Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

"Observer" wrote in message
...
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

"Observer" wrote in message
...
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.

A picture here would be very helpful. Typically main breakers are screwed or
clamped down, but it sounds like this may not exactly be a factory
installation. Considering that this is new, I would expect and want it to be
as the manufacturer intended.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

"Observer" wrote in message
...
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

Can you tell, we're in the same business?

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

Can you tell, we're in the same business?


*LOL

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:28:31 -0400, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


"Observer" wrote in message
.. .
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

Any suggestions where to post the photo? I'll try to do a photo or 2
later today.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:28:31 -0400, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


"Observer" wrote in message
.. .
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/?saved=1

In pic 008, you can see a notch on the top and bottom of the main
circuit breaker and it looks like the screw is in line with them and
tho I could not see it, I get the feeling now that the same notch is
in the middle where the screw is located. As you can see it's a small
phillips screw with a small washer.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

I have some of the same concerns but I'm not sure I can make the
electrician change it since it appears to be working fine for the last
24 hours. I guess I will have to play this one out over the years and
learn from experience but I'm with you. I'm sure not crazy about it.

Odd tho, I did notice only the main circuit breaker had the notches
vs. the others so perhaps the screw is okay but I've seen a number of
panels before and never saw a screw in them like this. I hate to
trust when I have suspicions but I'm not about to take it apart.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Observer wrote:
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.

Does look weird. I'd visit the website of the breaker-box manufacturer or
call their customer service department to see what they recommend. I assure
you they don't want to be named in a lawsuit should your house burn down and
everybody, including your fish, die.

Hint: If you hear a gasp, you'll know.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Observer wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:


On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:


On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:


I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.


I have some of the same concerns but I'm not sure I can make the
electrician change it since it appears to be working fine for the last
24 hours. I guess I will have to play this one out over the years and
learn from experience but I'm with you. I'm sure not crazy about it.


So, call up your local electrical inspector, tell him your concerns and
ask him if he'd be kind enough to look at those photos via the web, and
if he thinks there's something funky then to come out and take a look
see himself.

Howzatt?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


Odd tho, I did notice only the main circuit breaker had the notches
vs. the others so perhaps the screw is okay but I've seen a number of
panels before and never saw a screw in them like this. I hate to
trust when I have suspicions but I'm not about to take it apart.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:30:43 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

"Observer" wrote in message
. ..
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it. Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/?saved=1

In pic 008, you can see a notch on the top and bottom of the main
circuit breaker and it looks like the screw is in line with them and
tho I could not see it, I get the feeling now that the same notch is
in the middle where the screw is located. As you can see it's a small
phillips screw with a small washer.


*It's fine and thanks for the photos. If you want definite confirmation
that the main breaker installation is correct you can contact the
manufacturer with the model # of your circuit breaker panel.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

"Observer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:30:43 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

It's probably a convertible panel which can be used as a main breaker
panel with the proper main breaker and hold down screw. They probably just
neglected to install the screw. This can be verified if you give us the make
and model of the panel

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:51:45 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Observer" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:30:43 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

It's probably a convertible panel which can be used as a main breaker
panel with the proper main breaker and hold down screw. They probably just
neglected to install the screw. This can be verified if you give us the make
and model of the panel


I will but it will be tomorrow. I don't recall seeing the name on the
breakers but I'll look more closely at both the panel and breakers.
thanks again.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Wow, that's bizarre. Looks more like Torx than phillips.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Observer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:28:31 -0400, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


"Observer" wrote in message
.. .
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the
outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday
and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main
breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the
electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not
there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I
found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in
the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by
side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the
space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in
it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a
screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it.
Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded
so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the
breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible
face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit
breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so
far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/?saved=1

In pic 008, you can see a notch on the top and bottom of the
main
circuit breaker and it looks like the screw is in line with
them and
tho I could not see it, I get the feeling now that the same
notch is
in the middle where the screw is located. As you can see
it's a small
phillips screw with a small washer.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Wow, that's bizarre. Looks more like Torx than phillips.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Observer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:28:31 -0400, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


"Observer" wrote in message
.. .
I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the
outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday
and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main
breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the
electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not
there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I
found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in
the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by
side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the
space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in
it's present
position. All looks good but I've never seen a
screw/washer screwed
into the middle of a main circuit breaker to hold it.
Electrician who
did original job told me that the metal box is grounded
so I guess the
screw is grounded but will the plastic housing of the
breaker crack
with a washer pressed against its outer face (visible
face) in time?
I've never seen a screw and washer in or around a circuit
breaker so
this makes me suspicious but all appears to work well so
far today.


How about posting a photo? It probably is fine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/?saved=1

In pic 008, you can see a notch on the top and bottom of the
main
circuit breaker and it looks like the screw is in line with
them and
tho I could not see it, I get the feeling now that the same
notch is
in the middle where the screw is located. As you can see
it's a small
phillips screw with a small washer.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with
one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between
the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's
present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular
panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

It's probably a convertible panel which can be used as a main breaker
panel with the proper main breaker and hold down screw. They probably just
neglected to install the screw. This can be verified if you give us the
make
and model of the panel


I will but it will be tomorrow. I don't recall seeing the name on the
breakers but I'll look more closely at both the panel and breakers.
thanks again.


*It looks like a Cutler-Hammer "BR" panel.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

I second the motion.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"jeff_wisnia" wrote in
message
eonecommunications...

So, call up your local electrical inspector, tell him your
concerns and
ask him if he'd be kind enough to look at those photos via
the web, and
if he thinks there's something funky then to come out and
take a look
see himself.

Howzatt?

Jeff

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

I second the motion.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"jeff_wisnia" wrote in
message
eonecommunications...

So, call up your local electrical inspector, tell him your
concerns and
ask him if he'd be kind enough to look at those photos via
the web, and
if he thinks there's something funky then to come out and
take a look
see himself.

Howzatt?

Jeff

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Look around the edges, and inside the door.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Observer" wrote in message
...

I will but it will be tomorrow. I don't recall seeing the
name on the
breakers but I'll look more closely at both the panel and
breakers.
thanks again.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Look around the edges, and inside the door.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Observer" wrote in message
...

I will but it will be tomorrow. I don't recall seeing the
name on the
breakers but I'll look more closely at both the panel and
breakers.
thanks again.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:09:58 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Look around the edges, and inside the door.


Sure will. Thanks. Maybe I can take more pictures??

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

Sure, the first set were excellent. Someday I've got to get
one of those free hosting accounts. Start a blog like
everyone else.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Observer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:09:58 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Look around the edges, and inside the door.


Sure will. Thanks. Maybe I can take more pictures??

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Sure, the first set were excellent. Someday I've got to get
one of those free hosting accounts. Start a blog like
everyone else.

Yeah, and maybe post your pictures upside down. Since you're a
free-thinking radical scofflaw and all.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:51:45 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Observer" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:30:43 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:47:17 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 7/20/2009 5:11 PM spake thus:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

It's probably a convertible panel which can be used as a main breaker
panel with the proper main breaker and hold down screw. They probably just
neglected to install the screw. This can be verified if you give us the make
and model of the panel



Here are some more pics I took this morning beginning with the name
7.22.09 for this panel. Sorry if the pics aren't the greatest for the
paper on the inside of the door. If you look at the circuit breakers
with 150% magnification tho, I think it reads nicely.

Just curious, would it have been a big deal if they didn't install
this screw per code? I mean would it have made the panel not to code
just because of a neglected screw?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/


Last, thanks to all for your replies.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:47:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Observer wrote:

Just curious, would it have been a big deal if they didn't install
this screw per code? I mean would it have made the panel not to code
just because of a neglected screw?


Yes

408.36(D) Back-Fed Devices. Plug-in-type overcurrent protection
devices or plug-in type main lug assemblies that are backfed and used
to terminate field-installed ungrounded supply conductors shall be
secured in place by an additional fastener that requires other than a
pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel.


When I look back, your past posts all said the same thing and thank
you for the info. I guess this panel now is all up to code and all is
working fine as of this morning. Thank you a lot.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with
one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between
the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's
present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular
panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

It's probably a convertible panel which can be used as a main breaker
panel with the proper main breaker and hold down screw. They probably just
neglected to install the screw. This can be verified if you give us the
make
and model of the panel



Here are some more pics I took this morning beginning with the name
7.22.09 for this panel. Sorry if the pics aren't the greatest for the
paper on the inside of the door. If you look at the circuit breakers
with 150% magnification tho, I think it reads nicely.

Just curious, would it have been a big deal if they didn't install
this screw per code? I mean would it have made the panel not to code
just because of a neglected screw?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/


Last, thanks to all for your replies.


*In the left column in the seventh box down below the "Eaton -
Cutler-Hammer" name it gives the screw part number and says that it is
required. Time to move on. All is well here.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Sure, the first set were excellent. Someday I've got to get
one of those free hosting accounts. Start a blog like
everyone else.

Yeah, and maybe post your pictures upside down. Since you're a
free-thinking radical scofflaw and all.


*I think that some people may benefit from his examples of what not to do.

Circuit breakers and breaker box
 

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:05:35 -0400, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


I had a electrician install a new breaker box on the outside of my
house where the old one was. The install was done Friday and
yesterday, Sunday (house is vacant) I found the main breaker tripped
and loose (I think off it's track). I called the electrician back
Monday and he was very prompt to fix it but I was not there when he
did. When I came to inspect it later the same day, I found that the
main circuit breaker was firmly in place and on but in the middle of
the breaker (main breaker looks like 2 breakers side by side with
one
lever) was a screw and washer tightened to it in the space between
the
two breaker as if it was assisting to keep the breaker in it's
present
position.

That is the way some brands work (Cutler Hammer for one).
The screw is the legal hold down

Sorry, but this
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/3676626...839537/sizes/o) just
looks wrong and jury-rigged to me, and I would also be concerned about
the screw and washer cracking the face of the breaker.

If the breakers aren't securely attached to the bus without adding
hardware, isn't there something wrong with either this particular
panel
or with the design of the damn thing?

I wouldn't want this sucker outside my house.

That is the way those breakers are supposed to work and the hold down
is required by code for one that is back fed like that

I agree, it looks perfectly legitimate to me



You guys must know what you are talking about. I debated about
calling the electrician's company but did so a little while ago. I
asked about the screw and he said it was required by code to prevent
taking out the main breaker without taking out the screw first. Maybe
that explains the notches in the sides of the breaker tho it doesn't
explain why it wasn't there in the first place. Oh well I'll assume
the three of you are correct and just let it go. Thanks for the reply
to both of you.

It's probably a convertible panel which can be used as a main breaker
panel with the proper main breaker and hold down screw. They probably just
neglected to install the screw. This can be verified if you give us the
make
and model of the panel



Here are some more pics I took this morning beginning with the name
7.22.09 for this panel. Sorry if the pics aren't the greatest for the
paper on the inside of the door. If you look at the circuit breakers
with 150% magnification tho, I think it reads nicely.

Just curious, would it have been a big deal if they didn't install
this screw per code? I mean would it have made the panel not to code
just because of a neglected screw?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36766263@N04/


Last, thanks to all for your replies.


*In the left column in the seventh box down below the "Eaton -
Cutler-Hammer" name it gives the screw part number and says that it is
required. Time to move on. All is well here.


Gosh, you read better than me and I took the picture. Doesn't say
much for me. Thanks again grin.