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#41
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 12, 1:49*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/12/2010 4:42 AM ransley spake thus: On Apr 11, 11:42 am, Roy wrote: What's with the 8000 hr. b.s.? I've had a number of them last only about 500 hours and of course I had thrown the packaging away. Now, I write the installation date on the sleeve and file it away. Of course if you don't have the freakin receipt, you're up the creek as well. Even some from the same lot have different life-times. The ones that lasted the longest were in outside enclosed fixtures and were turned on for eight to twelve hour durations all year long. Buy HD stuff, you are in their computer and just the other day I returned some without a reciept, HD has a 9 yr warranty and I often buy the CFls so im in their computer, no mail in required. So do they just scan the bulb? Is the bulb's barcode in their database? What if you buy a 4-pack and just return 1 blub? -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) I keep a package packing of the last group purchased, since I use over 100 at different locations I save the burnt out ones and wait till I have a full pack, but knowing HD they would give you just one, my failure rate is so minimal over 4 years and the prices now so low its really a non issue for me now. about .45C a bulb isnt much for what I save in electricity it is great that they do work well. |
#42
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 12, 2:57*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:47:27 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 4/12/2010 3:28 AM spake thus: I believe the LED's themselves as a component, have a service life of around 50,000 hours. The problems with current LED's for the home is that they have to have a regulator built into each one to take 120 volts AC and reduce it to just a few volts DC. That is very inefficient. I am thinking that LED's for retrofits will always be a problem. In new construction, if the building is wired with low voltage DC for lighting circuits, I think that problem can be overcome NOW. It would be pretty easy to set up a battery bank of AGM batteries that would be charged by solar panels and backed up by an AC charger. That's an interesting idea, and you may be right: this might be the wave of the future for home lighting. One problem with this is that low-voltage wiring loses much more power over long runs than comparable high-voltage wiring, due to I^2R losses. (This can be partly compensated for by using heavier conductors, but that adds cost.) While this may not be a problem in a small, compact house where the batteries are centrally located, it will definitely be a problem on a large suburban "spread" where the batteries may be located in an outbuilding. Maybe not a show-stopper, but there will definitely be some energy losses to deal with. The homeowner may end up running 8-gauge cables over long runs. Don't forget that these LEDs don't draw anywhere near what present incandescents and CFL's draw. Once you eliminate the point of use regulation, the draw is drasticallhy lower. A lot of the power consumption for present retrofit LED's is the heat given off during regulation. The LED's themselves barely draw anything by comparison. I don't foresee needing long runs of 8 gauge wire in residential applications.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The Leds I see advertised are 80-100 LPW, but its a Spot output. I use cheap HD cfls of about 60 LPW for .45c each with 9 yr warranty. Ive seen a few CFLs now at around 70 LPW. Remember incandesant are only about 15 LPW. I cant see paying the near 100% premium price for LEDs at this time for only a near 20% increase on LPW for a colder color bulb, that usualy isnt outdoor rated or dimmable and with a truely unknown life span, I would relate that to the electronics package, in real life surges, weather extremes, vibrations, all take a toll on electronics and only time will really tell whether they last as they say. Either way the excessive premium does not make them a viable option for the average home owner now. Leds are really a spot light design, not fully illuminating like a regular bulb so in most locations they may be the right bulb, as a general bulb. In time competition will stop the price gouging Leds manufacturers now enjoy from limited competition, but that is years away. I want to try a few 2 w exterior Leds as landscape units, but even these are near 25$ each! I think its going to be Cfls for awhile for me. |
#43
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 18, 1:28*am, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In , ransley wrote in small part: SNIP to mention of Lights of America I bought a Lights Of America Led, [ makers of many high quaility commercial lighting products] and found the 9w Led to be a total lie and terrible color rendition, it put out about 25% as much as a HD Cfl ! SNIP afterwards * Maybe the many L.O.A. CFLs that I have personally purchased and used and had personal experience with are other than these "many high quality commercial lighting products"? * Although L.O.A. appears to me to be much better than the outright stool specimens that nearly all dollar store CFLs (with possible exceptions at some Dollar Tree stores) appear to me to be, I am rather displeased by my personal experience with L.O.A. CFLs. *I have only purchased two L.O.A. screw-base CFLs after 2002 and at least one likely both of those in 2005. One of those latest two gave me problems by the time I ran it a few 10's of operating hours and both of those two appeared to me to produce lower ratio of claimed to actual light output than I found from CFLs of most other brands and from most non-dollar-store A19-style incandescents that stated light output in lumens. * All of the L.O.A. CFLs that I purchased in 2002 or earlier similarly appeared to me to have lower ratio of actual to claimed light output than most CFLs other than L.O.A. and the dollar-store-junkers, and my memory at this moment is of 6 of these that I personally purchased and 2 of these 6 completely died young (around 12 and a few hundred operating hours respectively) and 2 others of these 6 significantly malfunctioned due to poor contact in plug-socket connections ("modular" rather than "integral" design, bulb plugs into a screw-base ballast module) and/or poor solder joints. * I mention this in at least a bit more detail in: http://members.misty.com/don/cfapp.html#b * I stand by my negative experiences with L.O.A. that I mention there and above here as actual personal experience with L.O.A. products that I personally purchased in-store from major-name retailers. *(Although I disclaim guaranteeing accuracy down to the year of every one of my many negative personal experiences with L.O.A. CFL products, including year-of-purchase and year of malfunction that I actually personally experienced.) *- Don Klipstein ) I meant High Quality as kinda a joke. What I was suprised at was my ACE sold LOA leds that LOA wont even show on their site, they are crap, even a grey color of a bs lumen rating. |
#44
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On 4/18/2010 1:28 AM, Don Klipstein wrote:
, ransley wrote in small part: SNIP to mention of Lights of America I bought a Lights Of America Led, [ makers of many high quaility commercial lighting products] and found the 9w Led to be a total lie and terrible color rendition, it put out about 25% as much as a HD Cfl ! SNIP afterwards Maybe the many L.O.A. CFLs that I have personally purchased and used and had personal experience with are other than these "many high quality commercial lighting products"? Although L.O.A. appears to me to be much better than the outright stool specimens that nearly all dollar store CFLs (with possible exceptions at some Dollar Tree stores) appear to me to be, I am rather displeased by my personal experience with L.O.A. CFLs. I have only purchased two L.O.A. screw-base CFLs after 2002 and at least one likely both of those in 2005. One of those latest two gave me problems by the time I ran it a few 10's of operating hours and both of those two appeared to me to produce lower ratio of claimed to actual light output than I found from CFLs of most other brands and from most non-dollar-store A19-style incandescents that stated light output in lumens. All of the L.O.A. CFLs that I purchased in 2002 or earlier similarly appeared to me to have lower ratio of actual to claimed light output than most CFLs other than L.O.A. and the dollar-store-junkers, and my memory at this moment is of 6 of these that I personally purchased and 2 of these 6 completely died young (around 12 and a few hundred operating hours respectively) and 2 others of these 6 significantly malfunctioned due to poor contact in plug-socket connections ("modular" rather than "integral" design, bulb plugs into a screw-base ballast module) and/or poor solder joints. I mention this in at least a bit more detail in: http://members.misty.com/don/cfapp.html#b I stand by my negative experiences with L.O.A. that I mention there and above here as actual personal experience with L.O.A. products that I personally purchased in-store from major-name retailers. (Although I disclaim guaranteeing accuracy down to the year of every one of my many negative personal experiences with L.O.A. CFL products, including year-of-purchase and year of malfunction that I actually personally experienced.) - Don Klipstein ) I got a dollar store CFL that blew apart in a matter of days. The little cheap capacitors blew apart like a black cat firecracker. Long term the LED lights will suffer from the same issues as other electronics. Heat, solder, and component failure will do them in early too. Who cares about the warranty? the here today gone tomorrow Chinese MFR will make sure the warranty is next to worthless. And quality lights manufactured by major companies will not be cost effective. Who wants to be green when it costs more long term? At least old school light bulbs tend to last. I think if Edison were to come back to life in 2010 he would be both amazed and befuddled at the same time bob |
#46
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:06:42 -0500, bob wrote:
On 4/18/2010 1:28 AM, Don Klipstein wrote: , ransley wrote in small part: SNIP to mention of Lights of America I bought a Lights Of America Led, [ makers of many high quaility commercial lighting products] and found the 9w Led to be a total lie and terrible color rendition, it put out about 25% as much as a HD Cfl ! SNIP afterwards Maybe the many L.O.A. CFLs that I have personally purchased and used and had personal experience with are other than these "many high quality commercial lighting products"? Although L.O.A. appears to me to be much better than the outright stool specimens that nearly all dollar store CFLs (with possible exceptions at some Dollar Tree stores) appear to me to be, I am rather displeased by my personal experience with L.O.A. CFLs. I have only purchased two L.O.A. screw-base CFLs after 2002 and at least one likely both of those in 2005. One of those latest two gave me problems by the time I ran it a few 10's of operating hours and both of those two appeared to me to produce lower ratio of claimed to actual light output than I found from CFLs of most other brands and from most non-dollar-store A19-style incandescents that stated light output in lumens. All of the L.O.A. CFLs that I purchased in 2002 or earlier similarly appeared to me to have lower ratio of actual to claimed light output than most CFLs other than L.O.A. and the dollar-store-junkers, and my memory at this moment is of 6 of these that I personally purchased and 2 of these 6 completely died young (around 12 and a few hundred operating hours respectively) and 2 others of these 6 significantly malfunctioned due to poor contact in plug-socket connections ("modular" rather than "integral" design, bulb plugs into a screw-base ballast module) and/or poor solder joints. I mention this in at least a bit more detail in: http://members.misty.com/don/cfapp.html#b I stand by my negative experiences with L.O.A. that I mention there and above here as actual personal experience with L.O.A. products that I personally purchased in-store from major-name retailers. (Although I disclaim guaranteeing accuracy down to the year of every one of my many negative personal experiences with L.O.A. CFL products, including year-of-purchase and year of malfunction that I actually personally experienced.) - Don Klipstein ) I got a dollar store CFL that blew apart in a matter of days. The little cheap capacitors blew apart like a black cat firecracker. Long term the LED lights will suffer from the same issues as other electronics. Heat, solder, and component failure will do them in early too. Who cares about the warranty? the here today gone tomorrow Chinese MFR will make sure the warranty is next to worthless. And quality lights manufactured by major companies will not be cost effective. Who wants to be green when it costs more long term? At least old school light bulbs tend to last. I think if Edison were to come back to life in 2010 he would be both amazed and befuddled at the same time bob And NO hazardous material disposal problem. |
#47
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In article , Tegger wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in om: "GE says the new bulb uses just 9 watts and provides a 77% energy savings while lasting 25 times as long as the 40-watt bulb it's intended to replace." http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...b-lasts-years/ Assume a 40-watt bulb lasts 1000 hours. 40w x 1000 = 40 kwh x $0.15/kwh = $6.00 operating cost over life of bulb. The new bulb uses 9 watts. So for the same period, 9w x 1000 = 9 kwh x $0.15/kwh = $1.35 operating cost. And the difference in purchase price between the two bulbs? The one lasting 25 times as long is not a CFL but an LED bulb. A 13 or 14 watt CFL now often comes in 6-packs for $10, and appear to me to now actually last usually 5,000 hours or more in most home use. A 60 watt incandescent may cost 80 cents, or 30 cents at home centers, and at the 12 cents per KWH that I think is current or very-soon USA national residential rate average consumes $7.20 in electricity over its 1,000 hour life. So maybe it costs $7.50 to acquire and operate over its 1,000 hour average life. A 14 watt CFL costing $1.67 and lasting 5,000 hours costs $10.07 at this rate to acquire and operate over its life that is 5 times as long. Which translates to costing $2.02 to use over the amount of time that a 60 watt incandescent costs $7.50. (.502 cent per hour of operation.) My problem with the CFLs is that the amounts of money they save, over the time they save it, are exceedingly trivial. Not worth it, to me. $5.05 for each 60 watt incandescent over the amount of time it lasts is trivial? A smaller number for 40 watt incandescents and a bigger number for 75 and 100 watt ones? A 100 watt incandescent rated to last on average 750 hours can be replaced by a 26 watt CFL, and 130V 100 watt incandescents and Philips "Double life" 100W incandescents as well as any lasting even longer can be replaced by a 23 watt CFL. At 12 cents per KWH, this amounts to .888 to ..924 cent per hour. Acquisition costs of $3-$4.50 CFLs likely to last 4,000 hours or more (especially 23 watt ones that overheat less easily than 26 watt ones) will reduce these savings to around .77 to .84 cent per hour. Add to these the acquisition cost of incandescents, anywhere from .02 to .11 cent per hour, unless they are superlonglife ones dim enough to be replaced by an 18-20 watt CFL rather than a 23 watt one. So a 100 watt incandescent costs on average .79-.95 cent per operating hour more than a CFL replacent. How many bulbs do you have, and how many hours per month do you use each one? For most people, difference between incandescent and CFL for all of their light bulb uses where CFLs make sense adds up to a lot more than some mere pennies per month. It's not worth it to most consumers either, which is why the bulb industry has to lobby the government to ban incandescents in order to create a market for their CFLs. Can you cite how it is the "bulb industry" (electric lamp industry, in large part GE and Philips and Sylvania) rather than environmental groups lobbied for the incandescent ban? It appears to me that GE, Philips and Sylvania would rather oppose it, now that I am seeing CFLs with lower ratio of price to life expectancy than most incandescents. I have heard of the lamp industry working with Congress on the details of the ban. I suspect the results of that were a large range of exemptions, many of which actually make sense to me to lack of suitable non-incandescent replacements. The exemptions all together appear to me to amount to a set of loopholes wide enough to reroute the Mississippi River through. I mention those in: http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html - Don Klipstein ) |
#48
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
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#49
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In , wrote
in part: SNIP everything already said to edit for space No dimmers. Just normal lamps and fixtures. The worst culprits have been the PAR floods (potlights) which have NEVER lasted more than 14 months - and usually the last 5 or more of that 14 being extremely slow to light off. I would guess from being used in those heat hellholes known as recessed ceiling fixtures. I would look for ones of the Philips brand, and I did just check and see that bulbs.com has these. I even found two dimmable ones with no noted restrictions, but they are fairly expensive: http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=1...&RefId=45&Ref2 =Compact+Fluorescent+Screw-in http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=1...&RefId=45&Ref2 =Compact+Fluorescent+Screw-in Never had much luch with the F40 tubes either, Those were *the standard* for commercial lighting from at least as far back as sometime in the 1960's until T8 displaced them largely in the 1990's. However, there were and are lower grade "residential grade" ballasts for those. Also - if the fixture has a starter and a replacement bulb is cranky or malfunctions, replace the starter. Bad bulbs are hard on starters, and bad starters are hard on bulbs. and "green" t12s are even worse. I'm down to only 3 of those disasters left in the house. If you man 34 watt version of F40T12, those are crankier than the true 40 watt ones. They still worked well in commercial grade fixtures with commercial grade ballasts. I DID still have 1 old circline compact flourescent in working condition up untill about 3 months ago that I bought about 22-25 years ago. Bought 2 - the first one died about 6 years back. Cannot remember the manufacturer but it was North American - Don Klipstein ) |
#50
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In article , SMS wrote:
On 11/04/10 6:07 PM, DanG wrote: Amen, the ones I have tried have all blown. They have been name brand, not discount bulbs. The one on the front porch is still going. By choice I will not be investing in any more CFL or LED until the technology improves. There's your problem, you think you're investing when you buy a light bulb. But it's true about LED bulbs not lasting all that long. There's a huge difference between a low power, 20mA LED indicator lamp that will likely last for a hundred years, and a high-power LED lamp that is designed to actually illuminate a given area. High power LEDs generate an enormous amount of heat at the very small semiconductor junction. It's very difficult to adequately heat sink these junctions. If you look at something like a 3W MR16 lamp, you can see the amount of metal used for the heat sink. If you block the air flow across the bulb by putting it into a sealed enclosure (like for automotive lamps) then it will quickly self destruct. Incandescent bulbs dissipate the filament heat through the glass of the bulb which is much easier to manage. Much of how an incandescent gets rid of its heat is by radiation. Close to half the power going into an incandescent (varies by individual design) becomes infrared of wavelengths that the filament radiates through the glass. That infrared goes where the light goes. The heat materializes where this radiation is absorbed - usually mostly outside the fixture. Incandescents also work OK at higher temperatures that CFLs and LED bulbs are not OK in. - Don Klipstein ) |
#51
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
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#52
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In article , Tegger wrote:
(Don Klipstein) wrote in : Incandescents also work OK at higher temperatures that CFLs and LED bulbs are not OK in. And you can safely put the very same incandescent 1) over your stove 2) by your bed 3) on the porch 4) upside down 5) in the kids' rooms... And you know the light emitted is always going to look "right" no matter low little you paid for that incandescent. I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. As it turns out, I am happy to: 1. Buy 13 watt bare spirals that serve me well in my ceiling fan light, despite being somewhat upside-down, and in my encvlosed kitchen ceiling fixture 2. Buy 19 watt 3500K spirals that serve me well in my bathroom light, my bedroom floor lamp, and my smaller living room floor lamp. 3. Have purchased in a bit of quantity 13 watt 4100K twintubes for my modified larger living room floor lamp (quad-13-watt), although I plan to replace it or remodify it to take a single 42 watt 4100K spiral once my stock of 13-watt twintubes runs low (which may be quite a while), maybe somewhat sooner. (I have other applications for 13 watt twintubes.) 4. Use the 9 watt spiral that serves me well for the light over my kitchen stove. - Don Klipstein ) |
#53
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On 04/12/10 07:53 am, ransley wrote:
I bought a Lights of America LED bulb last year. It was very dim (Probably about half the rated output), had an odd color spectrum to it that I can't quite put my finger on, and it only lasted about 2 weeks before it burned out. LED lights aren't there yet. Maybe in a few years. I bought that LOA crap, its one of the junk LEDs as you say, funny it wasnt even on the LOA web site, ACE sold it to me, im ****ed at that LOA -ACE bulb too We bought some LOA LED bulbs at Sam's -- two different kinds: the one kind all seem to be doing OK still, while the one PAR38 one has just lost one-fourth of its LEDs. They are supposed to have a 3-yr warranty; I'll have to check how much we paid and see if it's worth the shipping cost to send it back for a replacement We also bought some LOA PAR30 bulbs at Costco. Just after one of them lost half of its LEDs, we got a letter from Costco inviting us to return them all for a full refund, as they had been found not to last as long as advertised. We took Costco up on the offer. Perhaps Sam's, Costco and Ace all got what seemed to them like good deals on items that had in fact been discontinued. The only LED bubs I see anywhere now are much more expensive and have much lower light outputs. Perce |
#54
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote:
(Don Klipstein) wrote : * Incandescents also work OK at higher temperatures that CFLs and LED bulbs are not OK in. And you can safely put the very same incandescent 1) over your stove 2) by your bed 3) on the porch 4) upside down 5) in the kids' rooms... And you know the light emitted is always going to look "right" no matter low little you paid for that incandescent. I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Run 11 -100 w incandesants and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. |
#55
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
ransley wrote in
: On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... -- Tegger |
#56
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote:
ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. Almost all of ours are 60W, though there are 4-12 per fixture. ;-) and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle). Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. Yep. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. Perzactly! The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. Yep. I don't like any CFLs I've seen. They're ugly in expensive light fixtures, as well. No thanks. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... ;-) |
#57
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 9:58*am, keith wrote:
On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. Almost all of ours are 60W, though there are 4-12 per fixture. *;-) and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... *When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle). Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. Yep. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. Perzactly! *The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. *CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. Yep. *I don't like any CFLs I've seen. *They're ugly in expensive light fixtures, as well. *No thanks. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ..45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. |
#58
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote:
ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... -- Tegger Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. |
#59
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 2:28*pm, ransley wrote:
On Apr 23, 9:58*am, keith wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. Almost all of ours are 60W, though there are 4-12 per fixture. *;-) and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... *When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle). Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. Yep. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. Perzactly! *The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. *CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. Yep. *I don't like any CFLs I've seen. *They're ugly in expensive light fixtures, as well. *No thanks. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - .45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. You need to *think*. |
#60
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 2:35*pm, ransley wrote:
On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... -- Tegger Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, Cool! They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work? IOW, you're a liar. I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. *The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! *I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. I repeat, you need to learn to *think*. |
#61
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
keith wrote in
: On Apr 23, 2:28*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 9:58*am, keith wrote: .45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. You need to *think*. Incandescents used to be 30¢ a bulb until the recent legislative attacks. And you ain't gonna get no pretty light out of the bargain-basement CFLs, that's for sure. -- Tegger |
#62
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
ransley wrote in
: Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. What kind of building? Are we talking apartment buldings with tons of bulbs in the common areas? Do you force your tenants to install CFLs in their units? The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! When the sun isn't beating down, it's easier for the A/C to keep up without running all the time. I guess this doesn't apply in places like Phoenix in July, but I'm not in such a place. I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. The dollar amount saved is trivial. Not worth the savings for the trouble. Now if CFLs saved the average homeowner, oh, $300 per month in electricity, the feds wouldn't need to force everybody to use CFLs, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. -- Tegger |
#63
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:31:32 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote: keith wrote in : On Apr 23, 2:28Â*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 9:58Â*am, keith wrote: .45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. You need to *think*. Incandescents used to be 30¢ a bulb until the recent legislative attacks. And you ain't gonna get no pretty light out of the bargain-basement CFLs, that's for sure. Assuming you get any light AT ALL after a couple months. |
#64
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In ,
keith wrote in part: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: SNIP to here Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle). Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. Yep. It costs about half as much to heat a home with a heat pump as it does with resistive heating. And in most areas, it costs less to heat a home with gas or oil than it does with resistive heating. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. Perzactly! The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them. What? No need for lighting for long outside a bathroom in a house in a location that needs heat 7-8 months out of the year? SNIP from here - Don Klipstein ) |
#66
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In ,
keith wrote: On Apr 23, 2:35*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote in news: : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, Cool! They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work? IOW, you're a liar. CFLs replacing incandescents save on net energy costs, even when heat pumps, water heaters, and ovens are included. Heat pumps deliver around twice as much heating from a given amount of electricity consumption as resistive heaters do, since about half the heat that heat pumps put out is pumped in from outside rather than heat from converting electrical energy to heat energy. Since incandescent household lighting has very little of its heat heating the water in water heaters or the contents of ovens, I am prone to take a dim view of those advocating incandescents over CFL on the heat of incandescent home lighting being good for water heaters and ovens. I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. *The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! *I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. I repeat, you need to learn to *think*. As if CFL advocates don't in light of the above? - Don Klipstein ) |
#67
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
In article , Tegger wrote:
ransley wrote in : Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. What kind of building? Are we talking apartment buldings with tons of bulbs in the common areas? Do you force your tenants to install CFLs in their units? My experience is that landlords do not force tenants to use CFLs in place of incandescents. It appears to me that one reason is that the energy savings from tenant use of CFLs is in tenant's electric bill for lighting and tenant's electric bill for air conditioning. To a smaller extent, tenant use of CFLs in place of incandescents increases the landlord's heating bill. I suspect that is a significant reason why my landlord filled my included-in-apartment light fixtures with incandescents that are rated to last 5,000 hours at 130V. While the landlord used a fair amount of CFL usage for hallway lights that are run on the landlord's dime. The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! When the sun isn't beating down, it's easier for the A/C to keep up without running all the time. I guess this doesn't apply in places like Phoenix in July, but I'm not in such a place. I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. The dollar amount saved is trivial. Not worth the savings for the trouble. Now if CFLs saved the average homeowner, oh, $300 per month in electricity, the feds wouldn't need to force everybody to use CFLs, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. As if savings are trivial if they are less than triple what I pay for car insurance or less than 40% of what I pay to rent a larger 1-bedroom apartment with free off-street parking and located within walking distance of a major public transit terminal? -- Tegger - Don Klipstein ) |
#68
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 24, 1:19*am, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In article , Tegger wrote: ransley wrote in : Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. What kind of building? Are we talking apartment buldings with tons of bulbs in the common areas? Do you force your tenants to install CFLs in their units? * My experience is that landlords do not force tenants to use CFLs in place of incandescents. *It appears to me that one reason is that the energy savings from tenant use of CFLs is in tenant's electric bill for lighting and tenant's electric bill for air conditioning. *To a smaller extent, tenant use of CFLs in place of incandescents increases the landlord's heating bill. * I suspect that is a significant reason why my landlord filled my included-in-apartment light fixtures with incandescents that are rated to last 5,000 hours at 130V. * While the landlord used a fair amount of CFL usage for hallway lights that are run on the landlord's dime. The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! When the sun isn't beating down, it's easier for the A/C to keep up without running all the time. I guess this doesn't apply in places like Phoenix in July, but I'm not in such a place. I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. The dollar amount saved is trivial. Not worth the savings for the trouble. Now if CFLs saved the average homeowner, oh, $300 per month in electricity, the feds wouldn't need to force everybody to use CFLs, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. * As if savings are trivial if they are less than triple what I pay for car insurance or less than 40% of what I pay to rent a larger 1-bedroom apartment with free off-street parking and located within walking distance of a major public transit terminal? -- Tegger *- Don Klipstein )- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Building hall ways and my houses. I dont like tenants to use cfls, because they pay electricity and incandesants help lower my heating bill in wInter! |
#69
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 4:42*pm, Tegger wrote:
ransley wrote : Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. What kind of building? Are we talking apartment buldings with tons of bulbs in the common areas? Do you force your tenants to install CFLs in their units? The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! When the sun isn't beating down, it's easier for the A/C to keep up without running all the time. I guess this doesn't apply in places like Phoenix in July, but I'm not in such a place. I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. The dollar amount saved is trivial. Not worth the savings for the trouble.. Now if CFLs saved the average homeowner, oh, $300 per month in electricity, the feds wouldn't need to force everybody to use CFLs, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. -- Tegger Her again your logic is absent, the savings is not trivial when you cut your bill 40-60% and who pays 300 a month for general electric use without AC. Im in a 3500 sq ft house with a now 35$ bill ,CFLs inside, out, and house and tree lighting. wake up and get with reality. Go to HD and price and buy a few packs of soft white " green colored packs" of cfls and stop paying that utility co an arm and a leg every year. |
#70
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 4:31*pm, Tegger wrote:
keith wrote : On Apr 23, 2:28*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 9:58*am, keith wrote: .45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. *You need to *think*. Incandescents used to be 30¢ a bulb until the recent legislative attacks. And you ain't gonna get no pretty light out of the bargain-basement CFLs, that's for sure. -- Tegger Here again your logic is absent, you are clueless. HD CFLs and most others now replicate incandesants on color rendition. There is a 2-3 yr old review comparison at Popular Mechanics magazine that rated HD soft white BETTER than incandesants at color rendition in some situations. Cfls coatings have come along way over the last few years, technology moves on if you havnt heard. That pop machanics review is hard to find, but its there, read it. CR also did a review comparison test, it will all suprise you. At HD you have a 30 day no questions asked return policy, buy and try em. Keep a reciept and its a 9 yr warranty so you can perpetualy always have cfls. |
#71
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 3:00*pm, keith wrote:
On Apr 23, 2:35*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... -- Tegger Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, Cool! *They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work? IOW, you're a liar. I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. *The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! *I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. I repeat, you need to learn to *think*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Dam what kind of Dumb ****s you and teger are, totaly stupid ingnoramuses. FACT, 94-96 % of the power consumed by incandesants is output as HEAT, not light you see or use. CFLs are 65-75% more efficent. FACT, 11, 100 w incandesants output the same heat as a 1000w resistance heater. FACT, for most of the US Ng is now about half the price of Ng per BTU. FACT, incandesants waste 75% more energy than Flourescents. So keep heating your house this summer with incandesants, and keep running that AC more to remove that heat your incandesants enter in your home, just Keep a wastin and paying a higher electric bill. Im laughing hard at this stupidity you two keep posting. |
#72
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Apr 23, 2:58*pm, keith wrote:
On Apr 23, 2:28*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 9:58*am, keith wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. Almost all of ours are 60W, though there are 4-12 per fixture. *;-) and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... *When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle). Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. Yep. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. Perzactly! *The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. *CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. Yep. *I don't like any CFLs I've seen. *They're ugly in expensive light fixtures, as well. *No thanks. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - .45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. *You need to *think*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey dumbs ass, .45c a piece, 9 yr warranty, 75% electric use reduction, and if you think HD, GE, Phillips etc etc will go broke then a cave is your best home option. You dont think. |
#73
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
ransley wrote:
On Apr 23, 3:00 pm, keith wrote: On Apr 23, 2:35 pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19 am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25 pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... -- Tegger Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, Cool! They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work? IOW, you're a liar. I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. I repeat, you need to learn to *think*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Dam what kind of Dumb ****s you and teger are, totaly stupid ingnoramuses. FACT, 94-96 % of the power consumed by incandesants is output as HEAT, not light you see or use. CFLs are 65-75% more efficent. FACT, 11, 100 w incandesants output the same heat as a 1000w resistance heater. FACT, for most of the US Ng is now about half the price of Ng per BTU. FACT, incandesants waste 75% more energy than Flourescents. So keep heating your house this summer with incandesants, and keep running that AC more to remove that heat your incandesants enter in your home, just Keep a wastin and paying a higher electric bill. Im laughing hard at this stupidity you two keep posting. Holy cow, a 100w light bulb which draws less than 1 amp puts out more heat than a 1,000w heater drawing 9 amps? I should get rid of the CFL lights I have and heat the house with 100w light bulbs next winter and save a lot of money, thanks for the tip! Dang! I'm gonna save so much money I'll have to call the newspapers and TV stations so they can inform everyone that the energy crisis is over! I knew the coming government ban on 100w light bulbs was a conspiracy by government and energy companies to rip of consumers. SOUND THE ALARM! WE WON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT! TDD |
#74
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
ransley wrote in
: snip Dam what kind of Dumb ****s you and teger are, totaly stupid ingnoramuses. FACT, 94-96 % of the power consumed by incandesants is output as HEAT, not light you see or use. But, as I keep pointing out (very politely, mind you), the primary problem is that the /dollar values/ in question are very small, regardless of what the percentages are. snip Im laughing hard at this stupidity you two keep posting. You're not laughing, you're absolutely apoplectic with anger that I choose not to agree with you, and wish instead to go my own way with incandescents. You probably regard my viewpoint as horribly immoral. -- Tegger |
#75
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
ransley wrote in
: Her again your logic is absent, the savings is not trivial when you cut your bill 40-60% and who pays 300 a month for general electric use without AC. Im in a 3500 sq ft house with a now 35$ bill ,CFLs inside, out, and house and tree lighting. wake up and get with reality. Go to HD and price and buy a few packs of soft white " green colored packs" of cfls and stop paying that utility co an arm and a leg every year. If CFLs were truly that much of an improvement over incandescents, it would have been unnecessary for lobbyists all over the First World to talk government employees into forcing the peple into using them. -- Tegger |
#76
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 04:39:59 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 23, 2:58*pm, keith wrote: On Apr 23, 2:28*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 9:58*am, keith wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. Almost all of ours are 60W, though there are 4-12 per fixture. *;-) and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... *When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle). Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. Yep. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. Perzactly! *The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. *CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. Yep. *I don't like any CFLs I've seen. *They're ugly in expensive light fixtures, as well. *No thanks. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - .45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin. For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. *You need to *think*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey dumbs ass, .45c a piece, 9 yr warranty, 75% electric use reduction, and if you think HD, GE, Phillips etc etc will go broke then a cave is your best home option. You dont think. Sorry, lying is not thinking. |
#77
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
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#78
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 06:02:19 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein)
wrote: In , keith wrote: On Apr 23, 2:35*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote in news: : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, Cool! They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work? IOW, you're a liar. CFLs replacing incandescents save on net energy costs, even when heat pumps, water heaters, and ovens are included. Insignificant. Heat pumps deliver around twice as much heating from a given amount of electricity consumption as resistive heaters do, since about half the heat that heat pumps put out is pumped in from outside rather than heat from converting electrical energy to heat energy. Duh! You have a command of the obvious, anyway. Since incandescent household lighting has very little of its heat heating the water in water heaters or the contents of ovens, I am prone to take a dim view of those advocating incandescents over CFL on the heat of incandescent home lighting being good for water heaters and ovens. Either you aren't reading or your biases are making you blind. No one is advocating incandescent bulbs because they save electricity. CFLs are ugly, the light is ugly, are slow to start, can't be used in many fixtures, and are expensive, no matter what "ransley" says. I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. *The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! *I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. I repeat, you need to learn to *think*. As if CFL advocates don't in light of the above? Right. With your stupid comment about heat pumps only being used in heating season and your blindness to the real argument, you've joined that club. |
#79
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 04:37:33 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote: On Apr 23, 3:00*pm, keith wrote: On Apr 23, 2:35*pm, ransley wrote: On Apr 23, 7:19*am, Tegger wrote: ransley wrote : On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Tegger wrote: I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy. -- Tegger And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money. Run 11-100 w incandesants Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting. and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off. Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower. And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting. CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant. Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty... -- Tegger Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped 50-60%, Cool! *They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work? IOW, you're a liar. I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. *The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! *I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of. I repeat, you need to learn to *think*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Dam what kind of Dumb ****s you and teger are, totaly stupid ingnoramuses. There are none so blind as those that will not see, ransley. FACT, 94-96 % of the power consumed by incandesants is output as HEAT, not light you see or use. No, dumbass, *ALL* of it is. Just as *ALL* of the output of CFLs is heat (yes, less of it). CFLs are 65-75% more efficent. Whoopie! FACT, 11, 100 w incandesants output the same heat as a 1000w resistance heater. Wow, another master of the obvious. FACT, for most of the US Ng is now about half the price of Ng per BTU. What *are* you yammering about? FACT, incandesants waste 75% more energy than Flourescents. So what? That electricity is absolutely *trivial* compared to the heat pump, water heater, oven, and plasma TV. So keep heating your house this summer with incandesants, and keep running that AC more to remove that heat your incandesants enter in your home, just Keep a wastin and paying a higher electric bill. Im laughing hard at this stupidity you two keep posting. Idiot. Light bulbs are *rarely* turned on in cooling season[*]. That time of year has more light, though I can understand that the blind can't see that. [*] and when they are, I want light *now*, not in fifteen minutes because in fifteen minutes they'll have been off for at least ten. |
#80
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LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:36:32 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
ransley wrote in : snip Dam what kind of Dumb ****s you and teger are, totaly stupid ingnoramuses. FACT, 94-96 % of the power consumed by incandesants is output as HEAT, not light you see or use. But, as I keep pointing out (very politely, mind you), the primary problem is that the /dollar values/ in question are very small, regardless of what the percentages are. That is the only percentage that matters. Ransley is a liar with his 50% *overall* savings with the only change being CFLs. snip Im laughing hard at this stupidity you two keep posting. You're not laughing, you're absolutely apoplectic with anger that I choose not to agree with you, and wish instead to go my own way with incandescents. You probably regard my viewpoint as horribly immoral. That's the way with watermelons. |
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