We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:11:41 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher
wrote:

We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

Wayne Dalton has been out of business for years. Another door company
was bought by Martin Doors. They kept all phone numbers and
yellow-page ads.

I suggest you visit Lowe's or HD and look a door samples for Martin
Doors. or visit their site.* This door qualifies for a tax credit. A
single door cost me $1200.00 (no new rails, windows or opener). The
installers at L/HD are the actual company Martin employees that are
trained and not some jay-bird off the street.

http://www.martindoor.com/

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:27:21 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:11:41 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher
wrote:

We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

Wayne Dalton has been out of business for years. Another door company
was bought by Martin Doors. They kept all phone numbers and
yellow-page ads.

I suggest you visit Lowe's or HD and look a door samples for Martin
Doors. or visit their site.* This door qualifies for a tax credit. A
single door cost me $1200.00 (no new rails, windows or opener). The
installers at L/HD are the actual company Martin employees that are
trained and not some jay-bird off the street.

http://www.martindoor.com/

Correction - I did get "new rails".

Martin rails/tracks are about 4" wide vs standard rails.

On Aug 10, 6:27*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:11:41 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher

wrote:
We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. *This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. *We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. *We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. *We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

Wayne Dalton has been out of business for years. Another door company
was bought by Martin Doors. They kept all phone numbers and
yellow-page ads.

I suggest you visit Lowe's or HD and look a door samples for Martin
Doors. or visit their site.* *This door qualifies for a tax credit. A
single door cost me $1200.00 (no new rails, windows or opener). The
installers at L/HD are the actual company Martin employees that are
trained and not some jay-bird off the street.

http://www.martindoor.com/

Wayne Dalton out of business? They still have a website and a garage
door company in our area (very reputable) sells both the Clopay and
Wayne Dalton garage doors. Are you saying that Martin bought Wayne
Dalton and kept the Wayne Dalton name? I'm not sure that I understand
exactly what it is that you are saying.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:18:33 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher
wrote:

On Aug 10, 6:27*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:11:41 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher

wrote:
We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. *This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. *We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. *We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. *We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

Wayne Dalton has been out of business for years. Another door company
was bought by Martin Doors. They kept all phone numbers and
yellow-page ads.

I suggest you visit Lowe's or HD and look a door samples for Martin
Doors. or visit their site.* *This door qualifies for a tax credit. A
single door cost me $1200.00 (no new rails, windows or opener). The
installers at L/HD are the actual company Martin employees that are
trained and not some jay-bird off the street.

http://www.martindoor.com/

Wayne Dalton out of business? They still have a website and a garage
door company in our area (very reputable) sells both the Clopay and
Wayne Dalton garage doors. Are you saying that Martin bought Wayne
Dalton and kept the Wayne Dalton name? I'm not sure that I understand
exactly what it is that you are saying.

I'm saying my WD door was no longer available. Calling numbers in
yellow pages MIGHT just direct you to another company that was bought
by another.

Got a link for WD doors? Where do they make them?

On Aug 10, 8:12*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:18:33 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher



wrote:
On Aug 10, 6:27*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:11:41 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher

wrote:
We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. *This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. *We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. *We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. *We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

Wayne Dalton has been out of business for years. Another door company
was bought by Martin Doors. They kept all phone numbers and
yellow-page ads.

I suggest you visit Lowe's or HD and look a door samples for Martin
Doors. or visit their site.* *This door qualifies for a tax credit. A
single door cost me $1200.00 (no new rails, windows or opener). The
installers at L/HD are the actual company Martin employees that are
trained and not some jay-bird off the street.

http://www.martindoor.com/

Wayne Dalton out of business? *They still have a website and a garage
door company in our area (very reputable) sells both the Clopay and
Wayne Dalton garage doors. *Are you saying that Martin bought Wayne
Dalton and kept the Wayne Dalton name? *I'm not sure that I understand
exactly what it is that you are saying.

I'm saying my WD door was no longer available. *Calling numbers in
yellow pages MIGHT just direct you to another company that was bought
by another.

Got a link for WD doors? Where do they make them?

Here's the link. www.wayne-dalton.com
It says on the website that they are in Mt. Hope, Ohio.

rogerfisher wrote:
We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

You can get an energy tax credit for a GARAGE door?

How much can I get for insulating the dog house?

The inmates are in charge of the asylum!

In article , rogerfisher wrote:
We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each.

There's not a whole lot of difference between the brands.

Look at the construction. You'll find doors that have:

1. A single sheet of steel

2. A single sheet of steel with insulation and a sheet
of plastic on the inside.

3. Doors with insulation sandwiched between two sheets
of steel. These are more rigid and stronger.

You may find some low cost doors with much thinner metal.
And some expensive commerical grade doors with a heavier
gauge of steel.

Around here (SF Bay Area) you'll get a better deal and
a better job from the smaller local door companies than
you will from Home Depot, Lowes.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Aug 10, 11:33*pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article , rogerfisher wrote:

We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. *This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each.

There's not a whole lot of difference between the brands.

Look at the construction. You'll find doors that have:

1. A single sheet of steel

2. A single sheet of steel with insulation and a sheet
* *of plastic on the inside.

3. Doors with insulation sandwiched between two sheets
* *of steel. These are more rigid and stronger.

You may find some low cost doors with much thinner metal.
And some expensive commerical grade doors with a heavier
gauge of steel.

Around here (SF Bay Area) you'll get a better deal and
a better job from the smaller local door companies than
you will from Home Depot, Lowes.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar * * * * * "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/* * * * * * * Shpx gur PQN. * * * * * * * *|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are looking at doors with 2 sheets of steel and insulation
sandwiched between. The prices between the 3 brands are ranging
between $1400 - 1750 installed. I do see some difference between the
R Value. The Clopay has 6.8, the CHI has 8.5 and the Wayne Dalton has
10.

I know Clopay is a good door. I've always associated Wayne Dalton
with cheap doors, maybe because Lowe's sells them. However the Lowe's
doors are the low end doors, while the model we looked at is the
higher end door. I've never head of CHI until yesterday, but the
research we've done does indicates that it is a good door.

This is a lot of money to put into something for the house. We are
trying to do all our homework and, of course, get opinions from other
homeowners.

We will definitely buy the door and get it installed from a reputable
company.

Any opinions from anyone are needed and welcome!

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:39:07 -0700 (PDT), rogerfisher
wrote:

Here's the link. www.wayne-dalton.com
It says on the website that they are in Mt. Hope, Ohio.

Thanks! When I called around for a door, the companies did not carry
them and one said they went out of business. Checking the link I see
Lowe's sells them. I never looked for them there.
I still have a double door by WD.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:52:24 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

You can get an energy tax credit for a GARAGE door?

http://www.martindoor.com/Portals/0/...Tax-Credit.pdf

New 2009 Stimulus Legislation Expands U.S. Energy Tax Credits

On Aug 10, 10:52*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
rogerfisher wrote:
We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. *This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. *We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. *We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. *We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.

You can get an energy tax credit for a GARAGE door?

How much can I get for insulating the dog house?

The inmates are in charge of the asylum!

You can get an energy tax credit for a GARAGE door?

Here's a synopsis of the rules, and my expert interpretation of the
reason:

Stolen without permission form the EnergyStar website:

*** Begin Included Text ***

Garage doors installed in 2009 or 2010 may be eligible for a tax
credit of 30% up to $1,500 provided that the door is installed in or
on an insulated garage as a component of the taxpayer’s principal
residence (does not need to be attached), the garage door meets the
other requirements of the tax credit (i.e. it has a U-factor= 0.3 and
a SHGC= 0.3), and the garage door is certified by the manufacturer.

An insulated garage is one where the outside walls are insulated.

Installation costs are NOT covered for garage doors, just the cost of
the garage door itself is covered.

ENERGY STAR does not label garage doors.

*** End Included Text ***

My expert interpretation of the reason:

So, why would you insulate a garage?

1 - It's attached an insulated because the owner wants an extra
barrier against the weather. (It may or may not be climate
controlled.)
2 - It's unattached but climate controlled for reasons only the owner
knows.

In either case, a garage door that improves the (1) weather barrier
and/or (2) saves energy in the climate controlled cases, should be
just as eligible as the entry door or windows of the house itself.

Obviously, giving a tax credit for a door on an uninsulated garage
wouldn't make sense.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

In either case, a garage door that improves the (1) weather barrier
and/or (2) saves energy in the climate controlled cases, should be
just as eligible as the entry door or windows of the house itself.

Obviously, giving a tax credit for a door on an uninsulated garage
wouldn't make sense.

In my view, neither would an insulated garage door. Even if an attached
garage, what's the R value of 20 feet of dead air? Whatever the insulation
on the door might be, it's got to be negligible in comparison.

On Aug 11, 3:26*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

In either case, a garage door that improves the (1) weather barrier
and/or (2) saves energy in the climate controlled cases, should be
just as eligible as the entry door or windows of the house itself.

Obviously, giving a tax credit for a door on an uninsulated garage
wouldn't make sense.

In my view, neither would an insulated garage door. Even if an attached
garage, what's the R value of 20 feet of dead air? Whatever the insulation
on the door might be, it's got to be negligible in comparison.

Unless it's a completed sealed garage, with an air lock system between
the house and the garage, I seriously doubt it's dead air.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:44:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:44:08 -0700, Oren wrote:

New 2009 Stimulus Legislation Expands U.S. Energy Tax Credits

... but they robbed $2 billion from that program to renew the clunker
program so you better hurry.

Does that mean they will issue me an IOU?

On Aug 11, 6:44*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:44:08 -0700, Oren wrote:
New 2009 Stimulus Legislation Expands U.S. Energy Tax Credits

... but they robbed $2 billion from that program to renew the clunker
program so you better hurry.

If I promise to keep my clunker locked behind the new garage door, can
I get the tax credit *and* the $4500?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:26 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

In either case, a garage door that improves the (1) weather barrier
and/or (2) saves energy in the climate controlled cases, should be
just as eligible as the entry door or windows of the house itself.

Obviously, giving a tax credit for a door on an uninsulated garage
wouldn't make sense.

In my view, neither would an insulated garage door. Even if an
attached garage, what's the R value of 20 feet of dead air? Whatever
the insulation on the door might be, it's got to be negligible in
comparison.

Unless it's a completed sealed garage, with an air lock system between
the house and the garage, I seriously doubt it's dead air.

If the garage is NOT adequately sealed, then what the hell good is an
insulated door?

If the garage IS sealed, insulating the door would be redundant.

I've seen donuts with more brains than some federal regulators.

On Aug 12, 8:58*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:26 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

In either case, a garage door that improves the (1) weather barrier
and/or (2) saves energy in the climate controlled cases, should be
just as eligible as the entry door or windows of the house itself.

Obviously, giving a tax credit for a door on an uninsulated garage
wouldn't make sense.

In my view, neither would an insulated garage door. Even if an
attached garage, what's the R value of 20 feet of dead air? Whatever
the insulation on the door might be, it's got to be negligible in
comparison.

Unless it's a completed sealed garage, with an air lock system between
the house and the garage, I seriously doubt it's dead air.

If the garage is NOT adequately sealed, then what the hell good is an
insulated door?

If the garage is insulated, but not "adequately sealed" between the
garage and the house, then an insulated door makes all the sense in
the world. The other option is a well sealed door and wall between the
house and the garage, which is also eligible for some credit. Granted,
getting the credit for _both_ would be ridiculous, unless the garage
is climate controlled as a separate space.

For example, let's say the door and wall between my garage and house
are not as well insulated as they should be. The wall between the
house and garage is finished on both sides, but the other three outer
walls of the garage are not. Let's further assume that the garage is
not climate controlled as a separate space, but merely through
"leakage" from the house. I have 2 options:

1 - Get a new entry door, open the finished wall and insulate it and
take whatever credit I get for doing that.
2 - Get an insulated garage door, insulate the 3 open garage walls and
take whatever credit I get for doing that.

In either case I've upgraded the envelope, so I should be eligible for
the credit.

If the garage IS sealed, insulating the door would be redundant.

Unless the space is climate controlled. If the garage is being heated
or cooled, then insulating the door would save energy and be worthy of
the credit.

Again, think about why a garage would be insulated. Either it's
climate controlled as a separate space or quasi-climate controlled
because of an inadequate seal to the house. In either case, insulating
the door would save energy.


I've seen donuts with more brains than some federal regulators.

Now, a tax credit for donuts would be nice g

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 8:58 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:26 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

In either case, a garage door that improves the (1) weather barrier
and/or (2) saves energy in the climate controlled cases, should be
just as eligible as the entry door or windows of the house itself.

Obviously, giving a tax credit for a door on an uninsulated garage
wouldn't make sense.

In my view, neither would an insulated garage door. Even if an
attached garage, what's the R value of 20 feet of dead air? Whatever
the insulation on the door might be, it's got to be negligible in
comparison.

Unless it's a completed sealed garage, with an air lock system between
the house and the garage, I seriously doubt it's dead air.

If the garage is NOT adequately sealed, then what the hell good is an
insulated door?

If the garage is insulated, but not "adequately sealed" between the
garage and the house, then an insulated door makes all the sense in
the world. The other option is a well sealed door and wall between the
house and the garage, which is also eligible for some credit. Granted,
getting the credit for _both_ would be ridiculous, unless the garage
is climate controlled as a separate space.

For example, let's say the door and wall between my garage and house
are not as well insulated as they should be. The wall between the
house and garage is finished on both sides, but the other three outer
walls of the garage are not. Let's further assume that the garage is
not climate controlled as a separate space, but merely through
"leakage" from the house. I have 2 options:

1 - Get a new entry door, open the finished wall and insulate it and
take whatever credit I get for doing that.
2 - Get an insulated garage door, insulate the 3 open garage walls and
take whatever credit I get for doing that.

In either case I've upgraded the envelope, so I should be eligible for
the credit.

If the garage IS sealed, insulating the door would be redundant.

Unless the space is climate controlled. If the garage is being heated
or cooled, then insulating the door would save energy and be worthy of
the credit.

Again, think about why a garage would be insulated. Either it's
climate controlled as a separate space or quasi-climate controlled
because of an inadequate seal to the house. In either case, insulating
the door would save energy.


I've seen donuts with more brains than some federal regulators.

Now, a tax credit for donuts would be nice g

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seeing ALOT of insulated garages heated with a Modine or radiant in floor
heat in attached garages now days....Which is good for me as I get to
sheetrock and fininsh tape the garage as well as the house...Doesn't look
much like a garage though being a finished room with a fancy floor...Gotta
keep the Lexus and Landcruiser warm though.....My garage is unfinished even
though I could do it easy and CHEAP but then it wouldn't be a garage...I
need a place to work in without fearing SWMBO's wrath for making a mess....A
few minutes with the push broom and it's done...The garage is mine and the
house is hers and if I finish the garage it will become part of the
house...LOL...

Garagedoors1 had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-388394-.htm :

rogerfisher wrote:


We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.


-------------------------------------




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Garagedoors1 had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-388394-.htm :
Most manufacturers make both high quality doors as well as lower cost
doors so be sure you explore the quality of the materials during your
purchase. Things like the steel gauge of face skin and back skin, R value
and insulation type or Gauge of hinges. Consider if the manufacturer uses
off the shelf components such as C.H.I and Clopay, or if they use
proprietary systems like Wayne dalton does... If your Wayne Dalton Door
breaks, you will be limited to Wayne Dalton dealers for parts and
service... Others have parts that are interchangeable which gives you
more choices for service and parts...


Compare prices with an installing dealer before you buy from the home
improvement big box stores. You may pay extra to have them in the middle
of your purchase. Using a professional installation company makes a huge
difference from selecting the right door to having it installed properly.
The very best dealers are “IDEA accredited”. Check out
www.dooreducation.com for answers to door questions. Also see another door
industry site http://garagewownow.com.

The manufacturer sites are helpful too for making the right design and
application choice. You dealer may be able to take a digital picture of
your home and place pictures of different doors on it to show you what
different designs can do for the curb appeal of your home. It’s a neat
tool the manufacturers provide their dealers. Like trying on a new pair
of shoes before you buy them...

Warranties varies widely among manufacturers too. Your warranty is
supported by the dealer AND the manufacturer, the dealer is only as good
as the comapny behind them and for that reason I would choose a C.H.I.
door and dealer, C.H.I. Overhead Doors delivers high quality products and
C.H.I. makes it very easy for your dealer to take care of any warranty
issues.

See their web page for video on how to select your next garage door.
chiohd.com

Good luck.



rogerfisher wrote:


We are looking at 3 different garage doors for our house. This is a
replacement.

Clopay - 4050 Series
Wayne Dalton - 9600 Series
CHI - 2285 Series

What are the pros and cons of each. We want a good, sturdy insulated
door with windows. We want one that will qualify for the energy tax
credit. We know very little about garage doors and need all the help
we can get.


-------------------------------------




##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 370374 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##