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Default elbows in underground water pipe

Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. That's what he had before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. Is that the best way to brace an
elbow undeground?
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

On Jan 12, 3:27*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. *His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. *That's what he had before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. *Is that the best way to brace an
elbow undeground?


I can think of a lot of things, tie the posts together with strap,
just strap the 2 legs of pipe making a triangle, use something
threaded for the joints, glue it properly to begin with......
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

With the proper primer and glue, joints aren't supposed to
come apart. I don't think, anyway.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a
2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. His
solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. That's what he had
before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint
could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. Is that the best way
to brace an
elbow undeground?


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Default elbows in underground water pipe

On Jan 12, 3:27*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. *His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. *That's what he had before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. *Is that the best way to brace an
elbow undeground?


The guys in my area use bags of premixed concrete for 8"
underground irrigation pipe. Pressure won't exceed 80 psi probably.
Most often it stays under 50.
They just put the bags in around the elbow. The pipe is 5' deep or
maybe a little more. It might work to put a partial bag around the
pipe you described. Tamping it in around the elbow would help.
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

On Jan 12, 1:27*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. *His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. *That's what he had before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. *Is that the best way to brace an
elbow undeground?



A properly glued joint will easily withstand the force assoicated with
"normal / reasonable" flow levels in "small diameter" piping.

Unless the flows in this system in the 100's of gpm the elbow forces
will be small.

High flow rates and / or large diameter pipes can require a "thrust
block" but I seriously doubt a 2" line would need one or if it needed
one, that a "stake in sandy soil" would do the job.

Do oyu have any idea what the flow is?

cheers
Bob



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Default elbows in underground water pipe

E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. That's what he had before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. Is that the best way to brace an
elbow undeground?


I'm curious what kind of plastic pipe it is and is it glued, clamped, or
crimped to the elbow?
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

DD_BobK wrote:
On Jan 12, 1:27 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. That's what he had before, and
it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. Is that the best way to brace an
elbow undeground?



A properly glued joint will easily withstand the force assoicated with
"normal / reasonable" flow levels in "small diameter" piping.

Unless the flows in this system in the 100's of gpm the elbow forces
will be small.

High flow rates and / or large diameter pipes can require a "thrust
block" but I seriously doubt a 2" line would need one or if it needed
one, that a "stake in sandy soil" would do the job.

Do oyu have any idea what the flow is?

cheers
Bob

I don't know the flow, but it feeds an office with one dentist 200 yards
up the road. Halfway, there's a tee that feeds an office across the
road. I don't recall seeing more than two cars there. Static pressure
is about 40 psi.

I wonder if suddenly shutting the water off might have broken the
connection.
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

Tony wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.

He said water pressure had separated the joint. His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. That's what he had before,
and it failed.

It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. Is that the best way to brace
an elbow undeground?


I'm curious what kind of plastic pipe it is and is it glued, clamped, or
crimped to the elbow?


I saw only that the plastic is white. The original was apparently
glued. What if the pipe was wet when they glued it years ago? They
clamped a copper elbow in place of the plastic one.
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

On Jan 13, 1:20*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
Tony wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.


He said water pressure had separated the joint. *His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. *That's what he had before,
and it failed.


It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. *Is that the best way to brace
an elbow undeground?


I'm curious what kind of plastic pipe it is and is it glued, clamped, or
crimped to the elbow?


I saw only that the plastic is white. *The original was apparently
glued. *What if the pipe was wet when they glued it years ago? *They
clamped a copper elbow in place of the plastic one.


Clear about 6 inches in all directions around the elbow and fill it
with cement.
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

E Z Peaces wrote:
....
I wonder if suddenly shutting the water off might have broken the
connection.


Back on more likely than off but given general US weather patterns I'd
wonder if a cold snap didn't have an effect.

--


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Default elbows in underground water pipe

On Jan 13, 10:26*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 13, 1:20*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:



Tony wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.


He said water pressure had separated the joint. *His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. *That's what he had before,
and it failed.


It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. *Is that the best way to brace
an elbow undeground?


I'm curious what kind of plastic pipe it is and is it glued, clamped, or
crimped to the elbow?


I saw only that the plastic is white. *The original was apparently
glued. *What if the pipe was wet when they glued it years ago? *They
clamped a copper elbow in place of the plastic one.


Clear about 6 inches in all directions around the elbow and fill it
with cement.


Concreting completely around an elbow in 2" line with 40 psi static
pressure is totally unnecessary, the wrong solution here. Even if a
thrust block was required, completely encasing the fitting is frowned
upon.

If water hammer is a potential problem, better to mitigate with a
properly sized and installed water hammer arrestor than "brute forcing
it" with concrete.

Thrust blocks are generally not needed for piping below 4"...plus 40
psi static pressure is a pretty wimpy system.

My bet is on a bad glue joint.

cheers
Bob

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Default elbows in underground water pipe

DD_BobK wrote:
On Jan 13, 10:26 am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 13, 1:20 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:



Tony wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.
He said water pressure had separated the joint. His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. That's what he had before,
and it failed.
It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. Is that the best way to brace
an elbow undeground?
I'm curious what kind of plastic pipe it is and is it glued, clamped, or
crimped to the elbow?
I saw only that the plastic is white. The original was apparently
glued. What if the pipe was wet when they glued it years ago? They
clamped a copper elbow in place of the plastic one.

Clear about 6 inches in all directions around the elbow and fill it
with cement.


Concreting completely around an elbow in 2" line with 40 psi static
pressure is totally unnecessary, the wrong solution here. Even if a
thrust block was required, completely encasing the fitting is frowned
upon.

If water hammer is a potential problem, better to mitigate with a
properly sized and installed water hammer arrestor than "brute forcing
it" with concrete.

Thrust blocks are generally not needed for piping below 4"...plus 40
psi static pressure is a pretty wimpy system.

My bet is on a bad glue joint.

cheers
Bob


That sounds right. Maybe he didn't reglue it because he couldn't get it
dry with water continually trickling out. (I wonder how a pro would
have reglued it.) Maybe he has seen a lot of glued joints break in this
town because a lot of underground joints were glued badly.
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Default elbows in underground water pipe

On Jan 13, 9:55*pm, DD_BobK wrote:
On Jan 13, 10:26*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jan 13, 1:20*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:


Tony wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Today I saw the town maintenance man repair the elbow in a 2" plastic
water pipe, two feet deep in sandy soil.


He said water pressure had separated the joint. *His solution was a
steel stake on either side of the joint. *That's what he had before,
and it failed.


It seems to me that enough pressure to separate a joint could also, in
time, move a stake in wet, sandy soil. *Is that the best way to brace
an elbow undeground?


I'm curious what kind of plastic pipe it is and is it glued, clamped, or
crimped to the elbow?


I saw only that the plastic is white. *The original was apparently
glued. *What if the pipe was wet when they glued it years ago? *They
clamped a copper elbow in place of the plastic one.


Clear about 6 inches in all directions around the elbow and fill it
with cement.


Concreting *completely around an elbow in 2" line with 40 psi static
pressure is totally unnecessary, the wrong solution here. *Even if a
thrust block was required, completely encasing the fitting is frowned
upon.

If water hammer is a potential problem, better to mitigate with a
properly sized and installed water hammer arrestor than "brute forcing
it" with concrete.

Thrust blocks are generally not needed for piping below 4"...plus 40
psi static pressure is a pretty wimpy system.

My bet is on a bad glue joint.

cheers
Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I was going for fast and simple. Beats digging it up every 6 months.
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