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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 11:31:27 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/29/2017 10:23 AM, wrote: Okay I own a tanning salon. I currently have a 200amp box. All the beds run on 230. Is it ever possible in any way to run 225 amps of beds at the same time? Can I put a bigger main breaker box for example? I just need a smidge more amps and cant really afford or justify changing the entire service over 20-25 more amps. At most I would only be at that 225 max amp draw for 15 mins at a time etc. Current Bed configuration: Bed #1 = 20amp draw Bed #2 = 20amp draw Bed #3 = 55amp draw Bed #4 = 55amp draw Bed #5 = 20amp draw Bed #6 = 20amp draw ----------------------------- Current total amp draw from beds = 190 amp draw Everything works fine with this configuration but I want to REMOVE a 20amp draw bed and replace it with a 55amp draw bed, which will make the new amp draw 225amps at any point where all 6 beds happen to be turned on at the same time. Just find it hard to believe that my only option would be to have the city re run a total new service over 25 amps. Can this be done and if so can it be done safely? I find it hard to believe too. The city does not do that stuff, the electric company does. Or you do, depending on what has to be replaced. That depends - in some areas the city IS the power company. (or at least owns it) If you don't want to upgrade, there are work-arounds. the first step is to check your fire insurance coverage. Get business interruption insurance too. Check fire exits for the safety of your customers running out from those beds too. Tell them to keep a robe at hand in case of evacuation. Oh, unless you have a stand alone building check what liability you have if the neighbors burn too. Can you put in a bigger main breaker? That is determined by the wire size feeding the panel and the rating of the panel. In commercial buildings often the feed can handle a much larger panel - and occaisionally a panel can handle a bigger breaker - but you cannot legally install a larger breaker than the panel is rated for, even if it will physically fit. You really need an evaluation by an electrician to see what real draw is and what potential you have. I find it a bit surprising that people still expose themselves to potential side affects from tanning. Do you refer the customers to a cancer doctor for their melanoma? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 14:07:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/29/2017 1:43 PM, trader_4 wrote: Breakers so not trip at execrtally the marked value as pointed out. The 200 amp breaker may carry 201 amps for many hours and never trip, or it may trip at 295 amps after a week. From the typical curves I've seen, a 200A breaker will trip in minutes or less at 295. I'm thinking that was a typo and should have been 205. More likely it was supposed to read 195. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 4:27:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:41:30 -0500, wrote: Can this be done and if so can it be done safely? You might get away with it if you have no lights or other loads. Better buy a battery operated clock!! And dont forget some heavy loads such as an electric water heater, any electric heating or cooling devices, electric range (if these is living space in this same building), etc. The existing 200A breaker box does not necessaily need to be replaced, they could add a secondary box, such as a 100A box, which could be used to power the new bed, as well as all the other stuff like lighting and so on. That may or may not require a separate service entrance and maybe a second meter. Also the pole transformer may need to be upgraded. Something like this, really needs a licensed electrician to look over, and determine the best solution. I do question how often the OP actually uses all these beds at the same time??? But I dont know anything about this sort of business. (I'm glad I dont have to pay the electric bill though).... All you need to know is that having all the lights go out at a business like that doesn't have to happen often to be big trouble. But I did suggest getting the breaker trip curve, so he can get an idea of how long he could be at 225A before it trips. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:24:46 -0600, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:41:30 -0500, wrote: Can this be done and if so can it be done safely? You might get away with it if you have no lights or other loads. Better buy a battery operated clock!! And dont forget some heavy loads such as an electric water heater, any electric heating or cooling devices, electric range (if these is living space in this same building), etc. The existing 200A breaker box does not necessaily need to be replaced, they could add a secondary box, such as a 100A box, which could be used to power the new bed, as well as all the other stuff like lighting and so on. That may or may not require a separate service entrance and maybe a second meter. Also the pole transformer may need to be upgraded. Something like this, really needs a licensed electrician to look over, and determine the best solution. I do question how often the OP actually uses all these beds at the same time??? But I dont know anything about this sort of business. (I'm glad I dont have to pay the electric bill though).... He won't get a second meter but they could set a gutter on the load side of the meter, tap off another 100a and rock on. Then the PoCo would have to come up with a 320a meter and heavy up the service cables and heavy up the transformer if necessary. The owner puts in the SE cable from the service point to the gutter. That will also trigger another ground electrode conductor from the new panel. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 6:04:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 17:52:20 -0500, wrote: He won't get a second meter but they could set a gutter on the load side of the meter, tap off another 100a and rock on. Then the PoCo would have to come up with a 320a meter and heavy up the service cables and heavy up the transformer if necessary. The owner puts in the SE cable from the service point to the gutter. That will also trigger another ground electrode conductor from the new panel. I know a lot about electrical, but you lost me on the "gutter" thing. Can you either explain or provide a URL to some photos. Here's an example of what they look like: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wiegmann-...24RC/202097235 It's essentially a rectangular metal box where you can bring the service in, then wire it over to two or more panels. They do that here for big houses that have a 300A service, for example. Put the gutter in between two 150A panels. Gfre was suggesting that the OP could add a second panel that way and it's probably the most cost effective way, assuming the existing can't go over 200A. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:17:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote: Here's an example of what they look like: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wiegmann-...24RC/202097235 It's essentially a rectangular metal box where you can bring the service in, then wire it over to two or more panels. They do that here for big houses that have a 300A service, for example. Put the gutter in between two 150A panels. Gfre was suggesting that the OP could add a second panel that way and it's probably the most cost effective way, assuming the existing can't go over 200A. OK, Thanks... I've seen those in use on some commercial buildings. I never knew what they were called though... |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
In article ,
says... On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:46:51 -0500, wrote: From the typical curves I've seen, a 200A breaker will trip in minutes or less at 295. I'm thinking that was a typo and should have been 205. More likely it was supposed to read 195. Why would a 200a breaker ever trip with 195a? Several reasons. It could be old and tripped several times and gotten weak, if in a very hot place, due to the tollorance when it was made. Most breakers for the home work on heat. It just depends on how long it takes to heat up. If in a very hot place it may trip after a week or so if it has slightly below the rated current through it, or it may never trip if in a cool place and has slightly more than the rated current. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 16:39:41 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:46:51 -0500, wrote: From the typical curves I've seen, a 200A breaker will trip in minutes or less at 295. I'm thinking that was a typo and should have been 205. More likely it was supposed to read 195. Why would a 200a breaker ever trip with 195a? After a long time at full load, if the ambient temperature increases, it CAN trip below the rated current. Since all of the breakers contain thermal trip mechanisms, they do produce heat - so if the box cannot shed the extra heat, it will get warm. If it gets warm enough the main breaker is de-rated. All of the breakers are supposed to be de-rated to 80% for continuous load - so a 30 amp breaker should not be loaded above about 25 amps continuous load. I know there is a lot of conroversy over the 125% load calculation (which is effectively an 80% load limit) - but if he is loading every breaker to 100% of it's rated protection current, and the total current ratings of the breakers in use = 100% of the main breaker rating, he's REALLY pushing things. If he has a 100% load rated main breaker in a 100% rated enclosure, the extra heat is being dissipated and accounted for - but you can be pretty well assured he does NOT have a 100% rated enclosure and the panel is likely inside a closet where it does not shed heat effectively. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 8:01:31 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:46:51 -0500, wrote: From the typical curves I've seen, a 200A breaker will trip in minutes or less at 295. I'm thinking that was a typo and should have been 205. More likely it was supposed to read 195. Why would a 200a breaker ever trip with 195a? Several reasons. It could be old and tripped several times and gotten weak, if in a very hot place, due to the tollorance when it was made. Most breakers for the home work on heat. I believe they actually work on both heat and magnetically. Heat is the tripping mechanism for loads that exceed the limit by a modest amount. Magnetically, they trip in milliseconds from a severe overload. It just depends on how long it takes to heat up. If in a very hot place it may trip after a week or so if it has slightly below the rated current through it, or it may never trip if in a cool place and has slightly more than the rated current. I tend to doubt that it's going to take a week to trip. Whatever final temp the breaker winds up at, it's going to get there in a few hours. If it doesn't trip then, seems unlikely it's going to trip a week later, unless the ambient temp increases. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:12:45 -0800 (PST)
trader_4 wrote: I believe they It just depends I tend to doubt So you don't know jack do you?? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
wrote in message
... Okay I own a tanning salon. I currently have a 200amp box. All the beds run on 230. Is it ever possible in any way to run 225 amps of beds at the same time? Can I put a bigger main breaker box for example? I just need a smidge more amps and cant really afford or justify changing the entire service over 20-25 more amps. At most I would only be at that 225 max amp draw for 15 mins at a time etc. Current Bed configuration: Bed #1 = 20amp draw Bed #2 = 20amp draw Bed #3 = 55amp draw Bed #4 = 55amp draw Bed #5 = 20amp draw Bed #6 = 20amp draw ----------------------------- Current total amp draw from beds = 190 amp draw Everything works fine with this configuration but I want to REMOVE a 20amp draw bed and replace it with a 55amp draw bed, which will make the new amp draw 225amps at any point where all 6 beds happen to be turned on at the same time. Just find it hard to believe that my only option would be to have the city re run a total new service over 25 amps. Can this be done and if so can it be done safely? First of all you need to check your supply source flocculation, a voltage if flocculate and amperage with reliable accurate instruments. Do not forget that some lamps can use more power then the other, Incandescent, Florescent, Mercury, ETC. It should not be a much difference but you should know it sense you are having problems, check with manufacture. You also have current differences on different beds, you need to check that all phases are properly load balanced!!! You have being giving many Ideas and all circuit breakers operate putty close same unless are design for Motors safety which can be fix time or in some cases even Variable. Fix rating usual load should not exceed more then 90% of its settings for reliable operation. In any case you should have fast blow fuses for your lamps individually and not circuit breakers. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote:
This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is. If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many amps of service can that panel actually service? I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box). How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code?? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On 03/25/2017 10:10 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote: LOOK AT THE DATE |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:24:27 -0500, philo wrote:
On 03/25/2017 10:10 AM, wrote: On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote: LOOK AT THE DATE The last question was simply tacked on to a 10 year old thread. It was posted today |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On 03/25/2017 04:45 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
[snip] How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code?? Are there any 50 amp receptacles even made for 120 volts ? http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=4789 Sounds like what you'd use for an electric stove. A restaurant might have 12 of them. If so , there is probably not a limit on the number. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:59:17 -0000, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:10:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote: This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is. If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many amps of service can that panel actually service? I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box). How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code?? It is not about "receptacles", it is about calculated load. What are you plugging in? The simple answer would be 12 (4 per phase) but that is not really a code driven answer. **** the code, use maths. -- Even very young children need to be informed about dying. Explain the concept of death very carefully to your child. This will make threatening him with it much more effective. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 17:45:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 11:02:51 AM UTC-5, JayB wrote: This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is. If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many amps of service can that panel actually service? I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box). How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code?? Are there any 50 amp receptacles even made for 120 volts ? Nema 5-50 |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 6:23:37 PM UTC-4, notX wrote:
On 03/25/2017 04:45 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: [snip] How many 50A, 120 Volt receptacles can be on a 200 amp 120/208V 3 phase panel per code?? Are there any 50 amp receptacles even made for 120 volts ? http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=4789 Sounds like what you'd use for an electric stove. A restaurant might have 12 of them. If so , there is probably not a limit on the number. I have yet to see a 120V real stove, let alone a stove for a restaurant. Every restaurant I've seen also uses gas. Whatever a 50A, 120V receptacle is used for, it's not something common. And of course the OP didn't say either. |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 8:51:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps That would be a 240 watt bulb. so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill eleven 100 watt bulbs would pull 9 amps, not 22. And 22 amps would trip a 20 amp breaker. Other than that, did you have a point? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On 12/13/2017 10:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 8:51:42 PM UTC-5, wrote: Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps That would be a 240 watt bulb. so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill eleven 100 watt bulbs would pull 9 amps, not 22. And 22 amps would trip a 20 amp breaker. Other than that, did you have a point? I'm wondering what is going on in the Master Bedroom with eleven 200 watt bulbs. Movie production? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
Bob posted for all of us...
On 12/13/2017 08:51 PM, wrote: Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill I have approximately 80 LED light bulbs inside/outside my house. Turning them all on at once would only draw around 900 watts or 7.5 amps.* The heaviest electrical load is caused by a couple EnergyStar refrigerators and an 18 seer central air unit.* All other appliances are natural gas.* I have a 200 amp panel/service but it is overkill. Thanks for that. We will notify the power co. to add to the bill. If you want economy; you have to pay for it (saying by car salesman). -- Tekkie |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'm wondering what is going on in the Master Bedroom with eleven 200 watt bulbs. Movie production? Marijuana production? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On 12/14/2017 4:46 PM, Tekkie wrote:
Bob posted for all of us... On 12/13/2017 08:51 PM, wrote: Wow need a load calculation. Just to put my 2 cents in 8 years after this convo started I have 200 amp service but a calculated load (adding amperage from each individual breaker) of 610 amps. You have to take into consideration at least in my panel I have 6 separate 20 amp single pole breakers for light fixtures and outlets in individual rooms of my home. Just consider a light bulb it might pull 2 amps so 1 20 amp breaker for the master bedroom would allow me to have approximately 11 100 watt light bulbs on at once in a 625 SQ foot room....pulling approx 22 amps without tripping the breaker. Overkill I have approximately 80 LED light bulbs inside/outside my house. Turning them all on at once would only draw around 900 watts or 7.5 amps.* The heaviest electrical load is caused by a couple EnergyStar refrigerators and an 18 seer central air unit.* All other appliances are natural gas.* I have a 200 amp panel/service but it is overkill. Thanks for that. We will notify the power co. to add to the bill. If you want economy; you have to pay for it (saying by car salesman). My electric bill currently has a dozen below-the-line surcharges totaling ~$40/mo. Are you suggesting they'll soon make it a baker's dozen?* ;-) |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 9:02:51 AM UTC-7, JayB wrote:
This came up elsewhere and I am just curious about what the answer is. If someone has a main service panel with a 200-amp main breaker, how many amps of service can that panel actually service? I am probably not wording this correctly, but I thought that I remember something about a 200-amp main breaker actually being okay for 400 amps of service since there are two separate circuits coming in (a 240-volt service split into two 120-volt circuits in the panel box). question. if your only supplying a transformer with a 100amp 480v wire is it possible to get 200amps 208v on the secondary of that transformer? |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
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Load capacity of 200-amp panel
replying to terry, Hank Jochade wrote:
Well if one leg is +120 and the other leg is -120 then they ARE 180 degrees out of phase -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...el-401767-.htm |
Load capacity of 200-amp panel
replying to usenet-659f31de7f953aeb, James wrote:
jeez you're helpful. Dont' answer if you're going to be condescending. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...el-401767-.htm |
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