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Bernie Hunt[_2_] October 9th 09 06:35 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?

Any suggestions? I have a full woodworking shop, so very little is not
possible. I've just never worked on a stair case with both sides
encapsulated into the stringers before.

Here is a picture of the left and right sides of the stair tread.
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0110.jpg
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0111.jpg

Thanks,
Bernie



jim October 9th 09 01:01 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 2:35*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:
I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?

Any suggestions? I have a full woodworking shop, so very little is not
possible. I've just never worked on a stair case with both sides
encapsulated into the stringers before.

Here is a picture of the left and right sides of the stair tread.http://www.cybertecservices.com/file...s/imag0111.jpg

Thanks,
Bernie


Remove, add some side supports underneath. Fake it and use a good pl
prem / screw and plug.

Mike rock October 9th 09 01:29 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.

aemeijers October 9th 09 02:33 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?

Any suggestions? I have a full woodworking shop, so very little is not
possible. I've just never worked on a stair case with both sides
encapsulated into the stringers before.

Here is a picture of the left and right sides of the stair tread.
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0110.jpg
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0111.jpg

Thanks,
Bernie


Uh, from the pictures, it looks like those things on the side aren't the
actual stringers, they are just trim boards that were applied after the
walls were plastered. Easy check for that would be tapping a thin putty
knife down behind them at the wall surface. They would be a major PITA
to remove without destroying them, however. And unless your local stair
part specialty dealer has matching trim boards, they would also be a
major pain to duplicate. I suppose if you have a woodshop, you could
carve out the trim panel on just the damaged steps, and mill a slightly
oversize short replacement, and patch it back in and putty it, since the
trim looks to be painted.

But having said all that, where are the treads split? Deep in the field,
or at the usual location right above the kerf for the riser in front? If
the latter, injecting glue, and inserting long screws through the nose
of the tread, with dowel plugs to cover, may be enough to save the
existing treads with a lot less work. Look on the 'ask this old house'
web site. A recent rerun episode on one of the cable channels had a demo
of the procedure. Not sure where you would find the stepped drill bit
they used- never seen them at the big-box stores, but I have never
looked for them. One of the woodworking specialty suppliers probably has
them. For a split deep in the field, I'd try injecting glue, and while
you press on the front of the tread somehow, insert long 16d finish
nails or screws at an angle through the ends of the treads, to try and
catch the stringers. How wide are the steps? There should be a stringer
up the middle as well, unless they are narrow. Both of these possible
cures fall into the 'you can't make it any worse' category.

I'd also ask over on rec.woodworking. Traditional fitted staircases like
this count as cabinetry, not carpentry, so they won't chase you away.

Oh, and standard warning about wood staircases being ultra-slippery for
kids wearing socks, and grownups with balance problems, applies. When
you refinish, make sure to go with a finish that doesn't have a slick
surface.

--
aem sends...

dpb October 9th 09 03:40 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?

Any suggestions? I have a full woodworking shop, so very little is not
possible. I've just never worked on a stair case with both sides
encapsulated into the stringers before.

Here is a picture of the left and right sides of the stair tread.
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0110.jpg
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0111.jpg


Show us the damage--my inclination would be as others to repair it
instead as first choice. Unless it's really bad, a glue joint may be
almost indistinguishable and as strong or stronger than the original
wood. (Done lots of antebellum renovations in VA; seen about as bad as
can get, salvaged most...)

--

George October 9th 09 03:40 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 00:35:54 -0400, "Bernie Hunt"
wrote:

I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.


I did this on ours, but from the bottom. Plastering can be a rewarding
experience. Anyway, ...

I glued and screwed a piece of 3/4" plywood into the bottom of the
damaged treads, and then cleated that to the stair frame. (Be sure the
screws don't poke through.) I also screwed the risers into the back of
the treads.

So far (3 yrs), this has held up.

G

DerbyDad03 October 9th 09 03:52 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 9:40*am, George wrote:
On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 00:35:54 -0400, "Bernie Hunt"
wrote:

I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.


I did this on ours, but from the bottom. *Plastering can be a rewarding
experience. *Anyway, ...

I glued and screwed a piece of 3/4" plywood into the bottom of the
damaged treads, and then cleated that to the stair frame. *(Be sure the
screws don't poke through.) *I also screwed the risers into the back of
the treads.

So far (3 yrs), this has held up.

G


Something tells me that if I ever have to get under my stairs to
repair a damaged tread or 2, and then have to replace the drywall/
plaster, I'm gonna add supports under *every* tread so I never have to
go under there again.

All else being equal, if 1 or 2 treads split, I gotta assume others
will. Even if they weren't going to before, they will as soon as I
close up the opening.

God's like that sometimes.

Bernie Hunt[_2_] October 9th 09 05:21 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.

Bernie

"Mike rock" wrote in message
...
Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.




DerbyDad03 October 9th 09 05:55 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 11:21*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:
The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.

Bernie

"Mike rock" wrote in message

...



Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


While I would probably opt for the "fix from below method then
replaster" method, I'll toss out a few other ideas.

Will you be replacing the carpet (wall to wall) leaving the treads
bare, or installing a runner or tread strips?

Replacing the carpet wall to wall opens up options that would be
fairly simple since the tread/wall junction doesn't have to match the
others.

1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Attach some cleats to the wall below
3 - Glue and screw a new tread to the cleats
4 - Cover with carpet to hide the tread/trim junction, or even carpet
the trim.

If you will be leaving the treads bare (or using a runner or carpet
strips) then one possibility for a split that far back is to:

1 - * Drill a series of holes into the face on the tread with a long
bit
2 - Inject glue into the split
3 - Insert and glue some long hardwood dowels
4 - Rig up a clamping system to hold the split closed
5 - Sand the dowel ends (or plug/putty the holes) to finish the
bullnose.

* Obviously the hardest part is drilling straight into the tread while
keeping the drill on the same plane as the tread. Maybe some type of
jig would help with this part of the process.

Another option might be to:

1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Cross-cut a new tread into 2 sections
3 - Glue and screw a piece of hardwood or plywood to the underside of
one section, extending it so it will overlap the cross cut seam.
4 - Insert this section into the dado
5 - Insert the other section into the dado on the other side and slide
both pieces towards each other to the close the seam
6 - Glue and screw the second section to the support piece, obviously
from the top.
7 - Plug/putty the screw holes and cover with a runner or tread
strips.

Obviously the more that the lower support piece extends beyond the
seam, the more glue/screws you can use and the stronger it will be.

jamesgangnc[_3_] October 9th 09 06:40 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 11:55*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 9, 11:21*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:





The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.


Bernie


"Mike rock" wrote in message


....


Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


While I would probably opt for the "fix from below method then
replaster" method, I'll toss out a few other ideas.

Will you be replacing the carpet (wall to wall) leaving the treads
bare, or installing a runner or tread strips?

Replacing the carpet wall to wall opens up options that would be
fairly simple since the tread/wall junction doesn't have to match the
others.

1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Attach some cleats to the wall below
3 - Glue and screw a new tread to the cleats
4 - Cover with carpet to hide the tread/trim junction, or even carpet
the trim.

If you will be leaving the treads bare (or using a runner or carpet
strips) then one possibility for a split that far back is to:

1 - * Drill a series of holes into the face on the tread with a long
bit
2 - Inject glue into the split
3 - Insert and glue some long hardwood dowels
4 - Rig up a clamping system to hold the split closed
5 - Sand the dowel ends (or plug/putty the holes) to finish the
bullnose.

* Obviously the hardest part is drilling straight into the tread while
keeping the drill on the same plane as the tread. Maybe some type of
jig would help with this part of the process.

Another option might be to:

1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Cross-cut a new tread into 2 sections
3 - Glue and screw a piece of hardwood or plywood to the underside of
one section, extending it so it will overlap the cross cut seam.
4 - Insert this section into the dado
5 - Insert the other section into the dado on the other side and slide
both pieces towards each other to the close the seam
6 - Glue and screw the second section to the support piece, obviously
from the top.
7 - Plug/putty the screw holes and cover with a runner or tread
strips.

Obviously the more that the lower support piece extends beyond the
seam, the more glue/screws you can use and the stronger it will be.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I agree with the repair option. Figure out a way to push on the edge
and put some glue in there. You never said if it's being carpeted
again? You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem.

DerbyDad03 October 9th 09 07:33 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 12:40*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 9, 11:55*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Oct 9, 11:21*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:


The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.


Bernie


"Mike rock" wrote in message


....


Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


While I would probably opt for the "fix from below method then
replaster" method, I'll toss out a few other ideas.


Will you be replacing the carpet (wall to wall) leaving the treads
bare, or installing a runner or tread strips?


Replacing the carpet wall to wall opens up options that would be
fairly simple since the tread/wall junction doesn't have to match the
others.


1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Attach some cleats to the wall below
3 - Glue and screw a new tread to the cleats
4 - Cover with carpet to hide the tread/trim junction, or even carpet
the trim.


If you will be leaving the treads bare (or using a runner or carpet
strips) then one possibility for a split that far back is to:


1 - * Drill a series of holes into the face on the tread with a long
bit
2 - Inject glue into the split
3 - Insert and glue some long hardwood dowels
4 - Rig up a clamping system to hold the split closed
5 - Sand the dowel ends (or plug/putty the holes) to finish the
bullnose.


* Obviously the hardest part is drilling straight into the tread while
keeping the drill on the same plane as the tread. Maybe some type of
jig would help with this part of the process.


Another option might be to:


1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Cross-cut a new tread into 2 sections
3 - Glue and screw a piece of hardwood or plywood to the underside of
one section, extending it so it will overlap the cross cut seam.
4 - Insert this section into the dado
5 - Insert the other section into the dado on the other side and slide
both pieces towards each other to the close the seam
6 - Glue and screw the second section to the support piece, obviously
from the top.
7 - Plug/putty the screw holes and cover with a runner or tread
strips.


Obviously the more that the lower support piece extends beyond the
seam, the more glue/screws you can use and the stronger it will be.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I agree with the repair option. *Figure out a way to push on the edge
and put some glue in there. *You never said if it's being carpeted
again? *You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


"You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem."

That may not be so....

I have a couple of creaky treads that I can't get to because they are
carpeted on top and plastered from below. I know a problem exists and
to me it's kind of a "big problem" because they didn't always creak.

I won't be able to find the *cause* of the problem until I rip the
carpet up or remove the plaster, but that doesn't mean it's not a "big
problem" now.

We don't know if the OP stairs were sagging, or creaking or what. All
we know is that he found the split (i.e. the *cause*) when he removed
the carpet. It may have been a big problem for a long time, just not
big enough to warrant ripping up the carpet.

jamesgangnc[_3_] October 9th 09 09:06 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 1:33*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 9, 12:40*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Oct 9, 11:55*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:


On Oct 9, 11:21*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:


The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.


Bernie


"Mike rock" wrote in message


...


Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


While I would probably opt for the "fix from below method then
replaster" method, I'll toss out a few other ideas.


Will you be replacing the carpet (wall to wall) leaving the treads
bare, or installing a runner or tread strips?


Replacing the carpet wall to wall opens up options that would be
fairly simple since the tread/wall junction doesn't have to match the
others.


1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Attach some cleats to the wall below
3 - Glue and screw a new tread to the cleats
4 - Cover with carpet to hide the tread/trim junction, or even carpet
the trim.


If you will be leaving the treads bare (or using a runner or carpet
strips) then one possibility for a split that far back is to:


1 - * Drill a series of holes into the face on the tread with a long
bit
2 - Inject glue into the split
3 - Insert and glue some long hardwood dowels
4 - Rig up a clamping system to hold the split closed
5 - Sand the dowel ends (or plug/putty the holes) to finish the
bullnose.


* Obviously the hardest part is drilling straight into the tread while
keeping the drill on the same plane as the tread. Maybe some type of
jig would help with this part of the process.


Another option might be to:


1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Cross-cut a new tread into 2 sections
3 - Glue and screw a piece of hardwood or plywood to the underside of
one section, extending it so it will overlap the cross cut seam.
4 - Insert this section into the dado
5 - Insert the other section into the dado on the other side and slide
both pieces towards each other to the close the seam
6 - Glue and screw the second section to the support piece, obviously
from the top.
7 - Plug/putty the screw holes and cover with a runner or tread
strips.


Obviously the more that the lower support piece extends beyond the
seam, the more glue/screws you can use and the stronger it will be.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I agree with the repair option. *Figure out a way to push on the edge
and put some glue in there. *You never said if it's being carpeted
again? *You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


"You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem."

That may not be so....

I have a couple of creaky treads that I can't get to because they are
carpeted on top and plastered from below. I know a problem exists and
to me it's kind of a "big problem" because they didn't always creak.

I won't be able to find the *cause* of the problem until I rip the
carpet up or remove the plaster, but that doesn't mean it's not a "big
problem" now.

We don't know if the OP stairs were sagging, or creaking or what. All
we know is that he found the split (i.e. the *cause*) when he removed
the carpet. It may have been a big problem for a long time, just not
big enough to warrant ripping up the carpet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You're not even the op. If he's putting carpet back on them then
ripping out some of the treads because of a couple cracks is a waste
of time. Stair treads sit on top of risers, they aren't going to fall
through because they are cracked lengthwise. And replacing some
treads properly means removing the trim first.

And you probably just need a few nails in the right place.

cshenk October 9th 09 09:57 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
"Bernie Hunt" wrote

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?


Thanks for the pics Bernie, helped alot. Worked on a house once with a
stairwell that looked much like that. The 'top stringer' that showed was
cosmetic. The real only support member was underneath. We removed it as it
was ugly and warped. Then we put corner molding along both sides. (the
risers were flush to the steps so this wasnt that hard).

Assuming however the 'stringer' isnt cosmetic (since you have a better view
in person, you'd know), then I'd take out the bad wood and cut a replacement
that will drop down and fit, but won't have the one side fit into the
stringer (fill that portion in with something).

Support by strong brackets to the bottom stringer (apply brackets, then
drop stair on them after fitting in at the other end). If the risers are
properly supported, put more brackets on the bottom of the stair. With
careful measuring, you can get a tight 'fit' so the stair doesnt wiggle (in
any direction) and with predrilled holes, you can attach to the lower riser
then cover with some sort of wood putty.

Cosmetics, I'd carefully paint the risers and restain the steps. The risers
do not appear to be the same level of pretty wood that the steps are.



aemeijers October 9th 09 10:15 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.

Bernie

"Mike rock" wrote in message
...
Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.




1. Temporarily screw an L-shaped cleat the the riser above the cracked
step. If there is a center stringer, you can put a big honking screw in
there. Thick metal would be best, but hardwood would work.
2. Invent some clamps out of threaded rod and whatever hardware or
fittings you have in your junk box or can buy, to go from the L-shaped
cleat to the bullnose at the front of the tread, that can pull tight but
not trash the wood. At least 2 rods, but 3 would be better, and
something to spread the pressure evenly along the front.
3. Inject glue in the cracks. Tighten the clamps, and leave in place for
a day or two.
4. Remove clamps and cleat, putty the screwholes, sand and refinish to suit.

I see nothing urgent about the repair- the cracks are trivial.
Personally, I'd probably just add a few nails through drilled pilot
holes, and seal the crack with something non-shiny the same color as the
wood, and forget about it. Cracks like that are not a safety hazard or
anything- the step will hold as much weight as it ever did.

--
aem sends...

DerbyDad03 October 9th 09 11:25 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
On Oct 9, 3:06*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 9, 1:33*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Oct 9, 12:40*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:


On Oct 9, 11:55*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:


On Oct 9, 11:21*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:


The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in the
middle of the tread.


Bernie


"Mike rock" wrote in message


...


Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


While I would probably opt for the "fix from below method then
replaster" method, I'll toss out a few other ideas.


Will you be replacing the carpet (wall to wall) leaving the treads
bare, or installing a runner or tread strips?


Replacing the carpet wall to wall opens up options that would be
fairly simple since the tread/wall junction doesn't have to match the
others.


1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Attach some cleats to the wall below
3 - Glue and screw a new tread to the cleats
4 - Cover with carpet to hide the tread/trim junction, or even carpet
the trim.


If you will be leaving the treads bare (or using a runner or carpet
strips) then one possibility for a split that far back is to:


1 - * Drill a series of holes into the face on the tread with a long
bit
2 - Inject glue into the split
3 - Insert and glue some long hardwood dowels
4 - Rig up a clamping system to hold the split closed
5 - Sand the dowel ends (or plug/putty the holes) to finish the
bullnose.


* Obviously the hardest part is drilling straight into the tread while
keeping the drill on the same plane as the tread. Maybe some type of
jig would help with this part of the process.


Another option might be to:


1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Cross-cut a new tread into 2 sections
3 - Glue and screw a piece of hardwood or plywood to the underside of
one section, extending it so it will overlap the cross cut seam.
4 - Insert this section into the dado
5 - Insert the other section into the dado on the other side and slide
both pieces towards each other to the close the seam
6 - Glue and screw the second section to the support piece, obviously
from the top.
7 - Plug/putty the screw holes and cover with a runner or tread
strips.


Obviously the more that the lower support piece extends beyond the
seam, the more glue/screws you can use and the stronger it will be.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I agree with the repair option. *Figure out a way to push on the edge
and put some glue in there. *You never said if it's being carpeted
again? *You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


"You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem."


That may not be so....


I have a couple of creaky treads that I can't get to because they are
carpeted on top and plastered from below. I know a problem exists and
to me it's kind of a "big problem" because they didn't always creak.


I won't be able to find the *cause* of the problem until I rip the
carpet up or remove the plaster, but that doesn't mean it's not a "big
problem" now.


We don't know if the OP stairs were sagging, or creaking or what. All
we know is that he found the split (i.e. the *cause*) when he removed
the carpet. It may have been a big problem for a long time, just not
big enough to warrant ripping up the carpet.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You're not even the op. *If he's putting carpet back on them then
ripping out some of the treads because of a couple cracks is a waste
of time. *Stair treads sit on top of risers, they aren't going to fall
through because they are cracked lengthwise. *And replacing some
treads properly means removing the trim first.

And you probably just need a few nails in the right place.


You're not even the op.

Very astute. What does that have to with anything? All I did was
respond to your comment. Is the OP the only allowed to respond? I must
have missed that in the rules.

If he's putting carpet back on them then ripping out some of the
treads because of a couple cracks is a waste of time.

You're not even the OP. How do you what he doing or why he's ripping
out the treads?

Stair treads sit on top of risers...

The fronts yes, the backs no.

... they aren't going to fall through because they are cracked
lengthwise.

Don't be so sure. Multiple lengthwise cracks as described by the OP
could easily leave a section of tread supported only at the ends,
making it susceptible to cracking front to rear if enough force is
applied to weak spot. However, what is more apt to happen is that the
sections will begin to warp since there is no longer any opposing
forces keeping them flat. See he

http://www.diynot.com/network/rezarf/albums/626/2083



Bernie Hunt[_2_] October 10th 09 12:10 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
The problem has existed for a while, but I couldn't get authorization to
remove the carpet. The stairs are not going to be recarpeted, they will get
sanded, recoated with poly, and remain bare.

Bernie


"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 11:55 am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 9, 11:21 am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:





The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from
the
riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and
third
out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread right in
the
middle of the tread.


Bernie


"Mike rock" wrote in message


...


Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.- Hide quoted
text -


- Show quoted text -


While I would probably opt for the "fix from below method then
replaster" method, I'll toss out a few other ideas.

Will you be replacing the carpet (wall to wall) leaving the treads
bare, or installing a runner or tread strips?

Replacing the carpet wall to wall opens up options that would be
fairly simple since the tread/wall junction doesn't have to match the
others.

1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Attach some cleats to the wall below
3 - Glue and screw a new tread to the cleats
4 - Cover with carpet to hide the tread/trim junction, or even carpet
the trim.

If you will be leaving the treads bare (or using a runner or carpet
strips) then one possibility for a split that far back is to:

1 - * Drill a series of holes into the face on the tread with a long
bit
2 - Inject glue into the split
3 - Insert and glue some long hardwood dowels
4 - Rig up a clamping system to hold the split closed
5 - Sand the dowel ends (or plug/putty the holes) to finish the
bullnose.

* Obviously the hardest part is drilling straight into the tread while
keeping the drill on the same plane as the tread. Maybe some type of
jig would help with this part of the process.

Another option might be to:

1 - Remove the old tread
2 - Cross-cut a new tread into 2 sections
3 - Glue and screw a piece of hardwood or plywood to the underside of
one section, extending it so it will overlap the cross cut seam.
4 - Insert this section into the dado
5 - Insert the other section into the dado on the other side and slide
both pieces towards each other to the close the seam
6 - Glue and screw the second section to the support piece, obviously
from the top.
7 - Plug/putty the screw holes and cover with a runner or tread
strips.

Obviously the more that the lower support piece extends beyond the
seam, the more glue/screws you can use and the stronger it will be.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I agree with the repair option. Figure out a way to push on the edge
and put some glue in there. You never said if it's being carpeted
again? You didn't find this until you took off the carpet so I'm
thinking it's not a big problem.



dpb October 10th 09 12:15 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
The problem has existed for a while, but I couldn't get authorization to
remove the carpet. The stairs are not going to be recarpeted, they will get
sanded, recoated with poly, and remain bare.

....

I went and looked at one of the pictures; w/ my dialup the high
resolution takes too long to load to look at both but what I notice is
the following--

1 -- The skirtboard is a pretty ordinary piece of painted (appears to
be) pine; I'd begin by looking at either removing the whole piece whole,
do repairs and replace or if that turns out problematical, remove a
section and repair it. That will be far easier patch to hide than
trying to whack up something in the tread itself.

2 -- the risers aren't oak; therefore they aren't going to match/stain
well w/ the tread anyway unless you face them. Ergo, they're also
dispensable for access and far easier to repair unobtrusively than the
tread.

3 -- still would be helpful to see the actual damage intended to be
repaired to get an idea of what actually is to be required. I wouldn't
have specific repair plan w/o knowing what it was that was trying to repair.

I am, given 2), wondering what your intended finish is for the risers.

--

Bernie Hunt[_2_] October 10th 09 12:15 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
cshenk,

That's the direction I'm headed. Get the old stair out and then brace all
the way around underneath. The left side of the stairwell, when assending,
is a wall all the way to the ceiling. The right side stops at floor level on
the second floor. So people will be looking to the right as the accend the
steps. I'll flll the left side dado so it's flush with the surface on the
stringer. Then I'll cut the new step to fit in the right side dado and lie
on the new cleat on the left side.

The one I showed you will be the easier one, the upper stair has the knwel
post sitting on it. I'll have to look at removing it.

Bernie

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Bernie Hunt" wrote

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?


Thanks for the pics Bernie, helped alot. Worked on a house once with a
stairwell that looked much like that. The 'top stringer' that showed was
cosmetic. The real only support member was underneath. We removed it as
it was ugly and warped. Then we put corner molding along both sides.
(the risers were flush to the steps so this wasnt that hard).

Assuming however the 'stringer' isnt cosmetic (since you have a better
view in person, you'd know), then I'd take out the bad wood and cut a
replacement that will drop down and fit, but won't have the one side fit
into the stringer (fill that portion in with something).

Support by strong brackets to the bottom stringer (apply brackets, then
drop stair on them after fitting in at the other end). If the risers are
properly supported, put more brackets on the bottom of the stair. With
careful measuring, you can get a tight 'fit' so the stair doesnt wiggle
(in any direction) and with predrilled holes, you can attach to the lower
riser then cover with some sort of wood putty.

Cosmetics, I'd carefully paint the risers and restain the steps. The
risers do not appear to be the same level of pretty wood that the steps
are.





Bernie Hunt[_2_] October 10th 09 12:20 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
My only concern with glueing in place is getting the joint clean enough for
glueing. Currently there is a bunch of carpet pad fuzz and who know what
every else in the joint. I'll experiement this weekend and see how clean I
can get the joint and if I can figure out a clamping solution. This is still
risky because anything less than an excellent glue joint will fail. I don't
think there is a center stringer, based on the amount of flex in the
issolated loose board in the upper tread.

Bernie

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Bernie Hunt wrote:
The tread you can see is the picture is split in the first seam out from
the riser. The stair above it has two seams that failed, the second and
third out from the tread. This places the failure in the higher tread
right in the middle of the tread.

Bernie

"Mike rock" wrote in message
...
Where are the treads split? I can't tell from the pics.




1. Temporarily screw an L-shaped cleat the the riser above the cracked
step. If there is a center stringer, you can put a big honking screw in
there. Thick metal would be best, but hardwood would work.
2. Invent some clamps out of threaded rod and whatever hardware or
fittings you have in your junk box or can buy, to go from the L-shaped
cleat to the bullnose at the front of the tread, that can pull tight but
not trash the wood. At least 2 rods, but 3 would be better, and something
to spread the pressure evenly along the front.
3. Inject glue in the cracks. Tighten the clamps, and leave in place for a
day or two.
4. Remove clamps and cleat, putty the screwholes, sand and refinish to
suit.

I see nothing urgent about the repair- the cracks are trivial. Personally,
I'd probably just add a few nails through drilled pilot holes, and seal
the crack with something non-shiny the same color as the wood, and forget
about it. Cracks like that are not a safety hazard or anything- the step
will hold as much weight as it ever did.

--
aem sends...




Bernie Hunt[_2_] October 10th 09 12:34 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
dpb,

Sorry about the size. I took them with my cell phone so the'd be smaller
than the 10mb slr.

The risers and stringers are going to be painted.

So see the damage, look at eithe picture and find the glue joint closet to
the back riser. That glue joint has failed. The other tread has two failed
glue joints. FWIR it's the first and second glue joints nearest to the
riser. Either way it's deep into the tread.

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper riser
between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper and lower
tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that riser. I'll
experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop of the lower
tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

Bernie


"dpb" wrote in message
...
Bernie Hunt wrote:
The problem has existed for a while, but I couldn't get authorization to
remove the carpet. The stairs are not going to be recarpeted, they will
get sanded, recoated with poly, and remain bare.

...

I went and looked at one of the pictures; w/ my dialup the high resolution
takes too long to load to look at both but what I notice is the
following--

1 -- The skirtboard is a pretty ordinary piece of painted (appears to be)
pine; I'd begin by looking at either removing the whole piece whole, do
repairs and replace or if that turns out problematical, remove a section
and repair it. That will be far easier patch to hide than trying to whack
up something in the tread itself.

2 -- the risers aren't oak; therefore they aren't going to match/stain
well w/ the tread anyway unless you face them. Ergo, they're also
dispensable for access and far easier to repair unobtrusively than the
tread.

3 -- still would be helpful to see the actual damage intended to be
repaired to get an idea of what actually is to be required. I wouldn't
have specific repair plan w/o knowing what it was that was trying to
repair.

I am, given 2), wondering what your intended finish is for the risers.

--




aemeijers October 10th 09 01:22 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
dpb,

Sorry about the size. I took them with my cell phone so the'd be smaller
than the 10mb slr.

The risers and stringers are going to be painted.

So see the damage, look at eithe picture and find the glue joint closet to
the back riser. That glue joint has failed. The other tread has two failed
glue joints. FWIR it's the first and second glue joints nearest to the
riser. Either way it's deep into the tread.

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper riser
between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper and lower
tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that riser. I'll
experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop of the lower
tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

Bernie

If you do that, please take a well-lit photo of the opened-up step, and
post a link back here. At this point, I'm curious what the actual
internal construction of the stairs is. I still suspect what you are
calling a stringer is just a trim board, and what somebody else called
skirting. But if there is no center stringer, I suppose this could be a
factory-made prefab staircase or something, and have dado'd stringers.
You say the step feels springy in the center, at least with the detached
part of the tread. If you tap the center part of the riser, does it ring
hollow or solid? A tiny hole drilled in the center of the riser would
tell you in seconds if there is a center stringer or not. What year was
the house built? How wide are the stairs?

Also, please use your real camera for the pictures. If it is 10
megapixel, there will be a menu to turn the resolution down, or you can
do it in your computer as you post it. The better lens and flash
compared to a cell phone will make a much better picture.

This long-distance pro-bono consulting is frustrating at times. I'm no
expert, but I know if I could see it in person, I could figure it out in
a few minutes. The actual experts on here could do it even quicker. A
sharp ice pick and thin putty knife, and a hammer, would quickly answer
a lot of questions about what is part of what, and how it all fits together.
--
aem sends...

Tony[_19_] October 10th 09 01:35 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?

Any suggestions? I have a full woodworking shop, so very little is not
possible. I've just never worked on a stair case with both sides
encapsulated into the stringers before.

Here is a picture of the left and right sides of the stair tread.
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0110.jpg
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0111.jpg

Thanks,
Bernie


I'd go with the drill, glue, and screw as others mentioned. If you want
to clamp it before installing the screw (I would), wedge a 2x4 between
the edge of the tread and the wall opposite (cut to length). If the
opposite wall is sheet rock or plaster, first use a 2x4 across 2 studs
so it doesn't poke a hole in the wall.

dpb October 10th 09 04:38 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
aemeijers wrote:
Bernie Hunt wrote:
dpb,

Sorry about the size. I took them with my cell phone so the'd be
smaller than the 10mb slr.

The risers and stringers are going to be painted.


Almost certainly that is _NOT_ a stringer; it's a skirtboard and isn't
anything but cosmetic.

Take it off
....

You bring up an interesting point.


:) I told ya' I done this before...

...I may be able to bust out the upper
riser between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper
and lower tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that
riser. I'll experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop
of the lower tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.


Precisely altho you almost certainly don't need to tear much of it up or
out; particularly if you're going to paint all that is needed is an access.

I'd still first make sure that it isn't pretty much a no-brainer to
remove the skirtboard(s), raise the tread, take it to the jointer and
renew the jointing surfaces and reglue then put it back.

At worst you make a new skirt but given the shape the one is in w/ the
dings and all, that's no loss.

--

cshenk October 10th 09 03:00 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
"Bernie Hunt" wrote
cshenk,


Thanks for the pics Bernie, helped alot. Worked on a house once with a
stairwell that looked much like that. The 'top stringer' that showed was
cosmetic. The real only support member was underneath. We removed it as
it was ugly and warped. Then we put corner molding along both sides.
(the risers were flush to the steps so this wasnt that hard).

Assuming however the 'stringer' isnt cosmetic (since you have a better
view in person, you'd know), then I'd take out the bad wood and cut a
replacement that will drop down and fit, but won't have the one side fit
into the stringer (fill that portion in with something).

Support by strong brackets to the bottom stringer (apply brackets, then
drop stair on them after fitting in at the other end). If the risers are
properly supported, put more brackets on the bottom of the stair. With
careful measuring, you can get a tight 'fit' so the stair doesnt wiggle
(in any direction) and with predrilled holes, you can attach to the lower
riser then cover with some sort of wood putty.


That's the direction I'm headed. Get the old stair out and then brace all
the way around underneath. The left side of the stairwell, when assending,
is a wall all the way to the ceiling. The right side stops at floor level
on the second floor. So people will be looking to the right as the accend
the steps. I'll flll the left side dado so it's flush with the surface on
the stringer. Then I'll cut the new step to fit in the right side dado and
lie on the new cleat on the left side.

The one I showed you will be the easier one, the upper stair has the knwel
post sitting on it. I'll have to look at removing it.


Can you get us a pic of that too then? Hey, the camera might not be perfect
but it works well enough and it's what you have. Perhaps we'll have some
workable ideas for you but have to see the post and railing.

I liked the idea of the riser access too but only if you are real sure there
isnt a support member behind it. Then again, I figured you had to remove a
stair tred anyways, so the riser access might be more work?

Tap carefully with a hammer (rubber mallet works better) all along the tops
of several stairs (healthy ones as well as bad ones) from left to right. If
there's a fairly consistant sound difference at some spot, usually middle,
then you have a 3rd structural stringer that you couldnt see because of the
plaster underside. There's good reason for it too as it's underside makes
the lath frame the plaster may have been attached to. It may *not* be in
the center. Say they had a bunch of that lath frame wood in scrappy form
that was 2 ft long (left over from some other part of building the house).
Stairwell looks like it's abut 3. Might be you find a 3rd support stringer
2ft from one side and about a foot on the other. Harmless and easy to tap
along several steps to see if you can tell something is there before you
open anything up.

I wish I had a picture to show you of what the underside might be since it's
plastered. Generally the frame that was plastered has a support frame with
I think it's no more than 18 inches. Similar to studs in a wall then cross
pieces you plastered. Methods varied with age of house. wikipedeia look
for lath and plaster.


dpb October 10th 09 08:07 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
....

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper riser
between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper and lower
tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that riser. I'll
experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop of the lower
tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

....

OK, I let it load the images. Even w/ magnification it really doesn't
look to me like either end of the tread is housed.

Since the stairs are enclosed on both ends, how could they be unless
those are skirtboards installed after the treads were already laid or,
if housed into the stringers they treads had to have been inserted from
the rear before the ceiling below was finished.

Have you unequivocally proven they really _are_ housed?

--

aemeijers October 10th 09 10:15 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
dpb wrote:
Bernie Hunt wrote:
...

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper
riser between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper
and lower tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that
riser. I'll experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop
of the lower tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

...

OK, I let it load the images. Even w/ magnification it really doesn't
look to me like either end of the tread is housed.

Since the stairs are enclosed on both ends, how could they be unless
those are skirtboards installed after the treads were already laid or,
if housed into the stringers they treads had to have been inserted from
the rear before the ceiling below was finished.

Have you unequivocally proven they really _are_ housed?

--


I don't think they are either, in this case. but staircases like that do
exist. Factory made prefabs, sold ready to drop into place. Usually not
pretty stairs for upstairs use, but not uncommon in low end houses for
basement stairs. Quite common in modulars that are flown in over a basement.

--
aem sends...

dpb October 10th 09 10:33 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
aemeijers wrote:
....
I don't think they are either, in this case. but staircases like that do
exist. Factory made prefabs, sold ready to drop into place. Usually not
pretty stairs for upstairs use, but not uncommon in low end houses for
basement stairs. Quite common in modulars that are flown in over a
basement.


That's clearly not prefab.

--

cshenk November 11th 09 03:21 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
"Bernie Hunt" wrote
cshenk,

That's the direction I'm headed. Get the old stair out and then brace all
the way around underneath. The left side of the stairwell, when assending,
is a wall all the way to the ceiling. The right side stops at floor level
on the second floor. So people will be looking to the right as the accend
the steps. I'll flll the left side dado so it's flush with the surface on
the stringer. Then I'll cut the new step to fit in the right side dado and
lie on the new cleat on the left side.


Hi Bernie, I imagine it's done now? Curious how it went.



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