Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,321
Default insulating toilet tanks


One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 680
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 17, 11:39*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default insulating toilet tanks

"Bob Villa" wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).

==========

I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,349
Default insulating toilet tanks

On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote:

I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)


I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct?
If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your
season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp
differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? Jes a
thought.

nb
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
EXT EXT is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,661
Default insulating toilet tanks


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Bob Villa" wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).

==========

I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could
be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes.
All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come
closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the
upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


I had the equivalent of that when I was on well water. A 20 gallon tank of
water in the basement that, during summer, sat in a puddle for months.
Unfortunately, it didn't warm the water fast enough as the toilet tank still
sweated until I put central air in the house, then both the toilet and the
pump pressure tank immediately stopped sweating.






  #6   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,236
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 17, 2:14*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote:

I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)


I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct?
If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your
season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp
differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? *Jes a
thought.

nb


That's thinking out of the box - a great idea.
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,733
Default insulating toilet tanks

On 8/17/2010 1:39 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


the trick is to lower the humidity in the house. And as a by-product of
such action, the house will be a lot more comfortable to live in also.
Try running the a/c.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 615
Default insulating toilet tanks

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


The problem is that most people want their cold water cold. To do what you
suggest would require a separate feed for the toilets which would add cost.
Really better to take the toilet supply from the hot side - problem solved.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,482
Default insulating toilet tanks

Jules Richardson wrote the following:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


Like others have mentioned, I too had styrofoam lining the inside of the
tank. It was from a kit that I bought. I think the lining was 3/8" thick.
I was on well water, so the water entering the tank was about 60 degrees F.
I then got central AC so the lining wasn't necessary anymore. I had a
b***h of a time removing the glued on styrofoam lining from the tank.
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default insulating toilet tanks

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could
be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All
it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


The problem is that most people want their cold water cold. To do what you
suggest would require a separate feed for the toilets which would add
cost.



That's a pretty absolute statement, even though it's not true in all cases.
In my home (a ranch), the toilet, tub and sink each have separate supply
pipes coming up from the basement. It would cost nothing extra to insert a
tank in the line for the toilet.




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,236
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 17, 2:14*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote:

I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)


I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct?
If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your
season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp
differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? *Jes a
thought.

nb


everyone's ignoring your great suggestion
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,025
Default insulating toilet tanks


"willshak" wrote

Like others have mentioned, I too had styrofoam lining the inside of the
tank. It was from a kit that I bought. I think the lining was 3/8" thick.
I was on well water, so the water entering the tank was about 60 degrees
F.
I then got central AC so the lining wasn't necessary anymore. I had a
b***h of a time removing the glued on styrofoam lining from the tank.


Why would you remove it? It won't hurt anything left in there.

  #13   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default insulating toilet tanks



"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Bob Villa" wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).

==========

I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could
be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes.
All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come
closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the
upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.

I'd heard one time about using a 10 ft length of 3 inch or 4 inch PVC hung
from the rafters, then reduce each end to the 1/2 or 3/4 inch waterline
size. The idea was to have that in the line leading to the water heater to
let a few gallons of water warm to inside temp before entering the heater,
reducing the amount of time and energy needed to heat it. Same idea would
probably work for the feed to the toilet.

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,852
Default insulating toilet tanks

On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bob wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).

==========

I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.



It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the
efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding
environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old
water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but
I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank
that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank
made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for
a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank
manufacturer:

http://www.westank.com/index.php

TDD
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,567
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 18, 1:12*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:





"Bob *wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
*wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)


Questions:


1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)


2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...


(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)


cheers


Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).


==========


I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.


I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the
efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding
environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old
water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but
I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank
that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank
made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for
a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank
manufacturer:

http://www.westank.com/index.php

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is
forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a
better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the
best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly
designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise.

I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it
either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan.


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,852
Default insulating toilet tanks

On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:





"Bob wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)


Questions:


1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)


2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...


(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)


cheers


Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).


==========


I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.


I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the
efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding
environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old
water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but
I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank
that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank
made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for
a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank
manufacturer:

http://www.westank.com/index.php

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is
forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a
better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the
best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly
designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise.

I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it
either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan.


If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can
be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain
to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such
a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe.

TDD
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default insulating toilet tanks

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:





"Bob wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on
the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water
feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string"
question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water
and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but
also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be
about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules

The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).

==========

I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that
could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes.
All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer
to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs,
it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.

It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the
efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding
environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old
water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but
I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank
that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank
made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for
a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank
manufacturer:

http://www.westank.com/index.php

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is
forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a
better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the
best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly
designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise.

I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it
either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan.


If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can
be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain
to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such
a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe.

TDD



Of course, that copper pipe will sweat just like the toilet tank did, so
allowances should be made to catch the drip. :-)


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,321
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:57:31 -0400, willshak wrote:
Like others have mentioned, I too had styrofoam lining the inside of the
tank. It was from a kit that I bought. I think the lining was 3/8"
thick. I was on well water, so the water entering the tank was about 60
degrees F.


Yeah, same deal here - well water sits at around 55 all year, although
our hottest days are around 90 and it hits -20 in winter (with the
basement then at around 60F).

  #19   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,321
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:14:36 +0000, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson
wrote:

I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water
and air of 35 degrees)


I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct?
If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your season,
might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp differential
in the tank water if you don't flush too often? Jes a thought.


Hmm, possibly... yes, the really hot season is reasonably short here
(northern MN) - so I don't like the idea of a hot water feed just because
it's wasteful for most of the year; but some kind of local heater that I
could easily turn off wouldn't be so bad.
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,567
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 18, 10:12*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in ...





On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


"Bob * *wrote in message
....
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
* *wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on
the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water
feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)


Questions:


1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string"
question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water
and
air of 35 degrees)


2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but
also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...


(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be
about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)


cheers


Jules


The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).


==========


I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.


I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that
could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes.
All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer
to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs,
it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.


It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the
efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding
environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old
water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but
I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank
that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank
made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for
a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank
manufacturer:


http://www.westank.com/index.php


TDD- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is
forced to pass through the tank. *And old hot water heater would do a
better job. * The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the
best. *An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly
designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise.


I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it
either. *The bladder still sits against the porcelan.


If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can
be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain
to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such
a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe.


TDD


Of course, that copper pipe will sweat just like the toilet tank did, so
allowances should be made to catch the drip. :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I thinkl the 4" pvc would be a better and cheaper solution. If the
basement ceiling is unfinished or accesible it would be easy to run a
8' piece of it between joists. Even if you had to double back with a
piece of 3/4" pvc.


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,321
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:03:55 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that
could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3
flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it
to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm
as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest
groundwater.


Yeah, that's not a bad idea, or at least a few coils as someone else
suggested. I've actually got around 60' of 3/4" copper that I'll be
pulling out of the house (feeds to old water-filled radiators that we no
longer need) - but that's only a little over a gallon if I have my
numbers right.

Sticking one of the old radiators on the outside wall of the house and
diverting water via that might work (after all, it's only a problem when
the weather's hot :-) but then I'd have to remember to bypass and drain
the darn thing during winter.

Adding some styrofoam seems like a cheap and quick solution and one that
needs no maintenance - it's just down to a question of how thick to make
it, how long it'll last, and what to attach it with.

cheers

Jules
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,852
Default insulating toilet tanks

On 8/18/2010 9:12 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:





"Bob wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on
the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water
feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string"
question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water
and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but
also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be
about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules

The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone.
They only last a few years and start to sweat again!
Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure
tank).

==========

I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home.

I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that
could be
installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes.
All it
would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer
to
room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs,
it
would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater.

It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the
efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding
environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old
water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but
I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank
that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank
made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for
a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank
manufacturer:

http://www.westank.com/index.php

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is
forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a
better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the
best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly
designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise.

I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it
either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan.


If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can
be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain
to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such
a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe.

TDD



Of course, that copper pipe will sweat just like the toilet tank did, so
allowances should be made to catch the drip. :-)



The reason I mentioned is because I often have to make such a heat
exchanger for restaurant ice machines. A coil of 3/8" is attached
to the ceiling of the walk-in cooler to chill the water supplying
the ice machine to increase its efficiency. Quite often the ice
machine is in a hot kitchen and the cold water lines feeding the
ice machine picks up this heat and it can't produce much ice.

TDD

  #23   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default insulating toilet tanks

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:03:55 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that
could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3
flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it
to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm
as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest
groundwater.


Yeah, that's not a bad idea, or at least a few coils as someone else
suggested. I've actually got around 60' of 3/4" copper that I'll be
pulling out of the house (feeds to old water-filled radiators that we no
longer need) - but that's only a little over a gallon if I have my
numbers right.

Sticking one of the old radiators on the outside wall of the house and
diverting water via that might work (after all, it's only a problem when
the weather's hot :-) but then I'd have to remember to bypass and drain
the darn thing during winter.

Adding some styrofoam seems like a cheap and quick solution and one that
needs no maintenance - it's just down to a question of how thick to make
it, how long it'll last, and what to attach it with.

cheers

Jules



Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough
water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's
already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would
be no way to compensate for the lost water volume.


  #24   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,321
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just
enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water
level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals),
there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume.


Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I
was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a
test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-)

  #25   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,595
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just
enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water
level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals),
there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume.


Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I
was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a
test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-)


Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- Mine started breaking
down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper.
After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the
rest of it out.

Jim


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default insulating toilet tanks

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just
enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water
level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals),
there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume.


Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I
was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a
test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-)


Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- Mine started breaking
down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper.
After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the
rest of it out.

Jim



Duh. That's why there's scuba gear. Don't you know anything?

:-)


  #27   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,567
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 18, 11:59*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just
enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water
level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals),
there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume.


Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I
was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a
test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-)


Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- * Mine started breaking
down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper.
After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the
rest of it out.

Jim


And as anyone with a hot tub and a cover knows, styrofoam eventually
becomes water logged.
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
RES RES is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default insulating toilet tanks



"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:





"Bob wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of
year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on
the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water
feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace
it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)


Since it is "one of our." rather than "our only," then why not just use a
different toilet? The water's temperature in the tank will soon exceed the
dew point of the bathroom and the condensation will stop. If the toilet is
the only one that's convenient, then the tempering tank solution would
probably be advisable. If the toilet is essential to your bathroom décor,
consider removing the old tank, scrubbing it out with an acid solution to
get it perfectly clean, then spraying on an insulating, closed cell, foam on
the inside. This should eliminate gaps. It sounds like you have an older
toilet, and the reduction in flushing water volume would probably not affect
the action. However, replacing the innards with a pressurized flushing
system would eliminate the issue.

Nonny


  #29   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,236
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Aug 18, 1:48*pm, "RES" wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message

...





"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


"Bob * *wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson
* *wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of
year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on
the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water
feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace
it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)


Since it is "one of our." rather than "our only," then why not just use a
different toilet? *The water's temperature in the tank will soon exceed the
dew point of the bathroom and the condensation will stop. *If the toilet is
the only one that's convenient, then the tempering tank solution would
probably be advisable. If the toilet is essential to your bathroom décor,
consider removing the old tank, scrubbing it out with an acid solution to
get it perfectly clean, then spraying on an insulating, closed cell, foam on
the inside. *This should eliminate gaps. *It sounds like you have an older
toilet, and the reduction in flushing water volume would probably not affect
the action. *However, replacing the innards with a pressurized flushing
system would eliminate the issue.

Nonny- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yeah, the trick is to use something with closed cells. There is a
pinkish packing material that is somewhat denser than stryrofoam that
seems to be closed cell that might work ok, but I don't now what it is
called. I think anything over 1/4 inch would work, the trick is to
keep water from circulating behind the material. The pressurized
systems that I have seen/heard are too noisy to have to listen to in
the middle of the night when someone flushes. I vaguely remember
seeing toilet tank insulation kits somewhere. Have you googled on
that topic???
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 288
Default insulating toilet tanks

First, make sure your flapoper is not leaking.

On Aug 17, 2:39*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules




  #31   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,733
Default insulating toilet tanks

On 8/18/2010 11:54 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 11:59 am, Jim wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just
enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water
level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals),
there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume.


Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I
was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a
test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-)


Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- Mine started breaking
down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper.
After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the
rest of it out.

Jim


And as anyone with a hot tub and a cover knows, styrofoam eventually
becomes water logged.


MAN! ain't that the truth? Our hot tub cover got so heavy we could
barely open it! I 'bout threw the new one off onto the ground the first
few times i grabbed it.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 289
Default insulating toilet tanks

Make sure it isn't running constantly and running up your water bill.
When I had a toilet sweating problem it was a faulty ballcock letting
a constant stream of cool water into the tank.
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,589
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:46:08 -0700 (PDT), beecrofter
wrote:

Make sure it isn't running constantly and running up your water bill.
When I had a toilet sweating problem it was a faulty ballcock letting
a constant stream of cool water into the tank.


They used to make tank covers to keep toilets from sweating. I haven't seen
one for years, though. I have a broken tank lid (repaired but unsightly) and
really don't want to replace the entire commode. :-(
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default insulating toilet tanks

On Tuesday, 17 August 2010 14:39:18 UTC-4, Jules Richardson wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year -
the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the
floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the
inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed,
and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it
with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation)

Questions:

1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough?
(that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question;
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and
air of 35 degrees)

2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also
something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it...

(alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about
$30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...)

cheers

Jules


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LP Tanks Boden Home Repair 12 November 25th 08 01:06 PM
Gas Tanks... [email protected] Home Repair 12 June 21st 06 05:01 PM
New Condensate Pump, add one of those ammonia hocky puck things you use in toilet tanks? [email protected] Home Repair 9 December 11th 05 07:08 PM
toilet tanks sold separately? ThomasPrinzie Home Repair 3 February 13th 05 02:53 AM
insulating the toilet tank slushfund Home Repair 20 October 11th 04 09:54 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"