I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:

I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.


No, you aren't On top of the numbers you posted, you also have to take into
account that tankless heaters require recurring maintenance and will liely
require a larger electrical service or gas supply.

That's why 99% of the residential hot water systems in this country are storage
tank.

There are situations where tankless heaters make sense, but overall economics
rarely favor tankless.

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
JIMMIE wrote:

I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I
took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from
the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something
here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.


No, you aren't On top of the numbers you posted, you also have to
take into
account that tankless heaters require recurring maintenance and will
liely
require a larger electrical service or gas supply.

That's why 99% of the residential hot water systems in this country
are storage
tank.

There are situations where tankless heaters make sense, but overall
economics
rarely favor tankless.

I mis-posted this on the computer question thread. They probably think
I'm "tanked".

An architect/homebuilder by the name of Tom Tynon writes a column in
the Houston Chronicle. You could probably find the one of this past
week in which he advocates a "booster" tank to go along with a
tanked
(in my college days that meant something else) water heater. The
picture showed what looked like a small tankless unit. Said it
provided instant, constant hot water as it somehow signaled the tank
to heat up more water. ??????

On Jul 29, 4:17*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

If you only pay 20 a month that isnt much, I paid 470 for a bosch
tankless and put it in myself, gas bill in summer is under 10$, I
still figure I got a 4-5 year payback 8 yrs ago, so im ahead. How much
of that 20$ is cooking and dryer, my unit is a single use, the big
ones cost alot more and all usualy need gas line modifications.

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie


Please read the Consumer Reports article on tankless heaters. They
are expensive to buy and maintain. I decide not to get one because
they require periodic descaling, don't work at all during power
outages, and they have the "cold-water sandwich" issue. Most
Americans have tank water heaters. The tankless does save some
energy, but IMO not enough.

On Jul 29, 7:24*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE

wrote:
I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

Please read the Consumer Reports article on tankless heaters. *They
are expensive to buy and maintain. *I decide not to get one because
they require periodic descaling, don't work at all during power
outages, and they have the "cold-water sandwich" issue. *Most
Americans have tank water heaters. *The tankless does save some
energy, but IMO not enough.

What is the "cold-water sandwich" problem?

On Jul 29, 5:17*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

Tankless work best in situations where there is little usage. One or
two people that travel a lot for example. If you use hot water
everyday and have a number of people living in your house then the
regular tank is the way to go. Sort of a middle ground is a timer
switch that turns off your hot water tank during part of the day. My
wife and I had one of those in our twonhouse in dc when we were both
dinks. Lots of days we hardly used the hot water except in the
morning.

On Jul 30, 12:26*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 29, 5:17*pm, JIMMIE wrote:

I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

Tankless work best in situations where there is little usage. *One or
two people that travel a lot for example.
*If you use hot water
everyday and have a number of people living in your house then the
regular tank is the way to go.

Why would that be? The main energy savings of a tankless comes from
the elimination of the heat loss from the tank which is going on 24/7
regardless of how much water is used or how frequently.


*Sort of a middle ground is a timer
switch that turns off your hot water tank during part of the day.

The energy savings are going to be very small, not enough to justify
the cost and trouble of installing a timer. The tank is well
insulated and the temp will only decline by a small amount if it's
shut off during part of the day. Maybe not even enough to have it
fire up again. Even during power outages, tank water heaters stay hot
for a long time, unless you are using the water. The only time a
timer on a water heater makes sense is if you can take advantage of a
seperate meter and lower off-peak electric costs for an electric water
heater.



*My
wife and I had one of those in our twonhouse in dc when we were both
dinks. *Lots of days we hardly used the hot water except in the
morning.

On Jul 30, 12:52*pm, wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:26*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jul 29, 5:17*pm, JIMMIE wrote:

I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

Tankless work best in situations where there is little usage. *One or
two people that travel a lot for example.
*If you use hot water
everyday and have a number of people living in your house then the
regular tank is the way to go.

Why would that be? * *The main energy savings of a tankless comes from
the elimination of the heat loss from the tank which is going on 24/7
regardless of how much water is used or how frequently.

*Sort of a middle ground is a timer
switch that turns off your hot water tank during part of the day.

The energy savings are going to be very small, not enough to justify
the cost and trouble of installing a timer. * *The tank is well
insulated and the temp will only decline by a small amount if it's
shut off during part of the day. * Maybe not even enough to have it
fire up again. Even during power outages, tank water heaters stay hot
for a long time, unless you are using the water. *The only time a
timer on a water heater makes sense is if you can take advantage of a
seperate meter and lower off-peak electric costs for an electric water
heater.



*My
wife and I had one of those in our twonhouse in dc when we were both
dinks. *Lots of days we hardly used the hot water except in the
morning.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just read some info that say that the comparisons of tanked to
tankless heaters arent exactly apples to apples to apples.
Tanked heaters were paired with American use( 30 minute showers) while
tankless heaters were compared with Asian use( 1 minute to get wet
turn the water off and soap up then another minute to rinse). I bet I
could save 10 to 20% just by changing the way I take a shower.

Jimmie

"JIMMIE" wrote in message

Tanked heaters were paired with American use( 30 minute showers)

??? I'm an American and I know NO people who take 30 minute showers. That's
completely insane. I can wash my body, wash and condition my waist length
hair, and shave my legs in a 5 minute shower.

In article , "h"
wrote:

"JIMMIE" wrote in message

Tanked heaters were paired with American use( 30 minute showers)

??? I'm an American and I know NO people who take 30 minute showers. That's
completely insane. I can wash my body, wash and condition my waist length
hair, and shave my legs in a 5 minute shower.

My favorite conservation billboard a few years back was a guy in a
shower, with the caption "Sing shorter songs."

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:35:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jul 29, 7:24*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE

wrote:
I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

Please read the Consumer Reports article on tankless heaters. *They
are expensive to buy and maintain. *I decide not to get one because
they require periodic descaling, don't work at all during power
outages, and they have the "cold-water sandwich" issue. *Most
Americans have tank water heaters. *The tankless does save some
energy, but IMO not enough.

What is the "cold-water sandwich" problem?


Apparantly, tankless heaters may not heat a portion of the stream of
water. You get hot, then a short time of cold, then hot again. It is
mentioned in Consumer Reports. Not a big deal unless the water is
pouring down your back!

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:15:54 -0400, "h"
wrote:


"JIMMIE" wrote in message

Tanked heaters were paired with American use( 30 minute showers)

??? I'm an American and I know NO people who take 30 minute showers. That's
completely insane. I can wash my body, wash and condition my waist length
hair, and shave my legs in a 5 minute shower.



Teh only time I take a shower more than 10 minutes is for muscle
strain, back ache, knee surgery, etc. The pulsating shower heads can
take away some kinds of pain, quickly and easily. In that case, I
would take a longer shower.

On 2009-07-30, Phisherman wrote:

Apparantly, tankless heaters may not heat a portion of the stream of
water. You get hot, then a short time of cold, then hot again. It
is mentioned in Consumer Reports. Not a big deal unless the water
is pouring down your back!

This occurs when you use the hot water, shut it off, and use it again.
For example if you take a shower right after someone else. There is a
few second latency for the burners to reignite, and so you get a short
slug of colder water. It comes out some time after you start the
second use, depending on how long the pipes are from the tankless
heater to the point of use. Of course, if you wait a while between
uses, all the water in the pipes will have cooled, so you won't notice
the extra bit of cool water.

Cheers, Wayne

"h" wrote:


"JIMMIE" wrote in message

Tanked heaters were paired with American use( 30 minute showers)

??? I'm an American and I know NO people who take 30 minute showers.

You haven't met my youngest daughter...

-- Doug

On Jul 29, 2:17*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

Another thing to consider is that a tank provides you with emergency
drinking water in the case of a natural or man-made disaster.

On Jul 29, 6:13*pm, ransley wrote:
On Jul 29, 4:17*pm, JIMMIE wrote:

I was thinking of replacing my NG water heater with one of the new
tankless ones until I saw the price, about 2K bucks installed. I took
a look at my gas bill for the summer months and figure my current
water heater is costing me about $220 a year to operated and from the
manufacturere info I could save 10 to 20 per cent if I got with the
tankless unit or 22 to 44 dollars a year. Am I missing something here?
This doesnt seem worthwhile at all. The thing would probably need
replacing before I ever reached a break even point.

Jimmie

If you only pay 20 a month that isnt much, I paid 470 for a bosch
tankless and put it in myself, gas bill in summer is under 10$, I
still figure I got a 4-5 year payback 8 yrs ago, so im ahead. How much
of that 20$ is cooking and dryer, my unit is a single use, the big
ones cost alot more and all usualy need gas line modifications.

I avarage 3.5 people here, My teenage daughter has a steady flow of
friends over

Jimmie

On Aug 1, 9:14*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
h wrote:
"JIMMIE" wrote in message

Tanked heaters were paired with American use( 30 minute showers)

??? I'm an American and I know NO people who take 30 minute showers. That's
completely insane. I can wash my body, wash and condition my waist length
hair, and shave my legs in a 5 minute shower.

How long does it take to soap up and rinse off? 5 minutes at the most.
Those people are masturbating in the shower. They should find a less
energy consuming place to do it.

Even 5 minutes is twice as long as the typical asian shower.

Jimmie