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Oren wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:39:25 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:49:54 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

ObamaBinLyin wrote:


Obama thinks there are 60 states in the Union. and you voted for
him anyway. now who is the stupid one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

It was 57. In Obama's defense, there ARE 57 venues that held
Democratic primaries.

or caucuses

* The 50 states, of course, plus
* District of Columbia,
* Guam,
* Puerto Rico,
* U.S. Virgin Islands,


2 in US Virgin Islands- and 2 in American Samoa.

* Patagonia,
* British Honduras, and, er...
* Either Rhodesia or Burbank. I forget.


Jim


61 now?


Why not? It's a Democratic Party election.


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Red Green wrote:
The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you
tomorrow, sir."


Pretty good joke - up until the completely implausible last line.



Errrrr, it's a joke son, a joke.


Oh.

Sorry.


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On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:02:12 -0500, Red Green
wrote:

Pretty good joke - up until the completely implausible last line.



Errrrr, it's a joke son, a joke.


I really liked this one.

St. Peter is at the Pearly Gates checking up on the people waiting to
enter Heaven.

He asks the next one in line, 'So, who are you, and what did you do on
Earth?'

The fellow says, 'I'm Barack Obama, and I was the first black to be
elected President of the United States '

St. Peter says, 'The U.S.? A black President? You gotta be kidding me!
When did this happen?'

And Obama says,'About twenty minutes ago.'
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ObamaBinLyin wrote:

Obama thinks there are 60 states in the Union.


I don't suppose that pointing out that when someone says they have
*traveled* to 57 states it is not the same as their thinking there *are* 57
(or 60), would it?

and you voted for him anyway. now who is the stupid one?


Pretty obvious to me.

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HeyBub wrote:
ObamaBinLyin wrote:
Obama thinks there are 60 states in the Union. and you voted for him
anyway. now who is the stupid one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws


It was 57. In Obama's defense, there ARE 57 venues that held Democratic
primaries.

* The 50 states, of course, plus
* District of Columbia,
* Guam,
* Puerto Rico,
* U.S. Virgin Islands,
* Patagonia,
* British Honduras, and, er...
* Either Rhodesia or Burbank. I forget.


listen to the video. in it he says he's been to 57 states, 1 left to
go and 2, Alaska and Hawaii, that his handlers won't let him go to. so
for you dumocRATs out the 57+1+2=60. anymore questions?
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On 6/11/2009 11:32 AM spake thus:

On Jun 11, 12:19 pm, RicodJour wrote:

http://costofwar.com/ I don't see that that money was wisely invested
in our future, do you?


I say the money spent on the war in Afghanistan was absolutely the
correct thing to do. That's $190Bil.


Whoa. Stop right there.

So please, tell us just exactly what we got for our $190 B.

o Greater national security? (no)
o "Terrorism" suppressed/obliterated (no)
o People of the world love us more? (no)
o Afghans love us more? (no)
o Secure energy supplies? * (no)
o Giant steps toward world peace? (no)

I say that due to our stupid, adventuristic, totally avoidable, needless
and senseless recent wars (both Iraq and Afghanistan, now morphing into
"Af-Pak"), Al Quaeda has won twice.

First time when they attacked us on 9/11.
Second time when those wars bled the U.S. dry economically.

Nice going there.

(And just to toss you a little bone, I agree that Obama is absolutely no
better than Bush when it comes to foreign policy. Smarter, more
articulate, yes, but still a knee-jerk defender of the American Empire.)


* When folks talk about the fossil fuel in the Middle East as if it
belongs to us by sacred fiat, it always reminds me of one of my favorite
antiwar protest signs:

HOW DID OUR OIL GET UNDER THEIR SAND???


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
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On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:48:04 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:

Because, one more time, the attitude in Germany was exactly yours.
As long as I have food, a roof over my head and Hitler makes the
trains run on time,


A minor point of order...it was Mussolini who was noted for punctual trains,
not Hitler.


Don't confuse him with facts. He's disoriented enough.

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On Jun 11, 7:20*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

(And just to toss you a little bone, I agree that Obama is absolutely no
better than Bush when it comes to foreign policy. Smarter, more
articulate, yes, but still a knee-jerk defender of the American Empire.)


Someone couldn't get elected President if they weren't.
Not necessarily a good thing, but a thing nevertheless.

R


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Jim Yanik wrote:
"George Jetson" wrote in
:

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
Bozo wrote:

On Jun 10, 7:51 pm, Oren wrote:
Will they use a tele-promter?
I wonder what those irrational Bush haters would have said if W. had
relied on one of those things even for events that are expected to
be spontaneous. But the propaganda machine is oiled and tuned and
we'll be lucky to be getting even a remotely reasonable facsimile of
the truth by the end of Barack's first, and God willing, last term.
Everything this guy says is shrouded in the Move-On mist. He makes
the Clintons look like amateurs.
Yeah, good point, using a teleprompter is waaaay more serious than
starting a war on false pretenses.


only one with BDS would continue to insist the Iraq was began on "false
pretenses". Before Bush became president,BJClinton also stated Saddam still
had WMD. Foreign leaders all believed he had WMD.

And theere was more than just that reasom for going to war with Saddam.
You folks just didn't listen.


Not many folks understood that the war had to be sold to
the American public because your typical member of the
dumb masses could not comprehend that the war was about
stability. Saddam Hussein was crazy enough to attack
Israel and Israel would not be held back again as in the
Gulf War. Iraq would be a smoldering mass of radioactive
glass if Saddam had attacked them. All the other Islamic
nations would respond by jumping Israel and it would turn
in to another world war. The United States had to become
the bad guy. When BeeHO took office, I can be certain that
he had a case of brown shorts after he was briefed (no pun)
about what is really going on in the world.

TDD
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RB wrote:
George Jetson wrote:
"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
Bozo wrote:

On Jun 10, 7:51 pm, Oren wrote:

Will they use a tele-promter?

I wonder what those irrational Bush haters would have said if W. had
relied on one of those things even for events that are expected to be
spontaneous. But the propaganda machine is oiled and tuned and we'll
be lucky to be getting even a remotely reasonable facsimile of the
truth by the end of Barack's first, and God willing, last term.
Everything this guy says is shrouded in the Move-On mist. He makes
the Clintons look like amateurs.

Yeah, good point, using a teleprompter is waaaay more serious than
starting a war on false pretenses.


Somewhere in texas a small village is going to get its idiot back, God
help them.


That village in Kenya is still one idiot short


Watch it, Kenyans are great folks, we have a lot of them
around here and you couldn't have a better neighbor.

TDD
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On 6/11/2009 4:51 PM RicodJour spake thus:

On Jun 11, 7:20 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

(And just to toss you a little bone, I agree that Obama is absolutely no
better than Bush when it comes to foreign policy. Smarter, more
articulate, yes, but still a knee-jerk defender of the American Empire.)


Someone couldn't get elected President if they weren't.
Not necessarily a good thing, but a thing nevertheless.


Yes, that's the correct, Chomskian analysis. Nobody gets into the Oval
Office without certain baseline requirements.


--
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DGDevin wrote:
Bozo wrote:

I love it when someone who has no idea what "Communist" means throws
it into any sentence about someone he dislikes,

Definitions of Communism from Dictionary.com:

1." A system of government in which the state plans and controls
the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power,
claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all
goods are equally shared by the people."
2. "The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that
advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the
proletariat."

The fact that unwitting accomplices choose to ignore what is unfolding
right before their eyes without making any effort to challenge or
question what this guy is doing, doesn't change the fact that it is
happening.


That some folks choose to hear Commies thumping around under their beds at
night does not mean the rest of the nation need share their irrational
fears. Elections have consequences, we heard that the past eight years in
reference to foreign and domestic policy. But suddenly when an election
produces a result some folks don't like, look out, the old slogans from the
McCarthy era get dusted off. Meanwhile the percentage of the population
that will admit to being Republican has dropped to something like 21%, and
the old Democratic Party circular firing squad has been replaced by an odd
exercise where Republicans criticize Rush Limbaugh and then have to eat
their words when El Rushbo jerks their leash. Me, I'm looking forward to
the day when the Republican Party rebuilds itself with real conservatives in
charge (as opposed to the opportunistic clowns and right-wingnuts currently
calling the shots). As a lifelong conservative I find it kind of
embarrassing to have no party representing my point of view available.
Meanwhile those of you who see Communists hiding behind every bush need to
grow up, you're making fools of yourselves.



Republicans disgust me but Democrats are special,
they horrify me.

TDD


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HeyBub wrote:
Gene Jackson wrote:
"posta..." wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 9:07 am, wrote:

As for the claim made above that the military vote went for Obama,
I'd like to see a credible reference for that.

The Daily Kos, The Huffington Post, Move-On, you know, the same
rational, well-meaning folks who continue to perpetuate the propaganda
that Bush stole the election, despite the postmortem conducted by all
the major liberal media outlets which showed that W. got more votes.

The truth of the matter was it was Gore who started the whole recount
thing trying to steal the election by demanding recounts only in
Florida counties he believed would favor the outcome for him. But no
one seems to remember or advertise that.

What was the position of the Florida Secretary of State? You know,
the one responsible for elections? A republican?


Yes. The Republican Secretary of State (Kathleen Harris), however, had zero
control over the election process. She had no authority or responsibility
regarding the counting of votes. Her job, vis-a-vis the election, was to
maintain state-wide voter registration lists and to accept the certified
results of the election from the county canvassing boards.



DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO CONFRONT A LIBERAL WITH FACTS.
It confuses them and causes a marked increase in their
blood pressure and a lot of screaming, cursing and
name calling. Be a compassionate Conservative and show
some concern for their health.

TDD
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On Jun 11, 8:40*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
SHHHHHH! Don't tell them any different, just tell them that
you live in the fifty ninth state and let them come looking
for you.

TDD


Ha! Can't you just see it? Hordes of Acorn recruits scurrying across
the countryside in characteristic disorganized liberal fashion in
search of the 59th state...
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"ObamaBinLyin" wrote in message

The old man looked at the Marine and said, "Oh, I understand. I
just love hearing it."

The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you
tomorrow, sir."
Pretty good joke - up until the completely implausible last line.
Au contraire; I think that's the best part of the joke.


First time I heard the joke was after the change from Clinton to Bush.


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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"ObamaBinLyin" wrote in message
The old man looked at the Marine and said, "Oh, I understand. I
just love hearing it."

The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you
tomorrow, sir."
Pretty good joke - up until the completely implausible last line.
Au contraire; I think that's the best part of the joke.


First time I heard the joke was after the change from Clinton to Bush.



Joke recycling or plagiarism?

TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

That village in Kenya is still one idiot short


Watch it, Kenyans are great folks, we have a lot of them
around here and you couldn't have a better neighbor.


The difference is they're all here because they're not all there.


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The Daring Dufas wrote:

What was the position of the Florida Secretary of State? You know,
the one responsible for elections? A republican?


Yes. The Republican Secretary of State (Kathleen Harris), however,
had zero control over the election process. She had no authority or
responsibility regarding the counting of votes. Her job, vis-a-vis
the election, was to maintain state-wide voter registration lists
and to accept the certified results of the election from the county
canvassing boards.


DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO CONFRONT A LIBERAL WITH FACTS.
It confuses them and causes a marked increase in their
blood pressure and a lot of screaming, cursing and
name calling. Be a compassionate Conservative and show
some concern for their health.


I AM concerned for their health. I think Adrenaline is good for them! And
for me. Laughter is good for the digestion and watching someone itch to
death is hilarious.

Make some popcorn and watch what happens over the following statement.

In 1978 thru 1981 it was estimated that there were 40,000 abortions
performed in the state of Florida. Those 40,000 non-births would have been
voting in their first election in 2000 had they not been aborted.

Since children generally follow the political inclinations of their parents,
and a woman who would have an abortion is more likely to be of a liberal
persuasion than otherwise, Al Gore did not receive up to 40,000 or so votes
he would have otherwise gotten had abortion been unlawful.

Gore lost by 585 votes.

For those who are interested, this is called "The Roe Effect."


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David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/11/2009 11:32 AM spake thus:

On Jun 11, 12:19 pm, RicodJour wrote:

http://costofwar.com/ I don't see that that money was wisely
invested in our future, do you?


I say the money spent on the war in Afghanistan was absolutely the
correct thing to do. That's $190Bil.


Whoa. Stop right there.

So please, tell us just exactly what we got for our $190 B.

o Greater national security? (no)
o "Terrorism" suppressed/obliterated (no)
o People of the world love us more? (no)
o Afghans love us more? (no)
o Secure energy supplies? * (no)
o Giant steps toward world peace? (no)

I say that due to our stupid, adventuristic, totally avoidable,
needless and senseless recent wars (both Iraq and Afghanistan, now
morphing into "Af-Pak"), Al Quaeda has won twice.

First time when they attacked us on 9/11.
Second time when those wars bled the U.S. dry economically.

Nice going there.

(And just to toss you a little bone, I agree that Obama is absolutely
no better than Bush when it comes to foreign policy. Smarter, more
articulate, yes, but still a knee-jerk defender of the American
Empire.)

* When folks talk about the fossil fuel in the Middle East as if it
belongs to us by sacred fiat, it always reminds me of one of my
favorite antiwar protest signs:

HOW DID OUR OIL GET UNDER THEIR SAND???


Before you hold up something completely ridiculous to point out the
absurdity of some position, know this: During the oil price contretemps last
year, more than one voice suggested that Middle Eastern oil should be
denominated as a "world resource" to be administered and allocated by a
global governing body under U.N. auspices. Of course the U.S. would be the
only entity with enough power to enforce such a sharing...

And oil is a time-tested reason for going to war. Hitler invaded Russia over
oil. The Japanese attacked us over both our embargo of oil and so they could
plunder the Dutch East Indies unmolested. Fact is, oil probably played a
part in our invasion of Iraq (shhh! don't tell anybody).

No, oil is a pretty good reason for a war.


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HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
That village in Kenya is still one idiot short

Watch it, Kenyans are great folks, we have a lot of them
around here and you couldn't have a better neighbor.


The difference is they're all here because they're not all there.



I'm going to the clinic today and the therapist who
will be changing the pressure bandage on my leg is
a wonderful gal from Kenya. All of the *REAL*
Africans I've met were wonderful people. When I tell
someone that there are a lot of Africans in Birmingham,
I get funny looks.

TDD
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HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
What was the position of the Florida Secretary of State? You know,
the one responsible for elections? A republican?
Yes. The Republican Secretary of State (Kathleen Harris), however,
had zero control over the election process. She had no authority or
responsibility regarding the counting of votes. Her job, vis-a-vis
the election, was to maintain state-wide voter registration lists
and to accept the certified results of the election from the county
canvassing boards.

DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO CONFRONT A LIBERAL WITH FACTS.
It confuses them and causes a marked increase in their
blood pressure and a lot of screaming, cursing and
name calling. Be a compassionate Conservative and show
some concern for their health.


I AM concerned for their health. I think Adrenaline is good for them! And
for me. Laughter is good for the digestion and watching someone itch to
death is hilarious.

Make some popcorn and watch what happens over the following statement.

In 1978 thru 1981 it was estimated that there were 40,000 abortions
performed in the state of Florida. Those 40,000 non-births would have been
voting in their first election in 2000 had they not been aborted.

Since children generally follow the political inclinations of their parents,
and a woman who would have an abortion is more likely to be of a liberal
persuasion than otherwise, Al Gore did not receive up to 40,000 or so votes
he would have otherwise gotten had abortion been unlawful.

Gore lost by 585 votes.

For those who are interested, this is called "The Roe Effect."



I've tried to explain that concept to anti-abortion
conservatives. The good conservative woman is not
going to get an abortion and probably not get pregnant
out of wedlock anyway. The Liberal fornicator is going
to seek an abortion because she doesn't want to deal
with the consequences of her behavior. Republicans
should not oppose abortions for Democrats. It's simple,
out-breed them and soon be the majority party. It's
hard to get people to understand that if you give the
government the power to force you to have a child, you
automatically give the government the power to tell you
that you can't have a child. Communist China is that way
now.

TDD


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The Daring Dufas wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"George Jetson" wrote in
:

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
Bozo wrote:

On Jun 10, 7:51 pm, Oren wrote:
Will they use a tele-promter?
I wonder what those irrational Bush haters would have said if W.
had relied on one of those things even for events that are
expected to be spontaneous. But the propaganda machine is oiled
and tuned and we'll be lucky to be getting even a remotely
reasonable facsimile of the truth by the end of Barack's first,
and God willing, last term. Everything this guy says is shrouded
in the Move-On mist. He makes the Clintons look like amateurs.
Yeah, good point, using a teleprompter is waaaay more serious than
starting a war on false pretenses.


only one with BDS would continue to insist the Iraq was began on
"false pretenses". Before Bush became president,BJClinton also
stated Saddam still had WMD. Foreign leaders all believed he had WMD.

And theere was more than just that reasom for going to war with
Saddam. You folks just didn't listen.


Not many folks understood that the war had to be sold to
the American public because your typical member of the
dumb masses could not comprehend that the war was about
stability. Saddam Hussein was crazy enough to attack
Israel and Israel would not be held back again as in the
Gulf War. Iraq would be a smoldering mass of radioactive
glass if Saddam had attacked them. All the other Islamic
nations would respond by jumping Israel and it would turn
in to another world war. The United States had to become
the bad guy. When BeeHO took office, I can be certain that
he had a case of brown shorts after he was briefed (no pun)
about what is really going on in the world.


And that's what - the 135th reason for why we got into this stupid wastful
idiodic war?

And not one with a basis in fact.


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On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:34:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"ObamaBinLyin" wrote in message
The old man looked at the Marine and said, "Oh, I understand. I
just love hearing it."

The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you
tomorrow, sir."
Pretty good joke - up until the completely implausible last line.
Au contraire; I think that's the best part of the joke.


First time I heard the joke was after the change from Clinton to Bush.



Joke recycling or plagiarism?

TDD


No one will ever accuse you of original thought.

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On Jun 11, 1:59*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:36:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:16*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:04:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Excuse me, but I think
it's important that we not re-write history.


Then it is your duty to stop immediately!


""Saddam, as evil as he was, was also a major foe of Bin Laden, and
was
doing a better job then we have at containing him"


In other words, you have no reference for the above foolish claim.


Believe what you like. I'd invite you to think what you'd like, but I
know that's impossible.


No, I believe what is shown to be FACT. You're the one running
around spouting nonsense, and when challenged, can't back it up with
any reference. So, it is YOU, not I that chooses to believe just what
you like, regardless of how bogus it is.


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On Jun 12, 2:25*am, "Bob F" wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"George Jetson" wrote in
m:


"DGDevin" wrote in message
news:P5Kdna7eCdMxPa3XnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@earthlink .com...
Bozo wrote:


On Jun 10, 7:51 pm, Oren wrote:
Will they use a tele-promter?
I wonder what those irrational Bush haters would have said if W.
had relied on one of those things even for events that are
expected to be spontaneous. *But the propaganda machine is oiled
and tuned and we'll be lucky to be getting even a remotely
reasonable facsimile of the truth by the end of Barack's first,
and God willing, last term. Everything this guy says is shrouded
in the Move-On mist. *He makes the Clintons look like amateurs.
Yeah, good point, using a teleprompter is waaaay more serious than
starting a war on false pretenses.


only one with BDS would continue to insist the Iraq was began on
"false pretenses". Before Bush became president,BJClinton also
stated Saddam still had WMD. Foreign leaders all believed he had WMD.


And theere was more than just that reasom for going to war with
Saddam. You folks just didn't listen.


Not many folks understood that the war had to be sold to
the American public because your typical member of the
dumb masses could not comprehend that the war was about
stability. Saddam Hussein was crazy enough to attack
Israel and Israel would not be held back again as in the
Gulf War. Iraq would be a smoldering mass of radioactive
glass if Saddam had attacked them. All the other Islamic
nations would respond by jumping Israel and it would turn
in to another world war. The United States had to become
the bad guy. When BeeHO took office, I can be certain that
he had a case of brown shorts after he was briefed (no pun)
about what is really going on in the world.


And that's what - the 135th reason for why we got into this stupid wastful
idiodic war?

And not one with a basis in fact.


That's for sure. Yet another scenario that makes no sense. I
especially like the part about how after Israel nukes Iraq, the other
Islamic nations would then "jump" Israel. Nobody in the Islamic
world gave much of a rat's ass about Iraq. They sure aren't going
to get in a nuclear war to avenge Iraq. Iraq attacked and invaded
Kuwait. Every Arab country around saw Saddam for what he was,
condemed what he did, and figured if he got away with it, they could
be next.

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On Jun 11, 1:23*pm, stan wrote:
On Jun 10, 9:12*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:

Well Jim even the MOST patriotic American would have to agree the last
8 years were the most disastrous for the USA in history!


I love it when people start off with a totally absurd statement that
totally discredits them. Either you have a total lack of knowledge
of US history, which I think is likely, or you are out of your mind.
It's funny how the libs who think they know so much, really are quite
clueless and lack any reasoned judgement. Long on emotion and short
on facts.






Two unresolved and unnecessary wars, no WMDs, erosion of civil rights
all over the place, torture, wire-tapping, illegal detention etc.

By the way got your compulsory passport to leave the country and
return???? There was time when Americans didn't need that; but as a
result of a 'Fortress America' mentality; the rise of protectionism
and isolationism that imposes restrictions on other nations, means
that US citizens now have to carry passports and obtain visas; like
everybody else!

Culmination being a major economic down turn; a credit crisis due to
poor financial controls of the US banking lending and insurance
system, and finally the US auto industry fiasco. (Always said that if
GM had made Toyotas under licence there never would have been a gas
price crisis or auto-sales down turn.)

So; with old US system in crisis, other countries, many with much more
social kindly government-run Employment and Health systems recovering
quite nicely and more quickly, there are apparently STILL people who
can't see follies of the government policies of the recent past.
Running a country with honesty and good legal controls/laws isn't
Communism!

The freedom to do what YOU want in everything is ANARCHY. Gunmen in
the streets, not paying taxes, civil law disobedience, etc. is not
democracy. Neither is an attitude of "I don't agree with that; lets'
nuke it!".

The era of USA being a great country has, unfortunately, greatly
diminished since the days of WWII, the Marshall Plan and its
leadership during the Cold War. There are a lot more economic players
now; with sufficient well educated populations to be the equal of
Europe, the USA, and that's not not only China, India etc.

People can throw around labels; 'Scare words' *such as 'Commie' (as in
the McCarthy era. And he was a nut-case!) or Socialist, without really
understanding what they mean! There are other forms of society which
are also democratic and elected by the people, that work just as well,
or in some cases better than the USA model, for those particular
countries.

Broaden up, be positive and take pride in *what your country and other
people of the world are trying to achieve. There will aways be the
naysayers/negatives let's not join therm!

Good luck.


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The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
That village in Kenya is still one idiot short
Watch it, Kenyans are great folks, we have a lot of them
around here and you couldn't have a better neighbor.


The difference is they're all here because they're not all there.



I'm going to the clinic today and the therapist who
will be changing the pressure bandage on my leg is
a wonderful gal from Kenya. All of the *REAL*
Africans I've met were wonderful people. When I tell
someone that there are a lot of Africans in Birmingham,
I get funny looks.


Yep. Here's a test you can pull on them: "What is your best guess of the
percentage of the London population being African-American?"

(Make your guess, then scroll down)







Virtually zero. Blacks in London would properly be called "African-Anglos."

My internist is of Vietnamese heritage. A couple of years ago, I asked him
if he was Catholic - many Vietnamese are Catholic and, had he answered in
the affirmative, I was going to congratulate him on the elevation of a new
Pontiff.

He said: "To tell the truth, it depends on the girl I'm dating at the time."

The man had been Americanized.


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The Daring Dufas wrote:

I AM concerned for their health. I think Adrenaline is good for
them! And for me. Laughter is good for the digestion and watching
someone itch to death is hilarious.

Make some popcorn and watch what happens over the following
statement. In 1978 thru 1981 it was estimated that there were 40,000
abortions
performed in the state of Florida. Those 40,000 non-births would
have been voting in their first election in 2000 had they not been
aborted. Since children generally follow the political inclinations of
their
parents, and a woman who would have an abortion is more likely to be
of a liberal persuasion than otherwise, Al Gore did not receive up
to 40,000 or so votes he would have otherwise gotten had abortion
been unlawful. Gore lost by 585 votes.

For those who are interested, this is called "The Roe Effect."



I've tried to explain that concept to anti-abortion
conservatives. The good conservative woman is not
going to get an abortion and probably not get pregnant
out of wedlock anyway. The Liberal fornicator is going
to seek an abortion because she doesn't want to deal
with the consequences of her behavior. Republicans
should not oppose abortions for Democrats. It's simple,
out-breed them and soon be the majority party. It's
hard to get people to understand that if you give the
government the power to force you to have a child, you
automatically give the government the power to tell you
that you can't have a child. Communist China is that way
now.


Yep. There are many good reasons on both sides of the abortion, put forth by
well-meaning people of different persuasions. I, moreover, don't have a dog
in the fight (being male). On balance, though, I probably come down on the
side of "choice" just because it eventually diminishes the number of
liberals.

Likewise on gay marriage. Either homosexuality is genetic or learned. If the
tendency is genetic, gay marriage will thwart the propagation of the gene.
If homosexuality turns out to be environmentally caused, well, we can take
solace in the fact that there are more women left for the rest of us.


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On Jun 11, 5:08*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 11, 2:32*pm, wrote:





On Jun 11, 12:19*pm, RicodJour wrote:


On Jun 11, 11:36*am, wrote:


On Jun 11, 9:48*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:12*am, wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:09*am, RicodJour wrote:


You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. *I don't mean
to be harsh, but you shouldn't have had kids if you regret bringing
them into the _this_ world. *The world doesn't change. *There are
wars, famine, etc., etc. *This is as it has always been, and there's
no reason to believe it will change in any time frame that you can
imagine. *This is neither a good thing, nor a bad thing - it just is.


I'll make some assumptions. *Your kid has a roof over his head, food
on the table, is in reasonable health and has parents that care. *With
that in mind, who gives a rat's ass about the politics?


Maybe you should ask the Germans what happens when you take that
attitude. I seem to recall a war that cost 50mil+ lives not too long
ago. *There are countless other examples I could cite, but what's the
point? *It's incredible anyone could make such a stupid statement, but
it does show where we are headed.


Oh, maybe I misunderstood you. *Are you saying that Obama is Hitler,
or are you saying that the US is recovering from losing a war, just
ended some of the highest inflation the world has ever known, and the
people are used to taking orders so will just follow blithely into the
breach?


I didn't say or imply any of that.


Then why are you bringing up Nazi Germany?


Because, one more time, the attitude in Germany was exactly yours.
As long as I have food, a roof over my head and Hitler makes the
trains run on time, then I don't give a rat's ass about politics lead
to Nazi Germany. * *So Hitler gets more power, more control, who gives
a rat's ass, it's just politics, it doesn't matter.


Again with the Nazi Germany. *From your replies it is clear you don't
have the foggiest idea of my exact attitude.



No, you're right, I'm not a mind reader. All I can go by is what you
post:

"I'll make some assumptions. Your kid has a roof over his head, food
on the table, is in reasonable health and has parents that care.
With that in mind, who gives a rat's ass about the politics? "

And that is very clear. It's actually quite shocking that an
American, who should know the value of freedom, the prices brave men
have paid for it, could make such a statement. Do you think the
founding fathers and revolutionary war troops had that attitude? If
they did, we'd still be part of the UK. It was there decision to be
not only aware of, but involved in politics that made this country.




My statement above was addressed to a father who seemed to be saying
that he regretted bringing his kid into this world.


You know, you should pay more attention to what he actually said. He
never said he regretted bringing his kid into the world. Now, you're
making things up.


...this political
and economic world. *Do you feel that this our current situation is so
hopeless?


What is being "discussed" here is politics.


Yes, and you said


"Your kid has a roof over his head, food on the table, is in
reasonable health and has parents that care. *With that in mind, who
gives a rat's ass about the politics?"


Which is incredibly naive. * My obvious point is, ignore politics and
you could wind up like Nazi Germany. * Germany prospered under
Hitler's rule, people had better roofs, more food on the table, and
the trains ran on time. * *So, people didn't much care about his
politics, the morality of it, and look where it got them and the
world.


And I could give you countless other examples where that happened and
people lost their freedom and horrible effects resulted because they
didn't give a rat's ass about politics.


When I refer to 'politics' I am referring to the whole conservative/
liberal, democrat/republican, you're an idiot/no you are mentality
that is rampant. *I am sorry if you read into that that I don't care
about the problems we are facing. *I do - of course.


Those "problems" are directly related to and a part of politics.
That's the mechanism through which national policy is set.


What I will not do is to pass on a pessimistic outlook to the next
generation and just be another bitter old fogey bitching about how the
world was better when they were a kid.


What you see as ****imistic, I and *I think Windcrest see as
reality. * Perhaps you don't understand the economic significance of
what is happening. * The national debt is now $11 trillion. * Assuming
a family size of 4, that amounts to $125,000 in debt per family.
It's 75% of GDP. * *Obama's budgets propose adding $10 trillon to it
over the next decade, just about doubling it. * That will take it to
levels higher relative to GDP than it was at the end of WWII. *It will
be $250K per family, more than most peoples mortgages.


****imistic...? *I like it! *It's not a word, but I like it anyway.
It is appropriate even given its non-word status. *That is how a lot
of people moaning come across - they're pessimistic and ****ing about
it.

And back at the end of WWII, the US was the super economy in the
world. * We had cheap energy, manufactured everything, and could
easily support that debt load on our economy. * * Saddle the economy
with it today, and it's not clear how we will ever be able to handle
it. *And that doesn't factor in some other REAL national emergency,
that might add trillions more, like a war with North Korea. * So,
excuse me if I think our children should know it. * *But if you go
around telling them everything is rosey, don't give a rat's ass about
politics, just be happy, I think it's absolutely the WRONG thing to
do. *But it is what Obama would like you to do.


Sigh. *You're not reading what I wrote, you're not even reading
between the lines, you're just making stuff up.



Exactly what in the above am I alleged to have made up?





http://costofwar.com/*I don't see that that money was wisely invested
in our future, do you?


I say the money spent on the war in Afghanistan was absolutely the
correct thing to do. *That's $190Bil. *The money spent in Iraq,
$677Bil, was not wisely spent. * *Add them together, and Obama is
going to run deficts that large or bigger EACH YEAR for the next
decade. * That is what some of us are speaking out against.


Which part of the war in Afghanistan? *The part where we backed the
current terrorists while they were fighting the Russians, provided
them with money, arms and training, or the current part?


Look, YOU posted the link to the total for those 2 wars. I answered
your question honestly and pointed out that the TOTAL money spent on
both of those wars which covered 8 years, is LESS than the additional
DEBT that Obama proposes to add EVERY year for the next decade.
Rather than address the economics, which is what Windcrest's whole
post was about, when you said everyone should just ignore politics,
you now want to take the discussion off into some other direction,
which is irrelevant to what Windcrest posted. So, obviously, either
you fail to grasp the essence of Windcrest's case, or you do and won't
address it.

For the record, we did NOT back the current terrorists in
Afghanistan. We backed the mujahideen, which were a collection of
numerous resistance groups and tribes fighting to get the Soviets, who
had occupied Afghanistan, out. They were targeting the Soviet
military, not indiscriminantly killing women and children with
roadside car or suicide bombings. Those fighters came from many
Islamic countries and after the Soviets withdrew, they wound up
fighting among themselves for control of Afghanistan, with the Taliban
ultimately winning. Later on, some elements of those former
fighters went on to become Al_Qaeda terrorists.

So, what is your point?



The US is not the world's cop, and shouldn't go bankrupt trying to
prove it "still has it".


Again, here you are trying to paint a picture that it's military
spending that is going to bankrupt the USA. We made it through the
Korean War, Vietnam, Bosnia, Iraq (x2) and Afghanistan with our
national debt either declining substantially, or only rising
modestly. Yet you choose to focus on military spending as if it is
what has the potential to bankrupt the US. At the same time, Obama's
unprecedented DOMESTIC spending is what is going to take the national
debt from $11 trill to $20 trill in the next decade. Look at budgets
historically as a percentage of GDP and it's clear that what is out of
control has nothing to do with defense spending. And that, you
refuse to even acknowledge or discuss.





It doesn't matter which party someone is affiliated with, if you're
****ing money away, you're ****ing money away.


That's true. * I spoke out against the spending over the last 8 years
too, including when Republican controlled the Congress. * *But what
you fail to grasp is that it is now being taken to a level way beyond
what anyone thought remotely possible and if it goes unchecked, it can
bankrupt the country, turning the US into the likes of some joke of a
third world country, unable to repay loans.


Why leads you to believe I have a different view? *


The fact that you said this:

"I'll make some assumptions. Your kid has a roof over his head, food
on the table, is in reasonable health and has parents that care.
With that in mind, who gives a rat's ass about the politics? "




We never raised the
issue, so you're just making stuff up. *Maybe you should stop...?


What exactly have I made up?





I see problems, I look for solutions. *I don't care where the
solutions come from. *I am not in control of where the problems come
from (usually), and I am also not in control of how the solutions are
approached. *The best I can do is to try to maintain a pleasant
demeanor and make have rational, calm discussions about what needs to
be done with as many people as will listen.


The key thing should, of course, be for people to seek common ground
and seek a solution.
All the other stuff is chest thumping and finger pointing and
interests me not in the least.


Sure, utopia would be nice too.


Indeed. *Just because it was "impossible" to put a man on the moon
didn't mean it could never be done. *This is where hope and dreams
come in. *You don't create hope and dreams by instilling terror about
bogeymen and financial death and destruction.



No one is instilling terror. Windcrest's post was very realistic and
here 6 posts later, you won't discuss the truth behind his basic
premise and facts. Again, perhaps because you don't understand basic
economics and finance, you don't see the true threat here. Would
you not tell your children that they shouldn't borrow excessively and
what can happen if they do? Many parents have shared their
experiences through life, both good and bad. That's how children
learn and hopefully can avoid the pitfalls in life. Or would you tell
your children the future is rosey, feel free to keep borrowing ever
more with no relation to your ability to pay it back and as long as
they have food and a roof, to not give a rat's ass?







I don't expect anyone to change their opinion based on what I say, I
just want them to listen and think about it. *I don't see much
listening and thinking going on. *I see people using the wonders of
the Internet to easily grab information that supports their pre-
conceived ideas. *That happens on all sides. *It only obfuscates. *I
don't want to feed into the distractions. *Sorry about that!


I don't see how getting information that supports your viewpoint
obfuscates or is a distraction. * If you leave out facts, you're left
with emotion. * And that is what the country is running on today. * A
classic, of which Goebles would be proud, is Obama's constant harping
of "We've created or saved XXX thousands of jobs." *What total
rubbish. *Economists have historically measured how many new jobs were
created. * Presidents have crowed about that number, usually before re-
election time. * But this utter nonsense now, 5 months into a term,
about XXX jobs saved? * No economist measures such a thing and you can
just make up any number to fool people you want/


87.3% of statistics are made up.
All numbers lie.


Of course, if that were true, the world would be a very different
place. Sure, you can make up things. Again, your moral relativism
attitude is disturbing, as you can then justify anything. All
numbers don't lie. And when I spot someone trying to pull the wool
over our eyes, I speak out against it, as in the Obama employment
numbers example. I don't **** all over every other statistic that
are valid. Because he's conjured up a total BS number "jobs saved",
doesn't mean we should now suddenly ignore other economic statistics
that have been tracked and legitimately measured for decades.



Isn't it interesting that in the space of one paragraph you went from
contesting my point to supporting it? *I find it fascinating!



Say what?


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The Daring Dufas wrote:
RB wrote:
George Jetson wrote:
"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
Bozo wrote:

On Jun 10, 7:51 pm, Oren wrote:

Will they use a tele-promter?

I wonder what those irrational Bush haters would have said if W. had
relied on one of those things even for events that are expected to be
spontaneous. But the propaganda machine is oiled and tuned and we'll
be lucky to be getting even a remotely reasonable facsimile of the
truth by the end of Barack's first, and God willing, last term.
Everything this guy says is shrouded in the Move-On mist. He makes
the Clintons look like amateurs.

Yeah, good point, using a teleprompter is waaaay more serious than
starting a war on false pretenses.


Somewhere in texas a small village is going to get its idiot back,
God help them.


That village in Kenya is still one idiot short


Watch it, Kenyans are great folks, we have a lot of them
around here and you couldn't have a better neighbor.


No argument there, I've know a few as well.
And all of them proudly acknowledged their country of birth.
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The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
What was the position of the Florida Secretary of State? You know,
the one responsible for elections? A republican?
Yes. The Republican Secretary of State (Kathleen Harris), however,
had zero control over the election process. She had no authority or
responsibility regarding the counting of votes. Her job, vis-a-vis
the election, was to maintain state-wide voter registration lists
and to accept the certified results of the election from the county
canvassing boards.
DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO CONFRONT A LIBERAL WITH FACTS.
It confuses them and causes a marked increase in their
blood pressure and a lot of screaming, cursing and
name calling. Be a compassionate Conservative and show
some concern for their health.


I AM concerned for their health. I think Adrenaline is good for them!
And for me. Laughter is good for the digestion and watching someone
itch to death is hilarious.

Make some popcorn and watch what happens over the following statement.

In 1978 thru 1981 it was estimated that there were 40,000 abortions
performed in the state of Florida. Those 40,000 non-births would have
been voting in their first election in 2000 had they not been aborted.

Since children generally follow the political inclinations of their
parents, and a woman who would have an abortion is more likely to be
of a liberal persuasion than otherwise, Al Gore did not receive up to
40,000 or so votes he would have otherwise gotten had abortion been
unlawful.

Gore lost by 585 votes.

For those who are interested, this is called "The Roe Effect."


I've tried to explain that concept to anti-abortion
conservatives. The good conservative woman is not
going to get an abortion and probably not get pregnant
out of wedlock anyway. The Liberal fornicator is going
to seek an abortion because she doesn't want to deal
with the consequences of her behavior. Republicans
should not oppose abortions for Democrats. It's simple,
out-breed them and soon be the majority party.



Republicans, being ...conservative and responsible sorts, would have a
hard time (no pun intended) out-breeding your average Democrat. Even
conceding the losses to abortion, I bet they could outstrip us.
Wait, let me rephrase that.

Basically, Democrats get abortions, Republicans get vasectomies.
So count me out
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HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I AM concerned for their health. I think Adrenaline is good for
them! And for me. Laughter is good for the digestion and watching
someone itch to death is hilarious.

Make some popcorn and watch what happens over the following
statement. In 1978 thru 1981 it was estimated that there were 40,000
abortions
performed in the state of Florida. Those 40,000 non-births would
have been voting in their first election in 2000 had they not been
aborted. Since children generally follow the political inclinations of
their
parents, and a woman who would have an abortion is more likely to be
of a liberal persuasion than otherwise, Al Gore did not receive up
to 40,000 or so votes he would have otherwise gotten had abortion
been unlawful. Gore lost by 585 votes.

For those who are interested, this is called "The Roe Effect."


I've tried to explain that concept to anti-abortion
conservatives. The good conservative woman is not
going to get an abortion and probably not get pregnant
out of wedlock anyway. The Liberal fornicator is going
to seek an abortion because she doesn't want to deal
with the consequences of her behavior. Republicans
should not oppose abortions for Democrats. It's simple,
out-breed them and soon be the majority party. It's
hard to get people to understand that if you give the
government the power to force you to have a child, you
automatically give the government the power to tell you
that you can't have a child. Communist China is that way
now.


Yep. There are many good reasons on both sides of the abortion, put forth by
well-meaning people of different persuasions. I, moreover, don't have a dog
in the fight (being male). On balance, though, I probably come down on the
side of "choice" just because it eventually diminishes the number of
liberals.

Likewise on gay marriage. Either homosexuality is genetic or learned. If the
tendency is genetic, gay marriage will thwart the propagation of the gene.
If homosexuality turns out to be environmentally caused, well, we can take
solace in the fact that there are more women left for the rest of us.


Well sure, but don't forget the Lesbian factor.
And other middle easterners, for that matter.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

So please, tell us just exactly what we got for our $190 B.

o Greater national security? (no)
o "Terrorism" suppressed/obliterated (no)
o People of the world love us more? (no)
o Afghans love us more? (no)
o Secure energy supplies? * (no)
o Giant steps toward world peace? (no)


We successfully revived the opium trade, which the Taliban had shut down cold.
From a March 2001 New York Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/20/wo...aides-say.html

"The first American narcotics experts to go to Afghanistan under Taliban rule
have concluded that the movement's ban on opium-poppy cultivation appears to
have wiped out the world's largest crop in less than a year, officials said"
today.

-- Doug
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

I've tried to explain that concept to anti-abortion
conservatives. The good conservative woman is not
going to get an abortion and probably not get pregnant
out of wedlock anyway. The Liberal fornicator is going
to seek an abortion because she doesn't want to deal
with the consequences of her behavior.


Do you have any data supporting the idea that liberals have more abortions than
conservatives or are we just spouting speculation? -- Doug
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