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Ryan P wrote in
:

On 6/3/2009 12:05 PM, George wrote:
dgk wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:08:47 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Change you can believe in. Fast track to government take
over.

I believe in my government - I own part of it. I have no faith in
corporations that exist only to enrich themselves. Given the choice,
and that is the choice, I'll take the government.

Sorry you don't believe in our government. Perhaps you'd be happier
somewhere else.


So you like the "share the wealth idea" where some really smart people
in government will look out for you and control every aspect of
society? You might want to check into this but I believe it has been
tried before and imploded in the 90's


I'd even take Clinton over Obama. Hell, I might even take Carter over
Obama... Maybe. I'd have to think about that one.

A better example of socialism running amok would be your average
European nation. Like France, where people riot when the suggestion
that employers should be allowed to terminate poorly-performing workers,
or that they should have a longer-than 32 hour work week.


California is a fine example of socialism/liberalism in practice.


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Kurt Ullman wrote in
:

In article m,
"Eric" wrote:


Oh by the way, should we consider exactly *why* foreign car companies
are assembling cars in the US?
Does the threat of import tariffs imposed by the government ring a
bell?


yeah. Long before they actually came over that was a dead horse.
Most did that related the strength or not of the UD$


Being able to sell "American-made by american workers" autos helps a great
deal.
Many "imports" contain more US content than "American" brands.

(what's a "UD$" ?)

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Ryan P wrote in
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On 6/3/2009 12:51 PM, Eric wrote:
"Ryan wrote in message


Again, follow the train a bit further... things are cheaper to
produce overseas because the US
government makes it more expensive to do business here.

Why do you think GM failed? GM's profit margin is so much smaller
than the competitions because
of government regulation. And that's before you even get into the
price impact that unions have.

Wa-huh? Sorry, I call BS on this one too. Most of GM's competitors
(Toyota, Honda, Nissan...) have factories and offices in the USA and
therefore are subject to exactly the SAME regulations as the
"domestic" makes. That is of course in addition to the vehicles they
sell having to meet all the same regulatory standards such as safety,
emissions, and MPG. So in that way, the playing field is completely
level.



Okay, I had it straight in my head, but I mixed two different points
together when typing them out. I concede I was unclear in my
statement.
Let me expand:

Much of what the foreign automakers do is ASSEMBLE vehicles in the
US,
not fully manufacture all the parts. Ford, GM, and Chrysler do as
much of that as they can, also, without running afoul of the Union,
because to do everything in the US is cost prohibitive.


No,because many of the component parts also are manufactured right in the
US. Honda has an engine plant in Ohio.ISTR one other major "import" also
making their motors in the US.

OTOH,many "US" autos and their assemblies are made in Canada and Mexico,by
foreigners.


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"Nate Nagel" wrote
Kyle wrote:


My wife's late aunt (a missionary) used to say you're earning "crowns
in heaven".


Yup!

You know what the odd thing is, is I'm fairly handy (ought to be obvious,
as often people will see me on a Saturday morning underneath some vehicle
or other - when it's not raining at least) but I can't remember any of my
neighbors asking me to help them with anything around the house. I'd be
happy to help, at least until I start feeling used... we all have to save
money for stuff we CAN'T do ourselves these days...


Well, sometimes the 'can't' is just 'heck, never used a hammer in my life'.

This came up this past weekend. We host the local neighborhood cookouts
because we have the best screened porch and a decent grill. Happens 2-3
times a month. Folks swap stories and just have a good time for 3-4 hours
then walk home.

One of our regulars brought along a new next door neighbor who's renting the
house of one of our other 'regulars' while he's in an overseas billet
(Navy). Turns out the back raised wood porch was going bad in just a few
spots. Lady renting has her husband out at sea and she'd never done more
than hang pictures. Sweet thing and not stupid, just hadn't ever had to
deal with it.

With all my repairs after my renters, I still have about 16 PT suitable
boards so we grabbed the 5 she said she thought she needed and walked down
(regular guy next to her had the tools). Took us 7 about 45 mins which
included trotting back for a 6th board as I didnt like the look of 2 stair
steps.

Grin, in fact it would have gone faster with fewer of us but we had fun
anyways!

We emailed our friend who's renting out his house and told him it wasn't a
color match to the stain but it should hold and be safe for the newly
walking child the renters had. His response was a happy 'thank you guys!'
and a reminder to her to ask us if she runs into anything as we are apt to
be able to fix it.

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said she'd get
all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get) and bring a
whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I like her ethics!

Sometimes, you win-win...


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In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:


(what's a "UD$" ?)


I was trying to help the dyslexics that were following along by
designating US$. Okay so it was ham handed typing skills.

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Nate Nagel wrote:
Kyle wrote:
On Jun 1, 6:38 pm, "L. Guteireze" wrote:
Greetings

I'm retired from the construction industry, but not yet retired.

We live in a neighborhood, where people help their neighbors, we have
neighborhood cookouts & such. Though retired from construction, people
still ask me to repair this or that, some drywall work, odd job etc. I
always attempt to help people out, and if I find it's going to be a
project
which will take time, I refer them to a contact. When I do work, its
for a
modest charge, because I no longer hold a license, or carry insurance.

A younger couple moved into the neighborhood. They wanted a deck & patio
door replaced. After asking around, a few neighbors pointed them my way.
Being up front, I told them I would _help_, but wouldn't give them a
price
on anything.

They came up with a 14'x16' deck design, I drew it up, so they could
get a
permit. I set up batter boards and strung it out for the post holes
(6 of
them). The deck was going over part of a concrete patio, so I had him
rent
a concrete saw to remove where 4 holes were going to be placed. I cut
out 4
areas 12"x12" for these holes. My first sign this guy was cheap, was
when
he started bitching about how much the saw cost along with the blade. I
helped the fella run the auger, called to have the holes inspected,
poured
the concrete, set the beams & all floor joists. He wanted to install the
flooring himself, and I showed him how to do some railing, because he
wanted a built in gate within the railing. When it came time for the
steps,
I figured them out & cut them for him. After the deck was completed, his
wife started complaining the deck was too _small_. It was their design,
with them saying how big they wanted it.

For the patio door, I still have aluminum coil stock, and an aluminum
brake
to bend for flashing under the new door, and on top for a _z_
flashing. I
set the french doors, which he & his dad were the helpers.

So he says he will have a cook out when it's all done. I never discussed
getting paid, and I really don't want a dime for it. He said he will
have a
cook out when everything was done. Well, he did, several of them, and
didn't invite myself or my family to join. He didn't invite anyone in
the
neighborhood, just some drunken _friends_ from his old neighborhood.
This
was last year when the work was completed. I just wonder where these
friends were, when the work was being done.

Fast forward to this year. He wanted to borrow my sawzall, I told him I
don't loan tools.

Now my lawnmower recently died. This guy bought a new Scag zero turn
this
year. He seen my brother bring over his mower for me to use. The guy
walked
over, said I should have asked him, for he would cut my yard for a
mere $30
a pop. I was totally stunned, he would even suggest he would charge
me. The
fella doesn't cut grass for a living, this is his toy, and I know it was
expensive, but geez. Not only that, several people in the
neighborhood have
different companies cut their yards for $20, and all these lots are
similar
in size.

Am I getting a taste of the "me" generation?

I know, I should just get over it.


My wife's late aunt (a missionary) used to say you're earning "crowns
in heaven".

I think it's harder to accept selfishness in people when you're a
selfless person, because you hope you would be a good influence on
others. But you don't know what kind of seeds you have planted in this
couple or in others by your being willing to give of your time and
efforts and talent. There's a cumulative effect here, and at some
point we can hope/pray that this couple will have that epiphany, that
"ah-hah!" moment when they see what others have done for them and what
they've refused to do for others.

Keep hope alive!


You know what the odd thing is, is I'm fairly handy (ought to be
obvious, as often people will see me on a Saturday morning underneath
some vehicle or other - when it's not raining at least) but I can't
remember any of my neighbors asking me to help them with anything around
the house. I'd be happy to help, at least until I start feeling used...
we all have to save money for stuff we CAN'T do ourselves these days...

nate


I think there are a lot of people who truly would offer help more but
don't have any confidence in their own ability...kind of "I'm no good"
thinking. People used to tell my mom she was artistic and creative, and
she would get irritated at that because she didn't think she knew how to
do anything that everyone else could do if they tried ) I still have
a little bundle of newspaper clippings she started collecting as a
teenager - 1920's - all sorts of "how to" stuff....build a bird house,
order chicks to raise, etc.
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L. Guteireze wrote:

snipped

Am I getting a taste of the "me" generation?
I know, I should just get over it.




RBM wrote:

If it's any consolation, You're the kind of neighbor I'd be happy to have.



Same here. The sorry-a** putz will show up some day soon to ask for more
help. I'd like to be there to here what you tell him.

Loren

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Jim Yanik wrote:
(snip)
No,because many of the component parts also are manufactured right in the
US. Honda has an engine plant in Ohio.ISTR one other major "import" also
making their motors in the US.

OTOH,many "US" autos and their assemblies are made in Canada and Mexico,by
foreigners.


Eh, I can't really regard our northern friends as foreigners. More like
the strait-laced sibling living down the street from Ma'n'Pa that you
still keep in touch with, even though you have been written out of the
will because you went and got all those tattoos.

--
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"L Vetter" wrote in message
...
L. Guteireze wrote:

snipped

Am I getting a taste of the "me" generation?
I know, I should just get over it.




RBM wrote:

If it's any consolation, You're the kind of neighbor I'd be happy to
have.



Same here. The sorry-a** putz will show up some day soon to ask for more
help. I'd like to be there to here what you tell him.

Loren


Erm...hear, nor here.

Loren

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aemeijers wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
(snip)
No,because many of the component parts also are manufactured right
in the US. Honda has an engine plant in Ohio.ISTR one other major
"import" also making their motors in the US.

OTOH,many "US" autos and their assemblies are made in Canada and
Mexico,by foreigners.


Eh, I can't really regard our northern friends as foreigners. More
like the strait-laced sibling living down the street from Ma'n'Pa
that you still keep in touch with, even though you have been written
out of the will because you went and got all those tattoos.


Me either. I generally regard Canada as the attic in which one keeps the
crazy aunt.




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cshenk wrote:

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said
she'd get all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get)
and bring a whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I
like her ethics!
Sometimes, you win-win...


Right. I read a story about a single gal living in an apartment in New York.
She made friends with a single guy in the same building that had a tool kit.
Whenever she encountered a "honey-do," she'd invite him over for dinner. The
thought processes each went through could be summarized as:

She: "He's a miracle worker. He can put up a towel rack so it doesn't fall
down and all I have to do is throw another potato in the pot."

He: "For a couple of thirty-five cent bolts, I get a scrumptious
rack-of-lamb dinner prepared by a miracle worker!"

Then they had sex.

Worked out well for everybody concerned.


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On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:08:15 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
dgk wrote:

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:08:47 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Change you can believe in. Fast track to government take
over.


I believe in my government - I own part of it. I have no faith in
corporations that exist only to enrich themselves. Given the choice,
and that is the choice, I'll take the government.

Sorry you don't believe in our government. Perhaps you'd be happier
somewhere else.


How about governments (or at least legislatures) who exist only to
enrich themselves. Think buildings, roads, etc., named after them,
campaign and other contributions, power and other enrichments. At least
with public corporations I have the opportunity (through stock ownership
and dividends) to siphon off some of that enrichment.
I always thought the America Love it or Leave it campaign was
stupid, nothing changed my mind here.


I always hated the love it or leave it thing myself and laughed when I
wrote that. It's just always used against me. If everyone who thought
differently than me left, who would I argue with?

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In article ,
dgk wrote:

I always hated the love it or leave it thing myself and laughed when I
wrote that. It's just always used against me. If everyone who thought
differently than me left, who would I argue with?


In my case,I'd still have the other voices in my head (grin).

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As I remember, Hurricane Katrena. The churches,
corporations, Red Cross, etc. Tried to go to the aid of the
people in New Orleans. FEMA blocked and prevented them at
every turn. I remember listening to the radio in Rochester
NY. The fire department of Rochester had some rescue
equipment. They were about to leave, and someone from FEMA
called, and told them not to come.

I guess you didn't agree with what I wrote earlier. If
consumers don't like a corporation, they don't have to buy
there. I disagree that the only protection is government.
The protection is consumers deciding where to spend their
money.

I am in much greater need of protection FROM GOVERNMENT than
I am protection from corporations.

Please give me a couple examples of corporate armies.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"dgk" wrote in message
...


The only bulwark to corporate power is the government. In
case you
haven't noticed, corporations now have their own armies and
are pretty
much taking over ours. Just look at what happened during
Katrina.


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I don't know where you are getting your history lessons. But
when I was a kid, we learned that the founding fathers put
limits on government. At this point, it sounds like you've
been corrupted by the liberals who want a nanny state, and
government control over every facet of your life.

--
Christopher A. Young
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..


"dgk" wrote in message
...

Our founding fathers were so afraid of the power of
corporations that
they put very strong limits on them. Remember, they were on
the
receiving end of the power of the first corporations.
Essentially,
corporations could only exist for a single purpose, for a
specific
period of time, and had to act in the public interest. Then
they were
dissolved. Check out
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corp...ations_us.html
for details.





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On 6/4/2009 7:28 AM, dgk wrote:

Our founding fathers were so afraid of the power of corporations that
they put very strong limits on them. Remember, they were on the
receiving end of the power of the first corporations. Essentially,
corporations could only exist for a single purpose, for a specific
period of time, and had to act in the public interest. Then they were
dissolved. Check out
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corp...ations_us.html
for details.


Interesting spin... However, the founding fathers were terrified of
government, which is why they developed the checks and balances system,
and placed strict limitations on what each branch of government could or
could not do. Hell, they even set up the first system of government so
that the Federal branch had virtually no power over the individual
states... something I think we should move back towards a bit. What's
good for people in California is not necessarily good for people in
Wisconsin.

The American Revolution occurred because King George (government)
treated the colonies solely as a revenue source for Britain. This is
how the US government is treating its citizens today.

If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you would certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what the US
government has become... a nanny state.
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aemeijers wrote in
:

Jim Yanik wrote:
(snip)
No,because many of the component parts also are manufactured right in
the US. Honda has an engine plant in Ohio.ISTR one other major
"import" also making their motors in the US.

OTOH,many "US" autos and their assemblies are made in Canada and
Mexico,by foreigners.


Eh, I can't really regard our northern friends as foreigners.


yes,they are.
They don't pay US taxes on their salaries,nor contribute to SS,they don't
spend their salaries in the US,they don't vote here and they don't live
here.
WE get no benefit from them constructing autos in Canada,or Mexico.

More
like the strait-laced sibling living down the street from Ma'n'Pa that
you still keep in touch with, even though you have been written out of
the will because you went and got all those tattoos.

--
aem sends...




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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Greetings, fellow constituionalist!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ryan P" wrote in message
...

Interesting spin... However, the founding fathers were
terrified of
government, which is why they developed the checks and
balances system,
and placed strict limitations on what each branch of
government could or
could not do. Hell, they even set up the first system of
government so
that the Federal branch had virtually no power over the
individual
states... something I think we should move back towards a
bit. What's
good for people in California is not necessarily good for
people in
Wisconsin.

The American Revolution occurred because King George
(government)
treated the colonies solely as a revenue source for Britain.
This is
how the US government is treating its citizens today.

If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you
would certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what
the US
government has become... a nanny state.


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In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

As I remember, Hurricane Katrena. The churches,
corporations, Red Cross, etc. Tried to go to the aid of the
people in New Orleans. FEMA blocked and prevented them at
every turn. I remember listening to the radio in Rochester
NY. The fire department of Rochester had some rescue
equipment. They were about to leave, and someone from FEMA
called, and told them not to come.

FEMA blocked those who were trying to freelance. Red Cross and
those who had actual knowledge of the plans and were able to communicate
with Fed, STATE, and LOCAL agencies and could sustain themselves were
let in.
The absolute last thing you need in these situations are a bunch
of untrained, more importantly unsupported, groups running around. All
three levels screwed the pooch on Katrina (largely because they followed
their set plans to the letter), but this is one place where I would have
to disagree. You get the freelancers and quite often they become an
additional burden and you have to divert resources from operations to
saving them.

--
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as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:
As I remember, Hurricane Katrena. The churches,
corporations, Red Cross, etc. Tried to go to the aid of the
people in New Orleans. FEMA blocked and prevented them at
every turn. I remember listening to the radio in Rochester
NY. The fire department of Rochester had some rescue
equipment. They were about to leave, and someone from FEMA
called, and told them not to come.

I guess you didn't agree with what I wrote earlier. If
consumers don't like a corporation, they don't have to buy


For certain critical needs, there is often no choice (pharm., medical
or surgical devices)

there. I disagree that the only protection is government.
The protection is consumers deciding where to spend their
money.

I am in much greater need of protection FROM GOVERNMENT than
I am protection from corporations.


Nice to think so, but what about:
drugs causing birth defects or disease
restaurants with dirt and vermin
unfunded pensions
job discrimination
no pay for overtime
exposure to toxic or carcinogenic stuff at work, school
hazardous waste in yer water supply
ddt in your food or water
someone with aids donates blood
your local hospital is scamming you, your insurance company and govt. (I
worked for such a corp.)
organ donors from unregulated sources (they sell 'em in Asia)
mercury in your fish


Please give me a couple examples of corporate armies.

Blackwater? Got privatized medical care in jails in Florida.


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In article ,
" wrote:


For certain critical needs, there is often no choice (pharm., medical
or surgical devices)

Nonsense. Don't like Eli Lilly for some reason. You can stay away
from Prozac and take Paxil or many others. At least four Companies make
new hips okayed for use in the US. Etc., etc. Most places have many
hospitals and tons of docs to sort through. If there is no choice, it is
probably because your insurance company, even there many companies give
you a choice.


Please give me a couple examples of corporate armies.

Blackwater? Got privatized medical care in jails in Florida.


Which generally is no worse than the pre-privatized medical care.
Damning with faint praise I know.

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as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.
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Ryan P wrote:

-snip-
If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you would certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what the US
government has become... a nanny state.


Just for giggles. . . which of the founder's writings have you read
that gave you that impression?

I've read volumes of John Adams', Ben Franklin's, and Thomas
Jefferson's words-- and a few thousand pages of the other Declaration
Signers writings. IMO, they would be more concerned that gov't is
doing more to help businesses than citizens, and that politicians are
far too often just lining their own pockets. But for the most part
they'd be pretty proud that their grand experiment has withstood the
test of time.

Jim
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On 6/4/2009 9:55 AM, wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:


I am in much greater need of protection FROM GOVERNMENT than
I am protection from corporations.


Nice to think so, but what about:
drugs causing birth defects or disease
restaurants with dirt and vermin
unfunded pensions
job discrimination
no pay for overtime
exposure to toxic or carcinogenic stuff at work, school
hazardous waste in yer water supply
ddt in your food or water
someone with aids donates blood
your local hospital is scamming you, your insurance company and govt. (I
worked for such a corp.)
organ donors from unregulated sources (they sell 'em in Asia)
mercury in your fish



Some of those mentioned above are common-sense public-safety items I
don't have any quarrel with. Others are nanny-state items.

DDT, for example... Was merely victimized by the environmentalist
organizations. Its not anywhere near as harmful as people believe. In
fact, the banning of DDT has led to a resurgence of malaria and other
pests (such as bed bugs)

Worker compensation is another item I don't think government should be
involved in. Government should make sure companies aren't employing
children 90 hours a week running heavy machinery, not saying that
everyone MUST be paid a minimum wage.


Please give me a couple examples of corporate armies.

Blackwater? Got privatized medical care in jails in Florida.


Blackwater is hired by governments for the sole reason that they are
cheaper to pay for than actual soldiers. Another admission that
government simply CAN'T do anything as cost-efficiently as the private
sector.
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Ryan P wrote in
:

On 6/4/2009 7:28 AM, dgk wrote:

Our founding fathers were so afraid of the power of corporations that
they put very strong limits on them. Remember, they were on the
receiving end of the power of the first corporations. Essentially,
corporations could only exist for a single purpose, for a specific
period of time, and had to act in the public interest. Then they were
dissolved. Check out
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corp.../history_corpo
rations_us.html for details.


Interesting spin... However, the founding fathers were terrified of
government, which is why they developed the checks and balances
system, and placed strict limitations on what each branch of
government could or could not do. Hell, they even set up the first
system of government so that the Federal branch had virtually no power
over the individual states... something I think we should move back
towards a bit. What's good for people in California is not
necessarily good for people in Wisconsin.

The American Revolution occurred because King George (government)
treated the colonies solely as a revenue source for Britain. This is
how the US government is treating its citizens today.

If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you would
certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what the US
government has become... a nanny state.


Heh,WHAT "strong limits" did the -Founding Fathers- put on corporations?

In what document?

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Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

For certain critical needs, there is often no choice (pharm., medical
or surgical devices)

Nonsense. Don't like Eli Lilly for some reason. You can stay away
from Prozac and take Paxil or many others. At least four Companies make
new hips okayed for use in the US. Etc., etc. Most places have many
hospitals and tons of docs to sort through. If there is no choice, it is
probably because your insurance company, even there many companies give
you a choice.


You have your stent and heart valve picked out?


Please give me a couple examples of corporate armies.

Blackwater? Got privatized medical care in jails in Florida.


Which generally is no worse than the pre-privatized medical care.
Damning with faint praise I know.

I'd gamble on the private stuff - I know it's warts and always find them )


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Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Ryan P wrote:

-snip-
If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you would certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what the US
government has become... a nanny state.


Just for giggles. . . which of the founder's writings have you read
that gave you that impression?

I've read volumes of John Adams', Ben Franklin's, and Thomas
Jefferson's words-- and a few thousand pages of the other Declaration
Signers writings. IMO, they would be more concerned that gov't is
doing more to help businesses than citizens, and that politicians are
far too often just lining their own pockets. But for the most part
they'd be pretty proud that their grand experiment has withstood the
test of time.

Jim


IIRC, George Washington insisted for some time that the POTUS be
addressed as "Excellency"....or was it Adams? George fought against
strenuous opposition to have a "standing army"...many opposed that.
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In article ,
" wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote:

For certain critical needs, there is often no choice (pharm., medical
or surgical devices)

Nonsense. Don't like Eli Lilly for some reason. You can stay away
from Prozac and take Paxil or many others. At least four Companies make
new hips okayed for use in the US. Etc., etc. Most places have many
hospitals and tons of docs to sort through. If there is no choice, it is
probably because your insurance company, even there many companies give
you a choice.


You have your stent and heart valve picked out?


My neighbor had a heart valve replaced recently, and they asked if he
wanted pig valve or mechanical and then a choice of 2-3 mechanical ones.
I have written multiple articles on orthopods giving choices of which
knee you want replaced (the distaff side can even get their choice of 3
companies making "gender specific knees". Docs should be talking about
the different kinds of stents available if possible since they all work
by a little different mechanisms and thus should be covered for that
pesky little Informed Consent issue.

--
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as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
there is an equally disproportionate overreaction.
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Ryan P wrote:
On 6/4/2009 9:55 AM, wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:


I am in much greater need of protection FROM GOVERNMENT than
I am protection from corporations.


Nice to think so, but what about:
drugs causing birth defects or disease
restaurants with dirt and vermin
unfunded pensions
job discrimination
no pay for overtime
exposure to toxic or carcinogenic stuff at work, school
hazardous waste in yer water supply
ddt in your food or water
someone with aids donates blood
your local hospital is scamming you, your insurance company and govt. (I
worked for such a corp.)
organ donors from unregulated sources (they sell 'em in Asia)
mercury in your fish



Some of those mentioned above are common-sense public-safety items I
don't have any quarrel with. Others are nanny-state items.

DDT, for example... Was merely victimized by the environmentalist
organizations. Its not anywhere near as harmful as people believe. In
fact, the banning of DDT has led to a resurgence of malaria and other
pests (such as bed bugs)


Much more likely that the epidemic is caused by over-use of pesticides
(just as with antibiotics) and too many people sleeping with people they
don't know very well.

Worker compensation is another item I don't think government should be
involved in. Government should make sure companies aren't employing
children 90 hours a week running heavy machinery, not saying that
everyone MUST be paid a minimum wage.


NOTHING would improve the economy as much as trashing the whole W.C.
system in all 50 states. It is a horrible waste for physicians,
employers, insurance companies and a lot of workers. Folks are robbed
in the workplace, before they see their checks, because of the fraud and
abuse of W.C. I've watched some great videos of "disabled" people.


Please give me a couple examples of corporate armies.

Blackwater? Got privatized medical care in jails in Florida.


Blackwater is hired by governments for the sole reason that they are
cheaper to pay for than actual soldiers. Another admission that
government simply CAN'T do anything as cost-efficiently as the private
sector.


Nobody knows that - Blackwater doesn't keep books.
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In article ,
" wrote:

Nobody knows that - Blackwater doesn't keep books.


Technically doesn't need to. The government knows what they pay
for a soldier and what they pay for BW employee through their contracts.
If B is less than A...
Of course Blackwater isn't providing an army. It is providing
bodyguard/security services, much easier and less expensive than an
army. The proper comparison would probably be with the Diplomatic
Security folks at State, Secret Service, etc.

--
The inevitable Godwinization of Usenet threads is a principle
as immutable as Newton's Third Law meaning that, for every action
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On 6/4/2009 11:31 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Ryan wrote:

-snip-
If you read the writings of the founding fathers, you would certainly
come to the conclusion that they would be appalled at what the US
government has become... a nanny state.


Just for giggles. . . which of the founder's writings have you read
that gave you that impression?

I've read volumes of John Adams', Ben Franklin's, and Thomas
Jefferson's words-- and a few thousand pages of the other Declaration
Signers writings. IMO, they would be more concerned that gov't is
doing more to help businesses than citizens, and that politicians are
far too often just lining their own pockets. But for the most part
they'd be pretty proud that their grand experiment has withstood the
test of time.


Thomas Jefferson said “My reading of history convinces me that most
bad government results from too much government.” My general
understanding of TJ is that, with a few exceptions, he believed that
Government shouldn't be involved in micromanagement of its citizens and
industries.

Of course, one's personal philosophy will color how such writings are
interpreted.

Their grand experiment HAS stood the test of time, yes. But how much
resemblance does it bear to the ideals they had in mind when the framed
the Constitution? In my mind, its a cursory resemblance. Sure, better
than most places in the world, but IMO, that's in spite of what we've
done to our country since WWII.


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On 6/4/2009 12:19 PM, wrote:

DDT, for example... Was merely victimized by the environmentalist
organizations. Its not anywhere near as harmful as people believe. In
fact, the banning of DDT has led to a resurgence of malaria and other
pests (such as bed bugs)


Much more likely that the epidemic is caused by over-use of pesticides
(just as with antibiotics) and too many people sleeping with people they
don't know very well.


Ask any exterminator that's been in the business for a long time, who
can remember using DDT. DDT was more effective at controlling pests.
The US even urges countries with malaria problems to use it.

Of course, it needs to be used properly. When used properly, its not
an evil scourge any more than carbon dioxide is a "hazardous gas."

Worker compensation is another item I don't think government should be
involved in. Government should make sure companies aren't employing
children 90 hours a week running heavy machinery, not saying that
everyone MUST be paid a minimum wage.


NOTHING would improve the economy as much as trashing the whole W.C.
system in all 50 states. It is a horrible waste for physicians,
employers, insurance companies and a lot of workers. Folks are robbed
in the workplace, before they see their checks, because of the fraud and
abuse of W.C. I've watched some great videos of "disabled" people.


Agreed. In fact, let's add a trashing and reforming of all the
disability systems. I know of people who are perfectly capable of
working who are collecting SSI disability, at the same time as other
people who ARE legitimately unable to work full time that "don't qualify."

Blackwater is hired by governments for the sole reason that they are
cheaper to pay for than actual soldiers. Another admission that
government simply CAN'T do anything as cost-efficiently as the private
sector.


Nobody knows that - Blackwater doesn't keep books.


Blackwater is given a bulk contract. We know how much money we give
them, and what benefit (or liability) we get from them. It should be
relatively easy to weigh that against the cost of having military units
(and all the associate support costs that go along with a deployment)
doing the same work.

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On Jun 4, 2:35*pm, Ryan P wrote:
On 6/4/2009 12:19 PM, wrote:

Nobody knows that - Blackwater doesn't keep books.


* Blackwater is given a bulk contract. *We know how much money we give
them, and what benefit (or liability) we get from them. *It should be
relatively easy to weigh that against the cost of having military units
(and all the associate support costs that go along with a deployment)
doing the same work.


What's the going rate for "plausible deniability" nowadays?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

R
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On 6/4/2009 1:41 PM, RicodJour wrote:

What's the going rate for "plausible deniability" nowadays?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability


Depends where you look. Politicians that vote on bills they've never
read receive pretty hefty gifts from lobbyists.
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On Jun 4, 2:50*pm, Ryan P wrote:
On 6/4/2009 1:41 PM, RicodJour wrote:

What's the going rate for "plausible deniability" nowadays?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability


* Depends where you look. *Politicians that vote on bills they've never
read receive pretty hefty gifts from lobbyists.


I was referring to Blackwater.

R


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On 6/4/2009 2:12 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 4, 2:50 pm, Ryan wrote:
On 6/4/2009 1:41 PM, RicodJour wrote:

What's the going rate for "plausible deniability" nowadays?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability


Depends where you look. Politicians that vote on bills they've never
read receive pretty hefty gifts from lobbyists.


I was referring to Blackwater.



I know. I was assuming you were implying that Blackwater = Bad. I
chose not to engage in that line of conversation, because IF that is
your opinion, there's no point in discussing it. Nobody ever changed
anyone's mind on Usenet.
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On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:09:15 -0400, "
wrote:

-snip-
IIRC, George Washington insisted for some time that the POTUS be
addressed as "Excellency"....or was it Adams? George fought against
strenuous opposition to have a "standing army"...many opposed that.


I think you recall incorrectly. A recent Ellis bio is titled,"His
Excellency, George Washington" [or something like that] - but he was
known as "His Excellency" when he was the General of the Army.

When the title for presidency was first discussed, and Washington was
president, Adams' suggestion was "His Highness, the president of the
United States and Protector of the Rights of the same" - Washington
chose 'President of the United States.' and further designated that
Mr. President was title enough.


Jim
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wrote

I think there are a lot of people who truly would offer help more but
don't have any confidence in their own ability...kind of "I'm no good"
thinking.


Quite true. My Mom didnt raise me that way. She said 'Carol, you can do
anything you set your mind to, if you study up on it'. She's right.

People used to tell my mom she was artistic and creative, and she would
get irritated at that because she didn't think she knew how to do anything
that everyone else could do if they tried ) I still have a little
bundle of newspaper clippings she started collecting as a teenager -
1920's - all sorts of "how to" stuff....build a bird house, order chicks
to raise, etc.


Neat thing to have!


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On Jun 4, 4:16*pm, Ryan P wrote:
On 6/4/2009 2:12 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 4, 2:50 pm, Ryan *wrote:
*On 6/4/2009 1:41 PM, RicodJour wrote:


* *What's the going rate for "plausible deniability" nowadays?
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability


* * Depends where you look. *Politicians that vote on bills they've never
*read receive pretty hefty gifts from lobbyists.


I was referring to Blackwater.


* I know. *I was assuming you were implying that Blackwater = Bad. *I
chose not to engage in that line of conversation, because IF that is
your opinion, there's no point in discussing it. *Nobody ever changed
anyone's mind on Usenet. *


I am not thrilled with Blackwater, but that is not what I was saying.
You know what they say about assume.
Blackwater is the military equivalent of having all part time
employees so you don't have to comply with regulations that would
hamper your operation.
You know, weasels.
I have had my changed on and by Usenet.
You haven't?
That's scary.

R
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"cshenk" wrote

She emailed back a small list today. It's easy stuff and she said she'd
get all the parts (needed help on a few of them on what to get) and bring
a whole pork loin to the next picnic for goodies. Grin, I like her
ethics!


Follow-up. Don went over on one of the small ones today about noon because
it needed to be measured. Cracked doorbell. He pulled it out, measured
bolt width, and showed her exactly what to get. Since she needed to make a
quick run anyway to a grocery (next to the big box), she took him and they
got one that fits the old holes perfectly. He had it on in 5 mins and
showed her how to do that.

I know these simple things are easy for *us* here, but due to her upbringing
and her age (she's 19 on her own for the first time with husband deployed)
there many things she's just not done 'yet'.

Trade totally even BTW as Don needed a box of brads, some sandpaper and some
A1 for a marinade so the ride made it a perfect match.

Good thing it happened too as he noted the back seat driver side seatbelt
had a worn edge and shouldn't be used to put her kid's carrier or anyone in.
He only noted it because in Sasebo he used to check for such at his
auto-mechanic job and it was habit. The rip was not obvious to the eyes
being just under seat level but the belt was 50% severed somehow? It's also
an easy fix so he put the kid on the back passenger side which was fine and
told her what to get and to call him to replace it when she has the part
(Autoparts 2 miles away but other direction and no rush as other side is
fine).


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