, just reach in and rub the electrode with your finger
and it may start. All it takes is a hairline piece of carbon from tip to
ground to stop it from firing.

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is planning control normally involved in the replacement of a boiler? Sorry, long post. Nick UK diy 9 February 25th 10 11:27 AM
Just how dificult can fixing a boiler be (long)? Ed Sirett UK diy 13 December 29th 07 01:04 PM
New Boiler = Room Stat = Part 'P' & Part 'L' question (long) . UK diy 52 January 6th 06 11:13 AM
How long does it take hot water to get from combi boiler to shower? DIY Novice UK diy 7 May 25th 04 11:07 AM
Combi boiler - long wait to get hot water ChrisJ UK diy 26 November 23rd 03 02:30 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"