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Default How to kill those "Klunkers"

On Aug 6, 2:16*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 07:00:22 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Sodium Silicate.


The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for Clunkers"
program be permanently disabled and specifies that the method used is to
replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the engine until it freezes.


This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One company that
sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already sold 15,000 gallons!


From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html


What ever happened to the "reuse" concept to be green and save the
planet?


How do you suggest that we reuse, in an evironmentally friendly way,
the engine from an old gas guzzler?
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We're not allowed to question the government's judgement,
any more. After all, anyone who opposes President Herr Obama
(you know, Barry....) must be racist and Anti American. And,
as Obama pranced back and forth, his little curly tail
whisked back and forth in a manner that was somehow most
appealling. In his most strained voice, he said "Surely, you
don't want Jones to come back?" and the barnyard animals
were quiet. Even Boxer, the oldest of them all, could not
answer that question. In the distance, there was sounds of a
party happening at the manor farm house. Humans had been
seen. Rolling a barrel of something into the back of the
farm house. Obama explained, simply, that the humans were
merely doing some repairs to the structure of the house.
There was nothing to be suspicious about.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Phisherman" wrote in message
...

What ever happened to the "reuse" concept to be green and
save the
planet?


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Default How to kill those "Klunkers"

Load the vehicle with Mexicans, and send it south.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

How do you suggest that we reuse, in an evironmentally
friendly way,
the engine from an old gas guzzler?


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Default How to kill those "Klunkers"

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 6, 2:16 pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 07:00:22 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for Clunkers"
program be permanently disabled and specifies that the method used is to
replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One company that
sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html

What ever happened to the "reuse" concept to be green and save the
planet?


How do you suggest that we reuse, in an evironmentally friendly way,
the engine from an old gas guzzler?


Newspaper here said around 2/3 of the vehicles being murdered are trucks
and such. Plenty of broke tradesmen out there who would like a newer
truck than the even-older one they are driving. Even with the $4500
check (which is probably added back to the price of a new car), there
are a lot of people out there that can't afford to buy new. When you are
thinning a herd, you don't kill the middle-age ones, you kill the oldest
and sickest. There is a lot of iron driving around on the streets here
that is even older and more polluting than the vehicles being destroyed.
They should at least SORT the trade-ins, and give the ones with usable
life left in them to Goodwill 'Wheels to Work' and similar programs,
that give cars to people so they can get jobs and get off welfare. For
people that have nothing but shoes, even a 15 mpg car looks pretty damn
good, if it means they can get to and from work. Don't worry, the
pending return of $4 gas will keep them from driving anywhere but to
work and the grocery store. If there is no local donation program, have
a first-come, first-serve swap arrangement, where people with NO money,
can bring in an older and higher mileage car, and let that take the
place of the one on the condemned list. Only destroy the oldest and
crappiest ones.

Call me a luddite- destroying working tools and equipment is a sin, and
bad for the environment. 'Use it up, wear it out', etc.

--
aem sends...
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On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:47:06 -0700 (PDT), in alt.home.repair, DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Aug 6, 2:16=A0pm, Phisherman wrote:
What ever happened to the "reuse" concept to be green and save the
planet?


How do you suggest that we reuse, in an evironmentally friendly way,
the engine from an old gas guzzler?


Drive it. Seriously. Driving an old gas guzzler 50,000 miles has less
impact on the environment than building a new car.

Of course some of these "old gas guzzlers" being destroyed by the CARS
program might have got as good or better fuel economy than a new car.
Didn't the VW diesels of the mid-80s get 60+ MPG? Where can I buy a new car
today that gets 60+ MPG?

CARS: Just another corporate welfare program.

--
Due to Usenet spam, emailed replies must pass an intelligence test: if
you want me to read your reply, be sure to include this line of text in
your email, but remove this line before sending, otherwise my filters
will delete your email with all due prejudice. Thanks!


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"Phisherman" wrote in message

What ever happened to the "reuse" concept to be green and save the
planet?


It is being re-used. The scrap metal will go to China and in a couple of
months we'll have new toasters and can openers made from '84 Gran Marquis.


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On Aug 4, 8:54*am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.


The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html


I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.


Jon


This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
* Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K
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On Aug 4, 11:25*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:03*pm, wrote:

On Aug 4, 11:44*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:


I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.


Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED, there is nothing the government can
do to prevent less scrupulous dealers and other shady profiteers from
double-dipping by collecting the CARS rebate, then turning around and
selling the trade-in clunker for Kelly Blue Book price. Heck from some
accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are showing up on auction
lots, running and driving under their own power already. Anything but
the total destruction of the tradeins leaves that loophole.


"Heck from some accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are
showing up on auction lots, running and driving under their own power
already"

Cite please.

"Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED..."

The program requires that the engine be destroyed and the vehicle
labled attesting that fact. If the dealers are getting around that
requirement, then what will stop them from getting around the
requirement that the entire vehicle be destroyed?

But really, please provide a cite for the "some accounts" you
mentioned.


Thus far I have seen nothing that says the entire vehicle must be
destroyed. Only the engine has been mentioned. I have been wondering
what would keep someone from buying the "hulk" after engine
destruction and putting a new motor in it.

Harry K
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harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 11:25 am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:03 pm, wrote:

On Aug 4, 11:44 am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:


I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a
person, but having learned the ways of thrift and economy from
grandparents who survived the great depression of 1929, I can't
help but see this as a total waste of otherwise useful resources.


Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED, there is nothing the government
can do to prevent less scrupulous dealers and other shady
profiteers from double-dipping by collecting the CARS rebate, then
turning around and selling the trade-in clunker for Kelly Blue Book
price. Heck from some accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are
showing up on auction lots, running and driving under their own
power already. Anything but the total destruction of the tradeins
leaves that loophole.


"Heck from some accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are
showing up on auction lots, running and driving under their own power
already"

Cite please.

"Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED..."

The program requires that the engine be destroyed and the vehicle
labled attesting that fact. If the dealers are getting around that
requirement, then what will stop them from getting around the
requirement that the entire vehicle be destroyed?

But really, please provide a cite for the "some accounts" you
mentioned.


Thus far I have seen nothing that says the entire vehicle must be
destroyed. Only the engine has been mentioned. I have been wondering
what would keep someone from buying the "hulk" after engine
destruction and putting a new motor in it.


The "clunker's" VIN is recorded as junked. The car cannot be registered.

BUT if you have a corresponding model, you can transfer the engine and VIN
tag to the cluncker and you're good to go. Probably. For a while, anyway.


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On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:30:57 -0700 (PDT), harry k
wrote:

On Aug 4, 11:25*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:03*pm, wrote:

On Aug 4, 11:44*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:


I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.


Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED, there is nothing the government can
do to prevent less scrupulous dealers and other shady profiteers from
double-dipping by collecting the CARS rebate, then turning around and
selling the trade-in clunker for Kelly Blue Book price. Heck from some
accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are showing up on auction
lots, running and driving under their own power already. Anything but
the total destruction of the tradeins leaves that loophole.


"Heck from some accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are
showing up on auction lots, running and driving under their own power
already"

Cite please.

"Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED..."

The program requires that the engine be destroyed and the vehicle
labled attesting that fact. If the dealers are getting around that
requirement, then what will stop them from getting around the
requirement that the entire vehicle be destroyed?

But really, please provide a cite for the "some accounts" you
mentioned.


Thus far I have seen nothing that says the entire vehicle must be
destroyed. Only the engine has been mentioned. I have been wondering
what would keep someone from buying the "hulk" after engine
destruction and putting a new motor in it.

Harry K


Well, generally speaking, the cars traded in are probably worth less
than the $4500 bonus. That's why it was so attractive to trade them
in. The vast majority of the clunkers are not WORTH installing a new
engine. Prices for big gas guzzlers are extremely depressed already.



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On Aug 7, 8:05�am, Kurt Ullman wrote:


� Technically it is a union (UAW) welfare plan. These are Democrats we
are talking about afterall. Please try to remember who has bought of
which party (g).


well it has gotten the auto companies selling vehicles again.

if government had done nothing we would be in a depression today.

although this serious recession has probably changed behavior for at
least a generation.

unlimited credit isnt a health thing.......
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And, our toast will taste like sodium silicate for the first
few slices.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

It is being re-used. The scrap metal will go to China and
in a couple of
months we'll have new toasters and can openers made from '84
Gran Marquis.



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Stormin Mormon wrote:
And, our toast will taste like sodium silicate for the first
few slices.

Remember what the Japs did with our empty beer cans before WW2.
History can repeat and usually does.
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harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon

This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


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On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.
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In article , AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person,

but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who

survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste

of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted

text -

- Show quoted text -

Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


So where do *you* think the money is coming from?
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Actually, I don't remember. Maybe you'll be kind enough to
tell us.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Chuck" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
And, our toast will taste like sodium silicate for the
first
few slices.

Remember what the Japs did with our empty beer cans before
WW2.
History can repeat and usually does.


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AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


No strawman involved. They ran through the first billion and Obama said
they "found" more money to keep the program going.

And just to give you a chance to enlighten us apparently confused folks
where exactly does he actually get the money to pay for these programs?
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bob haller wrote:
On Aug 7, 8:05�am, Kurt Ullman wrote:

� Technically it is a union (UAW) welfare plan. These are Democrats we
are talking about afterall. Please try to remember who has bought of
which party (g).


well it has gotten the auto companies selling vehicles again.

if government had done nothing we would be in a depression today.


You know this how? That was certainly the spin when the government said
they had to act immediately to transfer wealth to their owners but who
knows what would have actually happened.


although this serious recession has probably changed behavior for at
least a generation.

unlimited credit isnt a health thing.......



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although this serious recession has probably changed behavior for at
least a generation.

unlimited credit isnt a health thing.......


Missed this the first time through. Anyone else think this is just too
ironic for words given... well unlimited credit.. of the government and
Fed.

--
Searching is half the fun: life is much more manageable when thought
of as a scavenger hunt as opposed to a surprise party.
Jimmy Buffett
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On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:00:36 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person,

but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who

survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste

of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted

text -

- Show quoted text -

Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


So where do *you* think the money is coming from?

Irrelevent.
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On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:28:34 -0400, George wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


No strawman involved. They ran through the first billion and Obama said
they "found" more money to keep the program going.


And just to give you a chance to enlighten us apparently confused folks
where exactly does he actually get the money to pay for these programs?


Please provide the time and place where obama said "I found this money
someplace"
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Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George
wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run
the engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has
already sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a
person,

but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents
who

survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a
total waste

of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it
is there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it
later. How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars
they are buying? Remember all the homes that they bought and
couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide
quoted

text -

- Show quoted text -

Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those
bonuses. I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new
car.

Harry K


You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found
this money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


So where do *you* think the money is coming from?


So where do you think the cars are going?

Just came across this and thought it might be of interest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8188267.stm



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Stormin Mormon wrote:
Actually, I don't remember. Maybe you'll be kind enough to
tell us.


They made toys and other stuff. It was all marked: "Made in Occupied Japan."




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AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:28:34 -0400, George wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K
You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..
Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


No strawman involved. They ran through the first billion and Obama said
they "found" more money to keep the program going.


And just to give you a chance to enlighten us apparently confused folks
where exactly does he actually get the money to pay for these programs?


Please provide the time and place where obama said "I found this money
someplace"


Around 5:30 on Wednesday at a local pizza shop that happened to have a
TV on. It was the typical liberal "I am such a uber smart person and
found money to do this" comment. No clue where he happened to be
speaking. The "found" referred to some shell game move it from someplace
else deal.

Please answer my question about where he actually gets the money to pay
for these programs?
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On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:52:54 -0400, George wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:28:34 -0400, George wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K
You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..
Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


No strawman involved. They ran through the first billion and Obama said
they "found" more money to keep the program going.


And just to give you a chance to enlighten us apparently confused folks
where exactly does he actually get the money to pay for these programs?


Please provide the time and place where obama said "I found this money
someplace"


Around 5:30 on Wednesday at a local pizza shop that happened to have a
TV on. It was the typical liberal "I am such a uber smart person and
found money to do this" comment. No clue where he happened to be
speaking. The "found" referred to some shell game move it from someplace
else deal.


Please answer my question about where he actually gets the money to pay
for these programs?


Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does:
they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be explained to you?
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In 4a7b8019.643089231@localhost,
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:47:06 -0700 (PDT), in alt.home.repair, DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Aug 6, 2:16=A0pm, Phisherman wrote:
What ever happened to the "reuse" concept to be green and save the
planet?


How do you suggest that we reuse, in an evironmentally friendly way,
the engine from an old gas guzzler?


Drive it. Seriously. Driving an old gas guzzler 50,000 miles has less
impact on the environment than building a new car.


How about, for example, an early 1970's Caddilac getting 10 MPG? That's
5,000 gallons of gasoline, should any 1970's Caddilacs be able to run
another 50,000 miles.

5,000 gallons of gasoline is about 120 barrels. Crude has been around
$70 at some recent time or another, meaning energy cost of about $8,000.

Of course, cars with better efficiency than a 1974 DeVille will consume
less than $8,000 of energy (before fuel taxes) to drive 50,000 miles, but
still quite a few thousand dollars.

Do you really think that much is spent on energy to build a new car,
with so much of its cost to dealer going to wages and salaries and perks,
worker benefits, corporate taxes, liability insurance, advertising, etc.?
I hope this gives some idea on energy consumption by manufacturing.

Also consider the fact that older cars, even for a given amount of
energy consumption, produce plenty of pollution. Modern steel mills
and electric generating stations are comparatively clean, since it's
mainly internal combustion combustion engines that produce nitrogen oxides
and hydrocarbon vapors that are essential for the formation of the worst
air pollutant in densely populated areas - lower atmospheric ozone.

- Don Klipstein )
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In article , George wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:


SNIP to here to edit for space

You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..


Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


No strawman involved. They ran through the first billion and Obama said
they "found" more money to keep the program going.

And just to give you a chance to enlighten us apparently confused folks
where exactly does he actually get the money to pay for these programs?


It will come from you and me. It's our money.

Meanwhile, one question I think worth asking is: How much value did the
cars being clunkerjunked have above their scrap value?
If that exceeds how much more they would have cost to operate through
the remainders of their natural lives than their replacements would cost
for same miles, then America as a whole is losing from the destruction of
these cars. (Decrease the fuel cost difference by the loss of the portion
of fuel taxes actually used to effectively serve the taxpayers.)

I would have had this program changed to require a bigger upgrade in
fuel economy, minimum of either 70% MPG improvement or both 9 MPG
improvement and 50% MPG improvement by the new car over the destroyed one.

(I would have improvement by 50-69% but by under 9 MPG qualify for a
smaller rebate, to provide an incentive to take an easily available larger
improvement.)

- Don Klipstein )
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"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does:
they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be
explained to you?


Who cares what he said or did not say. Fact is, this is a redistribution of
wealth plan. Short lived (hopefully) program to take our money and help buy
new cars for others. Not much different than a Ponzi scheme where we all
pay in and a handful of us grab the money and run.




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In article ,
AZ Nomad wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:28:34 -0400, George wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:37:10 -0400, George wrote:
harry k wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:54 am, Chuck wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Sodium Silicate.
The government mandates that cars traded in under the "Cash for
Clunkers" program be permanently disabled and specifies that the
method used is to replace the oil with Sodium Silicate then run the
engine until it freezes.
This has caught the suppliers of the substance by surprise. One
company that sold maybe 150 gallons of the stuff a year has already
sold 15,000 gallons!
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html
I'm not exactly what you would call a die hard "green" kind of a
person, but
having learned the ways of thrift and economy from grandparents who
survived
the great depression of 1929, I can't help but see this as a total
waste of
otherwise useful resources.
Jon
This also feeds the greed of today's citizen. They forget that it is
there own tax money that's being spent. We will all pay for it later.
How many of the buyers actually can afford the new cars they are
buying?
Remember all the homes that they bought and couldn't keep. Will they
be working next week or next month. I doubt it. Party on!!!- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Very few posts mention that _you and I_ are paying out those bonuses.
I hope my neighbor appreciates me helping him buy a new car.

Harry K

You seem awfully confused. Obama told us that the government found this
money someplace and he is a really smart guy..

Except that he never said any such thing. You need to develop some
more plausible lies if you're going to use strawmen as your primary
argumentative style.


No strawman involved. They ran through the first billion and Obama said
they "found" more money to keep the program going.


And just to give you a chance to enlighten us apparently confused folks
where exactly does he actually get the money to pay for these programs?


Please provide the time and place where obama said "I found this money
someplace"


Skip it AZ. a.h.r. is swarming with Fox "news" and Rush fans, not to
mention bible thumpers. Yer better off keeping it on topic, which is
home repair.
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In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does:
they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be
explained to you?


Who cares what he said or did not say. Fact is, this is a redistribution of
wealth plan. Short lived (hopefully) program to take our money and help buy
new cars for others. Not much different than a Ponzi scheme where we all
pay in and a handful of us grab the money and run.


I have always thought that calling anything the government did a
Ponzi scheme was an insult to Ponzi. At least he got his "investors" to
kick in voluntarily. Try to avoid paying taxes and see how voluntary
that is.

--
Searching is half the fun: life is much more manageable when thought
of as a scavenger hunt as opposed to a surprise party.
Jimmy Buffett
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does:
they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be
explained to you?


Who cares what he said or did not say. Fact is, this is a redistribution of
wealth plan. Short lived (hopefully) program to take our money and help buy
new cars for others. Not much different than a Ponzi scheme where we all
pay in and a handful of us grab the money and run.


It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".
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On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:00:46 -0400, George wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does:
they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be
explained to you?


Who cares what he said or did not say. Fact is, this is a redistribution of
wealth plan. Short lived (hopefully) program to take our money and help buy
new cars for others. Not much different than a Ponzi scheme where we all
pay in and a handful of us grab the money and run.


It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".


Can't you argue a point without introducing strawmen?
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AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:00:46 -0400, George wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
Irrelevent. The claim was that he said "I found this money someplace"

As far as the source, it is the same as everything else congress does:
they pay by taxing and borrowing. Is this something that has to be
explained to you?
Who cares what he said or did not say. Fact is, this is a redistribution of
wealth plan. Short lived (hopefully) program to take our money and help buy
new cars for others. Not much different than a Ponzi scheme where we all
pay in and a handful of us grab the money and run.


It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".


Can't you argue a point without introducing strawmen?


Sure, and I did. This thread regarded liberal thinking (in case you
didn't notice liberals control the entire Federal government). So my
comment about typical liberal thinking is quite valid. I did notice that
you seem to like to declaring things are "irrelevent" when they are
touching a nerve.


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"George" wrote in message
It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".


They found it in our pockets


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On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:44:57 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"George" wrote in message
It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".


They found it in our pockets



as opposed to? Do anybody really need it explained that govt. either
taxes or borrows?
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AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:44:57 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"George" wrote in message
It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".


They found it in our pockets



as opposed to? Do anybody really need it explained that govt. either
taxes or borrows?


Well, lately, they are doing the electronic equivalent of just running
the printing presses. And the world is noticing- the exchange rates
against the other major currencies are going down. Bankers know a
defacto devaluation when they see it.

Things will probably hold together, sort of, for the 20 or 30 years I
probably have left. But I fear what middle age holds for my little niece
and nephew. Good thing their daddy is teaching them how to to plant and
grow veggies on a production basis, and tend chickens. At least they
won't starve.

--
aem sends....
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In article ,
aemeijers wrote:


Things will probably hold together, sort of, for the 20 or 30 years I
probably have left. But I fear what middle age holds for my little niece
and nephew. Good thing their daddy is teaching them how to to plant and
grow veggies on a production basis, and tend chickens. At least they
won't starve.

We'll be the North American Britain by then. Basking in our former
glory, doing okay but not as good as in our hay-day, and plugging along.

--
Searching is half the fun: life is much more manageable when thought
of as a scavenger hunt as opposed to a surprise party.
Jimmy Buffett
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On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:30:48 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:44:57 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"George" wrote in message
It was just a comment on typical liberal thinking who can't seem to
describe where the money comes from so they need to use a metaphor like
"we found it".


They found it in our pockets



as opposed to? Do anybody really need it explained that govt. either
taxes or borrows?


Well, lately, they are doing the electronic equivalent of just running
the printing presses. And the world is noticing- the exchange rates


That would be an improvement over the insane borrowing. Both devalue
the money, but the latter requires payback.

I predicted raging inflation a decade ago; how else can the U.S. deal
with the ten trillion dollar debt? Made it worth the equivelent of 100
billion!
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