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#1
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threaded wire connectors
Hi,
I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. I can actually make a mean connection with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. But when it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? Are there special connectors that can take stranded wire? For example, I like the spring connections on speakers, but perhaps that's not permanent enough for 120v since springs fatigue... Many thanks for your thoughts in advance, Aaron |
#2
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threaded wire connectors
Aaron Fude wrote:
.... I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. What's "threaded" wire??? You mean stranded, I guess? with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. What's to commend? Put the wires together, put on the wire nut and twist... it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. _NO_ junction box should be covered w/ drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? ... No real trick other than there's no such thing as threaded wire... Just make the stripped length of the stranded wire about 1/3rd longer than the solid. I've not looked; I'm sure there's a blurb on it at the Ideal or other manufacturers' sites. -- |
#3
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threaded wire connectors
On Wed 22 Jul 2009 10:43:46p, dpb told us...
Aaron Fude wrote: ... I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. What's "threaded" wire??? You mean stranded, I guess? with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. What's to commend? Put the wires together, put on the wire nut and twist... it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. _NO_ junction box should be covered w/ drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? ... No real trick other than there's no such thing as threaded wire... Just make the stripped length of the stranded wire about 1/3rd longer than the solid. I've not looked; I'm sure there's a blurb on it at the Ideal or other manufacturers' sites. If you want a little more insurance, you can use solder to tin the twisted stranded wire to basically make it solid. Then combine it with the actual solid wire and you stand a better chance of achieving a better mechanical connection within the wirenut. -- Wayne Boatwright ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Never work before breakfast; if you have to work before breakfast, eat your breakfast first. Josh Billings |
#4
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threaded wire connectors
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi, I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. I can actually make a mean connection with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. But when it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? Are there special connectors that can take stranded wire? For example, I like the spring connections on speakers, but perhaps that's not permanent enough for 120v since springs fatigue... Many thanks for your thoughts in advance, Aaron For many years I've used the Buchanan Four-Way Crimp Tool, connectors and insulating caps. The tool crimps the connector on four sides then a plastic insulating cap is snapped over the exposed metal. These connectors are very reliable and don't fall off if installed properly. Here's the best picture I could find of the tool, connectors and caps: http://www.twacomm.com/catalog/model_C-24.htm TDD |
#5
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threaded wire connectors
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi, I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. I can actually make a mean connection with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. But when it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? Are there special connectors that can take stranded wire? For example, I like the spring connections on speakers, but perhaps that's not permanent enough for 120v since springs fatigue... Many thanks for your thoughts in advance, Aaron Hi, Do you mean stranded wire? I never experienced problem using proper size wire nuts over the years as long as I remember. I think hiding junction box with drywall is a big no, no. Think what is the reason you installed junction box? Speakers? I use banana plugs. |
#6
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threaded wire connectors
I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut
connections with threaded wire. Use these with the built in set screw http://www.idealindustries.ca/produc..._connector.php |
#7
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threaded wire connectors
Rudy wrote:
I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. Use these with the built in set screw http://www.idealindustries.ca/produc..._connector.php Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 |
#8
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threaded wire connectors
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... Rudy wrote: I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. Use these with the built in set screw http://www.idealindustries.ca/produc..._connector.php Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 You are quite correct. All recessed fixture junction boxes do get covered with sheetrock... and it's perfectly legal, as they are considered "accessible" |
#9
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threaded wire connectors
In article , Aaron Fude wrote:
Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. |
#10
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threaded wire connectors
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. |
#11
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. It is not a "feel good" clause, it is to ensure accessability to all connections so that problems can be located, not just for fires, but for maintenance and troubleshooting. They box may never be opened, but if it was hidden how would you even know where it was is it needed to be worked on. |
#12
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threaded wire connectors
"EXT" wrote in message anews.com... JC wrote: "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. It is not a "feel good" clause, it is to ensure accessability to all connections so that problems can be located, not just for fires, but for maintenance and troubleshooting. They box may never be opened, but if it was hidden how would you even know where it was is it needed to be worked on. Oh, I'd probably look at a blueprint. Failing that, I'd probably use a multi-tester and track to where a 120 suddenly shows a 240. Lots of ways. Not to be obstinate but there is no really good reason to preclude covering a box with sheetrock other than just convenience. And, that's okay. But it is just a "feel good" measure. |
#13
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threaded wire connectors
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... Hi, I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. I can actually make a mean connection with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. But when it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? Are there special connectors that can take stranded wire? For example, I like the spring connections on speakers, but perhaps that's not permanent enough for 120v since springs fatigue... Many thanks for your thoughts in advance, Aaron When I do a stranded to solid connections I always strip the stranded wire a little longer than the solid wire. Then I even up the insulation so the bare stranded sticks out above the bare solid and use a wirenut (I learned this from one of the guys on this group a couple years ago when I was just starting out and it has served me well). Twist the heck out of the wirenut and make sure that it is tight. Every connection I make I tug the individual wire to make sure that it doesn't pull from the wirenut. If I think it has the potential to vibrate loose I wrap a few layers of tape around the wirenut and the insulation of the 2 wires. I haven't had a problem. Shane |
#14
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. The code requires junction boxes for splices to prevent fires from occurring due to faulty connections, and requires them to be accessible, so electricians can make repairs. OTOH, people who put out fires, tend to use axes, not screwdrivers to do their job |
#15
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threaded wire connectors
"RBM" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. The code requires junction boxes for splices to prevent fires from occurring due to faulty connections, and requires them to be accessible, so electricians can make repairs. OTOH, people who put out fires, tend to use axes, not screwdrivers to do their job Bingo! |
#16
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message ... "RBM" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. The code requires junction boxes for splices to prevent fires from occurring due to faulty connections, and requires them to be accessible, so electricians can make repairs. OTOH, people who put out fires, tend to use axes, not screwdrivers to do their job Bingo! PS: And just to show you how brilliant that desk jockey that included that in the code is, short two 12 guage wires together in one of those blue plastic boxes and see how long it takes to obliterate it. |
#17
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threaded wire connectors
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi, I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. I can actually make a mean connection with solid wires that professional electricians commend me on. But when it comes to making a connection b/w the solid wires and one threaded wire (as in a recessed light) I feel that the threaded wire loosens the connection. It makes me especially nervous realizing that the junction box is getting covered by drywall. What's the trick in making a solid connection with a threaded wire? A box of wire nuts will say, "No need to pretwist." If you make good connections with solid wire, I guess you know it's important not to twist the wires clockwise first, as many do. The trouble with stranded wire is that it tends to twist clockwise as you screw on the wire nut. You may end up with slack under the nut, and the nut may not engage all the conductors. One solution is to make the end of the stranded wire solid by tinning it. Instead, I twist the conductors together counterclockwise before applying the nut. Screwing on the nut untwists them. As they untwist, the threads of the nut should catch them all. I test my wire-nut connections by tugging each conductor. Sometimes I have to try again. With stranded wire, I've found wire-nut connections more reliable than crimped connections. I can make a good wire-nut connection where I can't reach with both hands. I get by with three sizes of wire nuts. B-caps are especially nice. They have room for the spring to expand, which can mean more pressure and friction to hold large solid conductors. Friction doesn't seem to be such a concern with stranded conductors. |
#18
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
"JC" wrote in message ... "RBM" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message ... I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. The code requires junction boxes for splices to prevent fires from occurring due to faulty connections, and requires them to be accessible, so electricians can make repairs. OTOH, people who put out fires, tend to use axes, not screwdrivers to do their job Bingo! PS: And just to show you how brilliant that desk jockey that included that in the code is, short two 12 guage wires together in one of those blue plastic boxes and see how long it takes to obliterate it. I'm sure the desk jockey included requirements for circuit breakers that would trip before the box got that hot. If somebody piled confetti on a faulty connection carrying 20 amps, it could reach kindling temperature. The box is intended to let that heat dissipate. |
#19
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threaded wire connectors
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
Rudy wrote: I've recently realized that I don't feel comfortable making wire nut connections with threaded wire. Use these with the built in set screw http://www.idealindustries.ca/produc..._connector.php Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Mostly you're having problems with syntax: that junction box for that light connection will not be "covered" in the code sense as long as removing the fixture part exposes the junction box for the fixture. It's still "accessible". But the way you phrased it, without looking at your link, it sounds like a junction box with wires into it wires out of it (nothing else, no fixture) is going to be behind drywall completely. There would be no way to even know where that junction box is located once the drywall is put up. THAT is not allowed by codes! As long as you can remove a wall plate cover, a light fixture, etc, and it's removable by design, then you're all set. You can ACCESS that junction box by taking the light cover off. Now, if there is a junction box with wires going TO a light fixture junction box, and the first junction box is not accessible by taking the light's cover off, THAT would not be allowed, either. Interestingly enough, I just discovered yesterday that I have two junction boxes illegally installed in the celing - when the attic flooring was put down, it covered two junction boxes. So you can't get at them from the attic OR the bathroom; that's NOT to code; I'll be fixing those when I redo the wiring so they're exposed from the attic side; no big deal as the flooring picks up easily after removing a few screws. HTH, Twayne` |
#20
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. Not at all; you should read codes and avoid helping anyone with house inspections. |
#21
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message
news "EXT" wrote in message anews.com... JC wrote: "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. It is not a "feel good" clause, it is to ensure accessability to all connections so that problems can be located, not just for fires, but for maintenance and troubleshooting. They box may never be opened, but if it was hidden how would you even know where it was is it needed to be worked on. Oh, I'd probably look at a blueprint. Failing that, I'd probably use a multi-tester and track to where a 120 suddenly shows a 240. Lots of ways. Not to be obstinate but there is no really good reason to preclude covering a box with sheetrock other than just convenience. And, that's okay. But it is just a "feel good" measure. The vast majority of the time there ARE no blueprints on existing homes. You're lucky to even find a written description of wiring sometimes. A multi-tester will not tell you where a buried, inaccessible junction box is located. In fact, there is almost no way short of expensive equipment to even locate it to within a few inches of its actual location. The symptom would not be 240Vac; in a residential NA setting it would be a loss of 120Vac 99.9% of the time. If it goes to 240, there is much more wrong than an inaccessible junction box, which itself gives no indication that it even exists, let alone where it is. It's not covering a junction box with sheetrock that's a problem: It's the inaccessibility of the junction box regardless of coverings that is the problem. IF for instance the box were accessible from the other side of the wall, ceiling, etc., then that's fine. A "hot" junction box is not going to identify itself and in the hands of a poor tech may result in an inability to even realize one exists; while the house burns down that night. But if it's exposed it's easily traced and found to be hot, by any competent tech with a current license. Read the code: It gives the reasons behind it. You're welcome to your opinions but that doesn't mean others need to follow you or should depend on you. Since you participate on this group I have to assume you're involved with electrical work and thus are not credible or reliable. Your attitude makes your comments questionable. |
#22
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message
"RBM" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. The code requires junction boxes for splices to prevent fires from occurring due to faulty connections, and requires them to be accessible, so electricians can make repairs. OTOH, people who put out fires, tend to use axes, not screwdrivers to do their job Bingo! Bingo what? That doesn't make your faulty opinions any more valid. |
#23
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message
"JC" wrote in message ... "RBM" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. The code requires junction boxes for splices to prevent fires from occurring due to faulty connections, and requires them to be accessible, so electricians can make repairs. OTOH, people who put out fires, tend to use axes, not screwdrivers to do their job Bingo! PS: And just to show you how brilliant that desk jockey that included that in the code is, short two 12 guage wires together in one of those blue plastic boxes and see how long it takes to obliterate it. Obliterate what? The blue plastic boxes are irrelevant to anything brought up in this thread. You're trying to change the subject. Do the same with an ungrounded metal box; exactly the same results. |
#24
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threaded wire connectors
"Twayne" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. Not at all; you should read codes and avoid helping anyone with house inspections. I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. |
#25
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message ... "Twayne" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. Not at all; you should read codes and avoid helping anyone with house inspections. I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! I mean, come on fella, can you give me a good reason why a National Electrical Code would have a disclaimer of liability for those that follow the friggin code? Geez. They sit around a big room and all of a sudden someone says something like this, "hey, you know what? My nephew, who once worked for an electricians helper, said that it sure was inconvenient trying to track down those dang junction boxes when they are hidden inside walls. Why don't you guys make that illegal?". And as they've never seen an electric wire in their lives say "sure, what the hell". I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! |
#26
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message
"JC" wrote in message ... "Twayne" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. Not at all; you should read codes and avoid helping anyone with house inspections. I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! I mean, come on fella, can you give me a good reason why a National Electrical Code would have a disclaimer of liability for those that follow the friggin code? Geez. They sit around a big room and all of a sudden someone says something like this, "hey, you know what? My nephew, who once worked for an electricians helper, said that it sure was inconvenient trying to track down those dang junction boxes when they are hidden inside walls. Why don't you guys make that illegal?". And as they've never seen an electric wire in their lives say "sure, what the hell". I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! You've just done a great job of proving your lack of logic, forethought and perception. Perhaps you need to stop doing anything for anyone but yourself. |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
"Twayne" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message "JC" wrote in message ... "Twayne" wrote in message ... "JC" wrote in message "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , Aaron Fude wrote: Thank you for all the responses and suggestions. Yes, I meant stranded wire. But to everyone who no-no'd covering the junction box with drywall, what do you suggest I do about this junction box: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...px?sku=2319080 Don't worry about it. The Code requires that all junction boxes be "accessible". In this case, the junction box is "accessible" by removing the fixture can from its frame. I suspect this restriction is so the connections are easy to locate if there is a fire. But, as a volunteer fireman, I can assure you that during the fighting of a fire we are not going to be looking for a junction box as one of the first things we do is shut the main power. I think this is just another "feelgood" clause inserted by some desk jockey. Not at all; you should read codes and avoid helping anyone with house inspections. I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! I mean, come on fella, can you give me a good reason why a National Electrical Code would have a disclaimer of liability for those that follow the friggin code? Geez. They sit around a big room and all of a sudden someone says something like this, "hey, you know what? My nephew, who once worked for an electricians helper, said that it sure was inconvenient trying to track down those dang junction boxes when they are hidden inside walls. Why don't you guys make that illegal?". And as they've never seen an electric wire in their lives say "sure, what the hell". I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! You've just done a great job of proving your lack of logic, forethought and perception. Perhaps you need to stop doing anything for anyone but yourself. Perhaps you should try to find somewhere that I claimed to do anything for anyone but myself before you get your whole leg in your mouth. |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! I suppose with a powerful magnet I could find a metal junction box if it were close to the surface, but how would I know it was the right box? How would I locate a hidden junction box with just a multitester? How much damage would I do if I cut my way to it? How could I be sure the hidden box I found wasn't live? |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message ... JC wrote: I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! I suppose with a powerful magnet I could find a metal junction box if it were close to the surface, but how would I know it was the right box? How would I locate a hidden junction box with just a multitester? How much damage would I do if I cut my way to it? How could I be sure the hidden box I found wasn't live? Don't how *you* would. Perhaps you would call an electrician. |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
In article , "JC" wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message ... JC wrote: I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! I suppose with a powerful magnet I could find a metal junction box if it were close to the surface, but how would I know it was the right box? How would I locate a hidden junction box with just a multitester? How much damage would I do if I cut my way to it? How could I be sure the hidden box I found wasn't live? Don't how *you* would. Perhaps you would call an electrician. Or perhaps you're just making stuff up. Do tell -- how do *you* locate a hidden plastic junction box with just a multitester? This oughta be amusing... |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , "JC" wrote: "E Z Peaces" wrote in message ... JC wrote: I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! I suppose with a powerful magnet I could find a metal junction box if it were close to the surface, but how would I know it was the right box? How would I locate a hidden junction box with just a multitester? How much damage would I do if I cut my way to it? How could I be sure the hidden box I found wasn't live? Don't how *you* would. Perhaps you would call an electrician. Or perhaps you're just making stuff up. Do tell -- how do *you* locate a hidden plastic junction box with just a multitester? This oughta be amusing... I'm not interested in amusing you. Try it and maybe you can figure it out. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
"JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , "JC" wrote: "E Z Peaces" wrote in message ... JC wrote: I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! I suppose with a powerful magnet I could find a metal junction box if it were close to the surface, but how would I know it was the right box? How would I locate a hidden junction box with just a multitester? How much damage would I do if I cut my way to it? How could I be sure the hidden box I found wasn't live? Don't how *you* would. Perhaps you would call an electrician. Or perhaps you're just making stuff up. Do tell -- how do *you* locate a hidden plastic junction box with just a multitester? This oughta be amusing... I'm not interested in amusing you. Try it and maybe you can figure it out. Here, let me just set your minds at ease so you won't keep wasting your time trying to claim that plastic junction boxes cannot be found with a multi tester. I suppose there are hundreds of different kinds of multi testers and perhaps that's why you just don't get it. The SureTest® Circuit Tracers are powerful, versatile, easy-to-use troubleshooting test tools for finding breakers and hidden wire problems in residential/commercial/industrial environments. These tracers work on energized and de-energized circuits. They identify circuit breakers, find opens and shorts, and trace wires behind walls and underground. Each kit contains the same transmitter (TR-958) and test lead kit (TL-958). The 958 also has the high-end Receiver (RC-958), adds an Inductive Clamp (IC-958) with Battery Pack (BP-958), and a larger Hard Case (C-958). Features: a.. Numeric value and audible signal provide quick and easy-to-understand tracing feedback b.. Receiver display rotates automatically for easy viewing c.. Identifies breakers and fuses d.. Can be used on circuits de-energized/energized 0-600V AC/DC e.. Kit includes: a.. Transmitter b.. Receiver c.. Tracer Test Lead Set d.. Inductive Clamp e.. Battery Pack f.. Hard Carrying Case g.. Batteries h.. Instructional DVD Spec Summary: Transmitter Operating Frequency: 32 kilohertz, fixed-amplitude, time-modulated signal Current Output of Signal: 200mA p-pmax into 50 ohm Voltage Output of Signal: 30V nominal (2 watts) Operating Voltage: 0 – 600V AC/DC Battery Power: 1.5V x (4) AA batteries (NEDA 15A, IEC LR6) Battery life: 40 hours open circuit testing / 25 hours short circuit tracing Indicators: On/Off, Line energized, Low battery Receiver Sensing: Magnetic Maximum range: 15 feet underground Signal response: Numeric display and Audible beep Battery Power: 1.5V x (3) AA batteries (NEDA 15A, IEC LR6) Battery life: 20 hours |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
Here, let me just set your minds at ease so you won't keep wasting your time trying to claim that plastic junction boxes cannot be found with a multi tester. I suppose there are hundreds of different kinds of multi testers and perhaps that's why you just don't get it. The SureTest® Circuit Tracers are powerful, versatile, easy-to-use troubleshooting test tools for finding breakers and hidden wire problems in residential/commercial/industrial environments... Some people waste their time trying to claim you can't fly to Hawaii on a bicycle. I suppose there are hundreds of different kinds of bicycles and perhaps that's why you just don't get it. |
#34
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! The code panels are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. What would any of them know about safe wiring? We need the code written by the real experts, like JC. -- bud-- |
#35
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
"bud--" wrote in message .. . JC wrote: I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! The code panels are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. What would any of them know about safe wiring? We need the code written by the real experts, like JC. -- bud-- Obviously, YOU haven't read that inside front cover. You guys sure are defensive. What's the matter? All I said was that I "suspected" that this item in the code was written by some desk jockey. That's because I've read the inside front cover. I did not say for any of you to ignore this part of the code. I did not say any of you had to take my statement as fact. I simply said what *I* suspected. And you guys all got your tailfeathers ruffled as if you had been indicted or something. Geez, I thought you might be growups on here. But not a damn one of you was able to answer my question when I asked all of you defensive sorts to show me where that part of the code was NOT written by some desk jockey. So, y'all huff and puff and blow off your steam and I'll stick with my original suspicion. You guys would **** your pants if you knew some of the people that write the various fire codes. Guess what? 90% of them are NOT fire prevention techs in any sense of the term. |
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
In article , "JC" wrote:
"JC" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , "JC" wrote: "E Z Peaces" wrote in message ... JC wrote: I can find a hidden junction box within minutes. With a magnet if it's metal and with a multi tester (a bit more difficult) if it's plastic. How hard do you think it is to trace from one outlet to the next, along a wall? It's not foolproof but it's very doable. And once again, if it's for safety, it's just a joke because I'll guarantee you, no fireman is going to wonder around looking for junction boxes. So we come right back to what I said originally, it's a feelgood reg for convenience ONLY! I suppose with a powerful magnet I could find a metal junction box if it were close to the surface, but how would I know it was the right box? How would I locate a hidden junction box with just a multitester? How much damage would I do if I cut my way to it? How could I be sure the hidden box I found wasn't live? Don't how *you* would. Perhaps you would call an electrician. Or perhaps you're just making stuff up. Do tell -- how do *you* locate a hidden plastic junction box with just a multitester? This oughta be amusing... I'm not interested in amusing you. Try it and maybe you can figure it out. Here, let me just set your minds at ease so you won't keep wasting your time trying to claim that plastic junction boxes cannot be found with a multi tester. I suppose there are hundreds of different kinds of multi testers and perhaps that's why you just don't get it. The SureTest® Circuit Tracers are powerful, versatile, easy-to-use troubleshooting test tools for finding breakers and hidden wire problems in residential/commercial/industrial environments. These tracers work on energized and de-energized circuits. They identify circuit breakers, find opens and shorts, and trace wires behind walls and underground. Each kit contains the same transmitter (TR-958) and test lead kit (TL-958). The 958 also has the high-end Receiver (RC-958), adds an Inductive Clamp (IC-958) with Battery Pack (BP-958), and a larger Hard Case (C-958). That's *not* a multitester. |
#37
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:20:25 -0500, "JC" wrote:
[snip] Or perhaps you're just making stuff up. Do tell -- how do *you* locate a hidden plastic junction box with just a multitester? This oughta be amusing... I'm not interested in amusing you. Try it and maybe you can figure it out. This sounds like the "evidence" for [supernatural being]. People keep saying there's plenty of evidence, than fail to produce any. |
#38
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message .. . JC wrote: I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! The code panels are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. What would any of them know about safe wiring? We need the code written by the real experts, like JC. Obviously, YOU haven't read that inside front cover. Obviously I have. All I said was that I "suspected" that this item in the code was written by some desk jockey. That's because I've read the inside front cover. If you had reasonable intelligence and read the make-up of the code panels at the front of the NEC you would find they are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. That is, people who work daily with wiring and equipment and are familiar with electrical safety. Cite a code panel that is not primarily electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, manufacturers, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. But not a damn one of you was able to answer my question when I asked all of you defensive sorts to show me where that part of the code was NOT written by some desk jockey. I answered your question. The code is written by electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products - people familiar with electrical safety. Time to fulfill your pledge: "Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections." -- bud-- |
#39
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
"bud--" wrote in message .. . JC wrote: "bud--" wrote in message .. . JC wrote: I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! The code panels are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. What would any of them know about safe wiring? We need the code written by the real experts, like JC. Obviously, YOU haven't read that inside front cover. Obviously I have. All I said was that I "suspected" that this item in the code was written by some desk jockey. That's because I've read the inside front cover. If you had reasonable intelligence and read the make-up of the code panels at the front of the NEC you would find they are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. That is, people who work daily with wiring and equipment and are familiar with electrical safety. Cite a code panel that is not primarily electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, manufacturers, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. But not a damn one of you was able to answer my question when I asked all of you defensive sorts to show me where that part of the code was NOT written by some desk jockey. I answered your question. The code is written by electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products - people familiar with electrical safety. Time to fulfill your pledge: "Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections." -- bud-- Well, I've already fulfilled that one as I've never, nor intend to ever waste my time on inspecting someone's house. Now, why don't we play like we're a bunch of 5 year old kids and see how long we can keep this ****ing match tit for tat bull**** going? Want to? |
#40
Posted to alt.home.repair
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threaded wire connectors
JC wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message .. . JC wrote: "bud--" wrote in message .. . JC wrote: I have the latest code book. 2008 I believe. Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections. Correction, I have the NEC 2005 (NFPA 70). I might have a 2008 handbook or something. But, just open up the front cover and read it for yourself. Desk jockeys, mostly desk jockey's with nothing more than OPINIONS! The code panels are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. What would any of them know about safe wiring? We need the code written by the real experts, like JC. Obviously, YOU haven't read that inside front cover. Obviously I have. All I said was that I "suspected" that this item in the code was written by some desk jockey. That's because I've read the inside front cover. If you had reasonable intelligence and read the make-up of the code panels at the front of the NEC you would find they are electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. That is, people who work daily with wiring and equipment and are familiar with electrical safety. Cite a code panel that is not primarily electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, manufacturers, electrical engineers who design buildings and products. But not a damn one of you was able to answer my question when I asked all of you defensive sorts to show me where that part of the code was NOT written by some desk jockey. I answered your question. The code is written by electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, electrical engineers who design buildings and products - people familiar with electrical safety. Time to fulfill your pledge: "Could you please point out the page that tells me that the point in question was NOT inserted by some desk jockey? If you can, I promise, I'll never help anyone with house inspections." -- bud-- Well, I've already fulfilled that one as I've never, nor intend to ever waste my time on inspecting someone's house. What a surprise - an empty promise. Now, why don't we play like we're a bunch of 5 year old kids and see how long we can keep this ****ing match tit for tat bull**** going? Want to? What a surprise - no citation of 'desk jockeys' on code panels: "Cite a code panel that is not primarily electricians, contractors, inspectors, UL, manufacturers, electrical engineers who design buildings and products." Apparently you are conceding you are full of crap, as everyone has concluded. -- bud-- |
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