cshenk wrote:
"cshenk" wrote

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said she'd
get all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get) and bring
a whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I like her
ethics!

Follow-up. Don went over on one of the small ones today about noon because
it needed to be measured. Cracked doorbell. He pulled it out, measured
bolt width, and showed her exactly what to get. Since she needed to make a
quick run anyway to a grocery (next to the big box), she took him and they
got one that fits the old holes perfectly. He had it on in 5 mins and
showed her how to do that.

I know these simple things are easy for *us* here, but due to her upbringing
and her age (she's 19 on her own for the first time with husband deployed)
there many things she's just not done 'yet'.

Chuckle. So you have picked up a step-daughter for the next year.
Shame her mom and dad didn't teach her any basic household repairs
growing up. Sadly, even today, that is usually considered a 'guy' thing.
On my occasional visits back home, my mother and little sisters always
had a list of stuff to fix. I tried to teach my little sisters a few
basics, and I think a little of it actually did stick.

--
aem sends...

cshenk wrote:
"cshenk" wrote

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said she'd
get all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get) and bring
a whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I like her
ethics!

Follow-up. Don went over on one of the small ones today about noon because
it needed to be measured. Cracked doorbell. He pulled it out, measured
bolt width, and showed her exactly what to get. Since she needed to make a
quick run anyway to a grocery (next to the big box), she took him and they
got one that fits the old holes perfectly. He had it on in 5 mins and
showed her how to do that.

I know these simple things are easy for *us* here, but due to her upbringing
and her age (she's 19 on her own for the first time with husband deployed)
there many things she's just not done 'yet'.

Trade totally even BTW as Don needed a box of brads, some sandpaper and some
A1 for a marinade so the ride made it a perfect match.

Good thing it happened too as he noted the back seat driver side seatbelt
had a worn edge and shouldn't be used to put her kid's carrier or anyone in.
He only noted it because in Sasebo he used to check for such at his
auto-mechanic job and it was habit. The rip was not obvious to the eyes
being just under seat level but the belt was 50% severed somehow? It's also
an easy fix so he put the kid on the back passenger side which was fine and
told her what to get and to call him to replace it when she has the part
(Autoparts 2 miles away but other direction and no rush as other side is
fine).



I think I'd like your neighborhood. Not that mine is bad, mind you, but
seems like most places I've lived people either keep to themselves or
worse, go the opposite way and are way too nebby and you end up having
to push them away...

current neighborhood is friendly but kind of "keep to yourself" ish but
then again, I'm rarely home/outside during daylight, save for weekend
days when a) it's not raining and b) I'm not off working on the
Perpetual Project Car (need to bring it home one of these days...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I don't think the City of Rochester Firedepartment is
freelance, unprofessional, unsupported, or untrained.

You write like a socialist. Based on the assumption that the
Fed has to "run" everything. I reject you, and your view of
the world.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...

The absolute last thing you need in these situations
are a bunch
of untrained, more importantly unsupported, groups running
around. All

aemeijers wrote:
cshenk wrote:
"cshenk" wrote

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said
she'd get all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get)
and bring a whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I
like her ethics!

Follow-up. Don went over on one of the small ones today about noon
because it needed to be measured. Cracked doorbell. He pulled it
out, measured bolt width, and showed her exactly what to get. Since
she needed to make a quick run anyway to a grocery (next to the big
box), she took him and they got one that fits the old holes
perfectly. He had it on in 5 mins and showed her how to do that.

I know these simple things are easy for *us* here, but due to her
upbringing and her age (she's 19 on her own for the first time with
husband deployed) there many things she's just not done 'yet'.

Chuckle. So you have picked up a step-daughter for the next year. Shame
her mom and dad didn't teach her any basic household repairs growing
up. Sadly, even today, that is usually considered a 'guy' thing. On my
occasional visits back home, my mother and little sisters always had a
list of stuff to fix. I tried to teach my little sisters a few basics,
and I think a little of it actually did stick.

--
aem sends...

My dad would cuss the first time a screwdriver slipped off the screw,
throw the tool and be done with it. My mom built her own kitchen
cabinets, will millwork shop cutting wood for her. Put them up herself.
I was force-fed "Walt's Workshop" when I was a kid ... grrrr. Didn't
like it then, but love TOH, Fine Woodworking and just about anything I
don't know how to do. My hubby and I have had a lot of discussions
about brain vs. brawn - he has a lot more muscle, but I have to engineer
the heavy stuff (that I do when he isn't around because he wouldn't want
it done )

I was fascinated in grade school by the guys who washed windows of our
school, standing on the outside of the window-sill...seemed pretty close
to Superman stuff at the time because the windows were about 10' tall )

"aemeijers" wrote
cshenk wrote:

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said she'd
get all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get) and
bring a whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I like
her ethics!

Grin, note she at least got good parental training in this!
(snips)

Chuckle. So you have picked up a step-daughter for the next year.

Hehehe another 3 months but she seems a keeper sort of personality. Very
sweet 'kid' from my age aspect.

Shame her mom and dad didn't teach her any basic household repairs
growing up. Sadly, even today, that is usually considered a 'guy' thing.
On my occasional visits back home, my mother and little sisters always had
a list of stuff to fix. I tried to teach my little sisters a few basics,
and I think a little of it actually did stick.

I don't really know her story other than some sketchy details (note, her
name is not listed deliberately). Middle income big city apartment type,
was delighted to live in first actual single dwelling house. Got the
impression it was 'call the apartment manager' all her life? She may have
been in places where 'self repair' was not allowed.

She strikes me as bright and willing to learn but with minimal skills as of
yet to find out 'how to do this'. Her emails make it clear she wants to
learn and her actions show she's no 'leech'. In fact, she just emailed an
offer to cut the grass for one of our more elderly (fixed income) folks if
they will watch the baby while she does it and after help show her how to
cut cork-wood to replace the stained contact paper in her cabinets.

It's a simple thing to *us* but they will have fun showing her how to
measure the pieces and not have to cut the yard that week for it. (She has
some oddly angled cabinets or wouldnt even ask that one as she's not *that*
bad).

Either way, I'm enjoying the exchanges in email as she enters our little
corner of the world.

"Nate Nagel" wrote
cshenk wrote:

I think I'd like your neighborhood. Not that mine is bad, mind you, but
seems like most places I've lived people either keep to themselves or
worse, go the opposite way and are way too nebby and you end up having to
push them away...

Heheh we are a mix and match. About 1/2 want to play but we don't show up at
12pm to lunch each day!

We went 'current' with email and a little group and all are told to invite
new folks if they want in. It's not a listserv but a remember to hit 'reply
to all' sort of thing.

We setup the little picnics and such from email. 2-3 times a month in
APR-OCT timeframe. Pretty much 'it's at the following house (almost always
mine) and whatcha wanna bring this time if you want to come?

So, every 2-3 weeks we gather for a few hours and swap stories and food.
Cheap food I might add since we don't have porterhouse steak on the offing
when we all do this that often. Decent hotdogs and burgers or chicken tend
to be the norm.

I got a picnic table in the yard and one of the bigger ones (10ft) inside
the screened porch plus extra chairs so we tend to gather here. (44 ft x
13ft screened area). Result is I can host easier than most so we normally
do it here now that I am back again from Japan.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I don't think the City of Rochester Firedepartment is
freelance, unprofessional, unsupported, or untrained.

You write like a socialist. Based on the assumption that the
Fed has to "run" everything. I reject you, and your view of
the world.


Yes, FEMA and the others (state and local) made a lot a screwups during
Katrina/Rita recovery. But the concept of blocking freelance efforts in
the theater of operations is valid. Did the City Of Rochester FD
volunteers have the logistics to support themselves while they were in
the area (food, water, place to sleep, etc?) Disaster recovery is almost
like a war- for every guy at the front, you have 2-3 keeping the supply
chain going. Were some qualified and equipped rescue crews kept out?
Probably. Were some well-meaning but ill-equipped crews and individuals
kept out of harm's way (and out from underfoot)? Definitely. When you
are making things up as you go, you may not have the resources to vet
every volunteer. Red Cross has long used the 'go team' concept of
pre-screened volunteers, as does whatever group it is that steers the
urban search and rescue specialists. Those people get through police
lines with no problems. Out west, the various localities and agencies
have similar arrangements for firefighters on major forest fires, and
most power companies have similar arrangements for line crews. Wanna
volunteer? Wonderful, but do it BEFORE the disaster happens, and get
yourself put on whatever list will get used when it happens.

In last year's Tennessee ice storms, people hollered at the governor for
not calling the feds in fast enough. Guess what? He was too damn busy
doing his job dealing with the emergency using state resources, calling
out the Guard on HIS authority, drawing supplies from various sources,
etc. All in all, a much better response to the situation than Louisiana had.

Same thing about supply donations- semis of old blankets/clothes and
loose cans of food don't do much good, and can suck up resources to sort
and distribute. They mainly give a warm fuzzy feeling to the donees.
Much better to give cash, so Red Cross or whoever can get semi-loads of
brand-new goods of known quality dropped-shipped to aid locations, ready
to pass out straight off the truck.

Standard disclaimer- Yeah, I had a dog in this fight. I own a house on
the edge of the Rita damage zone. Thankfully, only superficial damage to
the house, and none to my relative living there. And he did have to
sneak back in on a country two-laner to get through the perimeter, a day
or two before the mandatory evac was lifted. Told the weekend warrior it
was just a recon trip, and the guy 'forgot' to log him in the book. But
with a generator and plenty of food, gas, and water, he was in fine
shape till the stores and gas stations opened back up 4-5 days later.

--
aem sends...

Something called a "patent". Makes it profitable to do all
the expensive research. A very good idea, actually.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
m...

For certain critical needs, there is often no choice
(pharm., medical
or surgical devices)

I sure can use protection from having my money confiscated
out of every pay check. I also don't enjoy being forced
(under threat of imprisonment) to collect money for the
government as part of my business.

You really think government is the only answer to that list
of problems you cite? Man, you're a good subject of the
government. Did you ever know freedom?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
m...

I am in much greater need of protection FROM GOVERNMENT
than
I am protection from corporations.

Nice to think so, but what about:
drugs causing birth defects or disease
restaurants with dirt and vermin
unfunded pensions
job discrimination
no pay for overtime
exposure to toxic or carcinogenic stuff at work, school
hazardous waste in yer water supply
ddt in your food or water
someone with aids donates blood
your local hospital is scamming you, your insurance company
and govt. (I
worked for such a corp.)
organ donors from unregulated sources (they sell 'em in
Asia)
mercury in your fish

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

I don't think the City of Rochester Firedepartment is
freelance, unprofessional, unsupported, or untrained.

If they weren't part of the COORDINATED response, then they were very
much.


You write like a socialist. Based on the assumption that the
Fed has to "run" everything. I reject you, and your view of
the world.

Actually I don't think the Feds should run things. I think the locals
should run things and that FEMA should stick with its original role of
helping bring additional resources from outside when the local get
overwhelmed.

--
The inevitable Godwinization of Usenet threads is a principle
as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.

In article
,
aemeijers wrote:


Same thing about supply donations- semis of old blankets/clothes and
loose cans of food don't do much good, and can suck up resources to sort
and distribute. They mainly give a warm fuzzy feeling to the donees.
Much better to give cash, so Red Cross or whoever can get semi-loads of
brand-new goods of known quality dropped-shipped to aid locations, ready
to pass out straight off the truck.

One of the earlier FL hurricanes (maybe Andrew??) they ended up
spending almost as much to toss out useless donation as they did to
clean up one of the harder hit areas. My favorite freelance from one of
the tornadoes I worked was the well meaning group who showed up with a
truckload of canned goods, but with no way to open said cans.

--
The inevitable Godwinization of Usenet threads is a principle
as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.

On 4 Jun 2009 16:42:06 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

Ryan P wrote in
:

On 6/4/2009 7:28 AM, dgk wrote:

Our founding fathers were so afraid of the power of corporations that
they put very strong limits on them. Remember, they were on the
receiving end of the power of the first corporations. Essentially,
corporations could only exist for a single purpose, for a specific
period of time, and had to act in the public interest. Then they were
dissolved. Check out
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corp.../history_corpo
rations_us.html for details.

Interesting spin... However, the founding fathers were terrified of
government, which is why they developed the checks and balances
system, and placed strict limitations on what each branch of
government could or could not do. Hell, they even set up the first
system of government so that the Federal branch had virtually no power
over the individual states... something I think we should move back
towards a bit. What's good for people in California is not
necessarily good for people in Wisconsin.

The American Revolution occurred because King George (government)
treated the colonies solely as a revenue source for Britain. This is
how the US government is treating its citizens today.

If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you would
certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what the US
government has become... a nanny state.


Heh,WHAT "strong limits" did the -Founding Fathers- put on corporations?

In what document?


Did you look?

Jim Yanik wrote:

yes,they are.
They don't pay US taxes on their salaries,nor contribute to SS,they
don't spend their salaries in the US,they don't vote here and they
don't live here.
WE get no benefit from them constructing autos in Canada,or Mexico.


Sure we do get benefits:
1. Cheaper cars, and/or
2. Greater profit for American stockholders, and
3. If Canadians or Mexicans are employed locally, they won't try to sneak
over here, and
4. Their salaries are spent on American products or services we can provide
more cheaply than their domestic companies.

Everybody wins when countries do what they do best. To illustrate how silly
this "buy American" mantra is, consider a small town where the only business
in the town makes breakfast cereal. Would it make sense to urge the
townspeople to buy their copy machines from the Post Toastie plant?

"Ryan P" wrote:
DDT, for example... Was merely victimized by the environmentalist
organizations. Its not anywhere near as harmful as people believe. In
fact, the banning of DDT has led to a resurgence of malaria and other
pests (such as bed bugs)

Nope. DDT was banned because it was effective. As a result, millions of
Africans didn't die from malaria, but instead died due to starvation,
dysentary, and a host of other ailments which plague
unsustainable/uncivilizable humanoid populations.

The WHO determined that it was more merciful to let nature take care of the
problem in the first place.

Jon

On Jun 5, 12:34*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Nope. *DDT was banned because it was effective. *As a result, millions of
Africans didn't die from malaria, but instead died due to starvation,
dysentary, and a host of other ailments which plague
unsustainable/uncivilizable humanoid populations.

The WHO determined that it was more merciful to let nature take care of the
problem in the first place.

You are one strange man.

R

On Jun 5, 1:25*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Corporations - and citizens - rely on voluntary contracts. But there must be
SOME enforcement mechanism. The only businesses that have the wherewithal to
enforce these contracts themselves are Mafia-related. To the extent these
contracts need enforcement, governments were created. Therefore, governments
exist to SERVE corporations (and business), not to suppress them.

Governments or every sort were around long before modern corporations
came into existence, and corporations (or similar entities that
conducted business and had legal rights) have been around since
antiquity as well.

It's not a "which came first - the chicken or the egg?" thing. It's
more like the two forms grew and overlapped and became concerned in
each others' affairs.

In, I think, the late 1300's, when merchants began trading extensively,
piracy sprang up. A group of merchants in England equipped some ships with
weapons to deal with the pirates BUT they gave these ships to the crown!
Thus begun the British Navy.

Pirates have been around since people took to boats.
I mean you are only off by a few thousand years, minimum, and stealing
predates recorded history as does travel by boat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates#Ancient_origins

I haven't bothered reading most of this thread, but I hope your
'facts' are more thoroughly researched. An opinion based on bad facts
is almost always a bad opinion.

R

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:


Corporations - and citizens - rely on voluntary contracts. But there must be
SOME enforcement mechanism. The only businesses that have the wherewithal to
enforce these contracts themselves are Mafia-related. To the extent these
contracts need enforcement, governments were created. Therefore, governments
exist to SERVE corporations (and business), not to suppress them.


I view government in this case more of a referee. They aren't there to
serve either side, but just to make sure both sides play by the rules
and to arbite the occassional dust-up.



--
The inevitable Godwinization of Usenet threads is a principle
as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.

On Jun 5, 2:15*pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:

* I view government in this case more of a referee. They aren't there to
serve either side, but just to make sure both sides play by the rules
and to arbite the occassional dust-up.


That should be tattooed on every politician's head, in reverse, so
they'd read it when they got up each day and went into the bathroom.

R

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:


Corporations - and citizens - rely on voluntary contracts. But there
must be SOME enforcement mechanism. The only businesses that have
the wherewithal to enforce these contracts themselves are
Mafia-related. To the extent these contracts need enforcement,
governments were created. Therefore, governments exist to SERVE
corporations (and business), not to suppress them.


I view government in this case more of a referee. They aren't there
to serve either side, but just to make sure both sides play by the
rules and to arbite the occassional dust-up.

Exactly my point. A neat book on the subject is "Systems of Belief" in which
the author contrasted the "Commercial" mindset vs. the "Guardian" mindset.
The two operate way differently and we really have to beware applying the
techniques of one to the provinces of the other.

For example, bonuses, commissions, and quotas do not work well in government
(such as in traffic enforcement), or, more recently, the president's plan to
implement a "wage czar" to regulate executive pay. Likewise, secrecy,
deceit, and distrust don't work well in business.

Possibly the worst thing one can do is believe expertise in one arena
translates to the other. That is, don't EVER vote for someone who touts his
success in business as a qualifying factor for elective office.

As long as business supplies what customers want, there is
no need for "enforcement mechanism". Go to a flea market
sometime. You'll see a good example of suppliers providing
what customers want. Works nicely.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Corporations - and citizens - rely on voluntary contracts.
But there must be
SOME enforcement mechanism.

Would be nice if we could get back that point.
Unfortunately, in the US, the referee has taken too much
power on himself, and has too much stake in who wins.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...


I view government in this case more of a referee. They
aren't there to
serve either side, but just to make sure both sides play by
the rules
and to arbite the occassional dust-up.



--
The inevitable Godwinization of Usenet threads is a
principle
as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every
action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.

HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
yes,they are.
They don't pay US taxes on their salaries,nor contribute to SS,they
don't spend their salaries in the US,they don't vote here and they
don't live here.
WE get no benefit from them constructing autos in Canada,or Mexico.


Sure we do get benefits:
1. Cheaper cars, and/or
2. Greater profit for American stockholders, and
3. If Canadians or Mexicans are employed locally, they won't try to sneak
over here, and
4. Their salaries are spent on American products or services we can provide
more cheaply than their domestic companies.

Everybody wins when countries do what they do best. To illustrate how silly
this "buy American" mantra is, consider a small town where the only business
in the town makes breakfast cereal. Would it make sense to urge the
townspeople to buy their copy machines from the Post Toastie plant?


Hey! I live in that town!
--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote in
:

HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
yes,they are.
They don't pay US taxes on their salaries,nor contribute to SS,they
don't spend their salaries in the US,they don't vote here and they
don't live here.
WE get no benefit from them constructing autos in Canada,or Mexico.


Sure we do get benefits:
1. Cheaper cars, and/or

Not necessarily.
Do Canadians work cheaper than US auto workers?

2. Greater profit for American stockholders, and
3. If Canadians or Mexicans are employed locally, they won't try to
sneak over here, and

it's not our responsibility to provide employement for foreigners.

4. Their salaries are spent on American products or services we can
provide more cheaply than their domestic companies.

MAYBE they spend their some of their salaries on US products.
(and what would those products be??)
More likely,not.

Everybody wins when countries do what they do best. To illustrate how
silly this "buy American" mantra is, consider a small town where the
only business in the town makes breakfast cereal. Would it make sense
to urge the townspeople to buy their copy machines from the Post
Toastie plant?

Not even comparable.



Hey! I live in that town!
--
aem sends...




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Stormin Mormon wrote:
As long as business supplies what customers want, there is
no need for "enforcement mechanism". Go to a flea market
sometime. You'll see a good example of suppliers providing
what customers want. Works nicely.


What if the vendor doesn't have the proper apprenticeship, union membership,
business license, bonding, or insurance or the customer has not obtained the
proper plans, permits, inspections, or zoning approval?

We're all gonna die, that's what will happen.

HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
As long as business supplies what customers want, there is
no need for "enforcement mechanism". Go to a flea market
sometime. You'll see a good example of suppliers providing
what customers want. Works nicely.


What if the vendor doesn't have the proper apprenticeship, union membership,
business license, bonding, or insurance or the customer has not obtained the
proper plans, permits, inspections, or zoning approval?

We're all gonna die, that's what will happen.



I believe at least PA has started collecting sales tax from swap meet
vendors. Has cut back on the number of businesses setting up stands at
car show/swap meets.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Jim Yanik wrote:

4. Their salaries are spent on American products or services we can
provide more cheaply than their domestic companies.

MAYBE they spend their some of their salaries on US products.
(and what would those products be??)
More likely,not.

Microsoft Windows comes to mind.

As far as I can tell, no Canadian company makes MRI machines. Or very many
movies. Or wine. Or Fein Multimaster knock-offs. Or jumbo jets.

We sell a LOT of stuff to Canada and Mexico. In the latter case, a lot of
guns. Or so it is claimed.