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#81
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 03:51:55 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote: Exception No. 2: GFCI protection is not required for a receptacle on a dedicated branch circuit located and identified for a specific cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a sump pump. Yeah these are the old rules. Most of the exceptions have been eliminated in the 2011 and 2014 code updates. I dont have the recent code so I cant know for sure if this Exemption was eliminated. And I did work for an electrician years ago, so I do support following the code. But I think the code has gone overboard in recent years and some of their rules are senseless nit-picking, and a few are downright wrong. If a GFCI is now required on a sump pump, THIS is WRONG..... Granted, safety for people should come above and beyond protecting property, but there are situations where they need to look at common sense. This is one of them. A person is more likely to get electrocuted in a flooded basement, than one that is not flooded, because a sump pump is keeping the basement dry. When I lived in a house that had a sump pump, I ALWAYS UNPLUGGED IT, when I was doing maintanance on it, such as cleaning the pit. Whenever an electrical cord enters water, a person should uplug the cord before contacting the water. That's just common sense. Yet, it seems our schools dont teach stuff like that anymore, and we now live in a society full of idiots..... That apparently is why the code keps getting changed. However, there are two instances where I will NOT use a GFCI. A Refrigerator/freezer and a Sump Pump. You can move the fridge to a place that dont require a GFCI, but you cant move a sump pump. However, there are cheating methods. You can get a 14ga (or heavier) extension cord and plug the sump pump into an outlet located on the first floor of the house, rather than in the basement. Or just install a non-GFCI outlet on the ceiling above the pump, label it "SUMP PUMP ONLY - DO NOT UNPLUG", and if the inspectors come, tell them it was like that when you moved in. It's not like they are going to put you in jail for it. The worse they can do is make you install a GFCI. Many inspectors wont even notice it, if your electrical system is in decent shape. I'm not going to risk flooding my basement over a code rule that is not in the best interest, and should be changed..... Sometimes consumers need to speak up as well as electricians when it comes to these codes. Just because it's written in a book, dont mean it's correct.... --- I should make mention that many years ago, I lived in a house that was prone to basement flooding. After a heavy rain, that sump pump ran continuous for days. If it plugged up with debris, or failed for any reason, that basement would quickly flood, and by "flood" I mean it could get as deep as 6 feet of water. (bottom of basement windows). One time there was a power outage, by the time the power company turned the power back on, there was about 5ft of water. When the power came back on, the sump pump did not run, because the wash machine, furnace and other stuff in the basement was under water and had tripped some breakers when the power came back on. The breaker box was in the basement and water was close to that box. There was no way to shut off the power without going into the basement. Swimming thru a flooded basement did not bother me, but doing so in a basement with electric devices under that water did bother me a lot. I went outside, cut the band, and removed the electric meter. Then I swam thru the basement, turned off all breakers, except one for the upstairs. Then I tossed the sump pump cord out a basement window, plugged it into an extension cord, and plugged it in to an upstairs outlet, and replaced the meter. I phoned the power company, told them what I did, and they were understanding. I was glad when I moved from that place. Dealing with the basement flooding was a constant struggle... I dont have a basement now, nor a permanent sump pump. But I do have a portable sump pump that I may occasionally need to pump out the pit where my well pressure tank sits, or other farm related things that need to be pumped out. If I plug that sump pump into a GFCI it trips immediately. Yet the pump works fine. I just mke sure it's plugged into a non-GFCI outlet and dont make bodily contact with the water while it's running. I have checked the pump, it appears normal, but I think a little moisture gets into the switch, which is what causes a GFCI to trip. Otherwise I dont know why it trips the GFCI.... |
#82
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
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#84
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 11:57:41 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote: I can see the sump being on a non-GFCI outlet when no one's home. However, the combination of water, electricity and many times sloppy Chinese pump manufacturing still make me want the protection of a GFCI on anything that contacts groundwater. I would run it a long time "under test" to make sure I could trust it if we were away on vacation. Of course with pedestal style pumps, the electricity is more than a foot above the water, the motor and the swich and anything else. |
#85
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
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#86
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 20:54:37 -0500, Micky
wrote: On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 11:57:41 -0500, "Robert Green" wrote: I can see the sump being on a non-GFCI outlet when no one's home. However, the combination of water, electricity and many times sloppy Chinese pump manufacturing still make me want the protection of a GFCI on anything that contacts groundwater. I would run it a long time "under test" to make sure I could trust it if we were away on vacation. Of course with pedestal style pumps, the electricity is more than a foot above the water, the motor and the swich and anything else. Untill the GFCI trips - - - |
#87
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:34:29 -0500, Micky
wrote: On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:07:56 -0600, wrote: Or just install a non-GFCI outlet on the ceiling On the ceiling? Why the ceiling? That's 7 feet from my pump. above the pump, label it "SUMP PUMP ONLY - DO NOT UNPLUG", and if the inspectors come, tell them it was like that when you moved in. Very common proctice - to keep it out of the wet, prevent other loads from being connected to the circuit, and prevent having to rout cords across the floor and up walls to an outlet. |
#88
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Sump pumps -- GFCI required?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 22:02:30 -0500, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:34:29 -0500, Micky wrote: On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:07:56 -0600, wrote: Or just install a non-GFCI outlet on the ceiling On the ceiling? Why the ceiling? That's 7 feet from my pump. above the pump, label it "SUMP PUMP ONLY - DO NOT UNPLUG", and if the inspectors come, tell them it was like that when you moved in. Very common proctice - to keep it out of the wet, prevent other loads from being connected to the circuit, and prevent having to rout cords across the floor and up walls to an outlet. Okay, if you say so. Our basement when I was little was wet a lot and the big room wasn't used for anything. I wonder if it has a sump pump yet, or if they did anythign to keep it dry in the first place. |
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