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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 11:31:27 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/29/2017 10:23 AM, wrote:

Okay I own a tanning salon. I currently have a 200amp box. All the beds run on 230.

Is it ever possible in any way to run 225 amps of beds at the same time? Can I put a bigger main breaker box for example? I just need a smidge more amps and cant really afford or justify changing the entire service over 20-25 more amps. At most I would only be at that 225 max amp draw for 15 mins at a time etc.

Current Bed configuration:

Bed #1 = 20amp draw
Bed #2 = 20amp draw
Bed #3 = 55amp draw
Bed #4 = 55amp draw
Bed #5 = 20amp draw
Bed #6 = 20amp draw
-----------------------------
Current total amp draw from beds = 190 amp draw


Everything works fine with this configuration but I want to REMOVE a 20amp draw bed and replace it with a 55amp draw bed, which will make the new amp draw 225amps at any point where all 6 beds happen to be turned on at the same time. Just find it hard to believe that my only option would be to have the city re run a total new service over 25 amps.

Can this be done and if so can it be done safely?


I find it hard to believe too. The city does not do that stuff, the
electric company does. Or you do, depending on what has to be replaced.


That depends - in some areas the city IS the power company. (or at
least owns it)

If you don't want to upgrade, there are work-arounds. the first step is
to check your fire insurance coverage. Get business interruption
insurance too. Check fire exits for the safety of your customers
running out from those beds too. Tell them to keep a robe at hand in
case of evacuation. Oh, unless you have a stand alone building check
what liability you have if the neighbors burn too.

Can you put in a bigger main breaker? That is determined by the wire
size feeding the panel and the rating of the panel.


In commercial buildings often the feed can handle a much larger panel
- and occaisionally a panel can handle a bigger breaker - but you
cannot legally install a larger breaker than the panel is rated for,
even if it will physically fit.

You really need an evaluation by an electrician to see what real draw is
and what potential you have.

I find it a bit surprising that people still expose themselves to
potential side affects from tanning. Do you refer the customers to a
cancer doctor for their melanoma?


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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 14:07:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/29/2017 1:43 PM, trader_4 wrote:


Breakers so not trip at execrtally the marked value as pointed out. The
200 amp breaker may carry 201 amps for many hours and never trip, or it
may trip at 295 amps after a week.


From the typical curves I've seen, a 200A breaker will trip in minutes
or less at 295.


I'm thinking that was a typo and should have been 205.

More likely it was supposed to read 195.
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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 4:27:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:41:30 -0500, wrote:

Can this be done and if so can it be done safely?

You might get away with it if you have no lights or other loads.
Better buy a battery operated clock!!


And dont forget some heavy loads such as an electric water heater, any
electric heating or cooling devices, electric range (if these is living
space in this same building), etc.

The existing 200A breaker box does not necessaily need to be replaced,
they could add a secondary box, such as a 100A box, which could be used
to power the new bed, as well as all the other stuff like lighting and
so on. That may or may not require a separate service entrance and maybe
a second meter. Also the pole transformer may need to be upgraded.

Something like this, really needs a licensed electrician to look over,
and determine the best solution.

I do question how often the OP actually uses all these beds at the same
time??? But I dont know anything about this sort of business. (I'm glad
I dont have to pay the electric bill though)....


All you need to know is that having all the lights go out at
a business like that doesn't have to happen often to be big trouble.
But I did suggest getting the breaker trip curve, so he can
get an idea of how long he could be at 225A before it trips.


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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:24:46 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:41:30 -0500,
wrote:

Can this be done and if so can it be done safely?

You might get away with it if you have no lights or other loads.
Better buy a battery operated clock!!


And dont forget some heavy loads such as an electric water heater, any
electric heating or cooling devices, electric range (if these is living
space in this same building), etc.

The existing 200A breaker box does not necessaily need to be replaced,
they could add a secondary box, such as a 100A box, which could be used
to power the new bed, as well as all the other stuff like lighting and
so on. That may or may not require a separate service entrance and maybe
a second meter. Also the pole transformer may need to be upgraded.

Something like this, really needs a licensed electrician to look over,
and determine the best solution.

I do question how often the OP actually uses all these beds at the same
time??? But I dont know anything about this sort of business. (I'm glad
I dont have to pay the electric bill though)....


He won't get a second meter but they could set a gutter on the load
side of the meter, tap off another 100a and rock on.
Then the PoCo would have to come up with a 320a meter and heavy up the
service cables and heavy up the transformer if necessary. The owner
puts in the SE cable from the service point to the gutter.
That will also trigger another ground electrode conductor from the new
panel.

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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 6:04:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 17:52:20 -0500, wrote:

He won't get a second meter but they could set a gutter on the load
side of the meter, tap off another 100a and rock on.
Then the PoCo would have to come up with a 320a meter and heavy up the
service cables and heavy up the transformer if necessary. The owner
puts in the SE cable from the service point to the gutter.
That will also trigger another ground electrode conductor from the new
panel.


I know a lot about electrical, but you lost me on the "gutter" thing.
Can you either explain or provide a URL to some photos.


Here's an example of what they look like:


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wiegmann-...24RC/202097235

It's essentially a rectangular metal box where you can bring
the service in, then wire it over to two or more panels.
They do that here for big houses that have a 300A service,
for example. Put the gutter in between two 150A panels.

Gfre was suggesting that the OP could add a second panel
that way and it's probably the most cost effective way,
assuming the existing can't go over 200A.
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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:17:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

Here's an example of what they look like:


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wiegmann-...24RC/202097235

It's essentially a rectangular metal box where you can bring
the service in, then wire it over to two or more panels.
They do that here for big houses that have a 300A service,
for example. Put the gutter in between two 150A panels.

Gfre was suggesting that the OP could add a second panel
that way and it's probably the most cost effective way,
assuming the existing can't go over 200A.


OK, Thanks...
I've seen those in use on some commercial buildings. I never knew what
they were called though...



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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 16:39:41 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:46:51 -0500,
wrote:

From the typical curves I've seen, a 200A breaker will trip in minutes
or less at 295.


I'm thinking that was a typo and should have been 205.

More likely it was supposed to read 195.


Why would a 200a breaker ever trip with 195a?

After a long time at full load, if the ambient temperature increases,
it CAN trip below the rated current. Since all of the breakers contain
thermal trip mechanisms, they do produce heat - so if the box cannot
shed the extra heat, it will get warm. If it gets warm enough the main
breaker is de-rated.

All of the breakers are supposed to be de-rated to 80% for continuous
load - so a 30 amp breaker should not be loaded above about 25 amps
continuous load.

I know there is a lot of conroversy over the 125% load calculation
(which is effectively an 80% load limit) - but if he is loading every
breaker to 100% of it's rated protection current, and the total
current ratings of the breakers in use = 100% of the main breaker
rating, he's REALLY pushing things. If he has a 100% load rated main
breaker in a 100% rated enclosure, the extra heat is being dissipated
and accounted for - but you can be pretty well assured he does NOT
have a 100% rated enclosure and the panel is likely inside a closet
where it does not shed heat effectively.
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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:12:45 -0800 (PST)
trader_4 wrote:


I believe they




It just depends

I tend to doubt


So you don't know jack do you??
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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

wrote in message
...
Okay I own a tanning salon. I currently have a 200amp box. All the beds run
on 230.
Is it ever possible in any way to run 225 amps of beds at the same time? Can
I put a bigger main breaker box for example? I just need a smidge more amps
and cant really afford or justify changing the entire service over 20-25
more amps. At most I would only be at that 225 max amp draw for 15 mins at a
time etc.
Current Bed configuration:
Bed #1 = 20amp draw
Bed #2 = 20amp draw
Bed #3 = 55amp draw
Bed #4 = 55amp draw
Bed #5 = 20amp draw
Bed #6 = 20amp draw
-----------------------------
Current total amp draw from beds = 190 amp draw
Everything works fine with this configuration but I want to REMOVE a 20amp
draw bed and replace it with a 55amp draw bed, which will make the new amp
draw 225amps at any point where all 6 beds happen to be turned on at the
same time. Just find it hard to believe that my only option would be to have
the city re run a total new service over 25 amps.
Can this be done and if so can it be done safely?


First of all you need to check your supply source flocculation, a voltage if
flocculate and amperage with reliable accurate instruments.
Do not forget that some lamps can use more power then the other,
Incandescent, Florescent, Mercury, ETC. It should not be a much difference
but you should know it sense you are having problems, check with
manufacture. You also have current differences on different beds, you need
to check that all phases are properly load balanced!!!
You have being giving many Ideas and all circuit breakers operate putty
close same unless are design for Motors safety which can be fix time or in
some cases even Variable. Fix rating usual load should not exceed more
then 90% of its settings for reliable operation. In any case you should
have fast blow fuses for your lamps individually and not circuit breakers.



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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote:
This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is.

If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many
amps of service can that panel actually service?

I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember
something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of
service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service
split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box).


How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code??
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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On 03/25/2017 10:10 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote:





LOOK AT THE DATE

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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:24:27 -0500, philo wrote:

On 03/25/2017 10:10 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote:


LOOK AT THE DATE


The last question was simply tacked on to a 10 year old thread. It was
posted today
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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On 03/25/2017 04:45 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

[snip]

How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code??


Are there any 50 amp receptacles even made for 120 volts ?


http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=4789

Sounds like what you'd use for an electric stove. A restaurant might
have 12 of them.

If so , there is probably not a limit on the number.


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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 17:45:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote:
This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is.

If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many
amps of service can that panel actually service?

I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember
something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of
service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service
split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box).


How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code??


Are there any 50 amp receptacles even made for 120 volts ?


Nema 5-50


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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 6:23:37 PM UTC-4, notX wrote:
On 03/25/2017 04:45 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

[snip]

How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code??


Are there any 50 amp receptacles even made for 120 volts ?


http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=4789

Sounds like what you'd use for an electric stove. A restaurant might
have 12 of them.

If so , there is probably not a limit on the number.


I have yet to see a 120V real stove, let alone a stove for a restaurant.
Every restaurant I've seen also uses gas. Whatever a 50A, 120V
receptacle is used for, it's not something common. And of course
the OP didn't say either.
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On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 8:51:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps


That would be a 240 watt bulb.



so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill


eleven 100 watt bulbs would pull 9 amps, not 22. And 22 amps would trip a
20 amp breaker.

Other than that, did you have a point?

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On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:51:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill


You really need a load calc. Just counting up the breaker handles is
pretty meaningless. You will never have every breaker running at
capacity. It is called load diversity.

A load calc is basically adding up all of your fixed in place
equipment and adding 4500 VA for the kitchen and laundry
Then you do 3 VA per square foot of general lighting load and take the
first 3000VA at 100% and the rest of the general lighting load at 35%


Short hand for that is 7500 VA for the first 1000 square feet of your
house and 1 VA for every square foot over that (really 1.05 but harder
to count on your fingers), then add your fixed in place equipment.
Electric dryer at 5KVA, electric range/ovens at 8kva, HVAC (using the
larger load of heat or air) and any other big stuff you may have.
Divide the total VA by 240 and you get the service size.

If you look around, there are spreadsheets on the net where you just
plug in the numbers and get the service size.
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On 12/13/2017 10:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 8:51:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps


That would be a 240 watt bulb.



so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill


eleven 100 watt bulbs would pull 9 amps, not 22. And 22 amps would trip a
20 amp breaker.

Other than that, did you have a point?


I'm wondering what is going on in the Master Bedroom with eleven 200
watt bulbs. Movie production?


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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'm wondering what is going on in the Master Bedroom with eleven 200
watt bulbs. Movie production?


Marijuana production?

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On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 9:02:51 AM UTC-7, JayB wrote:
This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is.

If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many
amps of service can that panel actually service?

I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember
something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of
service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service
split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box).


question. if your only supplying a transformer with a 100amp 480v wire is it possible to get 200amps 208v on the secondary of that transformer?


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Default Load capacity of 200-amp panel

replying to terry, Hank Jochade wrote:
Well if one leg is +120 and the other leg is -120 then they ARE 180 degrees
out of phase

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for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...el-401767-.htm


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replying to usenet-659f31de7f953aeb, James wrote:
jeez you're helpful. Dont' answer if you're going to be condescending.

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for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...el-401767-.htm


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