In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

On Jun 19, 5:03*pm, SparkyGuy wrote:
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

Only if he pays for it, no its not normal. Do T&M with a 1/4" brush.

On Jun 19, 5:03*pm, SparkyGuy wrote:

snip

organic varnish or polyurethane.

These are somewhat different materials. Presumably the term 'organic
varnish' simply means any old fashioned oil based coating, from
linseed oil, tung oil and the like. The PU can be oil based or water
based, the latter not as effective as a moisture barrier, which is
likely the intent of the request. The dual coating may reduce warping
of the boards, but is not usually done on quality moldings.

Joe

I live North of there.......in CA.
We back wash the exterior siding but have never sealed the interior
kickboard.
Is that because "mopping a floor"?
I guess if he pays...........I would do it.......just takes more time.....
john
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

Waste of time, money, and material, but if he wants to pay me to do it. I'd
take his money and do it. You don't even have to do the front side, but
it does look better and is easier to clean. Or his dog is going to pee on
it.

"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


Don't do any work for whiney SF fag boys and Pelosi supporters...

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:03:43 -0700, SparkyGuy
wrote:

In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

If the owner insists, and the owner is willing to pay for it, thne why
not?

"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk after
its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet rot
down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects the
sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave

SparkyGuy wrote:
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


What I've seen in situations like that, is the customer
accepts the price you give him for a normal job then
demands that you do double the amount of work for the
same price. You better have a contract that spells out
exactly what is included for the money.

TDD

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk after
its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet rot
down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects the
sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave


HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years for
that to happen....Sounds as if the owner is a PITA to me...I HOPE you had a
contract spelling out the work or are working time and materials...If not
you're in for quite a ride....The owner is full of ****....IMHO...

"benick" wrote in message
. ..

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
after its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet rot
down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects the
sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave


HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years for
that to happen....

This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. May be throughout
the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard height.
Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. A leaky
built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. A leaky sink
faucet at its base can do the same. Commonly, its due to a very slight gap
between the baseboard and floor. There is no baseboard in the last 2 items
mentioned though. Water accumulates between the baseboard and sole plate.
The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may transfer some of it to
the sheetrock. If the house has a subfloor with plywood covering, its
common for that plywood to take on that water as well. If the floor is
covered with carpet, water rot may attack the underlayment.
--
Dave

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
...
"benick" wrote in message
. ..

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
after its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet rot
down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects
the sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave


HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years
for that to happen....

This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. May be throughout
the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard height.
Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. A leaky
built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. A leaky sink
faucet at its base can do the same. Commonly, its due to a very slight
gap between the baseboard and floor. There is no baseboard in the last 2
items mentioned though. Water accumulates between the baseboard and sole
plate. The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may transfer some
of it to the sheetrock. If the house has a subfloor with plywood
covering, its common for that plywood to take on that water as well. If
the floor is covered with carpet, water rot may attack the underlayment.
--
Dave



That may be true Dave but what the hell does that have to do with requiring
the painter to seal the back side of the baseboard..With the leaks NOT
spills you mention sealing the baseboard won't do diddly squat...You'll have
ALOT more to be concerned about then the back side of the baseboard being
painted...As I said the homeowner is a PITA and is full of it....But thanks
for throwing the Red Herring into the discussion...

On Jun 20, 9:37*am, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message

obal.net...

In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk after
its nailed up. *The top can always be caulked.

Silicon caulk is a bad idea around painted surfaces - it interferes
with the paint adhesion. Siliconized (paintable) caulk is better.

R

On Jun 21, 10:41*am, "benick" wrote:
"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message

...



"benick" wrote in message
...

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
news:bradneg83aGIe6HXnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@earthlink. com...
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
cglobal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
after its nailed up. *The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet rot
down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. *The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. *This also affects
the sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave

HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years
for that to happen....

This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. *May be throughout
the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard height.
Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. *A leaky
built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. *A leaky sink
faucet at its base can do the same. *Commonly, its due to a very slight
gap between the baseboard and floor. *There is no baseboard in the last 2
items mentioned though. *Water accumulates between the baseboard and sole
plate. The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may transfer some
of it to the sheetrock. *If the house has a subfloor with plywood
covering, its common for that plywood to take on that water as well. *If
the floor is covered with carpet, water rot may attack the underlayment..
--
Dave

That may be true Dave but what the hell does that have to do with requiring
the painter to seal the back side of the baseboard..With the leaks NOT
spills you mention sealing the baseboard won't do diddly squat...You'll have
ALOT more to be concerned about then the back side of the baseboard being
painted...As I said the homeowner is a PITA and is full of it....But thanks
for throwing the Red Herring into the discussion...

My take as well. I ran across such customers at a very tender age.
My brother started mowing lawns and I helped him out. He agreed on a
price for mowing a lady's lawn, we finished the first time and went to
the door to collect the money, then she tells us that she wants the
lawn mowed in _both_ directions so the tire marks would make a
checkerboard pattern! Being young and stupid we did it for the same
price.

R

Dioclese wrote:
"benick" wrote in message
. ..
"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
after its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet rot
down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects the
sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave


HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years for
that to happen....

This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. May be throughout
the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard height.
Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. A leaky
built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. A leaky sink
faucet at its base can do the same. Commonly, its due to a very slight gap
between the baseboard and floor. There is no baseboard in the last 2 items
mentioned though. Water accumulates between the baseboard and sole plate.
The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may transfer some of it to
the sheetrock. If the house has a subfloor with plywood covering, its
common for that plywood to take on that water as well. If the floor is
covered with carpet, water rot may attack the underlayment.

That is why I keep plastic trays/washtubs/whatever in the cabinets under
all my sinks. Convenient for holding the cabinet junk so you can pull it
out and actually see it, but also acts as a catch basin when (not if) a
container starts leaking, or if the sink feed or trap starts leaking.
You can usually smell it before it overflows.

--
aem sends...

On Jun 19, 6:03*pm, SparkyGuy wrote:
The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.

"Change order" fee, plus 3-4 times the estimated original cost of that
portion of the job.

Give 'em whatever they're willing to pay for, nothing they're not.
-----

- gpsman

"benick" wrote in message
news

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
...
"benick" wrote in message
. ..

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
obal.net...
In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
kickboard
molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
organic varnish or polyurethane.

Recommendations?

Thanks.


Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
after its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.

Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet
rot down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects
the sole plate if its not PT.
--
Dave


HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years
for that to happen....

This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. May be
throughout the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard
height. Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. A
leaky built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. A leaky
sink faucet at its base can do the same. Commonly, its due to a very
slight gap between the baseboard and floor. There is no baseboard in the
last 2 items mentioned though. Water accumulates between the baseboard
and sole plate. The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may
transfer some of it to the sheetrock. If the house has a subfloor with
plywood covering, its common for that plywood to take on that water as
well. If the floor is covered with carpet, water rot may attack the
underlayment.
--
Dave



That may be true Dave but what the hell does that have to do with
requiring the painter to seal the back side of the baseboard..With the
leaks NOT spills you mention sealing the baseboard won't do diddly
squat...You'll have ALOT more to be concerned about then the back side of
the baseboard being painted...As I said the homeowner is a PITA and is
full of it....But thanks for throwing the Red Herring into the
discussion...

Its an overkill that does not do anything but preserve the baseboard in
limited flooding situations. Yes, I agree that this particular homeowner is
a PITA. In the event of a limited flooding situation, the remainder I've
talked about will have to be replaced.

I was specifying the situations where said source of water logging may occur
and what it usually affects. Not defending as to why or why not the sealing
of baseboard as you are under the impression of for no apparent reason to me
And, if you think it out after reading my input, you would realize that the
homeowner is wasting his/her time by my input. Not a digression from the
discussion as you suggest, just an expanded picture of why. Same to Rico.
Both newsgroup policemen.
--
Dave

On Jun 22, 7:10*am, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:

Its an overkill that does not do anything but preserve the baseboard in
limited flooding situations. *Yes, I agree that this particular homeowner is
a PITA. *In the event of a limited flooding situation, the remainder I've
talked about will have to be replaced.

I was specifying the situations where said source of water logging may occur
and what it usually affects. *Not defending as to why or why not the sealing
of baseboard as you are under the impression of for no apparent reason to me
And, if you think it out after reading my input, you would realize that the
homeowner is wasting his/her time by my input. *Not a digression from the
discussion as you suggest, just an expanded picture of why. *Same to Rico.
Both newsgroup policemen.

Sorry, but it is a digression. The OP asked about applying a sealant
to some molding, not waterproofing techniques. Caulking the baseboard
is just as likely to hide problems as prevent them. If water is
behind the caulk it won't readily seep out and let you know there's a
problem (not all 'leaks' are from klutzes spilling stuff inside their
houses).

It's generally far easier to convince an owner to modify their notions
then to just forget about them. The latter results in resentment and
"this guy is taking advantage of me" feelings, which show up when the
contractor is looking to get paid, or when a neighbor asks for a
referral.

In this particular case the contractor could up-sell the owner to some
fiberglass or PVC moldings so rot would never be an issue. It's still
a waste of time and money, but it's a scenario where both parties are
more likely to be happy with the outcome.

If you provide an opinion, you can expect to get an opinion on your
opinion - especially if it is questionable. It's nothing personal,
just newsgroup 'business'.

R

Sorry, but it is a digression. The OP asked about applying a sealant to
some molding, not waterproofing techniques. Caulking the baseboard
is just as likely to hide problems as prevent them. If water is behind the
caulk it won't readily seep out and let you know there's a
problem (not all 'leaks' are from klutzes spilling stuff inside their
houses).

Sort of like he Plumbing inspector in Tucson "insisting" I caulk my 3
toilets [New Construction] to the (tile) floor (over concrete slab)
I told him that "if" the wax ring was allowing leakage, I'd rather see it
RIGHT AWAY (on top of the tile) than let it seep thru the grout over time
and get under the tile and spread out under there B4 I could find the source
of the inevitable smell. He said the rules are the rules, so I put some
silicone spray under the edge of the toilets, wiped back and did a light
ring of DAP caulking. After he left, I stripped the caulking back off.
(PS: They never did leak anyway)

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jun 22, 7:10 am, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:

Its an overkill that does not do anything but preserve the baseboard in
limited flooding situations. Yes, I agree that this particular homeowner
is
a PITA. In the event of a limited flooding situation, the remainder I've
talked about will have to be replaced.

I was specifying the situations where said source of water logging may
occur
and what it usually affects. Not defending as to why or why not the
sealing
of baseboard as you are under the impression of for no apparent reason to
me
And, if you think it out after reading my input, you would realize that
the
homeowner is wasting his/her time by my input. Not a digression from the
discussion as you suggest, just an expanded picture of why. Same to Rico.
Both newsgroup policemen.

Sorry, but it is a digression. The OP asked about applying a sealant
to some molding, not waterproofing techniques. Caulking the baseboard
is just as likely to hide problems as prevent them. If water is
behind the caulk it won't readily seep out and let you know there's a
problem (not all 'leaks' are from klutzes spilling stuff inside their
houses).

It's generally far easier to convince an owner to modify their notions
then to just forget about them. The latter results in resentment and
"this guy is taking advantage of me" feelings, which show up when the
contractor is looking to get paid, or when a neighbor asks for a
referral.

In this particular case the contractor could up-sell the owner to some
fiberglass or PVC moldings so rot would never be an issue. It's still
a waste of time and money, but it's a scenario where both parties are
more likely to be happy with the outcome.

If you provide an opinion, you can expect to get an opinion on your
opinion - especially if it is questionable. It's nothing personal,
just newsgroup 'business'.

R

-----------

Alright, absorbed.

As I said, I expanded on what happens when water gets behind the baseboard.
That in itself explains why just addressing the back of the baseboard by
itself is a waste of time. I don't feel I have to defend that portion of my
response in any shape, manner, or form.

I know the silicon caulk works here in the bathroom along the
floor/baseboard line. Hardly a defense, but I don't feel I have to defend
things that I see that work in reality vs. someone's newsgroup opinion
otherwise. Believe your opinion is "kneejerk" in this specific regard.
--
Dave