On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:14:04 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote:
THANK YOU WILLSHAK! The first answer got it right, Steve I hope Vertical
Installation's what you did. There's NO benefit nor advantage to the
Horizontal Installation. It's the dumbest practice that ruins new everything
right from the start and provides poor fire protection.
How does it provide poor fire protection? Horizontal instalation
makes it a whole lot easier to hide the joints too, which is why
expert drywallers almost ALWATS install the panels horizontally - and
use sheets longer than 8 feet.

On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 3:14:10 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:
replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote:
THANK YOU WILLSHAK! The first answer got it right, Steve I hope Vertical
Installation's what you did. There's NO benefit nor advantage to the
Horizontal Installation. It's the dumbest practice that ruins new everything
right from the start and provides poor fire protection.
--


You're too late, 7 years ago, Steve was roasted in a house fire and his body was eaten by feral gerbils that had been living under his home. The authorities remarked that they had never seen such see such fat and happy little rodents. The gerbils had tasted human flesh and could never be adopted out so they were all put down. It was a real tragedy. (~_~

[8~{} Uncle Sad Monster

On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 3:14:10 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:

I am a dummy.

I can't read.

I am a dummy.

I can't read.

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm


Yes!! You certainly are!!

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Very simply, the seams aren't air-tight and therefore not fire-tight. As
proven by the nightly news (see YouTube). Story upon story of this building
and that home burned down to the ground in less than 30-minutes...what
drywall's rated for and easily capable of retaining a fire for. But, even the
ASTM won't correct its decades-old error in The Code...I've tried for almost
15-years. If you haven't seen my posted-today list, Vertical Installation is
so good that it's not required to be taped and mudded and is at its full level
of fire protection upon installation.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
Ha, ha, ha. You are clever.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 03:14:02 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Very simply, the seams aren't air-tight and therefore not fire-tight. As
proven by the nightly news (see YouTube). Story upon story of this building
and that home burned down to the ground in less than 30-minutes...what
drywall's rated for and easily capable of retaining a fire for. But, even the
ASTM won't correct its decades-old error in The Code...I've tried for almost
15-years. If you haven't seen my posted-today list, Vertical Installation is
so good that it's not required to be taped and mudded and is at its full level
of fire protection upon installation.
PROPERLY mudded the joint is as fire resistant as the rest of the
drywall. What the stories don't tell is in many cases there is no
"fire blocking" so when fire gets behind the drywall it's like a
blowtotch. No difference between horizontal and vertical.

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
That's what I initially thought, until I tried it and broke it down. A
Vertical's seam is 100% backed and the full panel's entire perimeter edges are
as well. However, a Horizontal seam only has a 1-1/2" support every 14-1/2"s.
That's only about 10% of a seam that's backed. And, no-one does nor would
waste the time to properly put any back-blocking behind the seam, which should
be required.

I can kick and hammer a Vertical seam and nothing happens. But, with
Horizontal I can just moderately lean against it to deflect it open and
completely crack the seam open and loose. I've heard your point of better
seam-hiding before and frankly I've only rarely witnessed it. I use just a 10"
knife on my seams and then lightly sand with a block or pole sander's plate.
No gaps, totally flat and entirely invisible, always.

You might enjoy My List. It's here, at the end/bottom:
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-318143-.htm

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 11:44:02 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
That's what I initially thought, until I tried it and broke it down. A
Vertical's seam is 100% backed and the full panel's entire perimeter edges are
as well. However, a Horizontal seam only has a 1-1/2" support every 14-1/2"s.
That's only about 10% of a seam that's backed. And, no-one does nor would
waste the time to properly put any back-blocking behind the seam, which should
be required.

I can kick and hammer a Vertical seam and nothing happens. But, with
Horizontal I can just moderately lean against it to deflect it open and
completely crack the seam open and loose. I've heard your point of better
seam-hiding before and frankly I've only rarely witnessed it. I use just a 10"
knife on my seams and then lightly sand with a block or pole sander's plate.
No gaps, totally flat and entirely invisible, always.

You might enjoy My List. It's here, at the end/bottom:
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-318143-.htm

If the first layer of joint compund is a "setting" compound, with the
"drying" compound just used to finish, the joint won't separate when
you lean on it. Dutabond 45 or durabobd 90 is made for that
application. Use it carefully because it is hellishly hard to sand -
it cures like concrete or plaster of paris, rather than drying like
"drywall mud". It is also 100% fire resistant - better than the
drywall itself.
This is what I meant by "properly installed"

If you want full fire rated, install 1 layer vetically with screws,
not mudded - then install the second layer horizontal , preferably
with adhesive, and mud.

Commonly done on "shared" walls in wood-framed multi-unit residential
buildings as a "fire break"

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Yep, I somewhat agree. However, that's why I came up with The List and
purposely didn't even address your "proper installation". Because, now you're
talking about specialty products and much more difficult practices being
NEEDED to rather poorly try to match Vertical's performance on every level.
And still, you're left with Butt Humps instead of flat walls. I even see
"pros" using Butt-Boards to seam between studs (floating hack-work). Absurdly
ridiculous!

I realize I may not bring you over from the dark side. But, why fix and patch
shoddy work with more steps and specialty products when you can just do it
simple, right and quick the first time with basic off-the-shelf products that
are available everywhere? Again, a 90% un-backed seam will never compare to
100% backed seam. Even in fire tests, you'll immediately notice the tape and
mud goes almost immediately and is non-existent anywhere at the end of the
fire test. I think you should give Vertical a try next time around.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:44:01 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Yep, I somewhat agree. However, that's why I came up with The List and
purposely didn't even address your "proper installation". Because, now you're
talking about specialty products and much more difficult practices being
NEEDED to rather poorly try to match Vertical's performance on every level.
And still, you're left with Butt Humps instead of flat walls. I even see
"pros" using Butt-Boards to seam between studs (floating hack-work). Absurdly
ridiculous!

I realize I may not bring you over from the dark side. But, why fix and patch
shoddy work with more steps and specialty products when you can just do it
simple, right and quick the first time with basic off-the-shelf products that
are available everywhere?

You saying you can't buy DuraBond at your local home improvement
store? And you are saying "drywall compound" isn't a "specialty
product"?
And you are saying my joints and installation are not as good or as
solid as yours? I have NEVER has a drywall seam crack - and I don't
have issues trying to get the drywall screws into the 2X4 withoit
tearing out the edge of the drywall. I can keep EVERY screw a minimum
of 2 inches from the edge except the ones at the end of the panel if
my poanel is shorter than my wall. I can buy my drywall the size I
need - 8,9, 10, or 12 feet long - so in MOST rooms, on MOST walls
there is no vertical joint at all that needs to be butted on a 2X4.
Sure makes joints a whole lot simpler when there is just one straight
line around the room, and a few corners.

Again, a 90% un-backed seam will never compare to
100% backed seam. Even in fire tests, you'll immediately notice the tape and
mud goes almost immediately and is non-existent anywhere at the end of the
fire test. I think you should give Vertical a try next time around.

I did it vertically for years ubtill a real master showed me how it
SHOULD be done, and how much simpler it is Do the ceiling first, with
the long edge at right angles to the natural light or in line with the
line of sight. Then install the top sheet on the walls, lenthwise - so
you get the tapered edge of tje eall panel meeting the tapered edge of
the ceiling panel along the line of site. When mudded, the joint is
straight and considtent, and virtually invisible. Then cut the bottom
panel to the correct size to fit between the floor and the top panel,
leaving about half an inch space at the floor. Jack the panel into
place and screw it down. You now have 2 tapered edges together to mud
and tape. Absolutely no simpler way to make an excellent drywall job.
Using setting compound, the joint is structurally sound and dry in
less than an hour - and the thin skim of "drywall mud" required to
finish the joint dries quickly - unlike a thick bed of muh that
requires 18 hours or more to fully harden, particularly 0n a humid
day. You can rock, mud, and sand a room in an 8 hour day this way -
and even prime it before you go home for supper. It can be painted
before midnight - and it WILL NOT CTACK.
Old Johann finished the mud joint with a sponge, and it required
almost no sanding at all. When I do it, I still need to sand a bit
more, but not nearly as much as when doing it "the old way".

No issues with where the vertical joints meet the ceiling/wall
interface either - dead straight joints, all around the room.

posted for all of us...



On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:44:01 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Yep, I somewhat agree. However, that's why I came up with The List and
purposely didn't even address your "proper installation". Because, now you're
talking about specialty products and much more difficult practices being
NEEDED to rather poorly try to match Vertical's performance on every level.
And still, you're left with Butt Humps instead of flat walls. I even see
"pros" using Butt-Boards to seam between studs (floating hack-work). Absurdly
ridiculous!

I realize I may not bring you over from the dark side. But, why fix and patch
shoddy work with more steps and specialty products when you can just do it
simple, right and quick the first time with basic off-the-shelf products that
are available everywhere?

You saying you can't buy DuraBond at your local home improvement
store? And you are saying "drywall compound" isn't a "specialty
product"?
And you are saying my joints and installation are not as good or as
solid as yours? I have NEVER has a drywall seam crack - and I don't
have issues trying to get the drywall screws into the 2X4 withoit
tearing out the edge of the drywall. I can keep EVERY screw a minimum
of 2 inches from the edge except the ones at the end of the panel if
my poanel is shorter than my wall. I can buy my drywall the size I
need - 8,9, 10, or 12 feet long - so in MOST rooms, on MOST walls
there is no vertical joint at all that needs to be butted on a 2X4.
Sure makes joints a whole lot simpler when there is just one straight
line around the room, and a few corners.

Again, a 90% un-backed seam will never compare to
100% backed seam. Even in fire tests, you'll immediately notice the tape and
mud goes almost immediately and is non-existent anywhere at the end of the
fire test. I think you should give Vertical a try next time around.

I did it vertically for years ubtill a real master showed me how it
SHOULD be done, and how much simpler it is Do the ceiling first, with
the long edge at right angles to the natural light or in line with the
line of sight. Then install the top sheet on the walls, lenthwise - so
you get the tapered edge of tje eall panel meeting the tapered edge of
the ceiling panel along the line of site. When mudded, the joint is
straight and considtent, and virtually invisible. Then cut the bottom
panel to the correct size to fit between the floor and the top panel,
leaving about half an inch space at the floor. Jack the panel into
place and screw it down. You now have 2 tapered edges together to mud
and tape. Absolutely no simpler way to make an excellent drywall job.
Using setting compound, the joint is structurally sound and dry in
less than an hour - and the thin skim of "drywall mud" required to
finish the joint dries quickly - unlike a thick bed of muh that
requires 18 hours or more to fully harden, particularly 0n a humid
day. You can rock, mud, and sand a room in an 8 hour day this way -
and even prime it before you go home for supper. It can be painted
before midnight - and it WILL NOT CTACK.
Old Johann finished the mud joint with a sponge, and it required
almost no sanding at all. When I do it, I still need to sand a bit
more, but not nearly as much as when doing it "the old way".

No issues with where the vertical joints meet the ceiling/wall
interface either - dead straight joints, all around the room.

Clare, I agree with your posts 100% I don't think fire protection is rated
on horizontol or vertical installation or mudding.

I also think Iggy is your NYM shifting troll buddy.

--
Tekkie

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Yes, I'm saying a DIYer doing Vertical can and does beat DuraBond and ANY
Horizontal "Master" or otherwise with pre-mixed and right out of an
un-re-mixed bucket...EVERYTIME. I've done it repeatedly in end-result and
actual time spent doing the job. I alone have matched 2-man crews a dozen
times and then kicked and punched both of our seams, to show them their crap
work.

I agree that your and Johann's completely unnecessary efforts and products can
match the "look" of Vertical, but you don't have fire-tight full-depth seams.
AND, you too don't fill-in the floor bevel that you CREATED and just happily
screw the person doing the baseboards, to finish your work before they can
even start theirs. Wonderful.

"Master", really? Flexible seams (once the DuraBond's overcome), Humps (in
longer than panel walls), doesn't finish the job (floor bevel), must rely on
specialty products (instead of structure) and plays with people's lives by
significantly reducing fire protection (the only reason drywall's used)? Oh
yeah AND, screw the painter too. Those ceiling corners can't be cut-in with a
roller, because they're almost always less than 90-degrees rather than more.

I DON'T ****-off the Carpenter, Electrician and Painter with my work and
actually receive compliments for how easy their work was and how they had the
time to get their work perfect, because everything was solid and flat and
beveled the right way in the corners. Please reconsider your Vertical
Years...only then were you any good.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:44:03 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Yes, I'm saying a DIYer doing Vertical can and does beat DuraBond and ANY
Horizontal "Master" or otherwise with pre-mixed and right out of an
un-re-mixed bucket...EVERYTIME. I've done it repeatedly in end-result and
actual time spent doing the job. I alone have matched 2-man crews a dozen
times and then kicked and punched both of our seams, to show them their crap
work.

I agree that your and Johann's completely unnecessary efforts and products can
match the "look" of Vertical, but you don't have fire-tight full-depth seams.
AND, you too don't fill-in the floor bevel that you CREATED and just happily
screw the person doing the baseboards, to finish your work before they can
even start theirs. Wonderful.

"Master", really? Flexible seams (once the DuraBond's overcome), Humps (in
longer than panel walls), doesn't finish the job (floor bevel), must rely on
specialty products (instead of structure) and plays with people's lives by
significantly reducing fire protection (the only reason drywall's used)? Oh
yeah AND, screw the painter too. Those ceiling corners can't be cut-in with a
roller, because they're almost always less than 90-degrees rather than more.

I DON'T ****-off the Carpenter, Electrician and Painter with my work and
actually receive compliments for how easy their work was and how they had the
time to get their work perfect, because everything was solid and flat and
beveled the right way in the corners. Please reconsider your Vertical
Years...only then were you any good.
Bye Bue Iggy

replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Thanks for the discussion or debate. I'm sorry I couldn't persuade you, just
keep doing what you like.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
First, look up the meaning of troll, then use it correctly. I came after
no-one. I simply defended myself and held a discussion. I answer the trolls,
but they never answer me. Clare wasn't a troll and simply wanted an
explanation and insight from the side that does it right and in the best
interests of all.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:42:18 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:14:04 GMT, Iggy
om wrote:

replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote:
THANK YOU WILLSHAK! The first answer got it right, Steve I hope Vertical
Installation's what you did. There's NO benefit nor advantage to the
Horizontal Installation. It's the dumbest practice that ruins new everything
right from the start and provides poor fire protection.
How does it provide poor fire protection? Horizontal instalation
makes it a whole lot easier to hide the joints too, which is why
expert drywallers almost ALWATS install the panels horizontally - and
use sheets longer than 8 feet.

The bedrooms in my house are all about 10x11 end are entered via a narrow hallway.
I can get 10 or 12 footers into the end bedrooms, but forget about getting them in the
middle bedroom or the bathroom. No way.

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 8:44:07 PM UTC-5, Iggy-norant wrote:

replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:

First, look up the meaning of troll, then use it correctly. I came after
no-one. I simply defended myself and held a discussion. I answer the trolls,
but they never answer me. Clare wasn't a troll and simply wanted an
explanation and insight from the side that does it right and in the best
interests of all.

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm


First things first. Look at the date of the discussions you are hot
to have. Everything you're replying to is AT LEAST 7 years old.

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
Yeah so? I already explained this to you. And no, not nearly everything...a
few things. I made a compliment here. And the others I added correct, relevant
and expanding content to, for those asking themselves a similar question that
happen upon the threads. You trolling me like I'm doing something illegal or
detrimental IN THE SLIGHTEST is the ignorance I can't comprehend.

You clearly don't want discussion and you clearly don't have anything to add
to the answers and you clearly think everyone else died and should be
memorialized with the thread being retired and removed from the internet.

Do you want your legacy of contribution to be a bunch of incomplete answers?
Do you want threads to die and to make it illegal if someone new comes along
to expound upon the answers or to ask additional questions (where the original
Asker dropped the ball)? Do you just hate interactive websites and absolutely
won't ever respond to anything positively nor cordially, if it's on an old
thread? Please get back to me when you make up your mind about what you're
doing here or how the site can be better...you aren't helping currently.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 12:44:01 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
Yeah so? I already explained this to you. And no, not nearly everything...a
few things. I made a compliment here. And the others I added correct, relevant
and expanding content to, for those asking themselves a similar question that
happen upon the threads. You trolling me like I'm doing something illegal or
detrimental IN THE SLIGHTEST is the ignorance I can't comprehend.

You clearly don't want discussion and you clearly don't have anything to add
to the answers and you clearly think everyone else died and should be
memorialized with the thread being retired and removed from the internet.

Do you want your legacy of contribution to be a bunch of incomplete answers?
Do you want threads to die and to make it illegal if someone new comes along
to expound upon the answers or to ask additional questions (where the original
Asker dropped the ball)? Do you just hate interactive websites and absolutely
won't ever respond to anything positively nor cordially, if it's on an old
thread? Please get back to me when you make up your mind about what you're
doing here or how the site can be better...you aren't helping currently.


Some folks just like to put-others-down - I guess it makes them
feel superior or something - don't waste your breath on them.
As for myself - I appreciated your discussion - and the other
constructive intelligent replies - thanks for resurrecting the old
thread. ... except that - I'm so torn and conflicted by the great
arguements for both sides that I'll probably hang my drywall
oblique from here-on-in.
John T.

replying to hubops, Iggy wrote:
Vertical's the only right way, but oblique would make you a true Artisan to
the people that die from the same Horizontal-like poor fire-protection. If you
didn't catch it, I BURIED Horizontal's laughable 3 benefits he
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-318143-.htm

Iggy posted for all of us...



replying to hubops, Iggy wrote:
Vertical's the only right way, but oblique would make you a true Artisan to
the people that die from the same Horizontal-like poor fire-protection. If you
didn't catch it, I BURIED Horizontal's laughable 3 benefits he
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-318143-.htm

As a retired/disabled emergency services person I have very serious doubts
about the fire protection aspect of any taping method of drywall. I purport
that there are numerous entry points other than drywall joints. The BEST
protection is to have a working smoke and carbon monoxide detector.

I haven't read your quoted article and don't intend to because I am not
signing up for HomemoanerHubless. If you wish to post it on a readily
available site let me know and I will read it as I will your information
from the NFPA site.

--
Tekkie

replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
Wow, that's pretty disabled...I'm not signed-up nor registered nor even use
cookies and I romp around with no problem on a 10-year old computer. The
link's right there and free for anyone to enjoy, just scroll to the bottom.
Yes, please do give me any links you think are more useful, much appreciated.
Smoke detectors are great, but not much help when the fire's spreading every
second and not being contained as designed and intended.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

Iggy posted for all of us...



replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
Wow, that's pretty disabled...I'm not signed-up nor registered nor even use
cookies and I romp around with no problem on a 10-year old computer. The
link's right there and free for anyone to enjoy, just scroll to the bottom.
Yes, please do give me any links you think are more useful, much appreciated.
Smoke detectors are great, but not much help when the fire's spreading every
second and not being contained as designed and intended.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

You conveniently avoided the reasons why I won't read your posting and
ignore my logic. You have one more chance...

--
Tekkie

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 15:04:38 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

Iggy posted for all of us...



replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
Wow, that's pretty disabled...I'm not signed-up nor registered nor even use
cookies and I romp around with no problem on a 10-year old computer. The
link's right there and free for anyone to enjoy, just scroll to the bottom.
Yes, please do give me any links you think are more useful, much appreciated.
Smoke detectors are great, but not much help when the fire's spreading every
second and not being contained as designed and intended.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

You conveniently avoided the reasons why I won't read your posting and
ignore my logic. You have one more chance...

Don't let this freak influence you.

When he stated hanging drywall had to be vertical, I knew he was an
asshat. When I was discharged from the Army in '72, I hung tons of
sheets. I finally found a government job :-))

The freak is telling you; only its way is best and absolute.

replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
Sincerely sorry, I thought I had addressed your complaint directly...hopefully
I got it right this time. It's just my explained list, it's not an "article".
The link is:
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-318143-.htm under
the question title of Installing Drywall, then just scroll to the bottom or to
the last comment.

Again, that's
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-318143-.htm and
it's totally free access to anyone...no registering, no signing-in, no
signing-up, no email input, no cookie requirement and no parental blocking.

FYI, the perfection of Vertical is that it doesn't AT ALL need nor rely on
tape and mud to achieve its full fire protection potential, tape and mud is
ONLY for beautification. Horizontal on the other hand, MUST be taped and
mudded to achieve JUST initial fire protection. Horizontal destroys the first
line of defense and is much worse than unsealed-to-the-drywall or poorly fit
electrical boxes.

replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote:
:*

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm

replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote:
:P

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ls-426583-.htm