A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message
...
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table? Is it installed as a main panel or sub panel? There are a
variety of breakers that will work in the panel, including those that you
listed. Assuming that this is his main service panel, and you are concerned
that it doesn't have a main breaker in it, it may be because the main
breaker is located separately, and possibly outside, and possibly an
integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for up
to six double pole breakers.

On Jul 4, 1:30*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message

...

A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
* * * * * *Andy

You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?

Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for up
to six double pole breakers.

What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message

...

A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?

Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for up
to six double pole breakers.

What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy


OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel, it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to determine?

On Jul 4, 2:33*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message

...

A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?

Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for up
to six double pole breakers.

What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel, it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to determine?

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

It is being used as the main service panel.

From what I can see, there is no way to shut off power to the whole
house in one step.

I see 2 options. Turn off every breaker or pull the meter.

Andy

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 2:33 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message

...

A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?

Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for
up
to six double pole breakers.

What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel, it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to
determine?

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

It is being used as the main service panel.

From what I can see, there is no way to shut off power to the whole
house in one step.

I see 2 options. Turn off every breaker or pull the meter.

Andy

The NEC does require a service disconnect. If it's not part of the meter
equipment, or a separate switch located between the meter equipment and that
panel, and there are more than six circuit breakers in the panel, it's an
illegal installation

RBM wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 2:33 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message
...
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box
I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.
Where is the main breaker located located?
Thanks,
Andy
You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?
Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for
up
to six double pole breakers.
What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel, it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to
determine?

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

It is being used as the main service panel.

From what I can see, there is no way to shut off power to the whole
house in one step.

I see 2 options. Turn off every breaker or pull the meter.

Andy

The NEC does require a service disconnect. If it's not part of the meter
equipment, or a separate switch located between the meter equipment and that
panel, and there are more than six circuit breakers in the panel, it's an
illegal installation

Not necessarily "illegal", "non-compliant" is more generally so...

A similar thread very short while back established the disconnect, if
required owing to the breaker count, has to be within 6-ft of the
service equipment.

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 2:33 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message
...
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box
I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.
Where is the main breaker located located?
Thanks,
Andy
You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?
Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for
up
to six double pole breakers.
What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel,
it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to
determine?

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

It is being used as the main service panel.

From what I can see, there is no way to shut off power to the whole
house in one step.

I see 2 options. Turn off every breaker or pull the meter.

Andy

The NEC does require a service disconnect. If it's not part of the meter
equipment, or a separate switch located between the meter equipment and
that panel, and there are more than six circuit breakers in the panel,
it's an illegal installation

Not necessarily "illegal", "non-compliant" is more generally so...

A similar thread very short while back established the disconnect, if
required owing to the breaker count, has to be within 6-ft of the service
equipment.


I meant illegal, in the non-compliant sense.
--

RBM wrote:
....

I meant illegal, in the non-compliant sense.

That's "nonconforming"...

--

A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy


*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out fuses.

On Jul 4, 9:45*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
* * * * * *Andy

*Anything is possible. *As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. *Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp breaker
could be the main for the lower half. *You can remove the panel cover to see
if it is a split buss. *If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. *It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location..
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? *Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out fuses..

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.

Andy

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover to
see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.



*I guess that there is no main disconnect. Maybe the house is located in an
area where there aren't any code requirements.

John Grabowski wrote:

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split
buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp
breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover
to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out
fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.



*I guess that there is no main disconnect. Maybe the house is located
in an area where there aren't any code requirements.
What year was the house built? Is this the original service panel, and
the original meter base? Unless this place is post-1960s, I suspect one
or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location. A 2600 foot house presumably has a drop sized for at least 150
amps. If it was all wired at the same time, they would have put a
shutoff somewhere. I have seen meter bases with an extended lower
section, and the shutoff is a pullout block in there, and it is not at
all self-evident, especially if it got painted to match the house.

--
aem sends,,,

WhiteTea wrote:
On Jul 4, 2:33 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message
...
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box
I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.
Where is the main breaker located located?
Thanks,
Andy
You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?
Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for up
to six double pole breakers.
What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel, it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to determine?

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

No problem with that. But if you want to learn to be a good one you
might want to work on formulating questions.


It is being used as the main service panel.

See that wasn't so bad. Your original question might have been "I
observed my friends service entrance and noticed the circuit breakers
are colocated with the meter but there is nothing that appears to be a
main breaker. There are only multiple lower current breakers. Is this
compliant?"


From what I can see, there is no way to shut off power to the whole
house in one step.

I see 2 options. Turn off every breaker or pull the meter.

Andy

On Jul 4, 9:45*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:



*Anything is possible. *As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. *Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp breaker
could be the main for the lower half. *You can remove the panel cover to see
if it is a split buss. *If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. *It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location..
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? *Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

..
If a service panel is feeding a subpanel 150' away in a separate
building, would the subpanel then require it's own disconnect?

"Red" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:



*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover to
see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

..
If a service panel is feeding a subpanel 150' away in a separate
building, would the subpanel then require it's own disconnect?

Yes

George wrote:

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

No problem with that. But if you want to learn to be a good one you
might want to work on formulating questions.


With some scientists, the answer comes first, as in: "Why is the earth
warming?"

On Jul 5, 11:24*am, Red wrote:
On Jul 4, 9:45*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:



*Anything is possible. *As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. *Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp breaker
could be the main for the lower half. *You can remove the panel cover to see
if it is a split buss. *If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. *It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? *Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

.
If a service panel is feeding a subpanel 150' away in a separate
building, would the subpanel then require it's own disconnect?

The Service Disconnecting Means may consist of up to six sets of
fuses, sets of circuit breakers with listed handle ties, circuit
breakers, or fused pull outs. Building Disconnecting Means are
treated as if they were Service Disconnecting Means. What is required
to have not more then two disconnecting means is any panel that has
more then ten percent of it's circuits at thirty amperes or less and
having a grounded current carrying conductor as part of the circuit.

--
Tom Horne

On Jul 5, 9:33*am, George wrote:
WhiteTea wrote:
On Jul 4, 2:33 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

....
On Jul 4, 1:30 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message
....
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box
I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.
Where is the main breaker located located?
Thanks,
Andy
You're not giving much information. Is this installed or sitting on his
kitchen table?
Very silly question.

integral part of the meter box. It is also possible that it is a split
buss
panel with main breaker section on the top, which would have spaces for up
to six double pole breakers.
What I have is called a main lug load center.
It has no main breaker.

Andy

OK, it's a main lug panel. If it's not used as the main service panel, it
doesn't require a main breaker. What , exactly are you trying to determine?

I like asking questions. I am a scientist.

No problem with that. But if you want to learn to be a good one you
might want to work on formulating questions.



Is it possible that you are being overly critical?

Andy

On Jul 5, 8:35*am, aemeijers wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
....
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split
buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp
breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover
to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location..
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out
fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.

*I guess that there is no main disconnect. *Maybe the house is located
in an area where there aren't any code requirements.

What year was the house built? Is this the original service panel, and
the original meter base? Unless this place is post-1960s, I suspect one
or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location. A 2600 foot house presumably has a drop sized for at least 150
amps. If it was all wired at the same time, they would have put a
shutoff somewhere. I have seen meter bases with an extended lower
section, and the shutoff is a pullout block in there, and it is not at
all self-evident, especially if it got painted to match the house.

--
aem sends,,,

Thanks for a helpful response.

I looked up the appraisal and found it was built in 1965.

I think the important thing is that the circuits are protected.

In the box there are 4 breakers(among others) next to each other with
a bar attached to all of them with the number 40 on it.
I tried to see where the wires led to, but there were too many wires
in the box.

Another interesting thing is the ground wire for the box.

Instead of an insulated wire going to the copper ground rod, it
APPEARS that the uninsulated ground wire goes behind the brick
and comes out a hole close to the grounding rod.

There is also an uninsulated wire going from the grounding rod to the
outside AC unit.
I am not sure that is up to snuff. :-)

Take care,
Andy




Andy

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 5, 8:35 am, aemeijers wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split
buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp
breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover
to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that
this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located
somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out
fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.

*I guess that there is no main disconnect. Maybe the house is located
in an area where there aren't any code requirements.

What year was the house built? Is this the original service panel, and
the original meter base? Unless this place is post-1960s, I suspect one
or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location. A 2600 foot house presumably has a drop sized for at least 150
amps. If it was all wired at the same time, they would have put a
shutoff somewhere. I have seen meter bases with an extended lower
section, and the shutoff is a pullout block in there, and it is not at
all self-evident, especially if it got painted to match the house.

--
aem sends,,,

Thanks for a helpful response.

I looked up the appraisal and found it was built in 1965.

I think the important thing is that the circuits are protected.

In the box there are 4 breakers(among others) next to each other with
a bar attached to all of them with the number 40 on it.
I tried to see where the wires led to, but there were too many wires
in the box.

Another interesting thing is the ground wire for the box.

Instead of an insulated wire going to the copper ground rod, it
APPEARS that the uninsulated ground wire goes behind the brick
and comes out a hole close to the grounding rod.

There is also an uninsulated wire going from the grounding rod to the
outside AC unit.
I am not sure that is up to snuff. :-)

Take care,
Andy

FWIW, grounding electrode conductors can be either insulated or bare. Even
houses built in 1965 were required to have service disconnects. I suspect
that you may not be understanding the wiring in the panel you have, and that
it may very well be a split buss type. A picture would clarify your
situation

On Jul 5, 5:34*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 8:35 am, aemeijers wrote:



John Grabowski wrote:

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
....
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split
buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp
breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover
to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that
this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located
somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out
fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.

*I guess that there is no main disconnect. Maybe the house is located
in an area where there aren't any code requirements.

What year was the house built? Is this the original service panel, and
the original meter base? Unless this place is post-1960s, I suspect one
or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location. A 2600 foot house presumably has a drop sized for at least 150
amps. If it was all wired at the same time, they would have put a
shutoff somewhere. I have seen meter bases with an extended lower
section, and the shutoff is a pullout block in there, and it is not at
all self-evident, especially if it got painted to match the house.

--
aem sends,,,

Thanks for a helpful response.

I looked up the appraisal and found it was built in 1965.

I think the important thing is that the circuits are protected.

In the box there are 4 breakers(among others) next to each other with
a bar attached to all of them with the number 40 on it.
I tried to see where the wires led to, but there were too many wires
in the box.

Another interesting thing is the ground wire for the box.

Instead of an insulated wire going to the copper ground rod, it
APPEARS that the uninsulated ground wire goes behind the brick
and comes out a hole close to the grounding rod.

There is also an uninsulated wire going from the grounding rod to the
outside AC unit.
I am not sure that is up to snuff. :-)

Take care,
* * * * * * * * *Andy

FWIW, grounding electrode conductors can be either insulated or bare. Even
houses built in 1965 were required to have service disconnects. I suspect
that you may not be understanding the wiring in the panel you have, and that
it may very well be a split buss type. A picture would clarify your
situation

Using the picture at this site, I determined that the panel is NOT a
split bus.
http://www.aohomeinspection.com/pdf/FPE_Panels.pdf

or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location.

When I do repair work, I don't make assumptions.

If you cut corners on plumbing you may have a leak.
Mistakes in electrical work can be deadly.

Andy

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 5, 5:34 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 8:35 am, aemeijers wrote:



John Grabowski wrote:

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less
no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split
buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp
breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover
to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that
this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located
somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter
location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a
single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out
fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.

*I guess that there is no main disconnect. Maybe the house is located
in an area where there aren't any code requirements.

What year was the house built? Is this the original service panel, and
the original meter base? Unless this place is post-1960s, I suspect one
or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location. A 2600 foot house presumably has a drop sized for at least 150
amps. If it was all wired at the same time, they would have put a
shutoff somewhere. I have seen meter bases with an extended lower
section, and the shutoff is a pullout block in there, and it is not at
all self-evident, especially if it got painted to match the house.

--
aem sends,,,

Thanks for a helpful response.

I looked up the appraisal and found it was built in 1965.

I think the important thing is that the circuits are protected.

In the box there are 4 breakers(among others) next to each other with
a bar attached to all of them with the number 40 on it.
I tried to see where the wires led to, but there were too many wires
in the box.

Another interesting thing is the ground wire for the box.

Instead of an insulated wire going to the copper ground rod, it
APPEARS that the uninsulated ground wire goes behind the brick
and comes out a hole close to the grounding rod.

There is also an uninsulated wire going from the grounding rod to the
outside AC unit.
I am not sure that is up to snuff. :-)

Take care,
Andy

FWIW, grounding electrode conductors can be either insulated or bare. Even
houses built in 1965 were required to have service disconnects. I suspect
that you may not be understanding the wiring in the panel you have, and
that
it may very well be a split buss type. A picture would clarify your
situation

Using the picture at this site, I determined that the panel is NOT a
split bus.
http://www.aohomeinspection.com/pdf/FPE_Panels.pdf

or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location.

When I do repair work, I don't make assumptions.

If you cut corners on plumbing you may have a leak.
Mistakes in electrical work can be deadly.

Andy


Split buss panels will look different for each manufacturer. Sometimes the
internal set of wires from one of the mains to the bottom section is pretty
well hidden. Certainly an easy enough thing to figure out, by killing each
double pole breaker and seeing if any single pole breakers go dead
simultaneously

On Jul 5, 8:08*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"WhiteTea" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 5:34 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"WhiteTea" wrote in message

....
On Jul 5, 8:35 am, aemeijers wrote:

John Grabowski wrote:

"WhiteTea" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 9:45 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
A friend has a breaker box with Cutler Hammer breakers. in a 125 Amp
box

I saw some 20 and 40 amp breakers but no main breaker.
One of them is BR2020 for the 20 amp breaker.

Where is the main breaker located located?

Thanks,
Andy

*Anything is possible. As RBM said if there are six circuits or less
no
main is required. Also as mentioned before the panel could be a split
buss
and no main would be required for the entire panel, but the 40 amp
breaker
could be the main for the lower half. You can remove the panel cover
to see
if it is a split buss. If this is an older house it is possible that
this
is a sub-panel and the main panel or main disconnect is located
somewhere
else. It is possible to have the main disconnect at the meter
location.
Where is this panel in relation to the electric meter? Is this a
single
family house or a multifamily dwelling such as a condominium.?

I have a customer who has an older Cutler Hammer panel with circuit
breakers, but the main disconnect in the panel is a set of pull-out
fuses.

When I took the panel off, I saw that the 2 wires from the meter go
right to the bus bar.

I am sure that it was built to the current code at the time.

The house is a single family.

The house is 2600 square foot, the 40 amp breaker may feed the central
AC unit.

*I guess that there is no main disconnect. Maybe the house is located
in an area where there aren't any code requirements.

What year was the house built? Is this the original service panel, and
the original meter base? Unless this place is post-1960s, I suspect one
or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location. A 2600 foot house presumably has a drop sized for at least 150
amps. If it was all wired at the same time, they would have put a
shutoff somewhere. I have seen meter bases with an extended lower
section, and the shutoff is a pullout block in there, and it is not at
all self-evident, especially if it got painted to match the house.

--
aem sends,,,

Thanks for a helpful response.

I looked up the appraisal and found it was built in 1965.

I think the important thing is that the circuits are protected.

In the box there are 4 breakers(among others) next to each other with
a bar attached to all of them with the number 40 on it.
I tried to see where the wires led to, but there were too many wires
in the box.

Another interesting thing is the ground wire for the box.

Instead of an insulated wire going to the copper ground rod, it
APPEARS that the uninsulated ground wire goes behind the brick
and comes out a hole close to the grounding rod.

There is also an uninsulated wire going from the grounding rod to the
outside AC unit.
I am not sure that is up to snuff. :-)

Take care,
Andy

FWIW, grounding electrode conductors can be either insulated or bare. Even
houses built in 1965 were required to have service disconnects. I suspect
that you may not be understanding the wiring in the panel you have, and
that
it may very well be a split buss type. A picture would clarify your
situation

Using the picture at this site, I determined that the panel is NOT a
split bus.http://www.aohomeinspection.com/pdf/FPE_Panels.pdf

or the other has been changed, maybe both. Maybe different electricians
did the swaps, and each assumed there was a main shutoff at the other
location.

When I do repair work, I don't make assumptions.

If you cut corners on plumbing you may have a leak.
Mistakes in electrical work can be deadly.

Andy

Split buss panels will look different for each manufacturer. Sometimes the
internal set of wires from one of the mains to the bottom section is pretty
well hidden. Certainly an easy enough thing to figure out, by killing each
double pole breaker and seeing if any single pole breakers go dead
simultaneously

Killed the double pole breaker and none of the other breakers went
dead.

I will try to anticipate your next question.

No, I will not send you the box because you don't believe it's not a
split bus panel. :-)

Andy

Killed the double pole breaker and none of the other breakers went
dead.

If it were a split buss panel, you would undoubtedly have more than a single
double pole breaker

It is entirely possible that the service was installed improperly,
especially if the meter equipment and panel are of a mid 60's vintage




I will try to anticipate your next question.

No, I will not send you the box because you don't believe it's not a
split bus panel. :-)

Andy