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Default How I think the economy will go and why

Douglas Johnson wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote:

Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:


Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply
with the new laws.

Do you have a citation for this?
Thanks,
Doug


We dug it out once a couple of weeks ago (it's tough to find in a
1,400 page bill)


Actually, it's pretty easy. Right in the table of contents:

"SEC. 304. GREATER ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN BUILDING CODES."

It's in the House version of the Cap-and-Trade bill, though not as
onerous as it sounds. It originally applied to sales of ALL homes
but was modified to apply only to NEW construction. It includes the
gamut of things down to water heater insulation.


The section does not address water heater insulation or any other
specific practice at all. It requires the establishment of national
energy building codes that meet certain energy reduction targets by
certain dates. It doesn't say how.

I looked at the text of both the first-introduced bill and the one
passed and sent to the Senate. Section 304 does not seem to differ
significantly between the two.

Still, it's the beginning of a federal standard of energy efficiency
and it's only a small additional step to impose it on the sale of
existing homes.


It would be a HUGE step. There is a reason building codes apply to
new construction and old houses are grand fathered in. It is not
economically feasible to upgrade even a reasonably new (say 10 years
old) to current code. My 60 year old barn would need new windows,
roof structure, foundations, electrical, plumbing, insulation in the
walls... The foundations alone would make it cheaper to tear down
and rebuild.


I confused; what does expense have to do with anything? If we can spend
money to run the country on sunbeams we can mandate pocket money to reduce
our energy demand to that which can be supplied by sunbeams.

After all, it's for the children, for the whales, for a greener, more
sustainable planet.


Here's the text:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...yoUT0:e400671:

You'll note that we'll have to conform to the International Energy
Conservation Code

Get your copy he
http://www.iccsafe.org/e/prodshow.html?prodid=3800S06



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Default How I think the economy will go and why

Douglas Johnson wrote in
:

"HeyBub" wrote:

Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:


Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply
with the new laws.

Do you have a citation for this?
Thanks,
Doug


We dug it out once a couple of weeks ago (it's tough to find in a
1,400 page bill)


Actually, it's pretty easy. Right in the table of contents:

"SEC. 304. GREATER ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN BUILDING CODES."

It's in the House version of the Cap-and-Trade bill, though not as
onerous as it sounds. It originally applied to sales of ALL homes but
was modified to apply only to NEW construction. It includes the gamut
of things down to water heater insulation.


The section does not address water heater insulation or any other
specific practice at all. It requires the establishment of national
energy building codes that meet certain energy reduction targets by
certain dates. It doesn't say how.

I looked at the text of both the first-introduced bill and the one
passed and sent to the Senate. Section 304 does not seem to differ
significantly between the two.

Still, it's the beginning of a federal standard of energy efficiency
and it's only a small additional step to impose it on the sale of
existing homes.


It would be a HUGE step. There is a reason building codes apply to
new construction and old houses are grand fathered in.


when did reason ever stop Obama and the DemocRATS?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


It is not
economically feasible to upgrade even a reasonably new (say 10 years
old) to current code. My 60 year old barn would need new windows, roof
structure, foundations, electrical, plumbing, insulation in the
walls... The foundations alone would make it cheaper to tear down and
rebuild.

We would have to tear down most of the nation's housing stock. Now
that's a stimulus package!

-- Doug
-- Doug


Obama plans to tear down the entire US economy.
Cap and Trade.
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Default How I think the economy will go and why

On Jul 13, 7:25*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"phil scott" wrote in message

...





It is a fact that if a nation PRINTS trillions of dollars to solve its
financial problems, that hyper inflation and collapse will follow.


However.... our US govt is NOT *printing any money,...... it is
**issuing electronic credits***, that act as money, and may indeed
stimulate the economy....this is assisted by low interest rates so
people can afford to buy homes and build businesses etc... *little
actual money is being printed though.


all this is happening as deflation due to tough economic times takes
the hot air out of the housing and stock markets etc. * the collapsing
tax base will also force the bloat out of government... * * all if
tgus us a *good thing.


This deflation *will be painful and *could lead to total collapse....
unless enough trillions in added *credit are issued into the economy
through the banks to keep things afloat... floating on a massive sea
of *credit. * thats whats happening now...


its all just barely floating on a massive sea of credit... but it is
doing this as the housing and stock market bubbles deflate. * thats a
good and a necessary thing... so far we are deflating these bubbles,
and our bloated state governments without total collapse.


With luck that will be continued.


***** * again, this sea of funny money ***is not actually money***
(just credit), no extra currency is printed for most of it...


the US Dollar may very well *regain its value, when the FED raises
interest rates again after these bubbles hit bottom... * that will be
tricky and it remains to be seen how that will be pulled off,
especially given the 300 trillion dollars or so in hot air derivitives
(insurance policies used to guarantee bad loans).


it may be that as the large insurers, such as AIG go broke, file
bankrupcy and defualt that a good percentage of this derivitive mess
will simply evaporate *(like so many trillions in the worlds pension
funds have already evaporated.)


as the work force gets more *desperate, and half of the bloated govt
work force is laid off, and the rest got their bloated retirements cut
by 70% or so, and the social security recipients are unfortunately cut
back to starvation levels..... and we start manufacturing in the US
again...we will recover...... it will be a nasty next 15 to 20 years
(time span directly calculated from life expectancy tables)


all of that is necessary...and will happen on the current path if we
are lucky... depends on many things though, luck, oil prices, what we
do about nuclear energy, and what other nations do etc..


***


when that stabilizes, my guess in 10 or 20 years of tight times,
during which time the 80 million social security recipients will all
be deader than hell... restoriing the national economy... * *full
recovery will begin, that will take another 15 to 20 years... and we
have seen these time frames recently in China and Russia.


then.... interest rates will be raised again, restoring the value of
the US dollar in world markets. * Investing in the mean time may be
problematical. *Some high tech areas will pay off well. * The best
investments will be in ones own operation, skill sets and networks.


imo


***


Support for this argument is my observation that the FED is willing to
loan 'money' to the banks at 1% or less, and the banks are willing to
loan at 4%... that tells you that those in charge have a solution for
hyper inflation.. and I believe my memo here describes that
solution...


if relatively few *actual dollar bills are printed, paying the money
back will be difficult and the 4% intrest will provide the banks with
a real profit.


why:


(if the the treasury prints the actual bills, in excess of actual GDP,
then the banks will lose, and collapse...thats why this thing is being
done with credit to the banks... and not by putting dollar bills into
peoples hands).


These guys in charge of the money, as corrupt as they are, probably do
know what they are doing in this aspect at least...they need to save
their own asses as well as ours.


***


Predictions:


a lot of folks will go broke in the financual turmoil...especially
retailers and people with high overhead and into non essential
businesses. * * * actual producers of goods, and essential services
with *low overhead will mostly survive imo.


actual producers who extend too much credit to those about to go
under, (that is about half the Malls and stores in the US) * *will get
burnt...due to tight money, that will put many contractors etc out of
business as we are already seeing.


this is of course avoidable by structuring for low overhead
operations...getting a sufficient advance on jobs and progress
payments in advance of progress...


I think those contractors will survive ... (this was a memo to one of
my contr clients)


Phil scott


Do you have anything to say about home repairs? *No?


Ive semi retired as a mech /electrical engr. and currently do my own
and a few commcl building repairs...Im not so bad at it.
in some aspects I can be of significant help.

Your situation apparently is that you misconstrue an off topic post
as a troll... those are two different animals.... USENET rules btw
encourage
a degree of off topic posts, as broader human interest.. 20% or so is
the
number mentioned.


You personally, appear to have a desire to trash others... friend,
that backfires
internally on its host,,, you are suffering from that. but its
reversible by obvious
measures.

I wish you well in these regards,


Phil scott

be gone, troll

plonk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


  #44   Report Post  
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Default How I think the economy will go and why

On Jul 14, 5:33*am, Frank wrote:
SteveB wrote:
"phil scott" wrote in message
....
It is a fact that if a nation PRINTS trillions of dollars to solve its
financial problems, that hyper inflation and collapse will follow.


However.... our US govt is NOT *printing any money,...... it is
**issuing electronic credits***, that act as money, and may indeed
stimulate the economy....this is assisted by low interest rates so
people can afford to buy homes and build businesses etc... *little
actual money is being printed though.


all this is happening as deflation due to tough economic times takes
the hot air out of the housing and stock markets etc. * the collapsing
tax base will also force the bloat out of government... * * all if
tgus us a *good thing.


This deflation *will be painful and *could lead to total collapse.....
unless enough trillions in added *credit are issued into the economy
through the banks to keep things afloat... floating on a massive sea
of *credit. * thats whats happening now...


its all just barely floating on a massive sea of credit... but it is
doing this as the housing and stock market bubbles deflate. * thats a
good and a necessary thing... so far we are deflating these bubbles,
and our bloated state governments without total collapse.


With luck that will be continued.


***** * again, this sea of funny money ***is not actually money***
(just credit), no extra currency is printed for most of it...


the US Dollar may very well *regain its value, when the FED raises
interest rates again after these bubbles hit bottom... * that will be
tricky and it remains to be seen how that will be pulled off,
especially given the 300 trillion dollars or so in hot air derivitives
(insurance policies used to guarantee bad loans).


it may be that as the large insurers, such as AIG go broke, file
bankrupcy and defualt that a good percentage of this derivitive mess
will simply evaporate *(like so many trillions in the worlds pension
funds have already evaporated.)


as the work force gets more *desperate, and half of the bloated govt
work force is laid off, and the rest got their bloated retirements cut
by 70% or so, and the social security recipients are unfortunately cut
back to starvation levels..... and we start manufacturing in the US
again...we will recover...... it will be a nasty next 15 to 20 years
(time span directly calculated from life expectancy tables)


all of that is necessary...and will happen on the current path if we
are lucky... depends on many things though, luck, oil prices, what we
do about nuclear energy, and what other nations do etc..


***


when that stabilizes, my guess in 10 or 20 years of tight times,
during which time the 80 million social security recipients will all
be deader than hell... restoriing the national economy... * *full
recovery will begin, that will take another 15 to 20 years... and we
have seen these time frames recently in China and Russia.


then.... interest rates will be raised again, restoring the value of
the US dollar in world markets. * Investing in the mean time may be
problematical. *Some high tech areas will pay off well. * The best
investments will be in ones own operation, skill sets and networks.


imo


***


Support for this argument is my observation that the FED is willing to
loan 'money' to the banks at 1% or less, and the banks are willing to
loan at 4%... that tells you that those in charge have a solution for
hyper inflation.. and I believe my memo here describes that
solution...


if relatively few *actual dollar bills are printed, paying the money
back will be difficult and the 4% intrest will provide the banks with
a real profit.


why:


(if the the treasury prints the actual bills, in excess of actual GDP,
then the banks will lose, and collapse...thats why this thing is being
done with credit to the banks... and not by putting dollar bills into
peoples hands).


These guys in charge of the money, as corrupt as they are, probably do
know what they are doing in this aspect at least...they need to save
their own asses as well as ours.


***


Predictions:


a lot of folks will go broke in the financual turmoil...especially
retailers and people with high overhead and into non essential
businesses. * * * actual producers of goods, and essential services
with *low overhead will mostly survive imo.


actual producers who extend too much credit to those about to go
under, (that is about half the Malls and stores in the US) * *will get
burnt...due to tight money, that will put many contractors etc out of
business as we are already seeing.


this is of course avoidable by structuring for low overhead
operations...getting a sufficient advance on jobs and progress
payments in advance of progress...


I think those contractors will survive ... (this was a memo to one of
my contr clients)


Phil scott


Do you have anything to say about home repairs? *No?


be gone, troll


plonk


Actually if BO's new energy bill goes through, it will have a lot to do
with home repair because homeowners must comply with it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


that is correct... and home owners are also currently being affected
by the economic mess,
staying strictly with how to fix ones toilet, does little to fuel
discussion on a NG.


Phil scott
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Default How I think the economy will go and why

On Jul 14, 10:02*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
Frank wrote :

SteveB wrote:
Do you have anything to say about home repairs? *No?


be gone, troll


plonk


Actually if BO's new energy bill goes through, it will have a lot to
do with home repair because homeowners must comply with it.


Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply with the
new laws.


now! that will be exciting! is that really the case?
Unbelievable if it is.
it will sure as hell keep us semi retired contractor types busy as
hell though.


Phil Scott


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net




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Default How I think the economy will go and why

On Jul 14, 1:28*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:


Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply
with the new laws.


Do you have a citation for this?
Thanks,
Doug


We dug it out once a couple of weeks ago (it's tough to find in a 1,400 page
bill)

It's in the House version of the Cap-and-Trade bill, though not as onerous
as it sounds. It originally applied to sales of ALL homes but was modified
to apply only to NEW construction. It includes the gamut of things down to
water heater insulation.


OK, thats better, NEW construction only, applied to existing homes it
would bankrupt
the existing housing market.



Still, it's the beginning of a federal standard of energy efficiency and
it's only a small additional step to impose it on the sale of existing
homes.


Phil scott

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