On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:27:33 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:

Plastic water tanks are not that expensive.

You're right. I was hoping to "repair" the tank but the advice to check the
price of new is apropos. A new "plastic" tank seems to be about $2,000.

A new "5,000 Gallon Fresh Water Poly Tank" is $2,238.60 he
http://www.watertanks.com/products/0005-045.asp
Diameter:102 inches; Height:152 inches; Weight:875 pounds;

Here's a heavier "5000 Gallon Polyethylene Fresh Water Tank" for $2,000:
http://www.gototanks.com/SN5000-Gall...ater-Tank.aspx
Diameter:102 inches; Height:153 inches; Weight:1,200 lbs.

This low profile "5000 Gallon Black Water Tank" goes for $1,775:
http://www.tank-depot.com/productdet...001IW&ref=base
Diameter:141 inches; Height:86 inches; Weight:879 lbs.

I wonder how long plastic tanks last compared to steel?

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:00:10 -0600, Pete C. wrote:

Since it's a flat bottom it may be possible to replace the entire bottom
if the rest of the tank is viable. Empty, even a tank that size isn't
that difficult to lift.

Someone else suggested welding a new bottom on. Do they lift it up with a
crane and then cut the bottom off and fabricate a new bottom?

Or do they tip it over on its side and weld the bottom on from the side?

I wouldn't want it rolling down the hill!

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:26:39 -0600, dpb wrote:

Assuming you're in CA from the fire protection requirement, here's one
link that might be of some interest--they have black poly from roughly
the $2k range.
http://www.watertanks.com/contact.asp

I agree. The original estimate was wrong. The "poly" tanks appear to be
about $2,000 (plus California 10% sales tax).

From this link, there appear to be only 3 manufacturers (Norwesco, Inc. of
St. Bonifacius, Minnesota, Snyder Industries of Lincoln, Nebraska and RMI
in Gardena, California).
http://www.winebusiness.com/wbm/?go=...e&dataId=50707

They advertise a one to three year warranty for the poly tanks but say they
can last 15 years or more.

The tanks I have are welded painted steel, not corrogated or galvanized.
Looking that up, it appears the major players are "All State Tanks" of
Grove, Oklahoma, and "Columbia TecTank" of Kansas City, Kansas, both of
whom mostly erect the tanks in the field.

The web site above says "A 5,000 gallon steel tank may cost $3 per gallon"
so that's what the well guy must be talking about when he told me it would
be $20,000 to replace my 5,000 gallon steel tank.

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:52:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If the leak is on the bottom, it may be difficult to get to.

Do you think they can get to it from the inside or that they will have to
get to it from the outside?

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:03:47 -0600, Jim wrote:

send me photos and I'll coach you from there...

Hi Jim,

I'm gonna take some pics in the daylight and send them off to you (and
maybe post them somehow) but that's a GREAT idea to see if I can put a
bladder in!

You can see the tanks from Google maps so I'll give you the coordinates but
they are too tiny on google to discern much other than they are there.

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:02:28 -0600, Pete C. wrote:

If these large tanks are common in the area, there might be some place
that specializes in installing a plastic bladder liner in them to extend
their useable lifespan.

That's an interesting idea! I hadn't thought of putting a bladder in. Seems
to me that just might work. If they exist.

I'm gonna call some of these suppliers of water tanks tomorrow and ask
about bladders.

1. All State Tanks Grove, OK 918-787-2600 www.allstatetank.com
Bolted Steel 5,000 to 3 million

2. B & H Tanks Madera, CA 800-464-2951 www.bhtank.com
Corrigated/bolted Steel 1,000 to 150,000

3. Columbian TecTank Kansas City, Kansas 913-621-3700
www.columbiantectank.com Bolted/Welded Steel 4,000 to 2.5 million

4. Glazier & Glazier Penngrove, CA 707-792-9292 na Concrete 5,000
to 10,500

5. Norwesco, Inc. St. Bonifacius, Minn. 800-328-3420 www.norwesco.com
Poylethylene To 10,500

6. RMI Gardena, CA 310-327-5401 www.rotonics.com Polyethylene To
10,500

7. Snyder Industries Lincoln, Nebraska 402-467-5221 www.snydernet.com
Polyethylene To 10,500

8. Xerxes Minneapolis, Minn. 952-887-1890 www.xerxescorp.com
Fiberglass 600 to 50,000

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:37:17 -0500, news.eternal-september.org wrote:

I can't figure out how one would go about fixing this kind of leak.

If it's that small a leak, and the surrounding material is in good shape,
they make screw-in patches for those.

That's yet another potentially viable solution.

So far the solution might be:
0. Empty tank and look for the hole on the bottom
1. If small (pin hole size), use a screw-in patch from the inside;
2. If larger, weld a patch plate from the inside;
3. If too large, consider if they make tank-repair bladders;
4. If not, lift the tank, cut off the bottom, & weld on a new bottom;
5. Or, replace the steel tank with a new "poly" tank.

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:20:53 -0800, Godspeed wrote:

That's an interesting idea! I hadn't thought of putting a bladder in. Seems
to me that just might work. If they exist.

Check local codes, especially fire protection codes, to see if it's legal
to add a bladder which could melt in a fire and which would have to have
openings for the valves.

Godspeed wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:00:10 -0600, Pete C. wrote:

Since it's a flat bottom it may be possible to replace the entire bottom
if the rest of the tank is viable. Empty, even a tank that size isn't
that difficult to lift.

Someone else suggested welding a new bottom on. Do they lift it up with a
crane and then cut the bottom off and fabricate a new bottom?

Or do they tip it over on its side and weld the bottom on from the side?

I wouldn't want it rolling down the hill!

Either of those methods would probably work. A simpler method would
probably be to just gradually jack it up a couple feet on cribbing and
then work on replacing a section at a time, moving the cribbing as
needed, since the replacement metal will be likely be in 4x8 sheets.

On Jan 13, 9:44*pm, Godspeed wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:52:51 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK wrote:
The tank is on wood slats, are they on a concrete pad? *

Yes. The concrete pad is about 20 feet long by about 10 feet wide and it
has the two tanks sitting on it, side by side, with a small well house off
to one end where there pressure pump resides and the top of the well sits
along with three or four electric panels.

Why do oyu need 5000 gallons? *Or do you need even more? *
Something about fire fighting?

I think 10,000 gallons is about right for the house. All the neighbors seem
to have larger sets of tanks than just two. I misspoke before about the
10,000 gallons needing special earthquake floating pads; it's anything over
5,001 gallons which needs the special pad so that's why everyone has sets
of 5,000 gallons.

Now you mention that perhaps fittings are leaking and not the tank.

I was hoping it was the fittings but when I asked the well guy, he said the
only fittings were those I could see on the sides and top of the tank:
0. Tank 1 is leaking; tank 2 is connected to tank 1 by a 4-inch valved pipe
1. The well pumps water into the top of tank 1 via about a 2-inch line
2. The water comes out of tank 1 at about the 1/3 level for the house
3. From there, the water goes to pressure pump and a blue pressure tank
4. From the blue pressure tank, the water goes into the house
5. Additionally, the 4-inch line near the bottom of each tank goes to an
unpressurized fire hydrant called a "wharf hydrant" by the fire department

None of these fittings are leaking. I was hoping there was a 'drain plug'
or something on the bottom of the tank but the well guy said it would just
be a weak spot to start leaking.

The tank may only be rusted externally, poor maintainance?
Maybe the leak saturated the wood slats and promoted external
corrosion?

Certainly it's not helping the situation that the wood slats are constantly
wet.

The details are coming out bit by bit. Now there is a second tank?
How long have the neighboring tanks lasted?

Very good question! This house is 20 years old and I'd guess the other
houses are similar since I saw a map from the 70s which didn't even show a
paved road. Most houses here are probably less than 20 years old. I will
see if I can ask how long their tanks lasted, but some seem to be made out
of wood (at least on the outside) and some are green plastic with awnings
over them (mine is painted steel with no awnings).

Galv steel can last a long time with non-corrosiove water quality.

With all that rust on the inside, I'd suspect it's not galvanized. I wonder
how else I can tell?

If the tank is sound except for the bottom (as per other post) it
"could" be reworked. * A skilled welder could rig this thing, cut the
bottom off and repair but field repairs are hard to make as good as
new factory fabrication. *

Interesting idea! I hadn't thought that they could "cut the bottom off".
That would solve the problem, wouldn't it? One problem is that it must be
darn hard to get heavy equipment up the hill where the tanks are, but, they
must have gotten the trucks in there somehow. The well guy things they went
from the neighbor's yard.

Nobody, until you, suggested cutting the bottom off. The previous idea was
to patch it and I understood the problem of "patching the radiator". But,
if we can cut the bottom off, then it seems to me the results should be
pretty good, right?

Call around and see if a welder can "do it all" .....don't drag the
guy out there for a bid, you'll be wasting his time.
Have all the details (measurements, installation, etc) so you can
answer his questions on the phone.

I will do that. I guess I also need someone to "tip" the tank over so the
welder can work it on the side, right?

Check out new tanks online....delivered, I'll bet (unless your in BFE)
less than $3000. Installation extra.

I will report back. Would you suggest I research steel (1:1 replacement) or
some other material? I see wood and plastic tanks all around the hillside..

With the price of a new tank (with installation if oyu cannot do it
yourself).......you'll know if a repair is worth while

I see the plan.
a) Get a rough phone-call estimate from a welder for a new steel bottom
b) Get a rough estimate for a new tank from the Internet
c) Compare & decide

What is your well production rate?

Not good. The well guy tested it at 400 feet deep and he ran the well for
an hour and it shut off twice (he had to flip the breakers on and off to
restart the pump). He said the water level dropped 15 feet in that hour and
that we were getting only about 6 gallons a minute (I can double check the
paperwork).

But if you're going to own a property with a well, better plan on
getting handy or keep that check book ready.

I'm ok with learning. That's why I'm here asking and responding!

OP-

I cannot take credit for being the first one to suggest cutting off
the bottom.

Jim (the professional welder) suggested it & in a subsequent post he
offered to coach you on the repair.

Please find a photo positing site & post some photos (a couple overall
installation views & some detailed ones) so everyone in this NG can
see what's up.

Approximateing where is this property? San Diego county or NorCal?

I'm no well expert but dropping 15' in an hour to supply 360 gallons
seems like a lot BUT you probably need 400 less than that per DAY.

If oyu want to struggle by for now...get someone to re-pipe (or do it
yourself) the pump output so you can fill either or both tanks at your
choice (valves in the pump line at ground level that feed each tank)

Isolate the leaker and only fill it in fire season for the next year
or so while you save money for the repalcement.

cheers
Bob

I think most of the guys in this NG participate as much learn as to
help...see new & different problems and their solutions help us all.


cheers
Bob

Godspeed wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:26:39 -0600, dpb wrote:

Assuming you're in CA from the fire protection requirement, here's one
link that might be of some interest--they have black poly from roughly
the $2k range.
http://www.watertanks.com/contact.asp

I agree. The original estimate was wrong. The "poly" tanks appear to be
about $2,000 (plus California 10% sales tax).

From this link, there appear to be only 3 manufacturers (Norwesco, Inc. of
St. Bonifacius, Minnesota, Snyder Industries of Lincoln, Nebraska and RMI
in Gardena, California).
http://www.winebusiness.com/wbm/?go=...e&dataId=50707

They advertise a one to three year warranty for the poly tanks but say they
can last 15 years or more.

The tanks I have are welded painted steel, not corrogated or galvanized.
Looking that up, it appears the major players are "All State Tanks" of
Grove, Oklahoma, and "Columbia TecTank" of Kansas City, Kansas, both of
whom mostly erect the tanks in the field.

The web site above says "A 5,000 gallon steel tank may cost $3 per gallon"
so that's what the well guy must be talking about when he told me it would
be $20,000 to replace my 5,000 gallon steel tank.

I'd guess there are a number of other suppliers as well; there are
several more in this area than those because of the demand for ag use
tanks; depending on where in CA you are I'd expect the same for that
purpose or for the specific purposes/needs you outline.

As for the various other options --

I'd still say odds are quite high that the cost of either the bladder if
available or rigging and welding a new bottom will approach or exceed
the cost of new poly tank.

It's always worth a shot to see if can use the temporary patch that
could extend the life somewhat. My luck in welding on thin bottom of
the smaller round tanks we use (for hauling water for cattle on pasture)
has been mixed--some have turned out so thin burned thru and was given
up on and others still had sufficient overall material w/ just a few
pinholes. It'll all depend on what actually find if go in.

One thing wrt the longevity of the poly tanks -- I presuming you're in
warm weather country otherwise you would have icing problems w/ them
just outside w/ above ground piping. If so, the primary problem is
likely UV even w/ the black poly; since these are stationary application
you could undoubtedly extend lifetime by putting under roof and sun
shade on south/west sides to minimize that cause for deterioration.

--

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:33:51 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

"Godspeed" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 05:43:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The well guy said he never "fixes" leaking water tanks. Said it's like
fixing a radiator on a car. Plug one spot and the hole opens up somewhere
else.
Sounds to me like he is incompetent. The only radiator I ever fixed, stayed
fixed.


That a pretty small sample.



Ok, how about this? I've had HUNDREDS of radiators repaired over the
last 30+ years and not a one of them ever developed a leak in another spot.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:20:52 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:33:51 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

"Godspeed" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 05:43:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The well guy said he never "fixes" leaking water tanks. Said it's like
fixing a radiator on a car. Plug one spot and the hole opens up somewhere
else.
Sounds to me like he is incompetent. The only radiator I ever fixed, stayed
fixed.


That a pretty small sample.



Ok, how about this? I've had HUNDREDS of radiators repaired over the
last 30+ years and not a one of them ever developed a leak in another spot.
Depends on what caused the leak.
MOST radiator leaks that respond well to repairs are mechanical damage
or joint failure. Repairing the mechanical damage or resoldering the
split joint USUALLY make the rad virtually as good as new.

If a rad has corroded through from both sides and the fins have fallen
off, soldering up the resulting leak is a stopgap repair at best.

Same with a water tank.
A pourous weld? - fix it and it will LIOKELY last a long time. A stray
bullet went through it? Fix it and it will last a long time.
A rust blister due to damaged anti-corrosion coating on the outside
(like paint)? Good chance a repaior will last.
If the tank has corroded badly from the inside out, patching one hole
may well be the first of a LONG string of repairs, few if any of which
will be "successfull"

Godspeed wrote:
Anyone know how to fix a leaking 5000 gallon steel water tank on a concrete
pad?

One of two tanks is leaking from the bottom. Not much, but enough to keep
the concrete always wet (which likely is rusting it out even more).

I can't figure out how one would go about fixing this kind of leak.

I haven't seen any mention of products like JB Weld so far.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:20:52 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:33:51 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

"Godspeed" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 05:43:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The well guy said he never "fixes" leaking water tanks. Said it's like
fixing a radiator on a car. Plug one spot and the hole opens up somewhere
else.
Sounds to me like he is incompetent. The only radiator I ever fixed, stayed
fixed.


That a pretty small sample.



Ok, how about this? I've had HUNDREDS of radiators repaired over the
last 30+ years and not a one of them ever developed a leak in another spot.

Ok, how about this? If they sprang the leaks you repaired at an
advanced age, due to corrosion rather than physical damage from
something hitting them, you are either mistaken or lying.

wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:20:52 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:33:51 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

"Godspeed" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 05:43:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The well guy said he never "fixes" leaking water tanks. Said it's like
fixing a radiator on a car. Plug one spot and the hole opens up somewhere
else.
Sounds to me like he is incompetent. The only radiator I ever fixed, stayed
fixed.

That a pretty small sample.


Ok, how about this? I've had HUNDREDS of radiators repaired over the
last 30+ years and not a one of them ever developed a leak in another spot.

Ok, how about this? If they sprang the leaks you repaired at an
advanced age, due to corrosion rather than physical damage from
something hitting them, you are either mistaken or lying.


if the 'advanced age' or corrosion were a problem, then any *GOOD*
radiator man would not repair it. And mine doesn't. He'll recommend a
new core at about half the price of a new radiator.

This works when bottom is rusting and becoming thin: Fill the bottom with concrete at least six inches deep. After the concrete dries throughly, then you can apply a "Rubberize it" coating to the concrete and where the concrete meets the sides. "Rubberize it" is available on EBay. According to the manufacturer, this product is good for potable water repairs.

A man who ran a water works told me this solution when bottom of a steel tank has rusting, becomes thin and begins to seep: Fill the bottom with concrete at least six inches deep. After the concrete dries throughly, then you can apply a "Rubberize it" coating to the concrete and where the concrete meets the sides. "Rubberize it" is available on EBay. According to the manufacturer, this product is good for potable water repairs.Hope this will help you

If the leakage is from different places at the bottom, then the best way to stop the leakage is either to get fix one steel plate as of the same size at the bottom or change the bottom with new one and this will certainly solve your problem. http://www.greatbasinindustrial.com/...nd-alterations

No idea on stopping your leak, but I'm curious about your water quality.

Water goes bad when it sits around. It grows bacteria, slime, all sorts of nasty stuff.

In your setup the bottom third of at least one tank never drains. Sounds like a recipe for a fungus amongus.

Do you disinfect anywhere? I wouldn't have any qualms about drinking well water direct from the well, provided there's no local contamination. Water that sits in a storage tank is a different story.

On Tuesday, January 12, 2010 at 10:17:04 PM UTC-8, Godspeed wrote:
Anyone know how to fix a leaking 5000 gallon steel water tank on a concrete
pad?

One of two tanks is leaking from the bottom. Not much, but enough to keep
the concrete always wet (which likely is rusting it out even more).

I can't figure out how one would go about fixing this kind of leak.

find and weld the leak if you cant try to put self leveling cement on the bottom about 4 inches ,this is not a lifetime fix

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:55:00 -0700, vicshandyhands wrote:

On Tuesday, January 12, 2010 at 10:17:04 PM UTC-8, Godspeed wrote:
Anyone know how to fix a leaking 5000 gallon steel water tank on a
concrete pad?

One of two tanks is leaking from the bottom. Not much, but enough to
keep the concrete always wet (which likely is rusting it out even
more).

I can't figure out how one would go about fixing this kind of leak.

find and weld the leak if you cant try to put self leveling cement on
the bottom about 4 inches ,this is not a lifetime fix

It doesn't matter. In the *SEVEN YEARS* since "Godspeed" wrote his
message, the tank rusted out and leaked dry. No fix is necessary now.

Sam Hill posted for all of us...



On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:55:00 -0700, vicshandyhands wrote:

On Tuesday, January 12, 2010 at 10:17:04 PM UTC-8, Godspeed wrote:
Anyone know how to fix a leaking 5000 gallon steel water tank on a
concrete pad?

One of two tanks is leaking from the bottom. Not much, but enough to
keep the concrete always wet (which likely is rusting it out even
more).

I can't figure out how one would go about fixing this kind of leak.

find and weld the leak if you cant try to put self leveling cement on
the bottom about 4 inches ,this is not a lifetime fix

It doesn't matter. In the *SEVEN YEARS* since "Godspeed" wrote his
message, the tank rusted out and leaked dry. No fix is necessary now.

It was a shower for the gerbils. They left after the head gerbil wished them
Godspeed.

--
Tekkie