Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Yes.. your gonna have to shut it off at the house main valve and then open
the taps in the house to allow air to go into the pipes...then drain your
tank at the bottom...when the tank quits draining remove and replace...Jim

Hmm. That sounds like excellent advice. I'll do that. Thank
you.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jimi" wrote in message
el...

Yes.. your gonna have to shut it off at the house main valve
and then open
the taps in the house to allow air to go into the
pipes...then drain your
tank at the bottom...when the tank quits draining remove and
replace...Jim

On Wed, 27 May 2009 18:11:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Use a 1/4 turn brass ball valve on the cold out of the wall. I didn't
wait on a warranty the same day my WH failed. I did collect the cost,
less labor.

My new WH was a different size, etc. The borg had flexible, braided,
hot water lines. I was able to turn and twist the line so it
connected.

The lines transition from PEX to copper stub brass rubber/nylon
hose brass gal. nipple on the tank.

No corrosion after several years.

On May 27, 6:11*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Enjoy the learning experience...?

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.

R

On May 27, 7:20�pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 27, 6:11�pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Enjoy the learning experience...?

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? �I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. �It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.

R

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

On May 27, 5:11*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Last people didnt put one in, but you were the last person wernt you.
Was that the other personality.

On May 27, 6:46*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 27, 7:20 pm, RicodJour wrote:





On May 27, 6:11 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Enjoy the learning experience...?

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.

R

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The trailer is probably worth less than a Vertex.

Use a 1/4 turn brass ball valve on the cold out of the wall.

CY: yes, I was thinking ball or gate valve. Globe valve
restrict the water flow, a bit.

I didn't
wait on a warranty the same day my WH failed. I did collect
the cost,
less labor.

CY: I'm going to take the WH out, and haul it to the store.
Hope to come back with a new one.

My new WH was a different size, etc. The borg had flexible,
braided,
hot water lines. I was able to turn and twist the line so it
connected.

CY: I'm considering doing some sweat solder, and make the
lines nice and pretty, this time. Flex is also a good
thought.

The lines transition from PEX to copper stub brass
rubber/nylon
hose brass gal. nipple on the tank.

CY: That does sound good.

No corrosion after several years.

CY: EVen better. thanks.

Enjoy the learning experience...?

CY: so, so, true.

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell,
you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk!

CY: This won't be my first water heater.

What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water
heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an
extra
five minutes.

CY: Trailer life. The WH is in a compartment that only
access from outdoors. I'm standing on a step stool. In 20
degree wind, working in an access door that's only about an
inch wider than the WH. It's not as convenient as working in
a cellar.

R

On Wed, 27 May 2009 16:46:53 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

I get by just fine, one valve in (cold).

No reason for an outbound shut off ball valve (from WH).That costs
money.

You may know different?

I can see one ball valve. But two? Might work. And a couple
of copper unions? To make disassembly so much easier. One
other poster suggested braided flex line, and I may go that
route.

If good fortune is with me, tomorrow I trade for a
replacement 6 year tank. I hope I'm not at this adress in
six years.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from
tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year
tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?


Put one on both the supply AND outlet, that way you can change tank
again if you have to without draining the house down. Change the drain
valve to a ball valve before you even install it. If you want to get
really slick, use flexible tubing and/or a handful of elbows and make a
"heat trap" on both inlet and outlet sides. Have fun!

nate



--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On May 27, 7:46*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 27, 7:20 pm, RicodJour wrote:



On May 27, 6:11 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Enjoy the learning experience...?

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.

R

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to
tank damage from water hammer. A check valve will prevent water
draining back from the rest of the house without cutting the tank off
from the various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank from
water hammer. If you do install a check valve you will want bleeder
valves on both sides of the it. One is to admit the air when your
trying to change the water heater and the other is to drain the hot
water plumbing when you need to do so. Since the hot water plumbing
is kind of useless without the water heater I don't see the point of a
shut off on the outlet side. Without an outlet valve the tank drain
also serves as a hot water plumbing drain.

--
Tom Horne

Tom Horne wrote:
On May 27, 7:46 pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 27, 7:20 pm, RicodJour wrote:



On May 27, 6:11 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.
Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.
Any polite, constructive advice, folks?
Enjoy the learning experience...?
You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.
R
Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to
tank damage from water hammer.

How could a valve on the output line possibly cause tank damage? Maybe
if I were to close that valve fast for some reason, but that would be
the case if I closed another hot valve fast.

On May 27, 6:20*pm, Tom Horne wrote:
On May 27, 7:46*pm, bob haller wrote:



On May 27, 7:20 pm, RicodJour wrote:

On May 27, 6:11 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Enjoy the learning experience...?

You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.

R

Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to
tank damage from water hammer. *A check valve will prevent water
draining back from the rest of the house without cutting the tank off
from the various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank from
water hammer. *If you do install a check valve you will want bleeder
valves on both sides of the it. *One is to admit the air when your
trying to change the water heater and the other is to drain the hot
water plumbing when you need to do so. *Since the hot water plumbing
is kind of useless without the water heater I don't see the point of a
shut off on the outlet side. *Without an outlet valve the tank drain
also serves as a hot water plumbing drain.

--
Tom Horne

Tom-

Two comments (actually a question & an answer)

one....how can this be true? "Putting a valve on the output line of a
hot water heater can lead to tank damage from water hammer."

The only time this valve is closed is when you replace the water
heater, if it gets closed "by accident", won't be closed for
long....... no hot water.

That concept of "various trapped pockets of air that cushion the tank
from water hammer" is a myth....air dissolves into the water and
those pockets of air go away. If you want to reduce water hammer use
some appropriately located & sized water hammer arrestors.

btw, the water heaters T&P valve will keep the pressure spikes below
its threshold.
And besides, the water heater itself is not infinitely rigid so I
doubt it sees much of a pressure spike.


two.... "Since the hot water plumbing is kind of useless without the
water heater I don't see the point of a
shut off on the outlet side."

Here's the point
A valve on cold water AND on the hot water ....both installed on the
"house side" of the water heater flexible connection lines......

allow the water heater to be isolated from the house plumbing.

This makes your NEXT water heater replacement a simple, relatively
"dry" process. The hot water plumbing isnt draining back onto you as
you work.

cheers
Bob

John wrote:
Tom Horne wrote:
On May 27, 7:46 pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 27, 7:20 pm, RicodJour wrote:



On May 27, 6:11 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.
Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.
Any polite, constructive advice, folks?
Enjoy the learning experience...?
You've been around the block more than a few times - hell, you've worn
grooves in the sidewalk! What does snow have to do with sticking a
shut-off valve on the installation? I'm assuming the water heater is
inside in snow country. It couldn't have taken more than an extra
five minutes.
R
Install 2 ball valves one on in, one on out, well away from tank.

use only for leak emergencies.

makes swapping tanks far easier, and spring for a 12 year tank, so you
dont have this trouble again soon.

the vertex tanks now get you a 30% federal tax credit

Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to
tank damage from water hammer.

How could a valve on the output line possibly cause tank damage? Maybe
if I were to close that valve fast for some reason, but that would be
the case if I closed another hot valve fast.

Many water pressure regulators for homes have check valves
that prevent water from going back to the water meter and
water heaters have check valves in the short pipe nipples
you may see on top of a tank type water heater. The check
valves allow water to flow only in one direction. Water in
the heater expands and the typical home plumbing has enough
room for the expanding water. If not, an expansion tank is
called for. If you were close valves on both hot and cold
connections to the water heater, the T&P safety would open
and flood the floor if it's not piped to a drain. Many water
heaters have a pipe connected to the T&P valve that stops
just above the floor next to the heater. Look at this website
and read the paragraph titled "Thermal expansion". The site
has some good information about water heaters that is easy to understand.

http://www.chilipepperapp.com/whwp.htm

TDD

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Yeah.

Get yourself a "ball valve" the size of copper pipe from your water meter
and while the water is off, just cut out a section of pipe and put in the
1/4 turn ball valve. The ball valves cause very little pressure drop (they
are even better than gate valves.)

An inside whole house water shutoff is all you really need althought it's
"nice" to be able to isolate the hot water heater and still permit water for
the toilets.

Again, with compression fittings you don't have to worry about soldering.
The water meter shut off may not be 100% leak tight. The compression
fittings work even when there is water present. Make sure you have proper
sized wrenches on hand and just tighten enough to stop leaks.

You might be able to get a valve that uses "O" rings to make the seal.
These usually can be installed without wrenches (hand tight will do; some
just require that you insert the pipe into the end and that's it!)

It's up to you whether you trust plastic valves or want to go with brass
with a stainless "ball."

If you insert plastic parts in a metal water line, you may want to ensure
that you have an electrical connection around the plastic part. Many
older homes use the water pipe connection for the electrical "ground."
(Today, it's standard to place two ground rods.)

If it were a frame home, I'd do that, with the valves on
both sides. And either copper unions, or flex. However, it's
a trailer. So, the WH connections are far higher than any
sink or tub.

Wouldn't it need a heat trap on the hot side only?

The flexible tubing might avoid the need for copper unions,
since the flex has swivel ends. Good idea.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

Put one on both the supply AND outlet, that way you can
change tank
again if you have to without draining the house down.
Change the drain
valve to a ball valve before you even install it. If you
want to get
really slick, use flexible tubing and/or a handful of elbows
and make a
"heat trap" on both inlet and outlet sides. Have fun!

nate



--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"fftt" wrote in message
...

Here's the point
A valve on cold water AND on the hot water ....both
installed on the
"house side" of the water heater flexible connection
lines......

allow the water heater to be isolated from the house
plumbing.

This makes your NEXT water heater replacement a simple,
relatively
"dry" process. The hot water plumbing isnt draining back
onto you as
you work.

cheers
Bob

:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.


actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.

2 valves elminate all this.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....

actually any home, its easier to work without water draining
back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in
them.

CY: Right, it's impossible to solder wet lines.

2 valves elminate all this.

CY: That's true. But you have to solder on the valves.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

CY: The trailer I live in, the top of the WH is about three
feet higher than any sink or tub or toilet in the place.
Won't be that hard to drain the water out of where I'm
soldering.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank
replacement.....

CY: True.

On May 28, 9:07�am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
actually any home, its easier to work without water draining
back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in
them.

CY: Right, it's impossible to solder wet lines.

2 valves elminate all this.

CY: That's true. But you have to solder on the valves.

Note my original post said put valves far away from tank, this
elminates soldering on valves. which with water on the other side
wouldnt work anyway...or you couldf use unions..

around here code now requires a pressure tank and checkvalve at meter
to prevent siphoning from say a abandoned swiimming pool water back
into the system.

The folks at HD didn't make me happy. Aparently, GE refunds
only the original (vintage 2004) purchase price $190, or so.
And then I get to pay the balance of the $388 replacement
heater. Not like they give me a new heater, outright, or
anything normal like that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message ...
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thu, 28 May 2009 15:41:10 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The folks at HD didn't make me happy. Aparently, GE refunds
only the original (vintage 2004) purchase price $190, or so.
And then I get to pay the balance of the $388 replacement
heater. Not like they give me a new heater, outright, or
anything normal like that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message ...
Water heater leaking. No shut off for the WH. Have to go for
the water main to the house. Why no shut off? Last people
didn't put one in. I changed the WH in Jan of 2004, but
there were 16 inches snow on the ground, and I didn't do
anything pretty. Just change the tank.

Six year warranty. And, yes, I do have the paper work.
Supposed to rain tomorrow. I'm going to see what I can do
with it tonight. May be able to get the tank out, and then
put a shutoff on the cold. So I can have water tonight.

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Honestly, did you expect anything different?

Water heater on my trailer just developed a big leak. I
spent all day today replacing it. Even though it leaked in
warranty. The deal is that they (Home Depot) refund my $198
from 2004, and then charge me the present $388 for the
replacement. I'm not at all pleased with that.

After 7 hours of work, store time, chasing around. I finally
had the grand pilot relighting ceremony. When the water
warms up, it's time for shower and clean clothes. I put a
quarter turn ball valve on the cold side, and didn't valve
the hot side. Took out some bent (kinked) soft copper, so
the flow won't be as restricted.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

The valve is about 3 feet from the tank. Just put valve on
the cold side. The tank connection is via flare fitting. I
moved the flare to pipe adaptors from the old tank, so that
made the connection at the tank. So far, far as I know, no
leaks. The pilot lit up, and then the whoof of the gas
flame. Sounds like I'm in hot water for a few more years.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

Note my original post said put valves far away from tank,
this
elminates soldering on valves. which with water on the other
side
wouldnt work anyway...or you couldf use unions..

around here code now requires a pressure tank and checkvalve
at meter
to prevent siphoning from say a abandoned swiimming pool
water back
into the system.

On usenet? Well, I think there was the time back in 2003
that someone was impolite, but that was only a rare
occasion.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren" wrote in message
...

Any polite, constructive advice, folks?

Honestly, did you expect anything different?

On Thu, 28 May 2009 17:27:34 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The pilot lit up, and then the whoof of the gas
flame. Sounds like I'm in hot water for a few more years.

Test the draft with a match, make sure the vent is drafting upwards.

That is really the final test, imo

bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.


actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.

2 valves elminate all this.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....



You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.


actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.

2 valves elminate all this.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....



You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD

yeah, but you won't be living there anymore, so you'll be able to laugh
about it

nate

--
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Nate Nagel wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.


actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.

2 valves elminate all this.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....



You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD

yeah, but you won't be living there anymore, so you'll be able to laugh
about it

nate


Yea, I can't stand to live with or around dumb asses.

TDD

On May 28, 6:53�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.

actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.

2 valves elminate all this.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....

You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the T&P valve will open. thats no biggie, it might leak when reset

The Daring Dufas wrote:
John wrote:
Tom Horne wrote:

Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to
tank damage from water hammer.

How could a valve on the output line possibly cause tank damage?
Maybe if I were to close that valve fast for some reason, but that
would be the case if I closed another hot valve fast.

Many water pressure regulators for homes have check valves
that prevent water from going back to the water meter and
water heaters have check valves in the short pipe nipples
you may see on top of a tank type water heater. The check
valves allow water to flow only in one direction. Water in
the heater expands and the typical home plumbing has enough
room for the expanding water. If not, an expansion tank is
called for. If you were close valves on both hot and cold
connections to the water heater, the T&P safety would open
and flood the floor if it's not piped to a drain. Many water
heaters have a pipe connected to the T&P valve that stops
just above the floor next to the heater. Look at this website
and read the paragraph titled "Thermal expansion". The site
has some good information about water heaters that is easy to understand.

I understand that *operating* a water heater with the valves closed
would be unwise, but one doesn't install a valve on a water heater so
that it can be operated while closed. The valve is for closing when
the water heater is offline to be serviced or replaced. This is like
having a drain plug on a boat, you don't have a drain for when you use
the boat, it is for when the boat is offline/out of the water!

Stormin Mormon wrote:
The folks at HD didn't make me happy. Aparently, GE refunds
only the original (vintage 2004) purchase price $190, or so.
And then I get to pay the balance of the $388 replacement
heater. Not like they give me a new heater, outright, or
anything normal like that.


Well, they could have refunded "pro rata" and given you $33.00
for the one year you had left on the warranty.

When my water heater failed, I gained a new appreciation for hot
water than has not quite faded after 16 months.

--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little ****ant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

bob haller wrote:
On May 28, 6:53�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.
actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,
and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.
2 valves elminate all this.
and what difference does a frame home make?
mine is brick but the water system is the same.
the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....
You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the T&P valve will open. thats no biggie, it might leak when reset

Possibly damaging the T&P valve. It's a safety valve not
meant to open over and over again. When the valves are
popped open more than a few times, they will tend to start
leaking. Besides, if the valve doesn't go outside or to a
drain, you will wind up with a very wet floor to mop.

TDD

On May 28, 3:53*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.

actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,

and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.

2 valves elminate all this.

and what difference does a frame home make?

mine is brick but the water system is the same.

the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....

You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD

TDD-

What's the big deal if BOTH valves are turned off while the water
heater is in place?

How is that any different than when all the hot water valves at all
the fixtures are off?

The water heater will heat the water to the temperature set by the
thermostat & shut off.......just like it always does.

cheers
Bob

On May 28, 7:38*pm, John wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
John wrote:
Tom Horne wrote:
Putting a valve on the output line of a hot water heater can lead to
tank damage from water hammer. *

How could a valve on the output line possibly cause tank damage? *
Maybe if I were to close that valve fast for some reason, but that
would be the case if I closed another hot valve fast.

Many water pressure regulators for homes have check valves
that prevent water from going back to the water meter and
water heaters have check valves in the short pipe nipples
you may see on top of a tank type water heater. The check
valves allow water to flow only in one direction. Water in
the heater expands and the typical home plumbing has enough
room for the expanding water. If not, an expansion tank is
called for. If you were close valves on both hot and cold
connections to the water heater, the T&P safety would open
and flood the floor if it's not piped to a drain. Many water
heaters have a pipe connected to the T&P valve that stops
just above the floor next to the heater. Look at this website
and read the paragraph titled "Thermal expansion". The site
has some good information about water heaters that is easy to understand.

I understand that *operating* a water heater with the valves closed
would be unwise, but one doesn't install a valve on a water heater so
that it can be operated while closed. * The valve is for closing when
the water heater is offline to be serviced or replaced. *This is like
having a drain plug on a boat, you don't have a drain for when you use
the boat, it is for when the boat is offline/out of the water!

........ I understand that *operating* a water heater with the valves
closed would be unwise......

How is that unwise & more importantly how is that any different than
having all the hot water valves off at the fixtures (normal operating
state)?

cheers
Bob

On May 28, 8:31*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On May 28, 6:53 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.
actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,
and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.
2 valves elminate all this.
and what difference does a frame home make?
mine is brick but the water system is the same.
the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....
You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the T&P valve will open. thats no biggie, it might leak when reset

Possibly damaging the T&P valve. It's a safety valve not
meant to open over and over again. When the valves are
popped open more than a few times, they will tend to start
leaking. Besides, if the valve doesn't go outside or to a
drain, you will wind up with a very wet floor to mop.

TDD

Why is the T/P valve going to open?

It will only open (when both inlet & outlet valves are closed) IF the
water heater over heats due to a failed thermostat.

T/P valves only open when T or P exceeds limits.......

cheers
Bob

fftt wrote:
On May 28, 8:31 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On May 28, 6:53 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
bob haller wrote:
:
A truly excellent idea. For the moments when the WH is in
the cellar of a frame home.
actually any home, its easier to work without water draining back on
you,
and nearly impossible to solder copper lines with water in them.
2 valves elminate all this.
and what difference does a frame home make?
mine is brick but the water system is the same.
the only time both valves are closed is during tank replacement.....
You are aware of "The Dumb Ass Effect"? You will
know better than to shut off both valves while
the heater is in operation but "some dumb ass"
will come along and turn the damn things off
when they're not supposed to.
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
the T&P valve will open. thats no biggie, it might leak when reset
Possibly damaging the T&P valve. It's a safety valve not
meant to open over and over again. When the valves are
popped open more than a few times, they will tend to start
leaking. Besides, if the valve doesn't go outside or to a
drain, you will wind up with a very wet floor to mop.

TDD

Why is the T/P valve going to open?

It will only open (when both inlet & outlet valves are closed) IF the
water heater over heats due to a failed thermostat.

T/P valves only open when T or P exceeds limits.......

cheers
Bob

water still expands as it gets hotter. Not much, but it does.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel