In article
,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article , Karla
wrote:


By that reasoning, every full serve gas station should charge you for a
fixed amount full tank, not the actual number of gallons they pump into
your car. Yet somehow they stay in business by charging you just for
the amount you actually receive...

Seriously Where does one find full service gas stations any more?
/Seriously

Both situations are self-regulating, driven by the consumer's desire to
minimize the number of trips he makes to either facility. Sure, there
are times when you want to top off your gas tank before it gets really
low, but by and large we buy a tankful to save ourselves the hassle of
frequent visits to the station. I imagine it's the same with propane.

For that matter, it's true of all retail establishments. If you go into
a store to buy a lottery ticket, do you think the proprietor breaks even
on the nickel he gets for the transaction? Some purchases are losers,
from a strict accounting standpoint, but who would shop at a place that
insisted on a minimum order?

"Jim Yanik" wrote:
Oh,we went from exchange tanks to gasoline station pumps,to home propane
delivery.
Wow.

Welcome to usenet.

Jon

On May 23, 12:15*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
Saw this on another newsgroup.
Seems as though the big sellers of exchange tanks are not filling them all
the way now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090522/...g_on_propane_2

This is a really long thread, and I'm jumping in late, so maybe this
has already been covered.

I don't see the rip-of factor here. A few months ago, in a fit of
laziness and "I'm in a hurry" I went to the orange box and exchanged
an empty Blue Rhino tank for a full AmeriGas tank. It was clearly
marked on the AmeriGas tank that the tar weight was 17 lbs but that
the net weight was 15 lbs.

It doesn't matter whether the exchange cost me $15, $25 or $250, the
tank was marked with the weight of the contents and it was my choice
to buy it or not. How is the consumer getting ripped off if they have
all the information they need to make a decision?

On the other hand, I just came back from BJ's where I got a Blue Rhino
can filled for $13.99. I took it home and weigh it: 35 lbs. So
obviously I got my full 17 lbs (and a better deal) at BJ's than at the
orange box, but in both cases I knew what I was getting for my money.

Read the label, or the unit pricing info, and if you get what is
stated for the price marked, you didn't get ripped off.

Robert Neville wrote:

-snip-
Easily solved by having a spare tank and rotating them, but how many people do
that?

I don't know- but I'm always amazed at folks who own a $2000 BBQ &
balk at a $20 tank to swap out.

I like charcoal myself- but I keep a few tanks around for torches,
heaters and such.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
Robert Neville wrote:

-snip-
Easily solved by having a spare tank and rotating them, but how many
people do
that?

I don't know- but I'm always amazed at folks who own a $2000 BBQ &
balk at a $20 tank to swap out.

I like charcoal myself- but I keep a few tanks around for torches,
heaters and such.

No one complained about the price so much, but I don't like getting screwed
or deceived for even a penny.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
No one complained about the price so much, but I don't like getting
screwed or deceived for even a penny.

Had a kid at the local auto parts store overcharge me eighty cents on a six
dollar purchase. When I brought it to his attention, he became very
offended that I would waste his time for such a paltry sum.

I brought it up with the store manager the next time I was in there, an
older fellow who had been with the store better than 20 years. He told me
it was too bad, but if they replaced that kid, the next one would be just as
bad, if not worse.

This is the world we live in.

Jon

On Sun 24 May 2009 05:20:14a, Ed Pawlowski told us...


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message

If you're talking about the standard tank use for gas grills, there's a
glut of them for sale at any big box store in this area, and any filling
facility will fill them with no problem.


To clarify, I meant the larger stationary tanks used at the home for
heating, cooking, etc.




Sorry, Ed, I misunderstood.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, the tiger will love you. There is no sincerer love than the
love of food. ~George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

If you are talking about milk, it is more the production and delivery
system, than the shelf frontage. Those cute plastic cubes everyone likes
to have follow them home, fit 4 gallons perfectly. The racks on the truck
fit the plastic cubes, etc.

Sorry I wasn't more clear Ed. My inquiry was about cereals.

This is part of a reply from Del Monte Foods Consumer Affairs concerning
StarKist Tuna:

"Our decision to reduce the net weight of many of our StarKist Tuna products
was not an easy one to make. Over the past several years, the cost of
tuna - by far our largest single ingredient - has reached the highest level
in history and, unfortunately, is not expected to decline. Along with all
consumer packaged goods companies, we are seeing much steeper costs in
virtually all ingredients and packaging materials. And while all of us are
feeling the pain of higher fuel costs at home, this situation is also having
a major impact on food manufacturers. For our canned products, it may be
helpful to know that the reduction in the amount of the tuna is actually
quite small. In most cases, we've taken out more of the liquid ingredients
(such as water, oil, vegetable broth) than tuna. Also our 3 ounce and 12
ounce can sizes have not changed.
Leading up to this decision, we challenged ourselves to reduce costs and
improve the sustainability of our products by reducing waste in every aspect
of our business. By lowering net weights and reducing packaging, we save
two million gallons of water a year and a significant amount of fuel and
transportation costs (equal to a reduction of two million miles). These
changes were necessary so that we can continue to offer our products at a
reasonable price."

How does the above reply answer my question of them as to why the size was
reduced, with the price remaining the same? (Not to mention the current 50%
lower cost of fuel.)

Joe Arnold
Still ****ed with being judged a fool.

"1D10T" wrote in message
...

Sorry aem, didn't mead Ed.

Think of all the gasoline you'll save, going to the store.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
One fellow I know did just that. Put in a gas line to his
outdoor grill. That's fine as long as the natural gas is
working. Which is essentially all the time.


Great idea. I can have it done for about $25,000 or so.

"Jon Danniken" wrote in
:

"Jim Yanik" wrote:
Oh,we went from exchange tanks to gasoline station pumps,to home propane
delivery.
Wow.

Welcome to usenet.

Jon




it's interesting how the threads drift OT....
but hard to keep up with,especially when someone top posts.

Which ISNT Usenet convention.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
Karla wrote in :

wrote:
On Sun, 24 May 2009 10:19:37 -0400, Karla wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2009 19:39:29 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 23 May 2009 10:52:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I might take my propane tanks to the local fill place, where
they provide an honest fill.
Try to find one that charges you by the unit instead of a flat rate.
No reason they can't top up a 20 lb tank that has 5 lb in it and
charge you for 15 lb.

THAT is a ripoff.
No, it isn't. The filling of individual propane tanks at retail also
involves labor, which is about the same regardless of how much gas you
put in the tank.
As has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the labor of full serve
gasoline is about the same regardless of how much gas is put into the
tank. Yet somehow, gasoline stations don't get away with charging a
fixed full price for a partial fill.


Entirely different situation that has absolutely no bearing. ZILCH.
Of course it does. Earlier in the thread somebody claimed that the
propane industry is in the right for charging for a full tank even if
only a fraction is pumped, due to the "labor cost" of having someone
fill the tank. A full service gasoline station also incurs "labor cost"
of having someone fill the tank, yet they still only charge for the
amount of fuel dispensed.


often there's a higher charge for full-service.
(they get you somewhere...)
That's why there are few full service stations in the states that don't
force it.
I believe they even had to pass a law requiring one FS pump for handicapped
people.(at least FL has one)

Near me there are stations that only sell full service and are
competitive with only self service. In the winter, that's a lot of
business opportunity for the full service. The difference between full
and self is moot with respect to propane, since all propane sales are
"full service."

wrote:
On Sun, 24 May 2009 12:26:18 -0400, Karla wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 24 May 2009 10:19:37 -0400, Karla wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2009 19:39:29 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 23 May 2009 10:52:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I might take my propane tanks to the local fill place, where
they provide an honest fill.
Try to find one that charges you by the unit instead of a flat rate.
No reason they can't top up a 20 lb tank that has 5 lb in it and
charge you for 15 lb.

THAT is a ripoff.
No, it isn't. The filling of individual propane tanks at retail also
involves labor, which is about the same regardless of how much gas you
put in the tank.
As has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the labor of full serve
gasoline is about the same regardless of how much gas is put into the
tank. Yet somehow, gasoline stations don't get away with charging a
fixed full price for a partial fill.


Entirely different situation that has absolutely no bearing. ZILCH.
Of course it does. Earlier in the thread somebody claimed that the
propane industry is in the right for charging for a full tank even if
only a fraction is pumped, due to the "labor cost" of having someone
fill the tank. A full service gasoline station also incurs "labor cost"
of having someone fill the tank, yet they still only charge for the
amount of fuel dispensed.

Incorrect, again.

Not only am I correct, I explained my position and why I am correct.
Unfortunately for you, blindly claiming something is incorrect does not
make it so.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:

Saw this on another newsgroup.
Seems as though the big sellers of exchange tanks are not filling them
all the way now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090522/...ng_on_propane_
2



all sorts of products have been downsized lately.
You have to check everything.

OTOH, my laundry detergent got *more* concentrated, by 2:1. When gas
went up, the company decided to stop shipping so much water. Of course
the price went up, but this was one that really seemed like a win-win to
me.

Of course if the manufacturer was *really* interested in just saving
packaging cost, they would have kept the old container size when they
went to the 2:1 concentrated formula. Then they would have cut their
packaging costs (and post consumer waste) in half.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

The problem comes in with regular customers

I'm a regular customer...been buying propane for a long, long time.
They didn't fool me.

no notice of a change in weight was posted

Hmm...maybe I got a very special tank of AmeriGas 'cuz it is clearly
posted on the label. It's sitting on my deck next to my grill. Stop
over and take a look. I might even throw a steak on the grill for you.

Fact is, 99.9% of people that have been buying full tanks for the
past 20 or 40 years don't look at the net weight every time they buy.

I don't doubt the marking at all. You are one of the very few that
actually looks at that. Most people have no clue aside from the fact it is a
"20 pound" tank.



And for that reason the store has to post a change in the net weight?
Where? Should they take an ad out in the paper? Should they get on the
local news? Should they post a big sign over the metal bin that holds
the propane saying "Attention! You are only getting 15 lbs for your
$20, not 17 like you used to."?


Can you imagine the labor it would take if the buying public had to be
notified with a sign or notice every time an item that used to be
"this" is now "that"? That's what labels and unit pricing tags are
for. Be an educated consumer and do your homework.

When prices drop, they have plenty of signs reading "New-- Lower Price" in
big letters Same can be done with higher price if they wanted to.



but they don't put 120 ounces of milk in a 128 ounce container

But they *can* as long as they mark it as such. I have certainly seen
containers that are not as full as they used to be, but the label told
me how much I was getting and how much I was paying for that amount.

Oh wait, I got a better idea. Let's have them re-tool the propane tank
factories to make the tanks smaller. That way a tank with 15 lbs in it
will be full. Of course, they'll have to raise the price even higher
to cover the cost of re-tooling and manufacturing all the new tanks,
but at least the tanks will be full. Will that make you happy?

They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items. Can be
done. I'd rather p ay the higher price and keep containers the same and make
less trips. There is a definite cost to the lower price as the product does
not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.

On May 24, 11:27*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

The problem comes in with regular customers

I'm a regular customer...been buying propane for a long, long time.
They didn't fool me.

no notice of a change in weight was posted

Hmm...maybe I got a very special tank of AmeriGas 'cuz it is clearly
posted on the label. It's sitting on my deck next to my grill. Stop
over and take a look. I might even throw a steak on the grill for you.

Fact is, 99.9% of people that have been buying full tanks for the
past 20 or 40 years don't look at the net weight every time they buy.

* * I don't doubt the marking at all. *You are one of the very few that
actually looks at that. Most people have no clue aside from the fact it is a
"20 pound" tank.

Then why did you say "The tanks size was not changed and no notice of
a change in weight was posted."?

Do you want them the label the tanks as "15 lbs, used to be 17"? or
"The tank formally known as 17"?


And for that reason the store has to post a change in the net weight?
Where? Should they take an ad out in the paper? Should they get on the
local news? Should they post a big sign over the metal bin that holds
the propane saying "Attention! You are only getting 15 lbs for your
$20, not 17 like you used to."?
Can you imagine the labor it would take if the buying public had to be
notified with a sign or notice every time an item that used to be
"this" is now "that"? That's what labels and unit pricing tags are
for. *Be an educated consumer and do your homework.

When prices drop, they have plenty of signs reading "New-- Lower Price" in
big letters *Same can be done with higher price if they wanted to.

Right, but why would they want to?


but they don't put 120 ounces of milk in a 128 ounce container

But they *can* as long as they mark it as such. I have certainly seen
containers that are not as full as they used to be, but the label told
me how much I was getting and how much I was paying for that amount.
Oh wait, I got a better idea. Let's have them re-tool the propane tank
factories to make the tanks smaller. That way a tank with 15 lbs in it
will be full. Of course, they'll have to raise the price even higher
to cover the cost of re-tooling and manufacturing all the new tanks,
but at least the tanks will be full. Will that make you happy?

They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items. Can be
done.

You don't refill ice cream containers or tuna cans. They are always
made new. I'm not a manufacturing engineer, but I'm pretty sure that
retooling for ice cream containers and tuna cans is a lot cheaper than
retooling for propane tanks and having to pull all of the existing
ones off the market. In addition, I'm sure we're paying for the
retooling of the ice cream container and tuna can lines. You should be
*thanking* them for not making 15 lb tanks. It's keeps the cost down.

I'd rather pay the higher price and keep containers the same and make
less trips. There is a definite cost to the lower price as the product does
not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.

That's a totally different discussion. The fact that you would be
willing to pay the higher cost doesn't mean that you're getting
"ripped off" if they put 15 lbs in a container that can hold 17 - and
mark it as such.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

But they *can* as long as they mark it as such. I have certainly seen
containers that are not as full as they used to be, but the label told
me how much I was getting and how much I was paying for that amount.

Oh wait, I got a better idea. Let's have them re-tool the propane tank
factories to make the tanks smaller. That way a tank with 15 lbs in it
will be full. Of course, they'll have to raise the price even higher
to cover the cost of re-tooling and manufacturing all the new tanks,
but at least the tanks will be full. Will that make you happy?

They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items.
Can be done. I'd rather p ay the higher price and keep containers the
same and make less trips. There is a definite cost to the lower price
as the product does not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.


Containers where the customer can see the product tend to get resized to
meet the newly downsized weight/volume,or where the customer views the
product level inside the container as "too low",but stuff like metal
propane tanks would not get resized,the change is too small and not readily
visible to the customer.



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Sun, 24 May 2009 20:45:33 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On May 24, 10:45*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On May 23, 7:39 pm, wrote:

On Sat, 23 May 2009 10:52:40 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
I might take my propane tanks to the local fill place, where
they provide an honest fill.

Try to find one that charges you by the unit instead of a flat rate.
No reason they can't top up a 20 lb tank that has 5 lb in it and
charge you for 15 lb.

THAT is a ripoff.

Try to find one that charges you by the unit instead of a flat
rate.

I'm not sure how they do it these days, but I stopped going to my
local U-Haul *because* they switched to charging by the unit.

I never top off my tanks. I have a spare "20 pounder" and always go
for a full fill or an exchange. I used to go to a local U-Haul 'cuz
they had the best price for a full fill. Then one day I went in and
they told me they were no longer allowed to charge me for a full tank
unless they actually dispensed a full tank. I had to go in, wait for
an attendant to become available, get the tank filled and then go back
in and wait for a cashier to ring up the exact amount that was
dispensed. No more pre-pay, fill-up and I'm on my way.

It only took 1 time of having to wait until someone when through all
the crap you have to go through to rent a truck before I could "order"
my propane, then wait for some other employee to become available to
fill it, then go back in and wait until someone else when through all
the crap you have to go through to rent a truck before I could pay for
my full tank, for me say "no-way, the hassle is not worth the lower
price."

*******************

Be careful on letting tanks go completely empty. *They'res some charge for
"purging" them.

Steve

I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run
empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty.

Ther only time the tank needs to be purged is when it has been filled
with something other than propane. New tanks have been filled with air
for pressure testing.

On 25 May 2009 11:44:23 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

But they *can* as long as they mark it as such. I have certainly seen
containers that are not as full as they used to be, but the label told
me how much I was getting and how much I was paying for that amount.

Oh wait, I got a better idea. Let's have them re-tool the propane tank
factories to make the tanks smaller. That way a tank with 15 lbs in it
will be full. Of course, they'll have to raise the price even higher
to cover the cost of re-tooling and manufacturing all the new tanks,
but at least the tanks will be full. Will that make you happy?

They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items.
Can be done. I'd rather p ay the higher price and keep containers the
same and make less trips. There is a definite cost to the lower price
as the product does not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.


Containers where the customer can see the product tend to get resized to
meet the newly downsized weight/volume,or where the customer views the
product level inside the container as "too low",but stuff like metal
propane tanks would not get resized,the change is too small and not readily
visible to the customer.


My all time favorite ripoff is when a manufacturere puts a bright
yellow band over the top 25% of the can proclaiming, "10% MORE FOR
FREE"

On May 25, 8:20*am, wrote:
On 25 May 2009 11:44:23 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

But they *can* as long as they mark it as such. I have certainly seen
containers that are not as full as they used to be, but the label told
me how much I was getting and how much I was paying for that amount.

Oh wait, I got a better idea. Let's have them re-tool the propane tank
factories to make the tanks smaller. That way a tank with 15 lbs in it
will be full. Of course, they'll have to raise the price even higher
to cover the cost of re-tooling and manufacturing all the new tanks,
but at least the tanks will be full. Will that make you happy?

They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items.
Can be done. I'd rather p ay the higher price and keep containers the
same and make less trips. *There is a definite cost to the lower price
as the product does not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.

Containers where the customer can see the product tend to get resized to
meet the newly downsized weight/volume,or where the customer views the
product level inside the container as "too low",but stuff like metal
propane tanks would not get resized,the change is too small and not readily
visible to the customer.

My all time favorite ripoff is when a manufacturere puts a bright
yellow band over the top 25% of the can proclaiming, "10% MORE FOR
FREE"

Please explain why this is a rip-off.

SteveB wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message
...
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 23 May 2009 09:58:42p, SteveB told us...

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
Saw this on another newsgroup.
Seems as though the big sellers of exchange tanks are not filling them
all the way now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090522/...g_on_propane_2
Why would anyone want to take them in and exchange them in the first
place? Take them to a refiller yourself and pocket the money.

Steve


Exactly!

Tanks do have a finite life and I believe testing is required every 5-10
years so I did not feel as ripped off when I got rid of old rusty tank but
will definitely go to refiller next time.

There is a convenience factor in the HD exchange as you can drive up, dyi
with credit card and it only takes a few minutes. This versus going to
the Shell mart and trying to get someone to fill the tank while people are
buying cigarettes and sandwiches

There's also a big difference between $20 and $40.


Tank exchange was $20 - somewhat over $5/gal for the propane.
Looking at old rusty tank on grill now, I'll probably exchange that one
too and thereafter go to the refill station.

What has me and probably everyone else ****ed is the way they sneaked
this in. 5 gal tank, you'd think you would get 5 gal back. They
clearly show weight they give you on label but how many of us look at
these things and how many people know that propane weighs about 4
lb/gal? That's the rip off.

On Mon, 25 May 2009 05:38:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On May 25, 8:20*am, wrote:
On 25 May 2009 11:44:23 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

But they *can* as long as they mark it as such. I have certainly seen
containers that are not as full as they used to be, but the label told
me how much I was getting and how much I was paying for that amount.

Oh wait, I got a better idea. Let's have them re-tool the propane tank
factories to make the tanks smaller. That way a tank with 15 lbs in it
will be full. Of course, they'll have to raise the price even higher
to cover the cost of re-tooling and manufacturing all the new tanks,
but at least the tanks will be full. Will that make you happy?

They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items.
Can be done. I'd rather p ay the higher price and keep containers the
same and make less trips. *There is a definite cost to the lower price
as the product does not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.

Containers where the customer can see the product tend to get resized to
meet the newly downsized weight/volume,or where the customer views the
product level inside the container as "too low",but stuff like metal
propane tanks would not get resized,the change is too small and not readily
visible to the customer.

My all time favorite ripoff is when a manufacturere puts a bright
yellow band over the top 25% of the can proclaiming, "10% MORE FOR
FREE"

Please explain why this is a rip-off.

You really need an explanation? Okay. The yellow band is suggesting
that it is marking how much extra product you are getting. It suggests
a much bigger bonus than the actual amount.

"DerbyDad03" wrote

I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run
empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty.

*********

I have never been charged, either, but have been reminded several times not
to let it go completely dry, or they have to do something special.

Steve

On May 25, 10:55*am, "SteveB" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run
empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty.

*********

I have never been charged, either, but have been reminded several times not
to let it go completely dry, or they have to do something special.

Steve

I'd sure like to know what you've been told 'cuz as I've said, for
decades I've been running mine until the grill flames die, and no one
- not BJ's, U-Haul, the local rent-all places or anyone else that
fills propane tanks has ever said anything to me.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On May 25, 7:08 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On May 25, 10:55 am, "SteveB" wrote:

"DerbyDad03" wrote

I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run
empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty.

*********

I have never been charged, either, but have been reminded several times
not
to let it go completely dry, or they have to do something special.

Steve

I'd sure like to know what you've been told 'cuz as I've said, for
decades I've been running mine until the grill flames die, and no one
- not BJ's, U-Haul, the local rent-all places or anyone else that
fills propane tanks has ever said anything to me.

******

Okay. It went something like this:

If you bring in a tank that has absolutely no pressure, that means we have
to purge the air out because it may have some humidity in there. We're not
going to charge you this time, so please at least be sure to close the
valve. Maybe they were fussing because I brought in a tank with an open
valve.



You speak as if just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it
hasn't happened to someone somewhere.

Actually, you read what I write and interpret how I speak.

I never implied - nor meant to imply - that you weren't told what you
said you were told. I simply stated that no entity has ever told me
not to empty my tank before bringing it in to be refilled. In fact, I
even said "assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is
empty" - meaning perhaps my tanks weren't empty so purging wasn't
required.

I then asked what you were told - out of curiosity, not doubt -
because, as I stated, I've had my tanks filled at numerous and varied
places and the subject has never came up.


I've had heart surgery and broke my back. Has that happened to you?

No, but when I was a teenager I had my nose surgically put back into
place after someone used a belt buckle on it, and I've had my bicep
tendon reattached to my elbow - just a few months ago in fact.

I'm glad you survived your heart attack.

*****

So, bottom line, it just depends on the geek behind the counter. When they
were changing the tanks for OPDs, there was almost a no questions asked
attitude. Other people here have stated, and I confess to taking in tanks
that I knew were very old, yet they changed them out to get the repeat
business. Then, I'm almost sure that you have run into the opposite side of
the coin, wanting everything except a blood sample before they will refill
your tank.

I vote with my money. I don't come back. And if it is an issue that I
won't be back over, I am sure to let the manager know why.

YMMV

Steve

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , Karla
wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

OTOH, my laundry detergent got *more* concentrated, by 2:1. When gas
went up, the company decided to stop shipping so much water. Of course
the price went up, but this was one that really seemed like a win-win to
me.
Of course if the manufacturer was *really* interested in just saving
packaging cost, they would have kept the old container size when they
went to the 2:1 concentrated formula. Then they would have cut their
packaging costs (and post consumer waste) in half.

Laundry detergent has always come in a variety of sizes, so I'm not
following your point.

Of course it has. I'm specifically thinking of the large econo size
jugs, generally the largest you can by at a discount store or Costco.
With the newer "improved" double concentration detergent, they reduced
the size of the largest containers due to the "improvement for
consumers." If they still allowed consumers to purchase the new double
formula in the same old larger containers, they would have decreased
packaging costs by exactly half. Instead they reduced it by a lesser
amount, providing less of this so called benefit.

In article , Karla
wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , Karla
wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

OTOH, my laundry detergent got *more* concentrated, by 2:1. When gas
went up, the company decided to stop shipping so much water. Of course
the price went up, but this was one that really seemed like a win-win to
me.
Of course if the manufacturer was *really* interested in just saving
packaging cost, they would have kept the old container size when they
went to the 2:1 concentrated formula. Then they would have cut their
packaging costs (and post consumer waste) in half.

Laundry detergent has always come in a variety of sizes, so I'm not
following your point.

Of course it has. I'm specifically thinking of the large econo size
jugs, generally the largest you can by at a discount store or Costco.
With the newer "improved" double concentration detergent, they reduced
the size of the largest containers due to the "improvement for
consumers." If they still allowed consumers to purchase the new double
formula in the same old larger containers, they would have decreased
packaging costs by exactly half. Instead they reduced it by a lesser
amount, providing less of this so called benefit.

All right then. But, I don't think the savings of packaging was of
primary concern. I think the major concern was to stop asking the
consumer to pay to have water shipped to him, when gasoline had doubled
in cost. To me, that's a company being responsible and acting
intelligently.

I don't pay much attention to whether package sizes change, or what
prices are. I just buy what I need. I really don't care if coffee comes
in 13 oz. containers or 16 oz. containers, or whether the price per
container goes up or stays the same as a result. I know prices per unit
are going up, as a whole, across the board. And I know I'm going to keep
drinking coffee. I don't understand why people get so upset about this
stuff.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Snip
I don't understand why people get so upset about this stuff.

This whole packaging/refilling issue isn't about raising prices, it's about
the way they go about it. I'm not the ignorant SOB they seem to think I am.
How would you feel if gas pumps started dispensing 3-quart "gallons" at the
same price a full gallon was, without telling you?

On Mon, 25 May 2009 17:08:57 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On May 25, 10:55 am, "SteveB" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run
empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty.

*********

I have never been charged, either, but have been reminded several times
not
to let it go completely dry, or they have to do something special.

Steve

I'd sure like to know what you've been told 'cuz as I've said, for
decades I've been running mine until the grill flames die, and no one
- not BJ's, U-Haul, the local rent-all places or anyone else that
fills propane tanks has ever said anything to me.

******

Okay. It went something like this:

If you bring in a tank that has absolutely no pressure, that means we have
to purge the air out because it may have some humidity in there. We're not
going to charge you this time, so please at least be sure to close the
valve. Maybe they were fussing because I brought in a tank with an open
valve.

You speak as if just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it
hasn't happened to someone somewhere. I've had heart surgery and broke my
back. Has that happened to you? If it hasn't, is that grounds for you to
say that it never happens to anyone?

Steve


Your problem was not that you let the tank get empty. Your problem was
that you foolishly left the valve open. That valve should be closed
after EVERY use.

On 26 May 2009 00:56:17 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"SteveB" wrote in
news

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
.
.. On May 25, 10:55 am, "SteveB" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run
empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is
empty.

*********

I have never been charged, either, but have been reminded several
times not
to let it go completely dry, or they have to do something special.

Steve

I'd sure like to know what you've been told 'cuz as I've said, for
decades I've been running mine until the grill flames die, and no one
- not BJ's, U-Haul, the local rent-all places or anyone else that
fills propane tanks has ever said anything to me.

******

Okay. It went something like this:

If you bring in a tank that has absolutely no pressure, that means we
have to purge the air out because it may have some humidity in there.

Just because a tank runs out of propane does not mean air has entered the
tank.It just means the internal pressure(of propane) equals outside air
pressure.
The tank would have to have a lower pressure inside for air to enter.
That aint gonna happen.

It does if you leave the valve open!

The sun comes up, the sun goes down.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Snip

I don't understand why people get so upset about this stuff.

How about TV manufacturers adding "class" after the inch listing so they can
list a 31.5-inch screen as a 32-inch screen? Or Tyson changing their 5# bag
of chicken wings to 4#, when it actually weighs 3.8#, but labeling it with
quotation marks around the "4 Pounds". What the hell does that mean? - On
top of that, it's also injected with water and "all natural" chicken broth.
Do you like air whipped into your ice cream to increase its volume to better
fill the container?

1D10T wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Snip
I don't understand why people get so upset about this stuff.

This whole packaging/refilling issue isn't about raising prices, it's about
the way they go about it. I'm not the ignorant SOB they seem to think I am.
How would you feel if gas pumps started dispensing 3-quart "gallons" at the
same price a full gallon was, without telling you?


Well at least at one time they would run an insulting spin campaign.
Such as "our new super fuel is so good that you only need 3/4 as much to
go the same distance."

I remember when they started to shrink the 1 and 3 lb bags of coffee and
ran an insulting spin campaign that went along the lines of "due to our
new process you don't need to use as much...". I called and asked if the
new process was also used on the unground beans which were packed in the
same short filled bags and was offered a coupon for my "inconvenience".

Smitty Two wrote:

I don't understand why people get so upset about this
stuff.

In many cases, it has the air of a company trying to sneak a price increase by
without anyone noticing it. People who are upset would prefer that the company
leave the packaging size alone and just raise the price. Unfortunately,
companies know that there are certain price points at which consumers will stop
buying, so they look for ways to stay below that price point. Reducing the
package contents helps them do that. Keeping the package sizing the same (or at
least the width) helps maintain reatiler shelf real estate - something that is
hard fought over.

The strange thing is that packaging and distribution costs frequently dominate
the actual copst of the product, so reducing the content doesn't save all that
much. Still, when you ship missions of units a year, even pennies help.

"George" wrote in message
...

Snip

I remember when they started to shrink the 1 and 3 lb bags of coffee and
ran an insulting spin campaign that went along the lines of "due to our
new process you don't need to use as much...". I called and asked if the
new process was also used on the unground beans which were packed in the
same short filled bags and was offered a coupon for my "inconvenience".

Sounds like Bill Clinton was running their CR campaign.

In article ,
"1D10T" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Snip

I don't understand why people get so upset about this stuff.

How about TV manufacturers adding "class" after the inch listing so they can
list a 31.5-inch screen as a 32-inch screen? Or Tyson changing their 5# bag
of chicken wings to 4#, when it actually weighs 3.8#, but labeling it with
quotation marks around the "4 Pounds". What the hell does that mean? - On
top of that, it's also injected with water and "all natural" chicken broth.
Do you like air whipped into your ice cream to increase its volume to better
fill the container?

Well, TV screen sizes have always been exaggerated, and I don't eat a
lot of junk food like chicken and ice cream. I'm not suggesting that
deceptive advertising or labeling is OK, just that we all know that
inflation happens.

In article ,
"1D10T" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Snip
I don't understand why people get so upset about this stuff.

This whole packaging/refilling issue isn't about raising prices, it's about
the way they go about it. I'm not the ignorant SOB they seem to think I am.
How would you feel if gas pumps started dispensing 3-quart "gallons" at the
same price a full gallon was, without telling you?

I don't think that is going to happen, but if it does, I'll let you know
how I feel about it.

It isn't practical for retail, but I like the loyalty price concept.
When the woman who cuts my hair increases prices, it only applies to new
clients. The existing customers get grandfathered in. Massage is the
same. Gym used to be that way until they sold to another outfit. At work
we treat our customers like that; some of them haven't seen price
increases in ten years.

In article ,
George wrote:

Well at least at one time they would run an insulting spin campaign.
Such as "our new super fuel is so good that you only need 3/4 as much to
go the same distance."

A nearby big city newspaper used to peddle home subscriptions over the
phone. Standard reply to "I don't have time to read the paper" was "Oh,
but we've reformatted the paper into our new 'fast read' format."

In article ,
"1D10T" wrote:

How about TV manufacturers adding "class" after the inch listing so they
can
list a 31.5-inch screen as a 32-inch screen? Or Tyson changing their 5#
bag
of chicken wings to 4#, when it actually weighs 3.8#, but labeling it
with
quotation marks around the "4 Pounds". What the hell does that mean? - On
top of that, it's also injected with water and "all natural" chicken
broth.
Do you like air whipped into your ice cream to increase its volume to
better
fill the container?

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Well, TV screen sizes have always been exaggerated, and I don't eat a
lot of junk food like chicken and ice cream. I'm not suggesting that
deceptive advertising or labeling is OK, just that we all know that
inflation happens.

Inflation is not the issue. I can deal with that. Why can't they JUST RAISE
THE PRICES? We'll all grumble and bitch, but we'll also understand the
reason for higher prices. I wonder who started the shrink ray crap.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
A nearby big city newspaper used to peddle home subscriptions over the
phone. Standard reply to "I don't have time to read the paper" was "Oh,
but we've reformatted the paper into our new 'fast read' format."

Geez!

In article ,
"1D10T" wrote:


Inflation is not the issue. I can deal with that. Why can't they JUST RAISE
THE PRICES? We'll all grumble and bitch, but we'll also understand the
reason for higher prices. I wonder who started the shrink ray crap.

It would make an interesting story for the History Channel. The History
of Deceptive Packaging. One of my peeves is the size of the indent in
the bottom of the wine bottle.