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#1
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insulating toilet tanks
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules |
#2
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 17, 11:39*am, Jules Richardson
wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). |
#3
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insulating toilet tanks
"Bob Villa" wrote in message
... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. |
#4
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insulating toilet tanks
On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote:
I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct? If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? Jes a thought. nb |
#5
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insulating toilet tanks
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Bob Villa" wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. I had the equivalent of that when I was on well water. A 20 gallon tank of water in the basement that, during summer, sat in a puddle for months. Unfortunately, it didn't warm the water fast enough as the toilet tank still sweated until I put central air in the house, then both the toilet and the pump pressure tank immediately stopped sweating. |
#6
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 17, 2:14*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote: I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct? If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? *Jes a thought. nb That's thinking out of the box - a great idea. |
#7
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insulating toilet tanks
On 8/17/2010 1:39 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules the trick is to lower the humidity in the house. And as a by-product of such action, the house will be a lot more comfortable to live in also. Try running the a/c. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#8
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insulating toilet tanks
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. The problem is that most people want their cold water cold. To do what you suggest would require a separate feed for the toilets which would add cost. Really better to take the toilet supply from the hot side - problem solved. |
#9
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insulating toilet tanks
Jules Richardson wrote the following:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules Like others have mentioned, I too had styrofoam lining the inside of the tank. It was from a kit that I bought. I think the lining was 3/8" thick. I was on well water, so the water entering the tank was about 60 degrees F. I then got central AC so the lining wasn't necessary anymore. I had a b***h of a time removing the glued on styrofoam lining from the tank. |
#10
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insulating toilet tanks
"Robert Neville" wrote in message
... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. The problem is that most people want their cold water cold. To do what you suggest would require a separate feed for the toilets which would add cost. That's a pretty absolute statement, even though it's not true in all cases. In my home (a ranch), the toilet, tub and sink each have separate supply pipes coming up from the basement. It would cost nothing extra to insert a tank in the line for the toilet. |
#11
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 17, 2:14*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote: I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct? If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? *Jes a thought. nb everyone's ignoring your great suggestion |
#12
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insulating toilet tanks
"willshak" wrote Like others have mentioned, I too had styrofoam lining the inside of the tank. It was from a kit that I bought. I think the lining was 3/8" thick. I was on well water, so the water entering the tank was about 60 degrees F. I then got central AC so the lining wasn't necessary anymore. I had a b***h of a time removing the glued on styrofoam lining from the tank. Why would you remove it? It won't hurt anything left in there. |
#13
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insulating toilet tanks
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Bob Villa" wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. I'd heard one time about using a 10 ft length of 3 inch or 4 inch PVC hung from the rafters, then reduce each end to the 1/2 or 3/4 inch waterline size. The idea was to have that in the line leading to the water heater to let a few gallons of water warm to inside temp before entering the heater, reducing the amount of time and energy needed to heat it. Same idea would probably work for the feed to the toilet. |
#14
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insulating toilet tanks
On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bob wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank manufacturer: http://www.westank.com/index.php TDD |
#15
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 18, 1:12*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob *wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson *wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank manufacturer: http://www.westank.com/index.php TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise. I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan. |
#16
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insulating toilet tanks
On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank manufacturer: http://www.westank.com/index.php TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise. I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan. If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe. TDD |
#17
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insulating toilet tanks
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
... On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote: On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank manufacturer: http://www.westank.com/index.php TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise. I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan. If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe. TDD Of course, that copper pipe will sweat just like the toilet tank did, so allowances should be made to catch the drip. :-) |
#18
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insulating toilet tanks
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:57:31 -0400, willshak wrote:
Like others have mentioned, I too had styrofoam lining the inside of the tank. It was from a kit that I bought. I think the lining was 3/8" thick. I was on well water, so the water entering the tank was about 60 degrees F. Yeah, same deal here - well water sits at around 55 all year, although our hottest days are around 90 and it hits -20 in winter (with the basement then at around 60F). |
#19
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insulating toilet tanks
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:14:36 +0000, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-17, Jules Richardson wrote: I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) I also have to assume you live in an area with high humidity, correct? If this sweating/dripping problem doesn't last too long in your season, might a small tropical acquarium heater decrease the temp differential in the tank water if you don't flush too often? Jes a thought. Hmm, possibly... yes, the really hot season is reasonably short here (northern MN) - so I don't like the idea of a hot water feed just because it's wasteful for most of the year; but some kind of local heater that I could easily turn off wouldn't be so bad. |
#20
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 18, 10:12*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "The Daring Dufas" wrote in ... On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote: On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob * *wrote in message .... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson * *wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank manufacturer: http://www.westank.com/index.php TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is forced to pass through the tank. *And old hot water heater would do a better job. * The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the best. *An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise. I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it either. *The bladder still sits against the porcelan. If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe. TDD Of course, that copper pipe will sweat just like the toilet tank did, so allowances should be made to catch the drip. :-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I thinkl the 4" pvc would be a better and cheaper solution. If the basement ceiling is unfinished or accesible it would be easy to run a 8' piece of it between joists. Even if you had to double back with a piece of 3/4" pvc. |
#21
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insulating toilet tanks
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:03:55 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. Yeah, that's not a bad idea, or at least a few coils as someone else suggested. I've actually got around 60' of 3/4" copper that I'll be pulling out of the house (feeds to old water-filled radiators that we no longer need) - but that's only a little over a gallon if I have my numbers right. Sticking one of the old radiators on the outside wall of the house and diverting water via that might work (after all, it's only a problem when the weather's hot :-) but then I'd have to remember to bypass and drain the darn thing during winter. Adding some styrofoam seems like a cheap and quick solution and one that needs no maintenance - it's just down to a question of how thick to make it, how long it'll last, and what to attach it with. cheers Jules |
#22
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insulating toilet tanks
On 8/18/2010 9:12 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message ... On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote: On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules The toilet I have (Mansfield) has styrofoam attached with silicone. They only last a few years and start to sweat again! Next, I'm going with the Sloan system (with the internal pressure tank). ========== I had the same problem with an insulated tank in my prior home. I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. It's called a "tempering tank" which is usually used to help the efficiency of a water heater by absorbing heat from the surrounding environment to warm the water supplying the heater. I've seen old water heaters with the insulation removed used for the purpose but I'm sure a plumbing supply house could supply you with a new tank that is uninsulated. You might be able to get hold of a used tank made for well pumps and use it without the bladder pressurized for a tempering tank to supply the toilets. Here's a link to a tank manufacturer: http://www.westank.com/index.php TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Regular well tanks don't do anything to insure that the water is forced to pass through the tank. And old hot water heater would do a better job. The idea about a section of 3 or 4" pvc is probably the best. An aquarium heater is a bad idea as they are not properly designed to be in contact with your water supply safety wise. I would not expect the pressurized bladder toilets to solve it either. The bladder still sits against the porcelan. If you can find a 50' coil of 3/4" copper pipe at a good price, it can be attached to a basement ceiling or wall, perhaps near a floor drain to handle any condensation. The cold supply water flowing through such a coil should be up to room temperature after a trip through the pipe. TDD Of course, that copper pipe will sweat just like the toilet tank did, so allowances should be made to catch the drip. :-) The reason I mentioned is because I often have to make such a heat exchanger for restaurant ice machines. A coil of 3/8" is attached to the ceiling of the walk-in cooler to chill the water supplying the ice machine to increase its efficiency. Quite often the ice machine is in a hot kitchen and the cold water lines feeding the ice machine picks up this heat and it can't produce much ice. TDD |
#23
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insulating toilet tanks
"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
... On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:03:55 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: I've always wondered if someone made some sort of holding tank that could be installed in the basement. Big enough to hold water for 2-3 flushes. All it would need to do is "park" some water long enough for it to come closer to room temperature. Even if the basement's not as warm as the upstairs, it would usually still be warmer than the coldest groundwater. Yeah, that's not a bad idea, or at least a few coils as someone else suggested. I've actually got around 60' of 3/4" copper that I'll be pulling out of the house (feeds to old water-filled radiators that we no longer need) - but that's only a little over a gallon if I have my numbers right. Sticking one of the old radiators on the outside wall of the house and diverting water via that might work (after all, it's only a problem when the weather's hot :-) but then I'd have to remember to bypass and drain the darn thing during winter. Adding some styrofoam seems like a cheap and quick solution and one that needs no maintenance - it's just down to a question of how thick to make it, how long it'll last, and what to attach it with. cheers Jules Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume. |
#24
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insulating toilet tanks
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume. Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-) |
#25
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insulating toilet tanks
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume. Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-) Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- Mine started breaking down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper. After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the rest of it out. Jim |
#26
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insulating toilet tanks
"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
... On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume. Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-) Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- Mine started breaking down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper. After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the rest of it out. Jim Duh. That's why there's scuba gear. Don't you know anything? :-) |
#27
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 18, 11:59*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume. Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-) Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- * Mine started breaking down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper. After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the rest of it out. Jim And as anyone with a hot tub and a cover knows, styrofoam eventually becomes water logged. |
#28
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insulating toilet tanks
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote: On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Since it is "one of our." rather than "our only," then why not just use a different toilet? The water's temperature in the tank will soon exceed the dew point of the bathroom and the condensation will stop. If the toilet is the only one that's convenient, then the tempering tank solution would probably be advisable. If the toilet is essential to your bathroom décor, consider removing the old tank, scrubbing it out with an acid solution to get it perfectly clean, then spraying on an insulating, closed cell, foam on the inside. This should eliminate gaps. It sounds like you have an older toilet, and the reduction in flushing water volume would probably not affect the action. However, replacing the innards with a pressurized flushing system would eliminate the issue. Nonny |
#29
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insulating toilet tanks
On Aug 18, 1:48*pm, "RES" wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... On 8/18/2010 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote: On Aug 18, 1:12 am, The Daring wrote: On 8/17/2010 2:03 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Bob * *wrote in message ... On Aug 17, 11:39 am, Jules Richardson * *wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Since it is "one of our." rather than "our only," then why not just use a different toilet? *The water's temperature in the tank will soon exceed the dew point of the bathroom and the condensation will stop. *If the toilet is the only one that's convenient, then the tempering tank solution would probably be advisable. If the toilet is essential to your bathroom décor, consider removing the old tank, scrubbing it out with an acid solution to get it perfectly clean, then spraying on an insulating, closed cell, foam on the inside. *This should eliminate gaps. *It sounds like you have an older toilet, and the reduction in flushing water volume would probably not affect the action. *However, replacing the innards with a pressurized flushing system would eliminate the issue. Nonny- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yeah, the trick is to use something with closed cells. There is a pinkish packing material that is somewhat denser than stryrofoam that seems to be closed cell that might work ok, but I don't now what it is called. I think anything over 1/4 inch would work, the trick is to keep water from circulating behind the material. The pressurized systems that I have seen/heard are too noisy to have to listen to in the middle of the night when someone flushes. I vaguely remember seeing toilet tank insulation kits somewhere. Have you googled on that topic??? |
#30
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insulating toilet tanks
First, make sure your flapoper is not leaking.
On Aug 17, 2:39*pm, Jules Richardson wrote: One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules |
#31
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insulating toilet tanks
On 8/18/2010 11:54 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 18, 11:59 am, Jim wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:24:05 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:11:26 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Another potential problem with styrofoam is that is can displace just enough water to keep the toilet from functioning correctly. If the water level's already as high as it can be (based on the toilet's internals), there would be no way to compensate for the lost water volume. Yes, this one's OK I believe - the level's quite a way below the inlet. I was planning on putting a housebrick or something in the tank first as a test just to occupy space and see if everything still worked :-) Just to add to the negatives on Styrofoam-- Mine started breaking down after a few year and beads kept getting caught in the flapper. After about the 10th time that happened it was a major PITA to get the rest of it out. Jim And as anyone with a hot tub and a cover knows, styrofoam eventually becomes water logged. MAN! ain't that the truth? Our hot tub cover got so heavy we could barely open it! I 'bout threw the new one off onto the ground the first few times i grabbed it. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#32
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insulating toilet tanks
Make sure it isn't running constantly and running up your water bill.
When I had a toilet sweating problem it was a faulty ballcock letting a constant stream of cool water into the tank. |
#33
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insulating toilet tanks
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:46:08 -0700 (PDT), beecrofter
wrote: Make sure it isn't running constantly and running up your water bill. When I had a toilet sweating problem it was a faulty ballcock letting a constant stream of cool water into the tank. They used to make tank covers to keep toilets from sweating. I haven't seen one for years, though. I have a broken tank lid (repaired but unsightly) and really don't want to replace the entire commode. :-( |
#34
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insulating toilet tanks
On Tuesday, 17 August 2010 14:39:18 UTC-4, Jules Richardson wrote:
One of our bathroom toilet tanks 'sweats' badly at this time of year - the outside of the tank is covered in condensation and it puddles on the floor beneath. I was thinking of retro-fitting some insulation to the inside of the tank (I don't want to mess with adding a warm-water feed, and the tank's a nice old decorative one, so I'd rather not replace it with a modern one that has a double wall or built-in insulation) Questions: 1) how thick does the insulation need to be? Is 1/4" probably enough? (that's perhaps something of a "how long is a piece of string" question; I think I'm dealing with a max temperature differential between water and air of 35 degrees) 2) What adhesive to use? Needs to be water-resistant, obviously, but also something that's suitable for styrofoam and won't destroy it... (alternately, I could just buy a kit, I suppose - they seem to be about $30 online. Not sure if HD etc. carry them...) cheers Jules |
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