wrote:
snip

Two hours a day, every day.

Well, if a smart charger is smart enough to go into trickle charge,
and stay there, then just how is it that my trickle charger which
trickles considerably less can somehow become dumb and harm
the battery?
Panasonic says a timer should terminate the C/20 - C/30 trickle. I
think a top-off trickle is foolish. Sometimes an automatic charger can
shut off before a cell is fully charged. So what? If sometimes I have
to swap batteries after running a device 9 hours instead of 10, I won't
notice. I will notice if I put charged cells on the shelf and they're
dead two weeks later because trickle charging has damaged them.

Just for you I measured the trickle charge using my method on AA's
that are already charged. 340 micro amps......for two hours a day.

Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says
- Panasonic says. Are you a parrot???????? What do you think?
Do you really think that a 340 micro amp trickle charge for two
hours a day will harm a battery?

I've told you what Panasonic says and what I think from my own experience.

How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far? I've seen it
with regulated chargers built in the early 1970s and with one I built in
the 1980s. Both ruined batteries pretty quickly. So I understand why
Panasonic recommends against trickle charging.

snip

For me, automatic fast charging has worked much better. My chargers
measure only voltage change, and that's not foolproof. Panasonic says
an ideal charger should monitor voltage, temperature, voltage change,
temperature change, and time.

Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says

By the way 340 micro amps represents a c/6000 charge rate. Do you
still think this is harmful?

Yes I do.

snip

Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says
- Panasonic says. Are you a parrot???????? What do you think?
Do you really think that a 340 micro amp trickle charge for two
hours a day will harm a battery?

I've told you what Panasonic says and what I think from my own experience.

How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far?

It's called electrical theory. Even the dumbest of dumb chargers have
to abide by it.

snip

By the way 340 micro amps represents a c/6000 charge rate. Do you
still think this is harmful?

Yes I do.

If that is what you think then it's pointless. Do you think near by
lightning strikes will harm the battery too?

wrote:
snip

Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says- Panasonic says
- Panasonic says. Are you a parrot???????? What do you think?
Do you really think that a 340 micro amp trickle charge for two
hours a day will harm a battery?
I've told you what Panasonic says and what I think from my own experience.

How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far?

It's called electrical theory. Even the dumbest of dumb chargers have
to abide by it.

The dumbest of dumb chargers use rectified sine waves. Without a
voltage regulator, the state of charge will have little effect on current.

How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far?

It's called electrical theory. Even the dumbest of dumb chargers have
to abide by it.

The dumbest of dumb chargers use rectified sine waves. Without a
voltage regulator, the state of charge will have little effect on current.

Really? The state of charge has a direct effect on the output of the
charger. Just what world do you live in?

wrote:
How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far?
It's called electrical theory. Even the dumbest of dumb chargers have
to abide by it.
The dumbest of dumb chargers use rectified sine waves. Without a
voltage regulator, the state of charge will have little effect on current.

Really? The state of charge has a direct effect on the output of the
charger. Just what world do you live in?

You're talking about capacitors. If you charged a capacitor with a
regulated 1.4V, the current would taper toward nothing at 1.4. With an
unregulated charger, current would taper toward nothing at about 2V.

Chemical batteries are different. Voltage-regulated chargers have been
used for lead-acid batteries but never worked for nickel batteries.
Terminal voltage on NiMH drops when it's fully charged, which means a
voltage-regulated or unregulated charger would speed up.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:09:20 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

wrote:
How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far?
It's called electrical theory. Even the dumbest of dumb chargers have
to abide by it.
The dumbest of dumb chargers use rectified sine waves. Without a
voltage regulator, the state of charge will have little effect on current.

Really? The state of charge has a direct effect on the output of the
charger. Just what world do you live in?

You're talking about capacitors. If you charged a capacitor with a
regulated 1.4V, the current would taper toward nothing at 1.4. With an
unregulated charger, current would taper toward nothing at about 2V.

Chemical batteries are different. Voltage-regulated chargers have been
used for lead-acid batteries but never worked for nickel batteries.
Terminal voltage on NiMH drops when it's fully charged, which means a
voltage-regulated or unregulated charger would speed up.

I can't believe how ignorant one can be. Regulated or not, battery
or not, when for example a source puts out one volt and a load holds
a 1 volt charge just what kind of current will flow from a 1000 amp
source?

Are you saying that I was lying about the 340 micro amp trickle
charge?

wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:09:20 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

wrote:
How did you get a plain dumb charger to cut back that far?
It's called electrical theory. Even the dumbest of dumb chargers have
to abide by it.
The dumbest of dumb chargers use rectified sine waves. Without a
voltage regulator, the state of charge will have little effect on current.
Really? The state of charge has a direct effect on the output of the
charger. Just what world do you live in?
You're talking about capacitors. If you charged a capacitor with a
regulated 1.4V, the current would taper toward nothing at 1.4. With an
unregulated charger, current would taper toward nothing at about 2V.

Chemical batteries are different. Voltage-regulated chargers have been
used for lead-acid batteries but never worked for nickel batteries.
Terminal voltage on NiMH drops when it's fully charged, which means a
voltage-regulated or unregulated charger would speed up.

I can't believe how ignorant one can be. Regulated or not, battery
or not, when for example a source puts out one volt and a load holds
a 1 volt charge just what kind of current will flow from a 1000 amp
source?

A load doesn't hold a charge. The only thing I know that can be said to
be charged to 1 volt is a capacitor. If your batteries are marked in
microfarads, they must be capacitors.

Are you saying that I was lying about the 340 micro amp trickle
charge?

I've seen it, but only with voltage-regulated chargers. I quit trying
to charge nickel batteries that way long ago. On a charger, a battery
that you know isn't fully charged may show the same voltage you expect
of a charged one, and trickle charging shortens the service life of a
nickel battery.

I can't believe how ignorant one can be. Regulated or not, battery
or not, when for example a source puts out one volt and a load holds
a 1 volt charge just what kind of current will flow from a 1000 amp
source?

You didn't answer the question.

A load doesn't hold a charge. The only thing I know that can be said to
be charged to 1 volt is a capacitor.

You are truly clueless.

If your batteries are marked in
microfarads, they must be capacitors.

Are you saying that I was lying about the 340 micro amp trickle
charge?

I've seen it, but only with voltage-regulated chargers. I quit trying
to charge nickel batteries that way long ago. On a charger, a battery
that you know isn't fully charged may show the same voltage you expect
of a charged one, and trickle charging shortens the service life of a
nickel battery.

Clueless. It take a regulator?????

wrote:
I can't believe how ignorant one can be. Regulated or not, battery
or not, when for example a source puts out one volt and a load holds
a 1 volt charge just what kind of current will flow from a 1000 amp
source?

You didn't answer the question.

Your question is gibberish. If a 1000 amp source puts 1 volt across the
load, the load is 1 milliohm.


A load doesn't hold a charge. The only thing I know that can be said to
be charged to 1 volt is a capacitor.

You are truly clueless.

A load doesn't hold a charge.

If your batteries are marked in
microfarads, they must be capacitors.
Are you saying that I was lying about the 340 micro amp trickle
charge?
I've seen it, but only with voltage-regulated chargers. I quit trying
to charge nickel batteries that way long ago. On a charger, a battery
that you know isn't fully charged may show the same voltage you expect
of a charged one, and trickle charging shortens the service life of a
nickel battery.

Clueless. It take a regulator?????

Without a regulator, a 1.4 VRMS transformer with a half-wave silicon
rectifier should yield similar results, but that transformer would be
useless as a dumb charger. You said it was a dumb charger.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:28:22 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

wrote:
I can't believe how ignorant one can be. Regulated or not, battery
or not, when for example a source puts out one volt and a load holds
a 1 volt charge just what kind of current will flow from a 1000 amp
source?

You didn't answer the question.

Your question is gibberish. If a 1000 amp source puts 1 volt across the
load, the load is 1 milliohm.

Clueless

A load doesn't hold a charge. The only thing I know that can be said to
be charged to 1 volt is a capacitor.

You are truly clueless.

A load doesn't hold a charge.

Ever hear of counter electromotive force........Clueless

If your batteries are marked in
microfarads, they must be capacitors.
Are you saying that I was lying about the 340 micro amp trickle
charge?
I've seen it, but only with voltage-regulated chargers. I quit trying
to charge nickel batteries that way long ago. On a charger, a battery
that you know isn't fully charged may show the same voltage you expect
of a charged one, and trickle charging shortens the service life of a
nickel battery.

Clueless. It take a regulator?????

Without a regulator, a 1.4 VRMS transformer with a half-wave silicon
rectifier should yield similar results, but that transformer would be
useless as a dumb charger. You said it was a dumb charger.

A dumb charger can be anything that has no feedback
loop.......Clueless.

wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:28:22 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

wrote:
I can't believe how ignorant one can be. Regulated or not, battery
or not, when for example a source puts out one volt and a load holds
a 1 volt charge just what kind of current will flow from a 1000 amp
source?
You didn't answer the question.
Your question is gibberish. If a 1000 amp source puts 1 volt across the
load, the load is 1 milliohm.

Clueless

A load doesn't hold a charge. The only thing I know that can be said to
be charged to 1 volt is a capacitor.
You are truly clueless.
A load doesn't hold a charge.
Ever hear of counter electromotive force........Clueless

You must be talking about 1 VAC on an inductive load. What does this
have to do with your dumb charger?


If your batteries are marked in
microfarads, they must be capacitors.
Are you saying that I was lying about the 340 micro amp trickle
charge?
I've seen it, but only with voltage-regulated chargers. I quit trying
to charge nickel batteries that way long ago. On a charger, a battery
that you know isn't fully charged may show the same voltage you expect
of a charged one, and trickle charging shortens the service life of a
nickel battery.
Clueless. It take a regulator?????
Without a regulator, a 1.4 VRMS transformer with a half-wave silicon
rectifier should yield similar results, but that transformer would be
useless as a dumb charger. You said it was a dumb charger.

A dumb charger can be anything that has no feedback
loop.......Clueless.

Feedback would be useless without a regulator.
A regulator would be useless without feedback.
When you talk about dumb chargers, you must mean chargers without
regulators.

Ever hear of counter electromotive force........Clueless

You must be talking about 1 VAC on an inductive load. What does this
have to do with your dumb charger?

AC or DC it doesn't matter. Electrical laws still apply. In this
case when a battery charges it creates a higher and higher
counter electromotive force. Eventually the counter force
equals the source and no current flows. This even applies to
a charger rated at 1000 amps.

Read up on EMF. You may learn something
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromotive_force

snip

Clueless. It take a regulator?????
Without a regulator, a 1.4 VRMS transformer with a half-wave silicon
rectifier should yield similar results, but that transformer would be
useless as a dumb charger. You said it was a dumb charger.

A dumb charger can be anything that has no feedback
loop.......Clueless.

Feedback would be useless without a regulator.
A regulator would be useless without feedback.

Your point????

When you talk about dumb chargers, you must mean chargers without
regulators.

Do I have to repeat? "A dumb charger can be anything that has no
feedback loop.......Clueless."

Getting lost? Oh, I forgot. You are clueless.

And now you are reverting to being just a common troll.
Say something on point or intelligent and I may respond.
Otherwise have a good day. I've proven my point.

wrote:
Ever hear of counter electromotive force........Clueless
You must be talking about 1 VAC on an inductive load. What does this
have to do with your dumb charger?

AC or DC it doesn't matter. Electrical laws still apply. In this
case when a battery charges it creates a higher and higher
counter electromotive force. Eventually the counter force
equals the source and no current flows. This even applies to
a charger rated at 1000 amps.

Read up on EMF. You may learn something
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromotive_force


You said "counter electromotive force." That applies only to inductance.