I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it is
off topic.

Many thanks.

Kate

Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it
is off topic.


Where are you going to PUT these $45 locking lug nuts? In the glove box?

As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that depends
on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of the wheels. For
sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored location, the thieves may
take an acetylene torch to the axles.

HeyBub wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it
is off topic.


Where are you going to PUT these $45 locking lug nuts? In the glove box?

As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that depends
on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of the wheels. For
sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored location, the thieves may
take an acetylene torch to the axles.


You lost me. I would put one on each wheel. I don't have any
and the wheels sell for about $180 ea. Just thought I would ask.

Thanks.

Kate wrote in -
september.org:

I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just covered
up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been required by law
since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

If you look closely, you'll probably find there's a plastic cover on the
face of the wheel. This hides the lug nuts.

Your Owner's Manual will give this information in great detail, complete
with diagrams and instructions on how to get the cover off.

What kind of car is this, anyway?


--
Tegger

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Kate wrote in -
september.org:

I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

You need to be concerned about the wheels falling off. Without lug
nuts, there is usually nothing to hold them on.

All of the nuts that go on the studs are lug nuts, whether they use a
key of whatever sort or just a regular lug wrench or jack handle. But
some have either key locks or unsuaal shapes, which they also call a
key. I had a set of unusual shapes, and I worried that I would lose
the "key", but I think the set came with two. Then I had a flat tire
and had a hard time engagine the key into the lug nut, and it wasn't
even wet, and I figured next time it may be cold and raining and it
may be much harder to do if the nut is wet and slippery, and I took
them off. I see my next door neighbor has one on each wheel.

ON the other hand, way back in high school in 1964, in a suburban
school district with no crime to speak of, a friend drove to school
sometimes and one day his car would start but woudln't move. He found
that it was jacked up and the rear axle was resting on a box and the
wheel/tire was gone. This guy and his parents had only enough money
to live nicely on, and didn't splurge on mag wheels or anything. It
was probably a Chevy. I don't know why it was stolen. We didn't even
have fistfights in this school.

Bub is right that it depends on a lot of things whether you need wheel
locks, where you park it, how busy it is there, how special your
wheels are. Are wheels still a popular item for theft. I've driven a
convertible for 42 years (not the same one) and slashing tops used to
be popular, and indeed, my top was slashed once (I patched it and then
in the rough n'hood I lived in, they would push open the patch and
unlock the door and steal it if I left anything at all in the car.
But then convertibles became much less common, and not only did the
manufacturers forget that you can't use a day/night mirror in a
convertible, but the criminals seemed to have forgotten how much fun
it is to slash tops. It's a piece of Americana, of folkways that
seems not to have been passed down to the latest generation of
criminals. We may be losing our heritage, but I like it. Now
convertble tops became uncommon, but for some reason that never
happened to wheels. But still, how common is it these days for wheels
to be stolen?

What kind of car do you have. How much was the sticker price for the
rims (wheels)?

You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just covered
up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been required by law
since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

99+% of cars used lugnuts from 1945's or earlier until 1968 and
afterwards. Are you saying they outlawed for street use the one big
nut in the middle, that one hit with a wrench to spin on or off,
instead of 4 or 5 in a circle? What do you call that?

If you look closely, you'll probably find there's a plastic cover on the
face of the wheel. This hides the lug nuts.

Your Owner's Manual will give this information in great detail, complete
with diagrams and instructions on how to get the cover off.

What kind of car is this, anyway?

mm wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just
covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been
required by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

99+% of cars used lugnuts from 1945's or earlier until 1968 and
afterwards.


A good chunk anyway. And some did use bolts instead of studs and nuts,
which counted as the same thing.


Are you saying they outlawed for street use the one big
nut in the middle, that one hit with a wrench to spin on or off,
instead of 4 or 5 in a circle? What do you call that?


That's called a "knockoff". These were common on many European cars and
were available on some performance-oriented American cars (Corvette, for
one).

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!




--
Tegger

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:49:43 -0500, HeyBub wrote:
As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that depends
on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of the wheels. For
sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored location, the thieves may
take an acetylene torch to the axles.

Yep.

Or drag the whole car onto a trailer...

And a sufficiently-organized group probably has a whole array of different
shaped keys at their disposal...

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:18:17 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

mm wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just
covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been
required by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

99+% of cars used lugnuts from 1945's or earlier until 1968 and
afterwards.


A good chunk anyway. And some did use bolts instead of studs and nuts,
which counted as the same thing.

That's true. I forgot about that. But I was right, that's not what
you meant.

Are you saying they outlawed for street use the one big
nut in the middle, that one hit with a wrench to spin on or off,
instead of 4 or 5 in a circle? What do you call that?


That's called a "knockoff". These were common on many European cars and
were available on some performance-oriented American cars (Corvette, for
one).

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!

I presume they were banned because wheels were falling off the cars?
I once changed my tire and didn't put it on well I guess, and on a two
hour trip I kept hearing knocking but didn't get out of the car to
look. I thought it was the wheel bearing or something, never having
heard a bad wheel bearing. When I got where I was going, I looked,
and it was the lug nuts that were loose. Two of my wheel holes were
oblong and the threads on two or three lug studs were ruined. I was
able to tighten 4 or 5 nuts, but I had to replace the studs.**

Now that's when I had to screw up 5 nuts and I still came close to
succeeding. If people like me have only one knockoff, I'm sure some
of them will not tighten it and the wheel will fall off.

**That led to more problems. Instead of replacing the studs, I got an
old brake drum, with part of the wheel bearing iirc, and just
exchanged them. I knew you weren't supposed to mate two non-mated
halves of a wheel bearing, but I did it anyhow. I drove around for a
day and it seemed fine. The next day I set off from NYC to Chicago. I
was just north of Pittsburgh when the rider driving told me she heard
something if she headed straight ahead. Sure enough, I was melting
the bearing onto the spindle. Fortunately I had all my old parts in
the trunk and the guy at the dealer was able to put me back togeher
again for 8 dollars. He had to get his boss to use an acetelyne torch
to remove the bearing from the spindle. He's was proud that he didn't
ruin the spindle.

On Sep 14, 10:06*pm, mm wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:18:17 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:



mm wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just
covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been
required by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

99+% of cars used lugnuts from 1945's or earlier until 1968 and
afterwards.

A good chunk anyway. And some did use bolts instead of studs and nuts,
which counted as the same thing.

That's true. I forgot about that. *But I was right, that's not what
you meant.



Are you saying they outlawed for street use the one big
nut in the middle, that one hit with a wrench to spin on or off,
instead of 4 or 5 in a circle? *What do you call that?

That's called a "knockoff". These were common on many European cars and
were available on some performance-oriented American cars (Corvette, for
one).

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!

I presume they were banned because wheels were falling off the cars?
I once changed my tire and didn't put it on well I guess, and on a two
hour trip I kept hearing knocking but didn't get out of the car to
look. I thought it was the wheel bearing or something, never having
heard a bad wheel bearing. * When I got where I was going, I looked,
and it was the lug nuts that were loose. *Two of my wheel holes were
oblong and the threads on two or three lug studs were ruined. *I was
able to tighten 4 or 5 nuts, but I had to replace the studs.**

Now that's when I had to screw up 5 nuts and I still came close to
succeeding. *If people like me have only one knockoff, I'm sure some
of them will not tighten it and the wheel will fall off.

**That led to more problems. *Instead of replacing the studs, I got an
old brake drum, with part of the wheel bearing iirc, and just
exchanged them. I knew you weren't supposed to mate two non-mated
halves of a wheel bearing, but I did it anyhow. *I drove around for a
day and it seemed fine. The next day I set off from NYC to Chicago. *I
was just north of Pittsburgh when the rider driving told me she heard
something if she headed straight ahead. *Sure enough, I was melting
the bearing onto the spindle. * Fortunately I had all my old parts in
the trunk and the guy at the dealer was able to put me back togeher
again for 8 dollars. *He had to get his boss to use an acetelyne torch
to remove the bearing from the spindle. *He's was proud that he didn't
ruin the spindle.

"the dealer was able to put me back togeher again for 8 dollars."

$8? What year was that...1922?

Kate wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though
it is off topic.


Where are you going to PUT these $45 locking lug nuts? In the glove
box? As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that
depends on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of
the wheels. For sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored
location, the thieves may take an acetylene torch to the axles.


You lost me. I would put one on each wheel. I don't have any
and the wheels sell for about $180 ea. Just thought I would ask.


Okay, let me try this again. You say you don't have any lug nuts on the car.
Aside from the obvious question of just what in the world is holding the
wheels ON the car, where would you put these new lug nuts inasmuch as there
doesn't seem to be anywhere in the neighbor of the tires TO put them.

Tegger wrote:
Kate wrote in -
september.org:

I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just covered
up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been required by law
since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

If you look closely, you'll probably find there's a plastic cover on the
face of the wheel. This hides the lug nuts.

Your Owner's Manual will give this information in great detail, complete
with diagrams and instructions on how to get the cover off.

What kind of car is this, anyway?


Hey thank you so much. Yes, there is a cover on the face of the wheel.
I called the dealer and was told this info. He said I don't need a key
because any car repair place, including Les Schwab knows how to get the
lug nut off.

This is a Lincoln MKS. I had a Mark VIII once, and it had a key to it.

Many thanks.

In article m, (Jules) writes:

| And a sufficiently-organized group probably has a whole array of different
| shaped keys at their disposal...

I've always thought that one of those "universal" sockets or a big stud
extractor might do the trick. There used to be a type of lug nut lock
that took an actual key in the center. Until it was unlocked the outside
just spun. This seemed conceptually neater than a funny-shaped nut but
I'm afraid it might not stand up to being hit with a hammer...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

In article , Kate wrote:
I just got a new car

Sorry to hear that. You made a bad decision.

and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Oh yes, they do. (What do you suppose keeps the wheels from falling off?)

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Not unless the wheels are extremely valuable, and you don't have insurance on
the car.

Tip: on most cars, the difference in monthly cost between comprehensive
insurance with a $0 deductible, and comp/$500 is so small as to make it
absolutely insane to get comp with any deductible at all. Either get it with
no deductible, or don't get it.

In your case, get it. That's what buys replacement wheels for you if these are
stolen.

IOW, don't lose sleep over it.

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Any place where you can buy a locking lug nut, I can buy a key to unlock it.

In article ,
Tegger wrote:

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!

So does Ferrari provide owners with the appropriate torque wrench, right
there with the jack and spare tire?

"Kate" wrote in message
...
Tegger wrote:
Kate wrote in -
september.org:

I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just
covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been required
by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

If you look closely, you'll probably find there's a plastic cover on the
face of the wheel. This hides the lug nuts.

Your Owner's Manual will give this information in great detail, complete
with diagrams and instructions on how to get the cover off.

What kind of car is this, anyway?


Hey thank you so much. Yes, there is a cover on the face of the wheel.
I called the dealer and was told this info. He said I don't need a key
because any car repair place, including Les Schwab knows how to get the
lug nut off.

This is a Lincoln MKS. I had a Mark VIII once, and it had a key to it.

Many thanks.

Trouble is, thieves have access to those lug nut keys, too.

Steve

mm wrote:

I presume they were banned because wheels were falling off the cars?
I once changed my tire and didn't put it on well I guess, and on a two
hour trip I kept hearing knocking but didn't get out of the car to
look. I thought it was the wheel bearing or something, never having
heard a bad wheel bearing. When I got where I was going, I looked,
and it was the lug nuts that were loose. Two of my wheel holes were
oblong and the threads on two or three lug studs were ruined. I was
able to tighten 4 or 5 nuts, but I had to replace the studs.**


Heh!

I recently bought a couple of tires at Walmart. I watched the technician
re-mount the tires and asked if he was done. "No," he said, "I've got to get
the manager to re-torque on the lugs and sign-off on the job. Walmart
doesn't want you to drive out of here and have your nuts fall off."

Presently the manager appeared with a torque wrench.
Click-click-clickety-click, followed by: "Your nuts are good to go!"

Kate wrote:
Tegger wrote:
Kate wrote in -
september.org:

I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just
covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been
required by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

If you look closely, you'll probably find there's a plastic cover on
the face of the wheel. This hides the lug nuts.

Your Owner's Manual will give this information in great detail,
complete with diagrams and instructions on how to get the cover off.

What kind of car is this, anyway?


Hey thank you so much. Yes, there is a cover on the face of the
wheel. I called the dealer and was told this info. He said I don't
need a key because any car repair place, including Les Schwab knows
how to get the lug nut off.

This is a Lincoln MKS. I had a Mark VIII once, and it had a key to
it.

What you COULD do is get rid of the expensive wheels/rims/etc. and replace
them with standard wheels and the eight-inch hub caps like you see on a
police car.

I've never heard of tires/rims being stolen from a police cruiser.

ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in
:

In article m,
(Jules) writes:

| And a sufficiently-organized group probably has a whole array of
| different shaped keys at their disposal...

I've always thought that one of those "universal" sockets or a big
stud extractor might do the trick. There used to be a type of lug nut
lock that took an actual key in the center. Until it was unlocked the
outside just spun. This seemed conceptually neater than a
funny-shaped nut but I'm afraid it might not stand up to being hit
with a hammer...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com


you can buy sockets at Harbor Freight for removing wheel locks when you
don't have a key.Just like you can buy "slim jims" at Advance Auto Parts
for opening locked car doors.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

HeyBub wrote:
mm wrote:
I presume they were banned because wheels were falling off the cars?
I once changed my tire and didn't put it on well I guess, and on a two
hour trip I kept hearing knocking but didn't get out of the car to
look. I thought it was the wheel bearing or something, never having
heard a bad wheel bearing. When I got where I was going, I looked,
and it was the lug nuts that were loose. Two of my wheel holes were
oblong and the threads on two or three lug studs were ruined. I was
able to tighten 4 or 5 nuts, but I had to replace the studs.**


Heh!

I recently bought a couple of tires at Walmart. I watched the technician
re-mount the tires and asked if he was done. "No," he said, "I've got to get
the manager to re-torque on the lugs and sign-off on the job. Walmart
doesn't want you to drive out of here and have your nuts fall off."

Presently the manager appeared with a torque wrench.
Click-click-clickety-click, followed by: "Your nuts are good to go!"



I think I'll stick with my local evil mom & pop tire place where they
don't need to bring the manager out to verify basic service was done
properly.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Tegger wrote:

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!

So does Ferrari provide owners with the appropriate torque wrench, right
there with the jack and spare tire?
The Ferrari came with a lead hammer to wallop the nut into place. That was
standard on more expensive sports cars at the time. I had them on my
MG-B in the 1960s.

Bill

I thought nuts were in the grocery department with trail
mix?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

I recently bought a couple of tires at Walmart. I watched
the technician
re-mount the tires and asked if he was done. "No," he said,
"I've got to get
the manager to re-torque on the lugs and sign-off on the
job. Walmart
doesn't want you to drive out of here and have your nuts
fall off."

Presently the manager appeared with a torque wrench.
Click-click-clickety-click, followed by: "Your nuts are good
to go!"

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:06:24 -0500, BillGill wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Tegger wrote:

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!

So does Ferrari provide owners with the appropriate torque wrench, right
there with the jack and spare tire?
The Ferrari came with a lead hammer to wallop the nut into place. That was
standard on more expensive sports cars at the time. I had them on my
MG-B in the 1960s.

Indeed - forget using a torque wrench. Keeping a normal lump hammer and a
piece of wood in the car was a practice often seen. I've never used a
torque wrench on any of my old vehicles even with conventional wheel nuts
- doing it by feel alone has always been fine.

I got into the habit of just taking wheels into tire places rather
than the whole car, too, because I found they had a habit of messing up
alloy wheels or over-torquing the nuts and damaging the threads :-(
Better to haul 'em in using another vehicle and put them back on the car
at home...

cheers

Jules

Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it is
off topic.

Many thanks.

Kate
Hi,
We have 4 cars in the family(one for each of us).
When we get new car we have them installed. Lug nut is easy to
remove with a tool(socket) made for that. Just making it little
inconvenient for would be thief.

Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it is
off topic.

Many thanks.

Kate

If there's no lug nuts, then what holds the wheels on?

s

George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
mm wrote:
I presume they were banned because wheels were falling off the cars?
I once changed my tire and didn't put it on well I guess, and on a
two hour trip I kept hearing knocking but didn't get out of the car
to look. I thought it was the wheel bearing or something, never
having heard a bad wheel bearing. When I got where I was going, I
looked, and it was the lug nuts that were loose. Two of my wheel
holes were oblong and the threads on two or three lug studs were
ruined. I was able to tighten 4 or 5 nuts, but I had to replace
the studs.**

Heh!

I recently bought a couple of tires at Walmart. I watched the
technician re-mount the tires and asked if he was done. "No," he
said, "I've got to get the manager to re-torque on the lugs and
sign-off on the job. Walmart doesn't want you to drive out of here
and have your nuts fall off." Presently the manager appeared with a
torque wrench.
Click-click-clickety-click, followed by: "Your nuts are good to go!"



I think I'll stick with my local evil mom & pop tire place where they
don't need to bring the manager out to verify basic service was done
properly.

I think it's a wise move to have another employee double-check a safety
item.

Plus, here's a story from just today about how Walmart is involved in the
fight to keep nuts from falling off.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32784197...sexual_health/

Tony Hwang wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it
is off topic.

Many thanks.

Kate
Hi,
We have 4 cars in the family(one for each of us).
When we get new car we have them installed. Lug nut is easy to
remove with a tool(socket) made for that. Just making it little
inconvenient for would be thief.

I found the lug wrench. I should have taken the time to check the spare
tire area.

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:09:21 -0700, Kate wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it
is off topic.


Where are you going to PUT these $45 locking lug nuts? In the glove box?

As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that depends
on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of the wheels. For
sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored location, the thieves may
take an acetylene torch to the axles.


You lost me. I would put one on each wheel. I don't have any
and the wheels sell for about $180 ea. Just thought I would ask.

Thanks.

I don't mean to be rude but wheels that only cost $180 each aren't
worth getting worried too about. That's just about the bottom of the
barrel.

Gordon Shumway

Is it good if a vacuum really sucks?

On Sep 15, 1:30*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it is
off topic.

Many thanks.

Kate

If there's no lug nuts, then what holds the wheels on?

s

Exactly. And if someone really wants the wheel/s easy enough to chop-
off the locking nut; usually installed, if at all, one on each wheel.
And a 'professional wheel thief' will probably have the appropriate
unlocking tool anyway! Some places in the world they just take the
whole car; take the wheels and anything else and then dump it!

Don't really see the point of these alloy wheels. Lighter maybe?
But expensive and harder to fix or replace if damaged! So for winter
we acquire an extra set of four steel ones and equip them with steel
studded (legal here until May 1st) snow tyres.

Oddly enough the only time I ever had wheels stolen it was plain old
steel wheels off an old ex-Hertz/Avis 76 Chev. I had bought to tow a
trailer! Also, ironically I was in court as a witness giving evidence
against a contractor concerning the installation of water in our
community at the time and could almost see the car in a parking space
from the courtroom window!

Time to go shopping for winter tyres shortly. First snow storm often
in November. Certainly by Dec15th. Although the weather during the
last 50 years or so has been more variable and uncertain; seems to be
changing! Despite slight increase in cost of hydro generated
electricity, heating costs during recent winters, have, if anything
have been lower! But it mainly a function of how windy it gets here,
near the North Atlantic.

If worried about wheels being stolen get some plain old steel ones;
even new often available for $50 or less. apiece. And if used (watch
out though for those that came off a crashed vehicle) sometimes get a
couple at time for $20 each. So for around $100 one saves the cost
and potential damage to fancy rims by twice a year mounting and
dismounting, balancing and installing two or four winter tyres. And
cost of same.
Also if one has the four snow tyre wheels stored in garage or shed it
takes less than an hour to change them over oneself in the driveway
etc. and put the unused ones back into the shed. Although must admit
now am in mid/late 70s I have once or twice taken them to a service
station. It also gives one a chance to inspect and clean up the set of
wheels that are off the vehicle.

As they say cut the cloth to fit the situation. My father once knew a
very affluent/influential, person (Lord ....Sir Somebody Hunt?) IIRC,
who used to take an older smaller car and wear an old raincoat to his
business meetings; rather than take his family's Roll Royce. He said
it attracted less attention away from the business at hand, and
nothing was ever stolen form the smaller/cheaper car. Maybe there's a
lesson there?

In article
,
stan wrote:

As they say cut the cloth to fit the situation. My father once knew a
very affluent/influential, person (Lord ....Sir Somebody Hunt?) IIRC,
who used to take an older smaller car and wear an old raincoat to his
business meetings; rather than take his family's Roll Royce. He said
it attracted less attention away from the business at hand, and
nothing was ever stolen form the smaller/cheaper car. Maybe there's a
lesson there?

Yeah, the lesson is, Rolls are meant to stay parked. Years ago I dated a
woman whose father had one. He mostly drove a station wagon with fake
wood grain sides. Every time he took the Rolls out of the garage, it
broke down within a few miles.

Gordon Shumway wrote in
:

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:09:21 -0700, Kate wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though
it is off topic.


Where are you going to PUT these $45 locking lug nuts? In the glove
box?

As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that
depends on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of
the wheels. For sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored
location, the thieves may take an acetylene torch to the axles.


You lost me. I would put one on each wheel. I don't have any
and the wheels sell for about $180 ea. Just thought I would ask.

Thanks.

I don't mean to be rude but wheels that only cost $180 each aren't
worth getting worried too about. That's just about the bottom of the
barrel.

if somebody likes them and would rather steal than buy,it doesn't matter
how much they cost.
(and then there's the value of the TIRES on the wheels...)

FWIW,factory wheels are not high theft items.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:09:21 -0700, Kate wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Kate wrote:
I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?

Would you live with it the way it is, or pay $45 for four keyed or
locking lug nuts?

Everyone is always so helpful so I wanted to post here even though it
is off topic.

Where are you going to PUT these $45 locking lug nuts? In the glove box?

As to whether you should worry about the wheels being stolen, that depends
on the neighborhood where the car is parked and the value of the wheels. For
sufficiently valuable wheels in an unmonitored location, the thieves may
take an acetylene torch to the axles.


You lost me. I would put one on each wheel. I don't have any
and the wheels sell for about $180 ea. Just thought I would ask.

Thanks.

I don't mean to be rude but wheels that only cost $180 each aren't
worth getting worried too about. That's just about the bottom of the
barrel.

Gordon Shumway

Is it good if a vacuum really sucks?
Gordon,

I found out that I do have lug nuts They are underneath a round cap on
the wheel. The lug wrench is in with the spare tire.

I should have done more homework before posting this question.

Thanks.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), against all advice,
something compelled Tegger , to say:

You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just covered
up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been required by law
since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).


My car has bolts instead of nuts. Am I breaking the law?



--

Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will
have to ram it down their throats.
- Howard Aiken

I think it's a testosterone thing, see how tight you can
crank the lugs. I've also seen that, in garages.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jules" wrote
in message
news
I got into the habit of just taking wheels into tire places
rather
than the whole car, too, because I found they had a habit of
messing up
alloy wheels or over-torquing the nuts and damaging the
threads :-(
Better to haul 'em in using another vehicle and put them
back on the car
at home...

cheers

Jules

No worries, an easy misteak to make.

Blonde: I want to report a fire.
Dispatcher: How do we get there?
Blonde: In a big red truck, d'uh!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kate" wrote in message
...

I found out that I do have lug nuts They are underneath a
round cap on
the wheel. The lug wrench is in with the spare tire.

I should have done more homework before posting this
question.

Thanks.

P&M

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:34:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


I presume [knockoff wheel bolts] were banned because wheels were falling off the cars?
I once changed my tire and didn't put it on well I guess, and on a two
hour trip I kept hearing knocking but didn't get out of the car to
look. I thought it was the wheel bearing or something, never having
heard a bad wheel bearing. * When I got where I was going, I looked,
and it was the lug nuts that were loose. *Two of my wheel holes were
oblong and the threads on two or three lug studs were ruined. *I was
able to tighten 4 or 5 nuts, but I had to replace the studs.**

In case it's not obvious, Because the wheel moving on the hub had let
the wheel hit the studs and damage the threads on at least two studs.
The same reason at least two of the bolt holes in the wheel were
oblong.


Now that's when I had to screw up 5 nuts and I still came close to
succeeding.

Close to letting my wheel fall off. Also I think there are a lot more
threads per inch on the those little studs than on what a knockoff
uses. At least for a race car, they just start it on, then hit it
and it spins two or three revolutions and it's tight, right?

*If people like me have only one knockoff, I'm sure some
of them will not tighten it and the wheel will fall off.

**That led to more problems. *Instead of replacing the studs, I got an
old brake drum, with part of the wheel bearing iirc, and just
exchanged them. I knew you weren't supposed to mate two non-mated
halves of a wheel bearing, but I did it anyhow. *I drove around for a
day and it seemed fine. The next day I set off from NYC to Chicago. *I
was just north of Pittsburgh when the rider driving told me she heard
something if she headed straight ahead. *Sure enough, I was melting
the bearing onto the spindle. * Fortunately I had all my old parts in
the trunk and the guy at the dealer was able to put me back togeher
again for 8 dollars. *He had to get his boss to use an acetelyne torch
to remove the bearing from the spindle. *He's was proud that he didn't
ruin the spindle.

"the dealer was able to put me back togeher again for 8 dollars."

$8? What year was that...1922?

No, 1972 or 3, and yeah, it was amazingly cheap. Even more so when you
hear all he did. I thought I was going to have to pay 50, 100, 150 or
more, trying to remember prices then, but he only charged 7 dollars
and change.

I wanted to go back to Chicago for a visit so I put a notice up at
NYU, it probably was, looking for riders. I got two, a girl and a
guy who used to work in a political job for Mayor Daley (which was a
bad thing). We're on Interstate 80, a new road then, that goes
east-west across northern, entirely rural, and partly wilderness Pa.
and we're almost to Ohio. She's driving and she tells me that when she
goes even to the left or right a bit, it's quiet, but when she points
straight ahead, there's a noise. I drive for a bit and she is right!
I pull over and for the wheel I had fiddled with 2 days earlier, the
hub is too hot to touch. I just held my hand near it and I could feel
the warmth. But, aha, there is a ramp only 200 yards ahead of me and
a gas station at the top of the ramp. So I go there. But he tells me,
I can't do it. You'll have to go to the dealer. Well the dealer is
only 3 miles north in a tiny town. Looking at the map, I see it is
Mercer, Pa, just as I recalled from 37 years ago!

I drive in, tell the guy the problem, and the first thing he does is
look at the clock. It's 10 to 5, closing time. Immediately I think
he's going to tell me to come back tomorrow, which means I'll have to
pay for a motel for all 3 of us, probably one room for me and the guy
and another room for the girl, plus I'll have to buy them dinner. If
it were just me, I could have slept in a corn field. The whole reason
I got riders was to save money.

But he doesn't say anything and he starts in on it. After taking off
the tire and the hub/brakedrum iirc, he tells me that the inner race
of the bearing is fused to the spindle (it was so hot). For those who
don't know, the spindle is like the axle, but just the outer 6 inches
of it, and it turns left and right because it's a front wheel. He
doesn't think he can get the bearing off without ruining the spindle,
and he doesn't stock the spindle. Darn, I think, the junk yards are
closing in 5 minutes, I'll have to come back tomorrow after all.

I'll get my boss, he says. The boss comes and lights the acetylene
torch, and goes at it. In less than a minute, iirc, he turns off the
torch and says, "You were lucky. I got it off without ruining the
spindle. I have a bearing in stock and I think you ruined the brake
drum too. Oh, I say, I have my original brake drum in the trunk."
I"m vague here, because I thought he didn't provide any parts, but if
he cut off the original inner race, he must have replaced the bearing.
And he must have pushed out the orificial outer race from the brake
drum, because he's not going to do what I did, use halves of two
different bearings (either both used or one used and one new, either
way they don't match). So he sold me a new wheel bearing. Maybe that
is what made it cost 7.60. I don't remember watching him push the
bearing out or in, but any how, he had me ready to leave by about
5:15, 25 minutes total, and the bill was 7.60. I gave them 10 dollars
and said the rest was for the coffee they made for themselves. I
wanted to yell about how cheap they were. Maybe because it wasn't NYC
or Chicago. But I didn't want to make them feel they weren't charging
enough.

One of them may have left already but I apologize to whoever is there
for keeping them after 5:00 and he says, "It doesnt' matter. I live 5
minutes from here anyhow." And no rush hour traffic in NW Pa.

Later it occurred to me, or maybe he told me, that if I had driven
much farther and it had gotten much hotter, the bearing might have
melted, and then cooled when I parked, and fused into one piece, and I
couldn't even have driven the car. That would have meant a tow
truck, maybe many miles, and more parts and much more money yet.

And yet here I am last year, 36 years later, letting a moderate
medical problem lead to emergency, probably life-at-risk surgery.
It's like I haven't learned a thing.

I must have been misled, because the whole thing only took 45 minutes
and I spent 10 dollars.

Steve Daniels wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), against all advice,
something compelled Tegger , to say:

You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are
just covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have
been required by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).


My car has bolts instead of nuts. Am I breaking the law?






Yes. And as punishment you must drive a 1986 Yugo with worn balljoints and
a grabby clutch.





--
Tegger

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:08:25 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:06:24 -0500, BillGill wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Tegger wrote:

"Knockoffs" were outlawed on new vehicles manufactured or imported for the
US market after 1967. They /are/ permitted on vehicles that are imported to
the US after they are 25 years old, so your freshly-imported Euro-spec 1984
Ferrari Testarossa may legally retain its 450 ft-lb knockoffs!

So does Ferrari provide owners with the appropriate torque wrench, right
there with the jack and spare tire?
The Ferrari came with a lead hammer to wallop the nut into place. That was
standard on more expensive sports cars at the time. I had them on my
MG-B in the 1960s.

This is because the cars were made for racing, and this makes pitstops
go faster, right? Don't all race cars still have knockoffs, or at
least non-stock-cars.

Or the cars weren't made for racing but it made the owners feel like
race car drivers.

Indeed - forget using a torque wrench. Keeping a normal lump hammer and a
piece of wood in the car was a practice often seen. I've never used a
torque wrench on any of my old vehicles even with conventional wheel nuts
- doing it by feel alone has always been fine.

I got into the habit of just taking wheels into tire places rather
than the whole car, too, because I found they had a habit of messing up
alloy wheels or over-torquing the nuts and damaging the threads :-(
Better to haul 'em in using another vehicle and put them back on the car
at home...

That's a good idea. I need a second car, or a wife with a car.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:55:05 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Kate wrote:
Tegger wrote:
Kate wrote in -
september.org:

I just got a new car and the wheels do not have lug nuts on them.

Do I need to be concerned about the wheels being stolen?



You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just
covered up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been
required by law since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).

If you look closely, you'll probably find there's a plastic cover on
the face of the wheel. This hides the lug nuts.

Your Owner's Manual will give this information in great detail,
complete with diagrams and instructions on how to get the cover off.

What kind of car is this, anyway?


Hey thank you so much. Yes, there is a cover on the face of the
wheel. I called the dealer and was told this info. He said I don't
need a key because any car repair place, including Les Schwab knows
how to get the lug nut off.

This is a Lincoln MKS. I had a Mark VIII once, and it had a key to
it.

What you COULD do is get rid of the expensive wheels/rims/etc. and replace
them with standard wheels and the eight-inch hub caps like you see on a
police car.

I've never heard of tires/rims being stolen from a police cruiser.

That me because they are driving so much and they have video cameras
at the Dunkin' Donuts.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:43:14 -0700, Steve Daniels
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:10:27 +0000 (UTC), against all advice,
something compelled Tegger , to say:

You can be 100% certain your wheels DO have lug nuts; they are just covered
up to make the wheel look prettier. Lug nuts have been required by law
since 1968 (no I'm not kidding).


My car has bolts instead of nuts. Am I breaking the law?


Darn right. On your knees, now face down, scum, and spread your legs.

Sounds like one of the rare good people left in the world.
Thanks for sharing.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...



I drive in, tell the guy the problem, and the first thing he
does is
look at the clock. It's 10 to 5, closing time.


I'll get my boss, he says. The boss comes and lights the
acetylene
torch, and goes at it. In less than a minute, iirc, he turns
off the
torch and says, "You were lucky. I got it off without
ruining the
spindle. I have a bearing in stock and I think you ruined
the brake
drum too. Oh, I say, I have my original brake drum in the
trunk."


5:15, 25 minutes total, and the bill was 7.60. I gave them
10 dollars
and said the rest was for the coffee they made for
themselves. I
wanted to yell about how cheap they were. Maybe because it
wasn't NYC
or Chicago. But I didn't want to make them feel they
weren't charging
enough.



Later it occurred to me, or maybe he told me, that if I had
driven
much farther and it had gotten much hotter, the bearing
might have
melted, and then cooled when I parked, and fused into one
piece, and I
couldn't even have driven the car. That would have meant a
tow
truck, maybe many miles, and more parts and much more money
yet.