Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,500
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question

I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.

Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.

My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.

Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
RES RES is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question

That's the way I've seen it done by the pros. It might be good to use
conduit all the way for mechanical protection, though, but no big deal.

The solar systems I'm familiar with also have a temp sensor that goes beside
the pipe on the roof. One in the RETURN water line tells the differential
thermostat whether the pool is at the setpoint or below, while the roof
mounted one (air temp) tells it whether the panels would increase the pool
temp or would cool it. Both are necessary. The roof mounted sensor wiring
is merely strapped to one of the pipes going to the roof.

Nonny

wrote in message
...
I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.

Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.

My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.

Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?


  #3   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,500
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question

On Aug 19, 11:57*am, "RES" wrote:
That's the way I've seen it done by the pros. *It might be good to use
conduit all the way for mechanical protection, though, but no big deal.

The solar systems I'm familiar with also have a temp sensor that goes beside
the pipe on the roof. *One in the RETURN water line tells the differential
thermostat whether the pool is at the setpoint or below, while the roof
mounted one (air temp) tells it whether the panels would increase the pool
temp or would cool it. *Both are necessary. *The roof mounted sensor wiring
is merely strapped to one of the pipes going to the roof.

Nonny



Thanks for the input. Good to hear that is how the pros do it. I
considered conduit all the way, but didn't want to for a couple of
reasons. The main one is the other solar temp sensor that you
pointed out. That requires another cable run that will come out of
the single low voltage hole in the solar controller that the two
cables I was talking about also use. If conduit were used, then
you'd have to mount some kind of junction box below the solar
controller to split off the cable to the solar sensor. Or, I guess
you could drill another hole, but since it's a UL listed box as is,
not too keen on making modifications.







wrote in message

...



I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. * There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. *This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. * * It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. * The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.


Here's the issue. *The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. * So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? *This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.


My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. * At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. * On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. * That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. * The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. * Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. * Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.


Sound OK? *Meet code? * Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? *How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? * * Any better ideas?- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.

Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.

My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.

Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?


Why not just run the whole thing on PVC conduit?


or a combination of pvc and Carflex


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,500
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question

On Aug 19, 12:46*pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. * There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. *This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. * * It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. * The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.


Here's the issue. *The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. * So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? *This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.


My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. * At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. * On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. * That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. * The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. * Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. * Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.


Sound OK? *Meet code? * Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? *How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? * * Any better ideas?


Why not just run the whole thing on PVC conduit?


or a combination of pvc and Carflex- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Reason for not using conduit is that the solar controller on the house
only has one hole for low voltage cables. It's located on the bottom
of the controller box and has one of those split rubber seals for
passing the cables through. And as RES pointed out, there is another
low voltage cable that gets run to measure the solar temperature. I
guess the hole with the seal is probably just a 1/2" hole and I could
remove the seal and connect conduit, but not sure. But if I use it
for conduit, then I have to mount a second weatherproof box on the
side of the house below it to split off the other cable run and it
isn't going to look very good. Using the underground sprinkler wire,
I can just wire tie the cable to one of the 2" pool water pipes that
run down the side of the house right next to the controller, through
the ditch, etc. I'll think about it though. If I did mount that
second PVC box, how do I bring the other cable out? Just drill a
small hole in the bottom and silicone seal it?



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question


wrote in message
...
On Aug 19, 12:46 pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.


Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.


My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.


Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?


Why not just run the whole thing on PVC conduit?


or a combination of pvc and Carflex- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Reason for not using conduit is that the solar controller on the house
only has one hole for low voltage cables. It's located on the bottom
of the controller box and has one of those split rubber seals for
passing the cables through. And as RES pointed out, there is another
low voltage cable that gets run to measure the solar temperature. I
guess the hole with the seal is probably just a 1/2" hole and I could
remove the seal and connect conduit, but not sure. But if I use it
for conduit, then I have to mount a second weatherproof box on the
side of the house below it to split off the other cable run and it
isn't going to look very good. Using the underground sprinkler wire,
I can just wire tie the cable to one of the 2" pool water pipes that
run down the side of the house right next to the controller, through
the ditch, etc. I'll think about it though. If I did mount that
second PVC box, how do I bring the other cable out? Just drill a
small hole in the bottom and silicone seal it?


Trader, pardon my dyslexia, as I'm not sure I'm getting a clear picture of
the situation. If the purpose for conduit of some sort, above ground is just
essentially cosmetic, why not just terminate it 1/2" below the single cable
entry point of the controller. That way both cables can slip into the
controller, but not be unsightly. Then continue the pvc underground, as
required protection for the non underground rated cable. Then when you come
up out of the ground by the valve, if necessary transition to carflex, for
flexibility and protection.


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,500
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question

On Aug 19, 3:08*pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 19, 12:46 pm, "RBM" wrote:





wrote in message


.. .


On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.


Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.


My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.


Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?


Why not just run the whole thing on PVC conduit?


or a combination of pvc and Carflex- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Reason for not using conduit is that the solar controller on the house
only has one hole for low voltage cables. *It's located on the bottom
of the controller box and has one of those split rubber seals for
passing the cables through. * And as RES pointed out, there is another
low voltage cable that gets run to measure the solar temperature. * *I
guess the hole with the seal is probably just a 1/2" hole and I could
remove the seal and connect conduit, but not sure. * But if I use it
for conduit, then I have to mount a second weatherproof box on the
side of the house below it to split off the other cable run and it
isn't going to look very good. *Using the underground sprinkler wire,
I can just wire tie the cable to one of the 2" pool water pipes that
run down the side of the house right next to the controller, through
the ditch, etc. * I'll think about it though. *If I did mount that
second PVC box, how do I bring the other cable out? * Just drill a
small hole in the bottom and silicone seal it?

Trader, pardon my dyslexia, as I'm not sure I'm getting a clear picture of
the situation.


It's always hard to visualize this kind of thing, but I think you have
it essentially correct.


If the purpose for conduit of some sort, above ground is just
essentially cosmetic, why not just terminate it 1/2" below the single cable
entry point of the controller. That way both cables can slip into the
controller, but not be unsightly.



Is that OK to do? It would seem that if the conduit ends 1/2" below
the controller instead of being fastened to it, then rain could get
inside and fill the conduit with water. So, I thought it would be
something that would look odd and an electrical inspector would flag.

The purpose for the weatherproof box and 90 deg elbow extending down
into the ground from the pool eqpt pad on the other end were to be a
splice point and provide protection for the low voltage cable where it
exits the earth. Meaning it's at the edge of the pool pad and close
to where you can walk. Someone could just snag it with no
protection. On the house side, under the plan, the low voltage
direct burial cable would leave the controller and be wire tied
against one of the 2" pvc pipes, following it into the ground.
Essentially no different than how sprinkler system wiring is done.
That should be sufficient protection, no?

Also, I checked the low voltage hole on the controller. It's about
1" with a split rubber seal for passing the cables through. So per
your suggestion, a 3/4" conduit fitting might have worked to actually
attach conduit directly to it, BUT inside there is a plastic tunnel
that meets it and is part of the controller assembly. It serves to
keep the low voltage seperate from the line voltage stuff that is
already there. The tunnel takes the low voltage cables past that
section into the top left of the controller where the low voltage
section is, ie the connection points, microprocessor, etc. With the
tunnel there, you can't get to the backside of the hole in the box to
put a nut on. I guess I could take the seal out, shove a conduit
fitting into it and just not put a nut on the inside, but again, that
would seem less Kosher to me than just runnning the direct burial
cable out the hole without a conduit, like it was designed for.

If I did run conduit from 1/2" or so below the box, do you feel that
is a lot better than using underground direct burial sprinkler
wire? I can see it would make it easier to replace the cable
someday, but since it's low voltage, not deep, only goes 3 feet, etc,
didn't seem to make that much improvement to me.


Then continue the pvc underground, as
required protection for the non underground rated cable. Then when you come
up out of the ground by the valve, if necessary transition to carflex, for
flexibility and protection.- Hide quoted text -


On the pool pad, once the cables leave the weathertight box, there is
no need for conduit or flextight as wire ties can fasten them to the
pool eqpt piping and they only go a couple of feet.

As always, thanks for all the help and input.
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,473
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question


wrote in message
...
On Aug 19, 3:08 pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 19, 12:46 pm, "RBM" wrote:





wrote in message


.. .


On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.


Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.


My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.


Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?


Why not just run the whole thing on PVC conduit?


or a combination of pvc and Carflex- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Reason for not using conduit is that the solar controller on the house
only has one hole for low voltage cables. It's located on the bottom
of the controller box and has one of those split rubber seals for
passing the cables through. And as RES pointed out, there is another
low voltage cable that gets run to measure the solar temperature. I
guess the hole with the seal is probably just a 1/2" hole and I could
remove the seal and connect conduit, but not sure. But if I use it
for conduit, then I have to mount a second weatherproof box on the
side of the house below it to split off the other cable run and it
isn't going to look very good. Using the underground sprinkler wire,
I can just wire tie the cable to one of the 2" pool water pipes that
run down the side of the house right next to the controller, through
the ditch, etc. I'll think about it though. If I did mount that
second PVC box, how do I bring the other cable out? Just drill a
small hole in the bottom and silicone seal it?

Trader, pardon my dyslexia, as I'm not sure I'm getting a clear picture of
the situation.


It's always hard to visualize this kind of thing, but I think you have
it essentially correct.


If the purpose for conduit of some sort, above ground is just
essentially cosmetic, why not just terminate it 1/2" below the single
cable
entry point of the controller. That way both cables can slip into the
controller, but not be unsightly.



Is that OK to do? It would seem that if the conduit ends 1/2" below
the controller instead of being fastened to it, then rain could get
inside and fill the conduit with water. So, I thought it would be
something that would look odd and an electrical inspector would flag.

The purpose for the weatherproof box and 90 deg elbow extending down
into the ground from the pool eqpt pad on the other end were to be a
splice point and provide protection for the low voltage cable where it
exits the earth. Meaning it's at the edge of the pool pad and close
to where you can walk. Someone could just snag it with no
protection. On the house side, under the plan, the low voltage
direct burial cable would leave the controller and be wire tied
against one of the 2" pvc pipes, following it into the ground.
Essentially no different than how sprinkler system wiring is done.
That should be sufficient protection, no?

Also, I checked the low voltage hole on the controller. It's about
1" with a split rubber seal for passing the cables through. So per
your suggestion, a 3/4" conduit fitting might have worked to actually
attach conduit directly to it, BUT inside there is a plastic tunnel
that meets it and is part of the controller assembly. It serves to
keep the low voltage seperate from the line voltage stuff that is
already there. The tunnel takes the low voltage cables past that
section into the top left of the controller where the low voltage
section is, ie the connection points, microprocessor, etc. With the
tunnel there, you can't get to the backside of the hole in the box to
put a nut on. I guess I could take the seal out, shove a conduit
fitting into it and just not put a nut on the inside, but again, that
would seem less Kosher to me than just runnning the direct burial
cable out the hole without a conduit, like it was designed for.

If I did run conduit from 1/2" or so below the box, do you feel that
is a lot better than using underground direct burial sprinkler
wire? I can see it would make it easier to replace the cable
someday, but since it's low voltage, not deep, only goes 3 feet, etc,
didn't seem to make that much improvement to me.


Then continue the pvc underground, as
required protection for the non underground rated cable. Then when you
come
up out of the ground by the valve, if necessary transition to carflex, for
flexibility and protection.- Hide quoted text -


On the pool pad, once the cables leave the weathertight box, there is
no need for conduit or flextight as wire ties can fasten them to the
pool eqpt piping and they only go a couple of feet.

As always, thanks for all the help and input.


Clearly, the controller is not meant to have conduit attached, just low
voltage cables popped through the rubber seal. IMO, anything beyond that
such as pvc or carflex, is just an improvement. I wouldn't be concerned
about water getting into the conduit, as any conduit underground gets filled
by condensation anyway. You can always put some silicone around it to make
it look pretty. You could even get a gland type rubber cord fitting, but
that's probably a bit over the top


  #9   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,500
Default Low voltage/underground wiring question

On Aug 19, 6:34*pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 19, 3:08 pm, "RBM" wrote:





wrote in message


...
On Aug 19, 12:46 pm, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message


.. .


On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


I'm helping a friend install a solar pool heater for an inground
pool. There will be a solar pool controller mounted on the side of
the house. This controller runs the pump and valves and basicly turns
the pump on and repositions a valve when pool heating is needed and
it's hot enough to do so. It has a low voltage, 24V section that
gets connected to the motorized valve and also to a temp sensor that
goes into a line bringing water from the pool. The motorized valve
and sensor are on the cement pool equipment pad that is located just a
few feet from the solar controller mounting location on the house.


Here's the issue. The sensor and the valve motor have low voltage
wiring that are outdoor rated, but apparently not direct burial
rated. So, how to get from the solar controller on the house over to
the pool pad? This area also needs to be accessible, so whateve is
done needs to go underground.


My current thinking is to use multiconductor sprinkler cable which is
direct burial to go from the controller over to the edge of the pool
pad. At that point, mount a weatherproof PVC junction box that has
only one 1/2" fitting. On that 1/2" fitting, attach a 90 PVC elbow
that will extend down below grade. That will put the end of the
elbow about 6" underground. The sprinkler cable will come up through
the elbow into the box. Drill two small holes in the other end of
the junction box for the sensor and motor cables to come in through,
make the connections in the box, then seal the sensor and motor cable
entry points with silicone. Complete the rest of the wire runs on
the pool pad, using cable ties, etc.


Sound OK? Meet code? Is leaving the end of the elbow that is buried
open OK? How does one normally transition from direct burial to above
ground? Any better ideas?


Why not just run the whole thing on PVC conduit?


or a combination of pvc and Carflex- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Reason for not using conduit is that the solar controller on the house
only has one hole for low voltage cables. It's located on the bottom
of the controller box and has one of those split rubber seals for
passing the cables through. And as RES pointed out, there is another
low voltage cable that gets run to measure the solar temperature. I
guess the hole with the seal is probably just a 1/2" hole and I could
remove the seal and connect conduit, but not sure. But if I use it
for conduit, then I have to mount a second weatherproof box on the
side of the house below it to split off the other cable run and it
isn't going to look very good. Using the underground sprinkler wire,
I can just wire tie the cable to one of the 2" pool water pipes that
run down the side of the house right next to the controller, through
the ditch, etc. I'll think about it though. If I did mount that
second PVC box, how do I bring the other cable out? Just drill a
small hole in the bottom and silicone seal it?


Trader, pardon my dyslexia, as I'm not sure I'm getting a clear picture of
the situation.


It's always hard to visualize this kind of thing, but I think you have
it essentially correct.

If the purpose for conduit of some sort, above ground is just
essentially cosmetic, why not just terminate it 1/2" below the single
cable
entry point of the controller. That way both cables can slip into the
controller, but not be unsightly.


Is that OK to do? *It would seem that if the conduit ends 1/2" below
the controller instead of being fastened to it, then rain could get
inside and fill the conduit with water. *So, I thought it would be
something that would look odd and an electrical inspector would flag.

The purpose for the weatherproof box and 90 deg elbow extending down
into the ground from the pool eqpt pad on the other end were to be a
splice point and provide protection for the low voltage cable where it
exits the earth. * Meaning it's at the edge of the pool pad and close
to where you can walk. *Someone could just snag it with no
protection. * On the house side, under the plan, the low voltage
direct burial cable would leave the controller and be wire tied
against one of the 2" pvc pipes, following it into the ground.
Essentially no different than how sprinkler system wiring is done.
That should be sufficient protection, no?

Also, I checked the low voltage hole on the controller. * It's about
1" with a split rubber seal for passing the cables through. *So per
your suggestion, a 3/4" conduit fitting might have worked to actually
attach conduit directly to it, BUT inside there is a plastic tunnel
that meets it and is part of the controller assembly. *It serves to
keep the low voltage seperate from the line voltage stuff that is
already there. *The tunnel takes the low voltage cables past that
section into the top left of the controller where the low voltage
section is, ie the connection points, microprocessor, etc. *With the
tunnel there, you can't get to the backside of the hole in the box to
put a nut on. *I guess I could take the seal out, shove a conduit
fitting into it and just not put a nut on the inside, but again, that
would seem less Kosher to me than just runnning the direct burial
cable out the hole without a conduit, like it was designed for.

If I did run conduit from 1/2" or so below the box, do you feel that
is a lot better than using underground direct burial sprinkler
wire? * *I can see it would make it easier to replace the cable
someday, but since it's low voltage, not deep, only goes 3 feet, etc,
didn't seem to make that much improvement to me.

Then continue the pvc underground, as
required protection for the non underground rated cable. Then when you
come
up out of the ground by the valve, if necessary transition to carflex, for
flexibility and protection.- Hide quoted text -


On the pool pad, once the cables leave the weathertight box, there is
no need for conduit or flextight as wire ties can fasten them to the
pool eqpt piping and they only go a couple of feet.

As always, thanks for all the help and input.

Clearly, the controller is not meant to have conduit attached, just low
voltage cables popped through the rubber seal. IMO, anything beyond that
such as pvc or carflex, is just an improvement. I wouldn't be concerned
about water getting into the conduit, as any conduit underground gets filled
by condensation anyway. You can always put some silicone around it to make
it look pretty. You could even get a gland type rubber cord fitting, but
that's probably a bit over the top- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



A related question. What do you use for low voltage splice boxes
indoors? Just a regular plastic outlet box with cover that you'd use
for AC?
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fence over underground wiring [email protected] Home Repair 17 May 18th 09 09:39 AM
Underground wiring Ivan Vegvary Home Repair 7 March 15th 09 06:18 AM
Underground wiring - anything special? [email protected] Home Repair 4 August 18th 07 05:39 AM
Low voltage wiring - NEC question Martin Home Repair 16 September 5th 05 01:30 AM
Underground wiring questions... guest987 Home Repair 52 February 2nd 05 02:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"