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Garage door opener problem
Single width metal door, ancient Genie opener. Door goes about halfway down,
then up again. Disconnected the door from the chain drive and found that it was imbalanced - the door barely stays open without something propped under it. Could this be one reason the opener's having problems? Too much weight? |
Garage door opener problem
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:49:47 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: Single width metal door, ancient Genie opener. Door goes about halfway down, then up again. Disconnected the door from the chain drive and found that it was imbalanced - the door barely stays open without something propped under it. Could this be one reason the opener's having problems? Too much weight? Yes. Have the springs adjusted for balance. |
Garage door opener problem
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Garage door opener problem
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
.... I don't notice anything binding. The door falls very easily. The tracks are clean & well lubricated. Something is, somewhere. Watch how it closes/where it reverses carefully. It's possible the springs aren't evenly tensioned. Also, binding and door action is different when pushed from the location of the actuator rather than pulling from bottom or simply letting fall since the force is applied in different location and direction. Check from that perspective. Almost certainly it's got a catch-point that is causing the reversal on the force limit switch. -- |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 8:09�am, dpb wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ... I don't notice anything binding. The door falls very easily. The tracks are clean & well lubricated. Something is, somewhere. �Watch how it closes/where it reverses carefully. �It's possible the springs aren't evenly tensioned. �Also, binding and door action is different when pushed from the location of the actuator rather than pulling from bottom or simply letting fall since the force is applied in different location and direction. �Check from that perspective. Almost certainly it's got a catch-point that is causing the reversal on the force limit switch. -- whens the last time it was lubricated? |
Garage door opener problem
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Single width metal door, ancient Genie opener. Door goes about halfway down, then up again. Disconnected the door from the chain drive and found that it was imbalanced - the door barely stays open without something propped under it. Could this be one reason the opener's having problems? Too much weight? You have already received a lot of good advice, but I had a problem with such a door opener that took me years to discover. It too was a Genie chain drive, but WAS balanced at midpoint unlike yours. So this story may not be of much help: In my case although the door was balanced at midpoint, occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! The solution to the problem was that the rollers that move in the side tracks for the door had some lateral slack. Occasionally this slack allowed the door to move sideways enough to encounter an obstacle (I believe it was the cable attached to the bottom of the door) and that cause the reversing of the door. The problem was it happened so rarely that when troubleshooting the problem it was not apparent. My solution was to place a spacer on one of the roller shafts so that the lateral movement of the door was reduced. This prevented the door from coming close enough to meet the cable and obstruct the free flow of the door. |
Garage door opener problem
wrote in message
... On Jun 10, 8:09?am, dpb wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ... I don't notice anything binding. The door falls very easily. The tracks are clean & well lubricated. Something is, somewhere. ?Watch how it closes/where it reverses carefully. ?It's possible the springs aren't evenly tensioned. ?Also, binding and door action is different when pushed from the location of the actuator rather than pulling from bottom or simply letting fall since the force is applied in different location and direction. ?Check from that perspective. Almost certainly it's got a catch-point that is causing the reversal on the force limit switch. -- whens the last time it was lubricated? ================= Tracks cleaned & lubricated a month ago. All rollers are tight & straight. (I've seen the opposite, so I know what to look for.) But the door is absolutely out of balance (loose springs). |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 8:27*am, Ken wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Single width metal door, ancient Genie opener. Door goes about halfway down, then up again. Disconnected the door from the chain drive and found that it was imbalanced - the door barely stays open without something propped under it. Could this be one reason the opener's having problems? Too much weight? * * * * You have already received a lot of good advice, but I had a problem with such a door opener that took me years to discover. *It too was a Genie chain drive, but WAS balanced at midpoint unlike yours. *So this story may not be of much help: * * * * In my case although the door was balanced at midpoint, occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. *After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. *It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! * * * * The solution to the problem was that the rollers that move in the side tracks for the door had some lateral slack. *Occasionally this slack allowed the door to move sideways enough to encounter an obstacle (I believe it was the cable attached to the bottom of the door) and that cause the reversing of the door. *The problem was it happened so rarely that when troubleshooting the problem it was not apparent. *My solution was to place a spacer on one of the roller shafts so that the lateral movement of the door was reduced. *This prevented the door from coming close enough to meet the cable and obstruct the free flow of the door. Adjust the springs. Open and close the door by hand with it disconnected from the drive. But hold it at the center where the drive connects to do this. That's where the drive pushes and pulls so if it is binding you should feel it. Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. There may be some adjustors on the unit. |
Garage door opener problem
jamesgangnc wrote:
.... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! .... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... -- |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 9:10*am, dpb wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. *There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? *At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... -- If you read the thread you would know that the op has already stated that his does not have the optical sensors. |
Garage door opener problem
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 10, 9:10 am, dpb wrote: .... If you read the thread you would know that the op has already stated that his does not have the optical sensors. Well, that's the proverbial big if... -- |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 9:10*am, dpb wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. *There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? *At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. I agree. Every modern one I have seen has both force limit sensors and the optical sensors. I believe both are required. However, given that it reverses on the way down, it may not be the force sensor, because you would think with not enough spring tension it would fail to open instead of close. But I would fix what you know for sure is wrong first. And that is that the door is not properly balanced and the tension needs to be adjusted. It may turn out that something else is wrong, like it binds at some point, etc, but with any door opener, the door needs to be reasonably balanced as a starting point. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... -- |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 9:38*am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 9:10*am, dpb wrote: jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. *There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? *At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. I agree. *Every modern one I have seen has both force limit sensors and the optical sensors. * I believe both are required. * However, given that it reverses on the way down, it may not be the force sensor, because you would think with not enough spring tension it would fail to open instead of close. *But I would fix what you know for sure is wrong first. * And that is that the door is not properly balanced and the tension needs to be adjusted. *It may turn out that something else is wrong, like it binds at some point, etc, but with any door opener, the door needs to be reasonably balanced as a starting point. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that's pretty much the advice I gave. Make sure the door operates well manually. Then test and check the adjustments on the opener. What an opener with the optical sensors has or doesn't have isn't really germane to the problem he's having. He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. |
Garage door opener problem
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
... On Jun 10, 9:38 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 9:10 am, dpb wrote: jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. I agree. Every modern one I have seen has both force limit sensors and the optical sensors. I believe both are required. However, given that it reverses on the way down, it may not be the force sensor, because you would think with not enough spring tension it would fail to open instead of close. But I would fix what you know for sure is wrong first. And that is that the door is not properly balanced and the tension needs to be adjusted. It may turn out that something else is wrong, like it binds at some point, etc, but with any door opener, the door needs to be reasonably balanced as a starting point. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that's pretty much the advice I gave. Make sure the door operates well manually. Then test and check the adjustments on the opener. What an opener with the optical sensors has or doesn't have isn't really germane to the problem he's having. He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. =========== This will be slightly more complicating (or annoying, actually) because the "professional" who replaced the springs last time tied the cables in a knot instead of installing hooks to attach to the metal strip with holes in it. Friggin' people....pass the ammo. |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 9:52*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ... On Jun 10, 9:38 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 9:10 am, dpb wrote: jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. I agree. Every modern one I have seen has both force limit sensors and the optical sensors. I believe both are required. However, given that it reverses on the way down, it may not be the force sensor, because you would think with not enough spring tension it would fail to open instead of close. But I would fix what you know for sure is wrong first. And that is that the door is not properly balanced and the tension needs to be adjusted. It may turn out that something else is wrong, like it binds at some point, etc, but with any door opener, the door needs to be reasonably balanced as a starting point. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that's pretty much the advice I gave. *Make sure the door operates well manually. *Then test and check the adjustments on the opener. *What an opener with the optical sensors has or doesn't have isn't really germane to the problem he's having. *He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. =========== This will be slightly more complicating (or annoying, actually) because the "professional" who replaced the springs last time tied the cables in a knot instead of installing hooks to attach to the metal strip with holes in it.. Friggin' people....pass the ammo.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Been there, seen that :-) Hope you can manage it without getting new cable. |
Garage door opener problem
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Single width metal door, ancient Genie opener. Door goes about halfway down, then up again. Disconnected the door from the chain drive and found that it was imbalanced - the door barely stays open without something propped under it. Could this be one reason the opener's having problems? Too much weight? If the opener runs normally when the door is disconnected from the trolley, then door imbalance is the problem. Otherwise I'd check the limit switches and the downward force adjustment. Genie limit switches are adjusted by loosening their screws and moving them, and those screws can work loose. I believe the force adjustment doesn't actually measure force but motor RPM instead, and the RPM sensor may be a paddle wheel or chopper that interrupts an optical emitter and sensor (can get dusty -- blow out with air or aerosol alcohol). Some Genies also use a magnetic sensor to measure RPM, which should be trouble-free unless the magnet cracks (vibration) or its wiring breaks (also vibration). The force sensor can be affected by imbalance and binding, and if the trolley is plastic and slides along a tube, as is the case with Stanley openers, it probably should not be lubricated. OTOH when grease is required, try NGLI #1 because in cold areas the more common but thicker NGLI #2 can become too stiff. The vibration from the motor can loosen screws and crack solder joints, especially those around heavier parts and cable connectors, and those cracks are often microscopic (IOW resolder everything). Openers are supposed to automatically stop in about 20 seconds if they don't detect door closing or opening by then, and in old openers this was handled by a simple resistor-capacitor timing circuit. Maybe a rotting capacitor in this circuit might make the opener stop prematurely, but I'd think it's more likely to lengthen the allowed run time. An opener old enough to not have a light beam may have electronics that can be repaired because all the parts are 100% generic. |
Garage door opener problem
jamesgangnc wrote:
.... isn't really germane to the problem he's having. He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. Well, the force limit switch _IS_ obviously germane to the problem or it wouldn't be reversing now, would it???? The other info in the posting may not be of direct benefit to OP; so be it, it's usenet and it cost him exactly what? _AND_, it might just happen to help somebody else either lurking at the moment or has a problem in the future that it rings a bell for as having seen it or in a future search on similar problems by somebody else. Hardly worth making an issue over it would seem... -- |
Garage door opener problem
"dpb" wrote in message
... jamesgangnc wrote: ... isn't really germane to the problem he's having. He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. Well, the force limit switch _IS_ obviously germane to the problem or it wouldn't be reversing now, would it???? The other info in the posting may not be of direct benefit to OP; so be it, it's usenet and it cost him exactly what? _AND_, it might just happen to help somebody else either lurking at the moment or has a problem in the future that it rings a bell for as having seen it or in a future search on similar problems by somebody else. Hardly worth making an issue over it would seem... The point is that it's silly to respond to a question by mentioning things which do not exist in the OP's (my) situation, like optical sensors. It's pretty much a confession that you never read the original question. |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 9:52*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ... On Jun 10, 9:38 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 9:10 am, dpb wrote: jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. I agree. Every modern one I have seen has both force limit sensors and the optical sensors. I believe both are required. However, given that it reverses on the way down, it may not be the force sensor, because you would think with not enough spring tension it would fail to open instead of close. But I would fix what you know for sure is wrong first. And that is that the door is not properly balanced and the tension needs to be adjusted. It may turn out that something else is wrong, like it binds at some point, etc, but with any door opener, the door needs to be reasonably balanced as a starting point. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that's pretty much the advice I gave. *Make sure the door operates well manually. *Then test and check the adjustments on the opener. *What an opener with the optical sensors has or doesn't have isn't really germane to the problem he's having. *He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. =========== This will be slightly more complicating (or annoying, actually) because the "professional" who replaced the springs last time tied the cables in a knot instead of installing hooks to attach to the metal strip with holes in it.. Friggin' people....pass the ammo.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HD and similar have replacement cable. It may be easier to just cut the old ones and replace. Also, make sure if you have extension springs that they have safety cables on them as well. |
Garage door opener problem
wrote in message
... On Jun 10, 9:52 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ... On Jun 10, 9:38 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 9:10 am, dpb wrote: jamesgangnc wrote: ... ... occasionally I found the door reversing during the close operation. After each failure, I checked for obstructions and never could find one, much less duplicate the reversing problem. It just happened perhaps one time in twenty!! ... Older opens that did not have the optical obstruction sensors on the floor often had a load sensor in the unit. There may be some adjustors on the unit. AFAIK still do? At least the one I just installed does; can't imagine would design without it. I agree. Every modern one I have seen has both force limit sensors and the optical sensors. I believe both are required. However, given that it reverses on the way down, it may not be the force sensor, because you would think with not enough spring tension it would fail to open instead of close. But I would fix what you know for sure is wrong first. And that is that the door is not properly balanced and the tension needs to be adjusted. It may turn out that something else is wrong, like it binds at some point, etc, but with any door opener, the door needs to be reasonably balanced as a starting point. Anyway, the intermittent and the mention of the IR sensor reminded me -- had a loose piece of material hanging that occasionally would interrupt the beam once't upon a time--took a while to realize what that problem actually was also because it was intermittent and wouldn't perform on demand, either... --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that's pretty much the advice I gave. Make sure the door operates well manually. Then test and check the adjustments on the opener. What an opener with the optical sensors has or doesn't have isn't really germane to the problem he's having. He doesn't have optical sensors, he made that clear in his second post. =========== This will be slightly more complicating (or annoying, actually) because the "professional" who replaced the springs last time tied the cables in a knot instead of installing hooks to attach to the metal strip with holes in it. Friggin' people....pass the ammo.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HD and similar have replacement cable. It may be easier to just cut the old ones and replace. Also, make sure if you have extension springs that they have safety cables on them as well. =========== I'm going to walk into the store whose technician did the knot-tying thing and ask "Do you recommend tying the cable, or using hook assembly?" This is a trap - they've got the hook kits hanging right on their parts wall. With any luck, he'll say "Oh no - never tie the cables. That's sloppy." At that point, I'll hand him the receipt showing that his technician did the work. Who knows? This could be cheap. :-) If not, than plan B goes into effect - do it myself. |
Garage door opener problem
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
.... pretty much a confession that you never read the original question. That's true I didn't (and still haven't) and I didn't respond at the original posting level, either, did I? I was prompted by a side remark somebody else made that jogged another thought...if it doesn't pertain, well, so be it, I didn't know it at the time. That there wasn't an optical sensor on the opener in question wasn't in the subthread to which I responsed; the mention was not referring specifically to the specific and it can be inferred as to what "ancient" means by many different folks having many different interpretations. Again, hardly seems worth fussin' about; if you don't like/need a suggestion, go on to the next. It is, after all, usenet... -- |
Garage door opener problem
On Jun 10, 2:56*pm, dpb wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ... pretty much a confession that you never read the original question. That's true I didn't (and still haven't) and I didn't respond at the original posting level, either, did I? *I was prompted by a side remark somebody else made that jogged another thought...if it doesn't pertain, well, so be it, I didn't know it at the time. *That there wasn't an optical sensor on the opener in question wasn't in the subthread to which I responsed; the mention was not referring specifically to the specific and it can be inferred as to what "ancient" means by many different folks having many different interpretations. Again, hardly seems worth fussin' about; if you don't like/need a suggestion, go on to the next. *It is, after all, usenet... -- I agree with Joe. People just clutter up posts with irrelevant info. It doesn't help the op. It'd be different if the post starts out as a discussion but it didn't. It was a specific problem looking for help. In Joe's case it doesn't matter much cause Joe has other background info and knows a lot about the topic already. But some people posting here are novices at the home repair stuff. It confuses them. |
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