On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 18:51:43 +0100, Clive wrote:

In message , Jules Richardson
writes
Or you get a "Friday engine", assembled by someone who is itching to get
away for the weekend and so not paying as much attention to their work as
they should :-(

This was the problem with British cars. Every car was a Friday
afternoon car.

Nah! The cars were cool!

Blame it on Lucas, the Prince of Darkness.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:54:15 +0000, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 18:51:43 +0100, Clive wrote:

In message , Jules Richardson
writes
Or you get a "Friday engine", assembled by someone who is itching to
get away for the weekend and so not paying as much attention to their
work as they should :-(

This was the problem with British cars. Every car was a Friday
afternoon car.

Nah! The cars were cool!

Blame it on Lucas, the Prince of Darkness.

I've owned a few 70's British cars over the years and to be honest never
had much problem with Lucas - no worse than electrics in other cars.
Moisture seems to be the main killer, not quality issues with the parts
themselves.

cheers

Jules

On 2010-08-24, Jules Richardson wrote:

I've owned a few 70's British cars over the years and to be honest never
had much problem with Lucas - no worse than electrics in other cars.
Moisture seems to be the main killer, not quality issues with the parts
themselves.

I agree. I've owned a few Limey cars and lotsa Brit bikes. I know
the older bikes blew bulbs cuz of the bizarre fluctuations of their
weird zenier diode based electrical system, but no more than the
sealed head lamps of my body-numbing vibrator HD Sportster. I never
had a prob with Lucas lights/electrics on any of the cars I had.

I think that whole myth is jes something perpetuated by dolts with no
experience with Lucas and who just like saying the phrase.

"Du-uh... Lucas, prince of darkness. heh heh...." [drool]

nb

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:39:51 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:54:15 +0000, Hachiroku ???? wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 18:51:43 +0100, Clive wrote:

In message , Jules Richardson
writes
Or you get a "Friday engine", assembled by someone who is itching to
get away for the weekend and so not paying as much attention to their
work as they should :-(

This was the problem with British cars. Every car was a Friday
afternoon car.

Nah! The cars were cool!

Blame it on Lucas, the Prince of Darkness.

I've owned a few 70's British cars over the years and to be honest never
had much problem with Lucas - no worse than electrics in other cars.
Moisture seems to be the main killer, not quality issues with the parts
themselves.

You must be the only one. A friend basically had to redesign the entire
electrical system himself. The Lucas didn't like the Tucson heat at all. He
had to hike home more than once.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
wrote:

I've owned a few 70's British cars over the years and to be honest never
had much problem with Lucas - no worse than electrics in other cars.
Moisture seems to be the main killer, not quality issues with the parts
themselves.

You must be the only one. A friend basically had to redesign the entire
electrical system himself. The Lucas didn't like the Tucson heat at all. He
had to hike home more than once.

Lucas made some good parts and they also made some junk. MG decided to
use the junk.

Whoever the hell it was that decided running 25A into the dashboard
switch to avoid using a headlight relay... that was an MG employee, not a
Lucas one.

Yes, a complete electrical redesign is in order on these cars, but I don't
think Lucas is really to blame for the horrors that MG perpetrated.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 2010-08-25, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Whoever the hell it was that decided running 25A into the dashboard
switch to avoid using a headlight relay... that was an MG employee, not a
Lucas one.

That explains a lot. I only had Austin Healeys and Triumphs. Never
had any problems with Lucas on either of them. Don't recall ever
changing a light bulb, front or back. Some of the tail light lens
designs sucked donkey dick. Those stupid out-there tail light lenses
on the Spitefire were always getting whacked by cars, bicycles, baby
strollers, stray cats, gentle summer breezes....

nb

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:27:30 GMT, notbob wrote:
That explains a lot.

As an update, I stopped by a small engine shop and the mechanic, an old
school buddy whom I trust, said they make a special tool to adjust the Low
and High carbeurator 'pins'.

He didn't have it for the Craftsman (he worked only on Husqvarna) but he
said they exist for each brand.

Does anyone know where to get the California adjustment tool for the
Poulan? I called Poulan customer support 866-802-6383 but all they said was
that it's illegal for an owner to adjust his carbeurator in California.

So, do you know where I can get those adjustment tools for the Poulan carb
screws?

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:03:13 -0700, SF Man wrote:
Does anyone know where to get the California adjustment tool for the
Poulan? I called chain saw customer support 866-802-6383 but all they said was
that it's illegal for an owner to adjust his carbeurator in California.

I called another number, 1.800.554.6723 and Poulan customer support said
it's illegal for them to sell a California carbeurator adjustment tool (P/N
530035560) to the public, but, (here's the catch), I can go to any
authorized dealer and they CAN sell the California carbeurator adjustment
tool to me.

Laws are weird.

Poulan customer service gave me a list of dealers but once I realized I can
get the Poulan carburetor adjustment tool, I simply googled for "Poulan
530035560 Splined Carburetor Adjustment Tool" and will buy it off the web
if I can't get it locally at the Poulan authorized dealers.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:18:02 -0700, SF Man wrote:
I simply googled for "Poulan 530035560 Splined Carburetor Adjustment Tool"

I'm curious. Is a "spline" what those California carburator adjustment
"pins" are?

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:57:45 -0700, SF Man wrote:
Do you know where to find the tune-up procedure for the Sears Craftsman
358.351.800 18 inch chain saw?

I found a good video for tuning the Poulan Craftsman chain saw carburator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lw0pJcEPYo

I ordered the splined carburator adjustment tool so that I can adjust the
non-adjustable California 'pins' for the Low and High settings.
http://www.hyperparts.com/wc.dll?ctw...1003~530035560

It's important to note that we need 92 psi in order for a 2-stroke engine
to run according to the dealer I spoke with today so I'll also check the
compression (I need to change the fitting on my compression tester which
was for 70's model car spark plugs with a different thread than this chain
saw).

Anything else you suggest?

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:44:37 -0700, SF Man
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:57:45 -0700, SF Man wrote:
Do you know where to find the tune-up procedure for the Sears Craftsman
358.351.800 18 inch chain saw?

I found a good video for tuning the Poulan Craftsman chain saw carburator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lw0pJcEPYo

I ordered the splined carburator adjustment tool so that I can adjust the
non-adjustable California 'pins' for the Low and High settings.
http://www.hyperparts.com/wc.dll?ctw...1003~530035560

It's important to note that we need 92 psi in order for a 2-stroke engine
to run according to the dealer I spoke with today so I'll also check the
compression (I need to change the fitting on my compression tester which
was for 70's model car spark plugs with a different thread than this chain
saw).

Anything else you suggest?

Follow the steps in the video -- that was good. He tuned it by ear. I
do this with all my small engines.

He suggested removing the muffler to check for scoring on the rings
and piston. Unless you have piston, rings, cylinder damage -- chances
are your compression is _good_. This is not an old unit.

Cross the state line into Nevada and adjust the carb, so you don't
break the law G.

On Aug 25, 11:27*am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:44:37 -0700, SF Man
wrote:



On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:57:45 -0700, SF Man wrote:
Do you know where to find the tune-up procedure for the Sears Craftsman
358.351.800 18 inch chain saw?

I found a good video for tuning the Poulan Craftsman chain saw carburator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lw0pJcEPYo

I ordered the splined carburator adjustment tool so that I can adjust the
non-adjustable California 'pins' for the Low and High settings.
http://www.hyperparts.com/wc.dll?ctw...1003~530035560

It's important to note that we need 92 psi in order for a 2-stroke engine
to run according to the dealer I spoke with today so I'll also check the
compression (I need to change the fitting on my compression tester which
was for 70's model car spark plugs with a different thread than this chain
saw).

Anything else you suggest?

Follow the steps in the video -- that was good. He tuned it by ear. I
do this with all my small engines.

He suggested removing the muffler to check for scoring on the rings
and piston. *Unless you have piston, rings, cylinder damage -- chances
are your compression is _good_. *This is not an old unit.

Cross the state line into Nevada and adjust the carb, so you don't
break the law G.

==
Following this thread is like following an action-packed soap opera.
Will SF Man ever get his chainsaw to work?...stay tuned for the next
episode.

Just kidding...keep at it.
==

On Aug 25, 9:25*am, SF Man wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:18:02 -0700, SF Man wrote:
I simply googled for "Poulan 530035560 Splined Carburetor Adjustment Tool"

I'm curious. Is a "spline" what those California carburator adjustment
"pins" are?

I'm wondering if this isn't a small Torx tool. With them calling it
a spline.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:27:46 -0700, Oren wrote:
Cross the state line into Nevada and adjust the carb, so you don't
break the law G.

I'm close to the Pacific ocean. I wonder how far I have to go out to be
governed my international law.

I can't wait for my "splined" tool to arrive. The "pins" on the L and H
carburator screws seem to be smooth but we'll see when the tool arrives.

It was a good suggestion to remove the muffler to check the rings; and the
92 PSI is a good idea to test compression also (although the Craftsman
chainsaw is only 1 year old with only a few hours on it).

I'm beginning to hate Craftsman / Poulan ... by the way ... but I'll save
the rant for another day.

On Aug 25, 3:00*pm, Bob Villa wrote:
On Aug 25, 9:25*am, SF Man wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:18:02 -0700, SF Man wrote:
I simply googled for "Poulan 530035560 Splined Carburetor Adjustment Tool"

I'm curious. Is a "spline" what those California carburator adjustment
"pins" are?

I'm wondering if *this isn't a small Torx tool. *With them calling it
a spline.

No, it is not torx. They make a couple different sizes of these
splined tools. They are like a nut driver, but splined. I have one. It
is an absolute necessity when adjusting carbs.

Hank

On Aug 26, 4:56*am, Hank wrote:
On Aug 25, 3:00*pm, Bob Villa wrote:

On Aug 25, 9:25*am, SF Man wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:18:02 -0700, SF Man wrote:
I simply googled for "Poulan 530035560 Splined Carburetor Adjustment Tool"

I'm curious. Is a "spline" what those California carburator adjustment
"pins" are?

I'm wondering if *this isn't a small Torx tool. *With them calling it
a spline.

No, it is not torx. They make a couple different sizes of these
splined tools. They are like a nut driver, but splined. I have one. It
is an absolute necessity when adjusting carbs.

Hank

How many teeth to the spline...could you use a torx deck screw and
make one?

I'm also following. Good luck, SF man.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Roy"
wrote in message
...

==
Following this thread is like following an action-packed soap opera.
Will SF Man ever get his chainsaw to work?...stay tuned for the next
episode.

Just kidding...keep at it.
==

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:12:14 -0700, SF Man wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:27:46 -0700, Oren wrote:
Cross the state line into Nevada and adjust the carb, so you don't
break the law G.

I'm close to the Pacific ocean. I wonder how far I have to go out to be
governed my international law.

I can't wait for my "splined" tool to arrive. The "pins" on the L and H
carburator screws seem to be smooth but we'll see when the tool arrives.

It was a good suggestion to remove the muffler to check the rings; and
the 92 PSI is a good idea to test compression also (although the
Craftsman chainsaw is only 1 year old with only a few hours on it).

Let us know what you eventually find out...

cheers

Jules

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:12:14 -0700, SF Man
wrote:

I can't wait for my "splined" tool to arrive. The "pins" on the L and H
carburator screws seem to be smooth but we'll see when the tool arrives.

I'm betting you could use a dremel tool and cut a slot in the heads of
the screws. Then use a standard screwdriver. No?

On Aug 26, 7:31*am, Bob Villa wrote:
On Aug 26, 4:56*am, Hank wrote:





On Aug 25, 3:00*pm, Bob Villa wrote:

On Aug 25, 9:25*am, SF Man wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:18:02 -0700, SF Man wrote:
I simply googled for "Poulan 530035560 Splined Carburetor Adjustment Tool"

I'm curious. Is a "spline" what those California carburator adjustment
"pins" are?

I'm wondering if *this isn't a small Torx tool. *With them calling it
a spline.

No, it is not torx. They make a couple different sizes of these
splined tools. They are like a nut driver, but splined. I have one. It
is an absolute necessity when adjusting carbs.

Hank

How many teeth to the spline...could you use a torx deck screw and
make one? - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I never tried, but I doubt it because teh splines are so fine and
small.

Hank

On Aug 26, 12:41*pm, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:12:14 -0700, SF Man
wrote:

I can't wait for my "splined" tool to arrive. The "pins" on the L and H
carburator screws seem to be smooth but we'll see when the tool arrives.

I'm betting you could use a dremel tool and cut a slot in the heads of
the screws. Then use a standard screwdriver. No?

The screws are recessed in a metal surrounding. It would be very
difficult to do. I did talk to a couple guys who said they used those
crimp-on wire connectors and slid them over. I tried that method but
couldn't get it to work. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Anyway, my
tool has paid for itself... $5.

Also on a side note to all that is following.........when dis-
assembling something as complicated as a carb, or even something you
have never taken apart, take pics of it BEFORE and DURING dis-
assembly. By doing this, you won't be confused as to where that spring
goes, where the linkage goes and etc. when you want to re-assemble it.

Hank

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:42:18 -0700 (PDT), Hank wrote:

splines are so fine and small.

I have to agree. The tool is inexpensive (shipping costs more than the
tool). It hasn't arrived yet so I can't tell you more.

On the pins, the "splines", if they're there at all, must be so tiny I
can't see them. You can't actually touch the screw because it's recessed
and they put a plastic housing around it expressly so you could not get
pliars around it. They really look like pins more than screws.

The only thing you can get on them is some socket-like thing (which I'm
hoping the spline tool is).

Does anyone have a PICTURE of the splines close up so we can see what we're
dealing with?

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:21:41 -0700, SF Man
wrote:

Still waiting for the tool to arrive.

Me too!

Hang in, you're almost there.

CORDED:
The reason a chain saw can't use a power cord is that it would need to
be
hundreds upon hundreds of feet long and would be impossible to drag
through
the chaparral without catching on scores of bushes, rocks, and trees.

CY: Even with a portable generator, still not really convenient.

BATTERY:
The reason a chain saw can't use a battery is that it would die after
felling only a few trees and cutting up the limbs. We'd spend more
time
waiting for it to charge than cutting.

CY: Need the new Nuclear Power Batteries. They are sold out of North
Korea, on Ebay. Don't want the Iranian Nuclear Power Batteries, they
sometimes explode.

FOUR STROKE:
The reason most chain saws aren't four strokes, as far as I can tell,
is
that four strokes without oil pumps can't be placed in all the
positions
that a chain saw needs to be without spilling oil into the cylinder.

CY: And they are heavier. The used to be made, for felling trees. When
one knows the saw operation is always going to be in the same
position. They were operated by two men.

TWO STROKE:
The reason most chain saws are two strokes, I presume, is that is less
expensive than a oil-pump driven four stroke and the two stroke works
in
any position.

CY: Also, the two stroke fires on every piston stroke, so the HP to
weight ratio is much higher.

BTW, if there are good four-stroke chain saws on the market, let me
know
which you prefer.

CY: I havn't looked, but they are likely out of the home owner price
range.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:25:42 -0700, SF Man wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:04:56 -0700 (PDT), zzyzzx wrote:

get a new chainsaw that uses electricity instead.

You're joking right?

Gas turbine is the way to go... ;-)

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:57:45 -0700, SF Man wrote:
The Sears Craftsman 358351 chain saw is now about a year old, and I've got
only about 3 or 4 hours on it (a few tanks of gas and bar oil) but it now
won't even start anymore except when left overnight. Even then, it only
runs until I lift my finger off the trigger and it conks out and won't
start again.

Thanks for all the help you guys. This is my followup message.

I never could get it started. I brought it to an engin-repair shop and they
just called to tell me it's unrepairable.

The compression was 50psi but apparently two-stroke engines need 90psi to
start.

He said he removed the muffler and he could see the scored piston. I have
NO IDEA why the Craftsman/Poulan piston scored after only a year of
occasional use, as I have been the only use of the chainsaw and I never
abused it.

Sears has a 2-year warranty but I'd have to find my receipt and they might
say I neglected it (even though I can't imagine how I did that).

Next time someone can't start a two-stroke, one of the first things I'll
ask him to do is check the compression and remove the muffler to see if the
pistons are scored.



PS: Any idea what to do with the now-useless chain saw?

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:47:34 -0700, SF Man
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:57:45 -0700, SF Man wrote:
The Sears Craftsman 358351 chain saw is now about a year old, and I've got
only about 3 or 4 hours on it (a few tanks of gas and bar oil) but it now
won't even start anymore except when left overnight. Even then, it only
runs until I lift my finger off the trigger and it conks out and won't
start again.

Thanks for all the help you guys. This is my followup message.


Thanks for the follow up.

I never could get it started. I brought it to an engin-repair shop and they
just called to tell me it's unrepairable.


The video you found on youtube showed how to do this check. Did the
shop charge you for this?

The compression was 50psi but apparently two-stroke engines need 90psi to
start.

He said he removed the muffler and he could see the scored piston. I have
NO IDEA why the Craftsman/Poulan piston scored after only a year of
occasional use, as I have been the only use of the chainsaw and I never
abused it.

Lack of "enough" oil in the gas mixture? Always better for a little
more oil and foul a plug than not enough oil.


Sears has a 2-year warranty but I'd have to find my receipt and they might
say I neglected it (even though I can't imagine how I did that).

If you bought it with a credit card, some cards give an additional
warranty. I have a drawer in the garage for receipts and manuals. It's
my go to place when looking for "papers"


Next time someone can't start a two-stroke, one of the first things I'll
ask him to do is check the compression and remove the muffler to see if the
pistons are scored.



PS: Any idea what to do with the now-useless chain saw?

Boat anchor? Or part it out and sell the parts!

On Sep 20, 4:47*pm, SF Man wrote:


Thanks for all the help you guys. This is my followup message.

I never could get it started. I brought it to an engin-repair shop and they
just called to tell me it's unrepairable.

The compression was 50psi but apparently two-stroke engines need 90psi to
start.

He said he removed the muffler and he could see the scored piston. I have
NO IDEA why the Craftsman/Poulan piston scored after only a year of
occasional use, as I have been the only use of the chainsaw and I never
abused it.

Sears has a 2-year warranty but I'd have to find my receipt and they might
say I neglected it (even though I can't imagine how I did that).

Next time someone can't start a two-stroke, one of the first things I'll
ask him to do is check the compression and remove the muffler to see if the
pistons are scored.



PS: Any idea what to do with the now-useless chain saw?

I had a guy bring me his 14hp Kawasaki mower that didn't run. He took
it to the biggest small engine repair shop in Columbus Ohio. They told
him his cylinder was scored and had low compression. They disassembled
it and it was in pieces. Cost him $200. I looked and the cylinders
were in great shape. I lapped in the valves and gaped them. Started
first pull.

I suggest you get another opinion since you only used it occasionally.
Many shops take in stuff and never even attempt to fix it, only to
charge you a "diagnostic charge". I hope they didn't charge you.

Hank

I'd like you to ship it to me, so I can play with it. But, I'm
guessing the postage would be a bit much. Post Office won't ship
anything that once held gasoline. Have to be UPS.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"SF Man" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:57:45 -0700, SF Man wrote:
The Sears Craftsman 358351 chain saw is now about a year old, and
I've got
only about 3 or 4 hours on it (a few tanks of gas and bar oil) but
it now
won't even start anymore except when left overnight. Even then, it
only
runs until I lift my finger off the trigger and it conks out and
won't
start again.

Thanks for all the help you guys. This is my followup message.

I never could get it started. I brought it to an engin-repair shop and
they
just called to tell me it's unrepairable.

The compression was 50psi but apparently two-stroke engines need 90psi
to
start.

He said he removed the muffler and he could see the scored piston. I
have
NO IDEA why the Craftsman/Poulan piston scored after only a year of
occasional use, as I have been the only use of the chainsaw and I
never
abused it.

Sears has a 2-year warranty but I'd have to find my receipt and they
might
say I neglected it (even though I can't imagine how I did that).

Next time someone can't start a two-stroke, one of the first things
I'll
ask him to do is check the compression and remove the muffler to see
if the
pistons are scored.



PS: Any idea what to do with the now-useless chain saw?

"SF Man" wrote in message news:i5e8na$2d7 FOUR
STROKE:
The reason most chain saws aren't four strokes, as far as I can tell, is
that four strokes without oil pumps can't be placed in all the positions
that a chain saw needs to be without spilling oil into the cylinder.

TWO STROKE:
The reason most chain saws are two strokes, I presume, is that is less
expensive than a oil-pump driven four stroke and the two stroke works in
any position.

Where weight counts, as in a chainsaw, the two stroke cycle gives you
power on every stroke where the 4 stroke cycle is only on every other
stroke. That is really why. But to make a "run in any position" four
stroke would increase the complexity.

In article ,
"hls" wrote:

"SF Man" wrote in message news:i5e8na$2d7 FOUR
STROKE:
The reason most chain saws aren't four strokes, as far as I can tell, is
that four strokes without oil pumps can't be placed in all the positions
that a chain saw needs to be without spilling oil into the cylinder.

TWO STROKE:
The reason most chain saws are two strokes, I presume, is that is less
expensive than a oil-pump driven four stroke and the two stroke works in
any position.

Where weight counts, as in a chainsaw, the two stroke cycle gives you
power on every stroke where the 4 stroke cycle is only on every other
stroke. That is really why. But to make a "run in any position" four
stroke would increase the complexity.

Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"hls" wrote:

"SF Man" wrote in message news:i5e8na$2d7 FOUR
STROKE:
The reason most chain saws aren't four strokes, as far as I can tell, is
that four strokes without oil pumps can't be placed in all the positions
that a chain saw needs to be without spilling oil into the cylinder.

TWO STROKE:
The reason most chain saws are two strokes, I presume, is that is less
expensive than a oil-pump driven four stroke and the two stroke works in
any position.
Where weight counts, as in a chainsaw, the two stroke cycle gives you
power on every stroke where the 4 stroke cycle is only on every other
stroke. That is really why. But to make a "run in any position" four
stroke would increase the complexity.

Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.

Compression and exhaust are with the piston going up. A
four-mode cycle gives power from a given cylinder on every
other crank rotation.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"hls" wrote:

"SF Man" wrote in message news:i5e8na$2d7 FOUR
STROKE:
The reason most chain saws aren't four strokes, as far as I can tell, is
that four strokes without oil pumps can't be placed in all the positions
that a chain saw needs to be without spilling oil into the cylinder.

TWO STROKE:
The reason most chain saws are two strokes, I presume, is that is less
expensive than a oil-pump driven four stroke and the two stroke works in
any position.
Where weight counts, as in a chainsaw, the two stroke cycle gives you
power on every stroke where the 4 stroke cycle is only on every other
stroke. That is really why. But to make a "run in any position" four
stroke would increase the complexity.

Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.

Compression and exhaust are with the piston going up. A
four-mode cycle gives power from a given cylinder on every
other crank rotation.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml

I think it's a misnomer to call a crank rotation a "stroke." The four
strokes of a four-stroke ICE are as noted, so you get power on every
fourth stroke. I can't tell from your post whether you agree with that.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:12:57 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.

Compression and exhaust are with the piston going up. A
four-mode cycle gives power from a given cylinder on every
other crank rotation.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml

I think it's a misnomer to call a crank rotation a "stroke." The four
strokes of a four-stroke ICE are as noted, so you get power on every
fourth stroke. I can't tell from your post whether you agree with that.

The poster confused me a little (nothing permanent).

The lobe on the crank/cam still needs to turn four times... thus four
strokes.

I've always called it: intake, compression, power and exhaust.
Counting combustion the same as the power stroke.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"hls" wrote:

"SF Man" wrote in message news:i5e8na$2d7 FOUR
STROKE:
The reason most chain saws aren't four strokes, as far as I can tell, is
that four strokes without oil pumps can't be placed in all the positions
that a chain saw needs to be without spilling oil into the cylinder.

TWO STROKE:
The reason most chain saws are two strokes, I presume, is that is less
expensive than a oil-pump driven four stroke and the two stroke works in
any position.
Where weight counts, as in a chainsaw, the two stroke cycle gives you
power on every stroke where the 4 stroke cycle is only on every other
stroke. That is really why. But to make a "run in any position" four
stroke would increase the complexity.
Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.
Compression and exhaust are with the piston going up. A
four-mode cycle gives power from a given cylinder on every
other crank rotation.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml

I think it's a misnomer to call a crank rotation a "stroke." The four
strokes of a four-stroke ICE are as noted, so you get power on every
fourth stroke. I can't tell from your post whether you agree with that.

We all agree on what it is. How to describe that is
semantically nebulous in modern English.

In one sense strokes go up _and_ down so every fourth stroke
is powered.
In another sense every other full rotation has a powered
half-turn, 'full revolution' being a more common use of the
term 'stroke'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:12:57 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I
was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.

Compression and exhaust are with the piston going up. A
four-mode cycle gives power from a given cylinder on every
other crank rotation.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml

I think it's a misnomer to call a crank rotation a "stroke." The four
strokes of a four-stroke ICE are as noted, so you get power on every
fourth stroke. I can't tell from your post whether you agree with that.

The poster confused me a little (nothing permanent).

The lobe on the crank/cam still needs to turn four times... thus four
strokes.

I've always called it: intake, compression, power and exhaust.
Counting combustion the same as the power stroke.

Am I mistaken, or does a "four stroke" fire on every other rotation? The
ignition spark powers the crank down from a few degrees BTDC for power with
all valves closed, and the upcoming piston pushes out the exhaust with the
exhaust valve open. When it reaches TDC, the downward traveling piston
sucks in gas through the open/opening intake valve, and when it reaches its
designated firing degree BTDC, it fires. Every other stroke.

With a two stroke, the spark plug fires every rotation, with the intake and
exhaust being achieved by a porting system routing gas and exhaust on
different sides of the piston.

Class?

Class?

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Steve B" wrote in
:



Am I mistaken, or does a "four stroke" fire on every other rotation?



You're all mistaken.

A "four stroke" is a teenage boy. That's how many strokes it takes him to
"fire" when viewing online female-anatomical matter.


--
Tegger

On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:14:49 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:12:57 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

Here's what I remember from building the "Visible V-8" model when I
was
a kid: intake, compression, combustion (power), exhaust. I count power
on every fourth stroke.

Compression and exhaust are with the piston going up. A
four-mode cycle gives power from a given cylinder on every
other crank rotation.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml

I think it's a misnomer to call a crank rotation a "stroke." The four
strokes of a four-stroke ICE are as noted, so you get power on every
fourth stroke. I can't tell from your post whether you agree with that.

The poster confused me a little (nothing permanent).

The lobe on the crank/cam still needs to turn four times... thus four
strokes.

I've always called it: intake, compression, power and exhaust.
Counting combustion the same as the power stroke.

Am I mistaken, or does a "four stroke" fire on every other rotation? The
ignition spark powers the crank down from a few degrees BTDC for power with
all valves closed, and the upcoming piston pushes out the exhaust with the
exhaust valve open. When it reaches TDC, the downward traveling piston
sucks in gas through the open/opening intake valve, and when it reaches its
designated firing degree BTDC, it fires. Every other stroke.


The spark ignition happens at the top of the compression stroke TDC
(valves closed). When fuel/air is compressed and fired piston drops
to BDC ready for the exhaust stroke (valves open). No?

With a two stroke, the spark plug fires every rotation, with the intake and
exhaust being achieved by a porting system routing gas and exhaust on
different sides of the piston.

Class?

Class?

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Tegger ) writes:
"Steve B" wrote in
:




Am I mistaken, or does a "four stroke" fire on every other rotation?




You're all mistaken.

A "four stroke" is a teenage boy. That's how many strokes it takes him to
"fire" when viewing online female-anatomical matter.


Doesn't a teenage boy become a "two stroke", and a teenage
girl a "four stroke", when coupled?



--
Tegger

"Oren" wrote
..


The spark ignition happens at the top of the compression stroke TDC
(valves closed). When fuel/air is compressed and fired piston drops
to BDC ready for the exhaust stroke (valves open). No?

No. Spark happens, piston travels to bottom, on the upstroke, the exhaust
valve opens, piston comes up, pushes out spent gas, at TDC, intake valve
opens, piston drops pulling in air, comes up on compression stroke, and a
few degrees BTDC, fires again. One spark per two full revolutions of crank.

Steve