Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few
months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were
all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have
now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test), they
hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into the
*output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output, from my
sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked up the
condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup to the
primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary pump to
handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This happened
twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out what was
going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He blamed it
on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of having water
drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a large puddle, I
called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing how the pipes were
running they immediately knew the problem and proceeded to re-route the
condensate line directly into the sump well rather than into an output
line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time running.
However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've had water in
the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have minor
discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall that is
about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The discoloration goes
up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same wall, there has been
mold growing on the baseboard as well as the wall itself. On the side of
that wall that faces the utility room you can see mold on the 2x4 that
runs along the floor that all the wall studs connect into. I've been
treating the finished side of the wall with bleach/water to get rid of
the mold on the baseboard and painted wall but it is not gone yet. THe
carpet was also wet. Luckily the carpet seems to be doing okay. I have
yet to get the mold to stop coming back but I'm working on it. In the
meantime, the water/bleach combo has removed some paint from my
baseboards on two walls so they will need repainted and possibly treated
to ensure the mold doesn't come back.

After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house
used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought it
and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only did
spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers had installed
all new equipment and addressed the major issues with the house.
However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect connection of
the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I remembered the A/C
wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I would have made sure
he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys
were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though
that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them
though until I determine whether they could be held liable for my
mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the same conversation.

What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon

Brandon McCombs wrote:
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few
months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were
all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have
now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test), they
hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into the
*output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output, from my
sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked up the
condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup to the
primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary pump to
handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This happened
twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out what was
going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He blamed it
on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of having water
drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a large puddle, I
called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing how the pipes were
running they immediately knew the problem and proceeded to re-route the
condensate line directly into the sump well rather than into an output
line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time running.
However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've had water in
the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have minor
discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall that is
about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The discoloration goes
up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same wall, there has been
mold growing on the baseboard as well as the wall itself. On the side of
that wall that faces the utility room you can see mold on the 2x4 that
runs along the floor that all the wall studs connect into. I've been
treating the finished side of the wall with bleach/water to get rid of
the mold on the baseboard and painted wall but it is not gone yet. THe
carpet was also wet. Luckily the carpet seems to be doing okay. I have
yet to get the mold to stop coming back but I'm working on it. In the
meantime, the water/bleach combo has removed some paint from my
baseboards on two walls so they will need repainted and possibly treated
to ensure the mold doesn't come back.

After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house
used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought it
and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only did
spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers had installed
all new equipment and addressed the major issues with the house.
However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect connection of
the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I remembered the A/C
wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I would have made sure
he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys
were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though
that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them
though until I determine whether they could be held liable for my
mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the same conversation.

What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon

Have you consulted an attorney? That should be one of the
first things you do now.

TDD

"Brandon McCombs" wrote in message
g.com...
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts regarding
problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few months
before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were all
a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have now
confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test), they
hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into the
*output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output, from my
sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked up the
condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup to the
primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary pump to handle
it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus blocking
it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation would back up
inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This happened twice and I
called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out what was going on (2nd time
caused the circuit board to be fried). He blamed it on the sump pump not
working at all. After the 3rd time of having water drip from places it
shouldn't drip from and forming a large puddle, I called the people who
installed the pump. Upon seeing how the pipes were running they
immediately knew the problem and proceeded to re-route the condensate line
directly into the sump well rather than into an output line. Luckily they
didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time running.
However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've had water in
the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have minor
discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall that is about
6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The discoloration goes up about
2 feet from the baseboard. On that same wall, there has been mold growing
on the baseboard as well as the wall itself. On the side of that wall that
faces the utility room you can see mold on the 2x4 that runs along the
floor that all the wall studs connect into. I've been treating the
finished side of the wall with bleach/water to get rid of the mold on the
baseboard and painted wall but it is not gone yet. THe carpet was also
wet. Luckily the carpet seems to be doing okay. I have yet to get the mold
to stop coming back but I'm working on it. In the meantime, the
water/bleach combo has removed some paint from my baseboards on two walls
so they will need repainted and possibly treated to ensure the mold
doesn't come back.

After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether anyone
is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company liable or
the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased last
year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house used the
same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought it and offered
to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only did spot-checks
when he was here for me because the sellers had installed all new
equipment and addressed the major issues with the house. However, he
missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect connection of the furnace
condensate line to the sump pump. Had I remembered the A/C wasn't here
when he inspected it the first time I would have made sure he inspected
it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys were
here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though that it
was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them though until I
determine whether they could be held liable for my mold/water problems
because I'd bring that up in the same conversation.

What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.


*Move on and get over it. Home inspectors are not qualified to check every
aspect of a home's construction. Some are not qualified period. You would
have been better off calling in the different trades to have a look.

If you owe the HVAC company let them fight for their money. If not then
call it an educational expense. You will never use them again, you will bad
mouth them at every opportunity, and they will never get a recommendation
from you. If it will make you feel better write them a letter telling them
so. Include the bill from the sump pump guy and ask for reimbursement. Say
you want them to pay for mold remediation.

Yes you can find an attorney who will take your money upfront and drag it
out for months or years and in the end you still won't have satisfaction.

On Jun 8, 5:36*pm, Brandon McCombs wrote:
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few
months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were
all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have
now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test), they
hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into the
*output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output, from my
sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked up the
condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup to the
primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary pump to
handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This happened
twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out what was
going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He blamed it
on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of having water
drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a large puddle, I
called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing how the pipes were
running they immediately knew the problem and proceeded to re-route the
condensate line directly into the sump well rather than into an output
line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time running.
However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've had water in
the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have minor
discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall that is
about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The discoloration goes
up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same wall, there has been
mold growing on the baseboard as well as the wall itself. On the side of
that wall that faces the utility room you can see mold on the 2x4 that
runs along the floor that all the wall studs connect into. I've been
treating the finished side of the wall with bleach/water to get rid of
the mold on the baseboard and painted wall but it is not gone yet. THe
carpet was also wet. Luckily the carpet seems to be doing okay. I have
yet to get the mold to stop coming back but I'm working on it. In the
meantime, the water/bleach combo has removed some paint from my
baseboards on two walls so they will need repainted and possibly treated
to ensure the mold doesn't come back.

After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house
used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought it
and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only did
spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers had installed
all new equipment and addressed the major issues with the house.
However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect connection of
the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I remembered the A/C
wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I would have made sure
he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys
were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though
that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them
though until I determine whether they could be held liable for my
mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the same conversation.

What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon

Do you test a new AC in winter? Im no AC pro but I have heard running
the outside compressor below a certain temp can damage it, and it may
be as high as 60f. If it was installled in winter maybe they meant to
come back but forgot, was this mentioned to you? The sump was
careless, but what are you out in damage. Not much. Im my town and I
bet yours a permit is suposed to be pulled for work like this, which
im sure was not. The reality of the benefit of getting permits is not
well understood by most. Getting a permit gets you a free inspection
of your work by a pro to hopefully catch screw ups like these before
you make the final payment. Sure the guy was a hack, but look at it
another way, not getting a permit screwed you. Next job, pull a permit
yourself and get the job inspected. Put in the contract, "final
payment due after it passes inspection." Im just a HO , but most any
job I hire out I can find a fault with. Id say its a learning
experiance for you.

John Grabowski wrote:

"Brandon McCombs" wrote in message
g.com...
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a
few months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were
all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have
now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test),
they hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into
the *output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output,
from my sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked
up the condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup
to the primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary
pump to handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This
happened twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out
what was going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He
blamed it on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of
having water drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a
large puddle, I called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing
how the pipes were running they immediately knew the problem and
proceeded to re-route the condensate line directly into the sump well
rather than into an output line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time
running. However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've
had water in the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have
minor discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall that
is about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The discoloration
goes up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same wall, there has
been mold growing on the baseboard as well as the wall itself. On the
side of that wall that faces the utility room you can see mold on the
2x4 that runs along the floor that all the wall studs connect into.
I've been treating the finished side of the wall with bleach/water to
get rid of the mold on the baseboard and painted wall but it is not
gone yet. THe carpet was also wet. Luckily the carpet seems to be
doing okay. I have yet to get the mold to stop coming back but I'm
working on it. In the meantime, the water/bleach combo has removed
some paint from my baseboards on two walls so they will need repainted
and possibly treated to ensure the mold doesn't come back.

After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house
used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought
it and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only
did spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers had
installed all new equipment and addressed the major issues with the
house. However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect
connection of the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I
remembered the A/C wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I
would have made sure he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys
were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though
that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them
though until I determine whether they could be held liable for my
mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the same conversation.

What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.


*Move on and get over it. Home inspectors are not qualified to check
every aspect of a home's construction. Some are not qualified period.
You would have been better off calling in the different trades to have a
look.

If you owe the HVAC company let them fight for their money. If not then

I was using the guy who had installed the unit and he wasn't charging me
for anything at all yet, especially since the first visit he knew was
due to his guys not properly finishing the job.

call it an educational expense. You will never use them again, you will
bad mouth them at every opportunity, and they will never get a
recommendation from you. If it will make you feel better write them a
letter telling them so. Include the bill from the sump pump guy and ask

The sump pump guy didn't charge me anything either. So far the only
thing I'll be out will be the money it takes to repaint some baseboards
and the wall. It could get as ugly as removing drywall and studs though
and replacing them before I paint. That's assuming I can fix the mold
issue on my own.

for reimbursement. Say you want them to pay for mold remediation.

Yes you can find an attorney who will take your money upfront and drag
it out for months or years and in the end you still won't have
satisfaction.

I don't think the job warrants paying for an attorney. I guess I'll call
the HVAC company and let them know what the problem was and base the
rest of my conversation on what they say. I'm expecting to have to chalk
it up to the woes of home ownership. The people who have been involved
were not of my choosing so it wasn't like I made bad choices. They were
all hired by the sellers of the house to do the work.

As far as the last person's statements regarding testing in the winter,
maybe there are limitations to when you can test an AC unit. Either way
though the guys didn't finish the job (testing the AC would have only
proven that to them) and I wasn't told they would have to come back. I
could have been out much more if the circuit board fried from the
incorrect routing of the condensate line hadn't been covered under warranty.

thanks for all the input.

I find it amazing the number of people who purchase/own a house and don't
know a thing about how it is built nor how it operates and have to hire out
every little thing, and then get stung because the contractor screws up and
the home owner has no clue that he did screw up.

It has been said that one should take a course before marriage and before
having a child, but it appears that many people should take a course before
they own a house. Either that or they should stay renting where they can
call the super or whatever, everytime something needs to get fixed or worked
on.

Brandon McCombs wrote:
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a
few months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were
all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have
now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test),
they hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace)
into the *output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are
output, from my sump pump which are used for varying water depths.
They hooked up the condensate line to the output line that is used as
the backup to the primary one. So when the water got too high for the
primary pump to handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the
water out.
Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This
happened twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out
what was going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He
blamed it on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of
having water drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a
large puddle, I called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing
how the pipes were running they immediately knew the problem and
proceeded to re-route the condensate line directly into the sump well
rather than into an output line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time
running. However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've
had water in the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have
minor discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall
that is about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The
discoloration goes up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same
wall, there has been mold growing on the baseboard as well as the
wall itself. On the side of that wall that faces the utility room you
can see mold on the 2x4 that runs along the floor that all the wall
studs connect into. I've been treating the finished side of the wall
with bleach/water to get rid of the mold on the baseboard and painted
wall but it is not gone yet. THe carpet was also wet. Luckily the
carpet seems to be doing okay. I have yet to get the mold to stop
coming back but I'm working on it. In the meantime, the water/bleach
combo has removed some paint from my baseboards on two walls so they
will need repainted and possibly treated to ensure the mold doesn't
come back.
After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house
used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought
it and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only
did spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers had
installed all new equipment and addressed the major issues with the
house. However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect
connection of the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I
remembered the A/C wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I
would have made sure he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys
were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though
that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them
though until I determine whether they could be held liable for my
mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the same
conversation.
What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon

"Brandon McCombs" wrote in message

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were all
a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have now
confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test), they
hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into the
*output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output, from my
sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked up the
condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup to the
primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary pump to handle
it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus blocking
it and possibly forcing water into the furnace.

You need Judge Judy. What is the monetary damages? An attorney can get
this fixed, but the cure may cost more than the damages. Small claims court
is an option.

I don't trust home inspectors. That said, I don't think many would have
caught this. They would look at the drain line and say "yep, condensate
drain is hooked up, OK" and move on. I'm not sure the HVAC guys actually
understood the sump setup with two pumps, but perhaps they should have
asked.

I'd put together a list of cost, outline the problem, take a few photos, and
them present it to the HVAC guys. They may pay, offer a portion, or tell
you where to go. Then you can decide the next step to take. They may have
liability coverage to handle it all. Don't approach this as a raving
lunatic consumer, but rather as a business person with a problem. Present
the problem, show the solution, request damages.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:36:16 -0400, against all advice, something
compelled Brandon McCombs , to say:

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few
months before I bought a 40 year old house.


I Am Not A Lawyer. But, you bought a building, and if it's
anything like buying a used car, you bought it As Is.

Unless you were denied opportunity to inspect the property before
purchase, and were given Promises & Warrantees, the problems are
yours.



--

Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will
have to ram it down their throats.
- Howard Aiken

EXT wrote:
I find it amazing the number of people who purchase/own a house and
don't know a thing about how it is built nor how it operates and have to
hire out every little thing, and then get stung because the contractor
screws up and the home owner has no clue that he did screw up.

It has been said that one should take a course before marriage and
before having a child, but it appears that many people should take a
course before they own a house. Either that or they should stay renting
where they can call the super or whatever, everytime something needs to
get fixed or worked on.


Interesting concept, we have drivers ed, why not homeowners ed?

TDD

Steve Daniels wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:36:16 -0400, against all advice, something
compelled Brandon McCombs , to say:

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few
months before I bought a 40 year old house.


I Am Not A Lawyer. But, you bought a building, and if it's
anything like buying a used car, you bought it As Is.

Unless you were denied opportunity to inspect the property before
purchase, and were given Promises & Warrantees, the problems are
yours.




I thought about that too Steve but I think that would only be the logic
to use if I were trying to determine whether the sellers are liable or
not. I don't consider them to be liable even though they are the people
who hired these other people. These other people should have known what
they were doing, IMO.

EXT wrote:
I find it amazing the number of people who purchase/own a house and
don't know a thing about how it is built nor how it operates and have to
hire out every little thing, and then get stung because the contractor
screws up and the home owner has no clue that he did screw up.

I find it amazing the number of people who don't read posts at all, or
at least not completely, but yet they respond to them thinking they know
what they are talking about.

If you notice in the beginning of my post, the work I was talking about
was done before I even bought the house and in fact was done by the
sellers of the house and/or by hired specialists at least 3 months
before I bought it. They hired them because they flip houses so they
contract out some of the work. I assume that is because they have a
small crew and can't do everything themselves or maybe they prefer
specialists to do some of the work. I'm not the one who got stung in the
way you think because I didn't hire these people.

If you are referring to the sellers being the people who got stung and
not having a clue that something screwed up then okay but I have a
feeling you are referring to me, albeit incorrectly. As far as being
clueless, Ed even stated that a home inspector may not have noticed the
condensate pipe being incorrectly connected to the sump pump and an
inspector knows a whole lot more than me.

As for knowing how something is built or how it operates, were you born
with all the knowledge you have? Some knowledge you can't acquire until
you are thrown into a situation. I'm a first time home buyer. I'm also
*not* a HVAC person. I have my specialty but it isn't in home repair nor
should it be. It obviously helps if it is though because I could save
myself money. I'm learning as I go. Should there be a home owner's
education course? Maybe. But the fact is there isn't so I'm learning
what I can. I ask questions when the HVAC guy and the pump guys are here
so I can do more things myself. You can belittle me all you want but
considering you have no clue about my particular situation you are
simply talking out your ass for the world to see.

I was given a lawnmower by a co-worker and was told it would need tuning
b/c it hadn't been used for about 5 years. Instead of going out to buy a
new mower (which obviously would have cost more) I instead took the
mower with the full intention of learning how they work and to fix them,
or at least this one, myself. I took the carb apart multiple times and
eventually fixed it by simply cleaning it and learning about how it
works by using the a.h.l.garden newsgroup and various websites. I saved
myself the money of a new mower and of even taking the mower to someone
to fix for me. I wouldn't have learned anything that way. I didn't have
to mow my lawn at my apartment so obviously had no way, or reason, to
learn about them. So again, I think you would do everyone a favor by not
talking about something you know nothing about, unless you are referring
to people in general.

By the way, do you know how to cook your own food, fix your own
car/computer/electronics when they fail, diagnose your own illnesses,
fix your own teeth, and generally never have to rely on someone else for
*anything*? I didn't think so. Maybe you shouldn't attempt insert any
task listed above here without having passed a formal course on the
subject.


It has been said that one should take a course before marriage and
before having a child, but it appears that many people should take a
course before they own a house. Either that or they should stay renting
where they can call the super or whatever, everytime something needs to
get fixed or worked on.

Brandon McCombs wrote:
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a
few months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were
all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have
now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test),
they hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace)
into the *output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are
output, from my sump pump which are used for varying water depths.
They hooked up the condensate line to the output line that is used as
the backup to the primary one. So when the water got too high for the
primary pump to handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the
water out.
Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This
happened twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out
what was going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He
blamed it on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of
having water drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a
large puddle, I called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing
how the pipes were running they immediately knew the problem and
proceeded to re-route the condensate line directly into the sump well
rather than into an output line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time
running. However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've
had water in the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have
minor discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall
that is about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The
discoloration goes up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same
wall, there has been mold growing on the baseboard as well as the
wall itself. On the side of that wall that faces the utility room you
can see mold on the 2x4 that runs along the floor that all the wall
studs connect into. I've been treating the finished side of the wall
with bleach/water to get rid of the mold on the baseboard and painted
wall but it is not gone yet. THe carpet was also wet. Luckily the
carpet seems to be doing okay. I have yet to get the mold to stop
coming back but I'm working on it. In the meantime, the water/bleach
combo has removed some paint from my baseboards on two walls so they
will need repainted and possibly treated to ensure the mold doesn't
come back.
After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house
used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought
it and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only
did spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers had
installed all new equipment and addressed the major issues with the
house. However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect
connection of the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I
remembered the A/C wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I
would have made sure he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys
were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though
that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them
though until I determine whether they could be held liable for my
mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the same
conversation.
What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon

On Jun 9, 12:34*am, Brandon McCombs wrote:
Steve Daniels wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:36:16 -0400, against all advice, something
compelled Brandon McCombs , to say:

* * If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
* * regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few
* * months before I bought a 40 year old house.

I Am Not A Lawyer. *But, you bought a building, and if it's
anything like buying a used car, you bought it As Is.

Unless you were denied opportunity to inspect the property before
purchase, and were given Promises & Warrantees, the problems are
yours.

I thought about that too Steve but I think that would only be the logic
to use if I were trying to determine whether the sellers are liable or
not. I don't consider them to be liable even though they are the people
who hired these other people. These other people should have known what
they were doing, IMO.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



The good news is that you are not out much in directly measurable $$
$. Assuming you can fix the small mold area and water damage
yourself, the only direct costs you have would be the materials
involved. On the other hand, if you need to get a contractor in to
take care of the mold, fix the drywall, paint, etc, then that would be
a more substantial amount of money you would actually be out. I know
you are out a lot in time and aggravation, but courts don't award
money for that in these cases.

If you want to recover that money, I'd document everything, including
taking pictures and getting a written report from the guy who
identified and fixed the incorrect sump pump connection. Send copies
of all the bills to the HVAC company and tell them you expect them to
pay for it. Being a modest sum, it's very possible they will just
pay it. If not, then you have the option of suing in small claims
court, which is perfectly suited to this kind of case. I'd sue all
3 parties: the HVAC company, the sellers, and the home inspector.
As someone else pointed out, it's not clear that you have standing to
sue the HVAC company, but clearly the seller, who had a contract with
them does. Let the judge figure it out. Fixing the guys wagon
could cost you some time and a small filing fee, but it might be worth
it in satisfaction, especially if they tell you to **** off when you
send them a bill for $150.

Also, the home inspector was negligent. They usually have all kinds
of fine print that lets them off the hook. But clearly to me, if this
guy did what you say he did, which is skip essential parts of the
inspection, ie HVAC, simply because they are new, then he bears
responsibility as well. Just because something is new, doesn't mean
it wasn't installed incorrectly or already has a problem.

It's amazing that an HVAC contractor could be so stupid as to connect
a condensate drain to the sump pump discharge line. Especially
since there isn't a need to do so. They could have just let it
discharge into the sump pit. That's what I recently did with one of
mine. It was previously connected to a condensate pump which
failed. I looked around and it was easier and more energy efficient
to just route it into the sump pit. The sump rarely comes on, so the
water just dissipates into the ground.

The time-honored American tradition is to sue them all. Talk to your
lawyer.


--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Well, it would take a judge to determine liability. Take plenty of
pictures and get rid of the mold ASAP. No moisture, no mold.

Talk to your local lawyer.
The HVAC guys had a contract with your seller, not with you.
In some states they owe nothing to a stranger like you.


"Brandon McCombs" wrote in message
g.com...
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts regarding
problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a few months
before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace were all
a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing. I have now
confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test), they
hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace) into the
*output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are output, from my
sump pump which are used for varying water depths. They hooked up the
condensate line to the output line that is used as the backup to the
primary one. So when the water got too high for the primary pump to handle
it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the water out.

Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus blocking
it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation would back up
inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This happened twice and I
called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out what was going on (2nd time
caused the circuit board to be fried). He blamed it on the sump pump not
working at all. After the 3rd time of having water drip from places it
shouldn't drip from and forming a large puddle, I called the people who
installed the pump. Upon seeing how the pipes were running they
immediately knew the problem and proceeded to re-route the condensate line
directly into the sump well rather than into an output line. Luckily they
didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time running.
However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've had water in
the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have minor
discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall that is about
6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The discoloration goes up about
2 feet from the baseboard. On that same wall, there has been mold growing
on the baseboard as well as the wall itself. On the side of that wall that
faces the utility room you can see mold on the 2x4 that runs along the
floor that all the wall studs connect into. I've been treating the
finished side of the wall with bleach/water to get rid of the mold on the
baseboard and painted wall but it is not gone yet. THe carpet was also
wet. Luckily the carpet seems to be doing okay. I have yet to get the mold
to stop coming back but I'm working on it. In the meantime, the
water/bleach combo has removed some paint from my baseboards on two walls
so they will need repainted and possibly treated to ensure the mold
doesn't come back.

After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether anyone
is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company liable or
the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased last
year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my house used the
same inspector and he inspected this house when they bought it and offered
to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but he only did spot-checks
when he was here for me because the sellers had installed all new
equipment and addressed the major issues with the house. However, he
missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect connection of the furnace
condensate line to the sump pump. Had I remembered the A/C wasn't here
when he inspected it the first time I would have made sure he inspected
it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was their
fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump pump guys were
here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC company though that it
was their fault the entire time. I'm not going to call them though until I
determine whether they could be held liable for my mold/water problems
because I'd bring that up in the same conversation.

What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon

I'd suggest the lowest level intensity first. Call the AC
company, and tell them what happened. Be prepared, in case
they ask "what would you like us to do". Your prepared
answer may include mold damage, paint, etc.

Save the attorney for if they try stall and delay tactics.
If you go from zero to attorney, they may be resistant to
feeling forced or pressured.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


After that long winded explanation, the question I have is
whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the
HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?


thanks
Brandon

"EXT" wrote in
anews.com:

I find it amazing the number of people who purchase/own a house and
don't know a thing about how it is built nor how it operates and have
to hire out every little thing, and then get stung because the
contractor screws up and the home owner has no clue that he did screw
up.

I find it amazing

Why? Same can be said for automobiles.


It has been said that one should take a course before marriage and
before having a child, but it appears that many people should take a
course before they own a house. Either that or they should stay
renting where they can call the super or whatever, everytime something
needs to get fixed or worked on.

Brandon McCombs wrote:
Hello,

If you look back over the last week or 2 you'll see I had posts
regarding problems with my new A/C and furnace that were installed a
few months before I bought a 40 year old house.

It turns out that all the problems I had with the A/C and furnace
were all a result of the HVAC guys not knowing what they were doing.
I have now confirmed it rather than it being a hunch.

Besides the fact that the HVAC guys didn't test the A/C when they
installed it (I don't care if it was Fall/Winter, you still test),
they hooked up the condensate line for the A/C (from the furnace)
into the *output* line of my sump pump. I have 2 lines, both are
output, from my sump pump which are used for varying water depths.
They hooked up the condensate line to the output line that is used as
the backup to the primary one. So when the water got too high for the
primary pump to handle it the secondary pump kicked in and pumped the
water out.
Unfortunately water was then pumped into the condensate line thus
blocking it and possibly forcing water into the furnace. Condensation
would back up inside the furnace when I would run the A/C. This
happened twice and I called the HVAC guy twice to try to figure out
what was going on (2nd time caused the circuit board to be fried). He
blamed it on the sump pump not working at all. After the 3rd time of
having water drip from places it shouldn't drip from and forming a
large puddle, I called the people who installed the pump. Upon seeing
how the pipes were running they immediately knew the problem and
proceeded to re-route the condensate line directly into the sump well
rather than into an output line. Luckily they didn't charge me.

Now my A/C works w/o making water go everywhere after some time
running. However since it took a while to diagnose the problem I've
had water in the finished area of my basement at least twice. I have
minor discoloration in the paint on the opposite side of the wall
that is about 6 inches from the one side of the furnace. The
discoloration goes up about 2 feet from the baseboard. On that same
wall, there has been mold growing on the baseboard as well as the
wall itself. On the side of that wall that faces the utility room you
can see mold on the 2x4 that runs along the floor that all the wall
studs connect into. I've been treating the finished side of the wall
with bleach/water to get rid of the mold on the baseboard and painted
wall but it is not gone yet. THe carpet was also wet. Luckily the
carpet seems to be doing okay. I have yet to get the mold to stop
coming back but I'm working on it. In the meantime, the water/bleach
combo has removed some paint from my baseboards on two walls so they
will need repainted and possibly treated to ensure the mold doesn't
come back.
After that long winded explanation, the question I have is whether
anyone is liable for the water and mold problems? Is the HVAC company
liable or the home inspector or no one?

The home inspector is someone I had inspect a home I almost purchased
last year but after his report I passed on it. The sellers of my
house used the same inspector and he inspected this house when they
bought it and offered to come back for me at no charge. I agreed but
he only did spot-checks when he was here for me because the sellers
had installed all new equipment and addressed the major issues with
the house. However, he missed the A/C problem and also the incorrect
connection of the furnace condensate line to the sump pump. Had I
remembered the A/C wasn't here when he inspected it the first time I
would have made sure he inspected it.

I have yet to call the HVAC company to let them know that it was
their fault for all my problems. It was only Friday that the sump
pump guys were here to fix everything. I'm dying to tell the HVAC
company though that it was their fault the entire time. I'm not going
to call them though until I determine whether they could be held
liable for my mold/water problems because I'd bring that up in the
same conversation.
What do you guys think? Sorry for any extraneous information.

thanks
Brandon