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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought and
that I will be renting out. The old ceiling has been taken down and what is
left is the ceiling joists. It used to be a wood lath and plaster ceiling.
I can see where they used some strips of lath to pack out the uneven joists
when they first installed the original ceiling.

The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.

I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings is
to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between the
joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be flat.
Is that what contractors usually do?

The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested buying
steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a way so that
the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level, and even surface.
Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.

Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of situation?
I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here to see what others
think about this approach.

Thanks.


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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists


"RonABC" wrote in message
...
The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.

I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings
is to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between
the joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be
flat. Is that what contractors usually do?



A variation of 1/4" would not be noticed if you did nothing. All 2x
material has some crowning.

I can assure you that no one shims the board after it is hung.

I have never used steel studs for this but it should work.

How you go about this depends on how many joists are off. If most are low
and relatively level I would simply rip up some scrap plywood in 1/4, 3/8
and 1/2" thickness' to a width of 1.5" and secure the correct thickness to
the bottom of the high hangers until I had all the joists within a nominal
1/8" level plane.

The nails and screw used to hold the drywall in place will still have plenty
of bite into the old solid joist.

This method may take a bit more time but is easily done by one person using
scrap material.

Colbyt


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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

They wouldn't have to be steel. You can do the same thing with 2x4's.

OR you can run 1x2's perpendicular to the joists, shimming where necessary,
then screw the sheetrock to those. That's done a lot where the plaster is
left on a sagging ceiling to make the new false ceiling flat.

s

"RonABC" wrote in message
...
I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought and
that I will be renting out. The old ceiling has been taken down and what
is left is the ceiling joists. It used to be a wood lath and plaster
ceiling. I can see where they used some strips of lath to pack out the
uneven joists when they first installed the original ceiling.

The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.

I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings
is to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between
the joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be
flat. Is that what contractors usually do?

The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested buying
steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a way so that
the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level, and even
surface. Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.

Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of
situation? I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here to
see what others think about this approach.

Thanks.



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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

On Jan 7, 12:16*pm, "Colbyt" wrote:
"RonABC" wrote in message

...

The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. *I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.


I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings
is to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between
the joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be
flat. Is that what contractors usually do?


A variation of 1/4" would not be noticed if you did nothing. *All 2x
material has some crowning.

I can assure you that no one shims the board after it is hung.

I have never used steel studs for this but it should work.

How you go about this depends on how many joists are off. *If most are low
and relatively level I would simply rip up some scrap plywood in 1/4, 3/8
and 1/2" thickness' to a width of 1.5" and secure the correct thickness to
the bottom of the high hangers until I had all the joists within a nominal
1/8" level plane.

The nails and screw used to hold the drywall in place will still have plenty
of bite into the old solid joist.

This method may take a bit more time but is easily done by one person using
scrap material.

Colbyt


I agree with Colbyt and would be leary of using steel studs. Unless
they are different from the ones I have seen I can't imagine them
having the strength to prevent sagging. Maybe they make steel studs
just for this purpose...

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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

I would say 1x3s or steel hat channel perpendicular to existing
joists. then you can shim where they cross the joists and are
uneven. Will drop the ceiling less than an inch.

nate

On Jan 7, 1:20*pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote:
They wouldn't have to be steel. *You can do the same thing with 2x4's.

OR you can run 1x2's perpendicular to the joists, shimming where necessary,
then screw the sheetrock to those. *That's done a lot where the plaster is
left on a sagging ceiling to make the new false ceiling flat.

s

"RonABC" wrote in message

...



I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought and
that I will be renting out. *The old ceiling has been taken down and what
is left is the ceiling joists. *It used to be a wood lath and plaster
ceiling. I can see where they used some strips of lath to pack out the
uneven joists when they first installed the original ceiling.


The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. *I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.


I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings
is to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between
the joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be
flat. Is that what contractors usually do?


The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested buying
steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a way so that
the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level, and even
surface. Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.


Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of
situation? I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here to
see what others think about this approach.


Thanks.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -




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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

Thanks all. I just talked with the person who is going to do the work and
we are going to skip the idea of using steel studs. Instead, he'll pack out
the joists where needed as Colbyt suggested and then hang the drywall.

I'm glad I asked the question here. Something about sistering steel studs
along the existing joists didn't seem quite right to me. Maybe it would
work, but it certainly doesn't sound like a common practice. I know people
sometimes run 1x3's across the joists and shim where needed, but I didn't
want to do that either.

RonABC wrote:
I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought
and that I will be renting out. The old ceiling has been taken down
and what is left is the ceiling joists. It used to be a wood lath
and plaster ceiling. I can see where they used some strips of lath to
pack out the uneven joists when they first installed the original
ceiling.
The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as
much as half and inch difference between the various joists. I want
to have a new sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped
ceiling.
I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock
ceilings is to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any
spaces between the joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the
sheetrock will be flat. Is that what contractors usually do?

The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested
buying steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a
way so that the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level,
and even surface. Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.

Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of
situation? I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here
to see what others think about this approach.

Thanks.



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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists


RonABC wrote:

I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought and
that I will be renting out. The old ceiling has been taken down and what is
left is the ceiling joists. It used to be a wood lath and plaster ceiling.
I can see where they used some strips of lath to pack out the uneven joists
when they first installed the original ceiling.

The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.

I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings is
to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between the
joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be flat.
Is that what contractors usually do?

The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested buying
steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a way so that
the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level, and even surface.
Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.

Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of situation?
I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here to see what others
think about this approach.

Thanks.


Yes, the sistering steel studs to old uneven joists is a standard
technique I have seen and read from multiple sources. Contrary to what
someone else said, the variations *will* be very noticeable otherwise.
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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists


RonABC wrote:

Thanks all. I just talked with the person who is going to do the work and
we are going to skip the idea of using steel studs. Instead, he'll pack out
the joists where needed as Colbyt suggested and then hang the drywall.

I'm glad I asked the question here. Something about sistering steel studs
along the existing joists didn't seem quite right to me. Maybe it would
work, but it certainly doesn't sound like a common practice. I know people
sometimes run 1x3's across the joists and shim where needed, but I didn't
want to do that either.


It is standard practice, steel studs are straighter and lighter than
wood studs or strapping, and installing them is about 100X faster than
trying to shim out the existing joists. I believe I've seen the
technique written up in Fine Homebuilding and many other places.
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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

Pete C. wrote:

It is standard practice, steel studs are straighter and lighter than
wood studs or strapping, and installing them is about 100X faster than
trying to shim out the existing joists. I believe I've seen the
technique written up in Fine Homebuilding and many other places.


Well, that sure is interesting! Thanks.

I did a Google search and found the Fine Homebuilding article:


http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/h00121.asp






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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:57:07 -0500, "RonABC" wrote:

I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought and
that I will be renting out. The old ceiling has been taken down and what is
left is the ceiling joists. It used to be a wood lath and plaster ceiling.
I can see where they used some strips of lath to pack out the uneven joists
when they first installed the original ceiling.

The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.

I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings is
to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between the
joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be flat.
Is that what contractors usually do?

The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested buying
steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a way so that
the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level, and even surface.
Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.

Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of situation?
I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here to see what others
think about this approach.

Thanks.


You should have left the laths in place, but since you removed them,
you will have to use laths or strips of plywood to shim the high
joists. Using steel studs seems silly and costly when you can just
re-use some of the old laths, which you have many of. It's time
consuming, but it works. Be sure to use LONG drywall screws when you
install the sheetrock so you get into the actual joists and not just
the shims. Get yourself a long level and use a string to get them all
lined up. Or maybe a laser would help too.

Look at it this way. A lath is about 3/8" scrap paneling is about
1/8" 1/4" plywood is 1/4", etc. You can do all the shimming
yourself, then get the sheet rock guy to put up the drywall, and you
will save money.


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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists


"Jimw" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:57:07 -0500, "RonABC" wrote:

I am having the kitchen ceiling replaced in a old house that I bought and
that I will be renting out. The old ceiling has been taken down and what
is
left is the ceiling joists. It used to be a wood lath and plaster
ceiling.
I can see where they used some strips of lath to pack out the uneven
joists
when they first installed the original ceiling.

The ceiling joists are uneven -- not by a whole lot, but maybe as much as
half and inch difference between the various joists. I want to have a new
sheetrock ceiling put in and do not want a dropped ceiling.

I was assuming that the way people usually install new sheetrock ceilings
is
to raise the sheetrock up to the joists and pack out any spaces between
the
joists that are too high and the sheetrock so the sheetrock will be flat.
Is that what contractors usually do?

The guy I have who will probably put up the new ceiling suggested buying
steel studs and sistering them along the existing joists in a way so that
the bottoms of all of the steel studs form a flat, level, and even
surface.
Then mount the sheetrock to the steel studs.

Is that what contractors sometimes or usually do in this type of
situation?
I never heard of that before, so I thought I'd check here to see what
others
think about this approach.

Thanks.


You should have left the laths in place, but since you removed them,
you will have to use laths or strips of plywood to shim the high
joists. Using steel studs seems silly and costly when you can just
re-use some of the old laths, which you have many of. It's time
consuming, but it works. Be sure to use LONG drywall screws when you
install the sheetrock so you get into the actual joists and not just
the shims. Get yourself a long level and use a string to get them all
lined up. Or maybe a laser would help too.

Look at it this way. A lath is about 3/8" scrap paneling is about
1/8" 1/4" plywood is 1/4", etc. You can do all the shimming
yourself, then get the sheet rock guy to put up the drywall, and you
will save money.


What I do is run string from one end of the room to the other across the
joists shim where needed and strap with 1X3 strapping...All ceilings should
strapped , even new construction....

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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

On 1/7/2009 12:04 PM RonABC spake thus:

Thanks all. I just talked with the person who is going to do the work and
we are going to skip the idea of using steel studs. Instead, he'll pack out
the joists where needed as Colbyt suggested and then hang the drywall.


Small note: if you want to use the same terminology everyone else uses,
the term is "shim out", not "pack out". Bearings get packed; framing
members get shimmed.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire
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hardly.....

s


"benick" wrote in message
. ..
All ceilings should strapped , even new construction....



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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
hardly.....

s


"benick" wrote in message
. ..
All ceilings should strapped , even new construction....



True , you can half ass do it if you want....Nobody stopping you....

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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

On Jan 7, 3:49*pm, "RonABC" wrote:
Pete C. wrote:

It is standard practice, steel studs are straighter and lighter than
wood studs or strapping, and installing them is about 100X faster than
trying to shim out the existing joists. I believe I've seen the
technique written up in Fine Homebuilding and many other places.


Well, that sure is interesting! *Thanks.

I did a Google search and found the Fine Homebuilding article:

http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/h00121.asp


I'm surprised that it would work, but if Taunton says it will who am I
to disagree. But even in the pictures the portion of the steel studs
hanging below the joist look flimsy.

Even with Tauntons endorsement, I still like N8N's idea of running
shimmed hat channel perpendicular to the joists better.
http://www.steelnetwork.com/PrimeWall.aspx?Link_id=6



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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Small note: if you want to use the same terminology everyone else
uses, the term is "shim out", not "pack out". Bearings get packed;
framing members get shimmed.


Good to know. Shim it is. Thanks.


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Jimw wrote:

You should have left the laths in place, but since you removed them,
you will have to use laths or strips of plywood to shim the high
joists.


I did leave some of the laths in place and only took down the ones that came
down in the demo process. So, maybe part of the "packing" (oops, I mean
shimming :-) process is already done. I'll have to go back and check.

Using steel studs seems silly and costly when you can just
re-use some of the old laths, which you have many of. It's time
consuming, but it works. Be sure to use LONG drywall screws when you
install the sheetrock so you get into the actual joists and not just
the shims. Get yourself a long level and use a string to get them all
lined up. Or maybe a laser would help too.

Look at it this way. A lath is about 3/8" scrap paneling is about
1/8" 1/4" plywood is 1/4", etc. You can do all the shimming
yourself, then get the sheet rock guy to put up the drywall, and you
will save money.



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Default Sheetrock a ceiling with uneven joists

On Jan 7, 9:13*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
On Jan 7, 3:49*pm, "RonABC" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:


It is standard practice, steel studs are straighter and lighter than
wood studs or strapping, and installing them is about 100X faster than
trying to shim out the existing joists. I believe I've seen the
technique written up in Fine Homebuilding and many other places.


Well, that sure is interesting! *Thanks.


I did a Google search and found the Fine Homebuilding article:


http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/h00121.asp


I'm surprised that it would work, but if Taunton says it will who am I
to disagree. *But even in the pictures the portion of the steel studs
hanging below the joist look flimsy.

Even with Tauntons endorsement, I still like N8N's idea of running
shimmed hat channel perpendicular to the joists better.http://www.steelnetwork.com/PrimeWall.aspx?Link_id=6


"But even in the pictures the portion of the steel studs hanging
below the joist look flimsy"

If you hung off a heavy weight off of one part of one steel stud, it
would probably bend at that point.

Now hang a sheet of drywall across multiple studs, screwed in with the
proper spacing for the drywall you are using. There's no way for the
flanges to bend. In order for them to bend down, the drywall would
have to move laterally across the room. I don't think that's
physically possible once the drywall is attached.
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On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:37:52 -0500, "RonABC" wrote:

Jimw wrote:

You should have left the laths in place, but since you removed them,
you will have to use laths or strips of plywood to shim the high
joists.


I did leave some of the laths in place and only took down the ones that came
down in the demo process. So, maybe part of the "packing" (oops, I mean
shimming :-) process is already done. I'll have to go back and check.


Yes, you can just fill in gaps with the ones that came down. You dont
need them completely covering the ceiling, just so the joists are
covered so you can fasten the sheet rock well. Just be sure all the
plasted pieces are removed between them so you dont have them falling
on the sheetrock during installation and causing bumps. A shop vac
with extra long hose should help get rid of plaster. (2 vac hoses duct
taped together).

Jim

Using steel studs seems silly and costly when you can just
re-use some of the old laths, which you have many of. It's time
consuming, but it works. Be sure to use LONG drywall screws when you
install the sheetrock so you get into the actual joists and not just
the shims. Get yourself a long level and use a string to get them all
lined up. Or maybe a laser would help too.

Look at it this way. A lath is about 3/8" scrap paneling is about
1/8" 1/4" plywood is 1/4", etc. You can do all the shimming
yourself, then get the sheet rock guy to put up the drywall, and you
will save money.



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