Water heaters
 

Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

Water heaters
 

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:44:22 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

I'd say that the danger of damaging the water heater is slim.

But I wonder about your priorities. Shutting off the water to the
heater will limit water damage to 20-50 gallons or so if a leak should
develop while you're gone.

The pilot, however, is an open flame. It would definitely be an
unusual circumstance, but potentially devastating, if there was a gas
leak.

I'd be shutting off gas in my house before water if I was going to be
gone for a great length of time.

Jim

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 7:44�am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
� � Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

that should be safe, we routinely go on vacation and leave everything
on.

the chance of a tank leak with zero pressure should be low, and the
pilot so small a heat source it cant damage anything.

might be a good idea to firstr shut off water, then open both hot and
cold valves say in a sink a little to take pressure off everything,
then close those valves.

heck why worry if worse comes to worse homeowners insurane will pay
the damages.

while your away a kid could torch your home as a prank

a electrical malfunction could start a fire and level your home.

in the winter your furnace could fail and freeze everything, cracking
toilets and everything with a trap.

or someone could vandalize your home.

cant prevent everything, and worry to much can lead to health troubles
and early death.

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 8:21�am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:44:22 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

� �Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

I'd say that the danger of damaging the water heater is slim. � �

But I wonder about your priorities. � Shutting off the water to the
heater will limit water damage to 20-50 gallons or so if a leak should
develop while you're gone. �

The pilot, however, is an open flame. � �It would definitely be an
unusual circumstance, but potentially devastating, if there was a gas
leak.

I'd be shutting off gas in my house before water if I was going to be
gone for a great length of time. �

Jim

in the winter shutting off gas could mean no heat, and repeatedly
turning off main gas valve might lead to a valve leak.

trying to prevent everything leads to a endless spiral of worrisome
what iffs....

while the biggest danger is likely a traffic accident while your away:
(

personally getting hurt is way worse than any home disaster.......

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 6:44*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
* * Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

When I leave I shut the water main open a main drain and open all
faucets incase the heat goes out, I have 1/4 turn ball valves so it
all takes a few minutes and no water will freeze, with no pressure
your tank wont suddenly give away.

Water heaters
 

i think the important thing to do if shutting water off and leaving
pilot on is to turn the thermostat all the way down on the w-heater and
youll be ok.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Water heaters
 

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:


The pilot, however, is an open flame. It would definitely be an
unusual circumstance, but potentially devastating, if there was a gas
leak.

From 9+ years in the fire service (albeit 20+ years ago), my personal
preference for a gas leak occurring would be while I was on vacation.
Unless turning off the water will increase the likelihood of a gas leak,
I view the gas leak as a random event with much lower odds that it would
occur. For every gas leak explosion, there is probably 10 water heaters
that break. The odds are even higher if you focus only on water heaters
(and ignore the meters which tend to be high level offender, furnaces,
etc.).



I'd be shutting off gas in my house before water if I was going to be
gone for a great length of time.

This is just a couple weeks.

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 7:52*am, wrote:
* i think the important thing to do if shutting water off and leaving
pilot on is to turn the thermostat all the way down on the w-heater and
youll be ok.


That's the way I've been doing it for the last 10 years without
problems - water off and thermostat to minimum. BTW, I've come back
3-4 weeks later and the water temp is comfortably warm (not hot) -
thats a 40gal tank with a standard pilot and no input of cold water
during that time.
KC

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 7:44*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
* * Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

The only way I would do that is if you also turn the control to
"pilot" so that the heater doesn't kick on. Otherwise when the heater
kicks on and the valves are shut, it'll pressurize the tank and
possibly release the T/P valve, thus causing the exact problem you're
trying to avoid :)

Personally I would turn the heater to "pilot" and shut off ALL the
water to the house and drain it down that way if the furnace fails
while I'm gone it won't burst any pipes. I wouldn't be worried about
getting all the water out of the heater, *some* is good enough. I say
this because the last time my house was unoccupied for more than a day
or two my furnace apparently failed to light at some point during that
time period and I came home to a 45 degree house (I think I had the
thermostat set at 55) if it'd been below freezing, and I hadn't shut
the water off, it coulda been ugly. Of course that has never happened
since, Murphy's Law says that if a random, rare failure occurs it will
happen of course when you're not around to correct it.

nate

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 9:41*am, N8N wrote:

I came home to a 45 degree house (I think I had the
thermostat set at 55) if it'd been below freezing, and I hadn't shut
the water off, it coulda been ugly. *

nate

I drained my pipes and the water in the toilet tank, but didn't think
about the water in the toilet bowl. It had about 1 1/2" of ice in it
- luckily it didn't freeze solid and break the thing. That was a
lesson learned the 'easy' way.

KC

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 11:05�am, KC wrote:
On Dec 10, 9:41�am, N8N wrote:

I came home to a 45 degree house (I think I had the
thermostat set at 55) if it'd been below freezing, and I hadn't shut
the water off, it coulda been ugly. �

nate

I drained my pipes and the water in the toilet tank, but didn't think
about the water in the toilet bowl. �It had about 1 1/2" of ice in it
- luckily it didn't freeze solid and break the thing. �That was a
lesson learned the 'easy' way.

KC

theres tons of stuff that might be damaged in our home if it freezes,
water lines, sewer traps, water lines with low spots, bottled water,
chemicals and such in bottles, what about water trapped in
dishwashers, washing machines, and fridge ice makers? just to name a
few.........

worrying too much about stuff like this can lead to ill health and
early death, and then none of these trivial matters mean squat.

read where a homeowner turned his water off before leaving on a trip.
good safety move huh?

well some kids lit a small fire on the fellows wood porch, a neighbor
noticed the fire and attempted to put it out with the homeowners
garden hose, which obviously didnt work since all water was off:(

the fire got out of hand causing 50 grand in damages... that could of
easily been prevented if the homowner hadnt stressed about leaving his
home for the day and turning off the water.

you cant be perfectly safe:(

Water heaters
 

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:44:22 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

I'd say that the danger of damaging the water heater is slim.

But I wonder about your priorities. Shutting off the water to the
heater will limit water damage to 20-50 gallons or so if a leak should
develop while you're gone.

The pilot, however, is an open flame. It would definitely be an
unusual circumstance, but potentially devastating, if there was a gas
leak.

I'd be shutting off gas in my house before water if I was going to be
gone for a great length of time.

Jim


I'd be more concerned with the gas wasted running the pilot. It adds up
to a significant amount over time.

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 6:44*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
* * Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

You might be interested in these:

http://www.smarthome.com/7115H2/Wate...h-Valve/p.aspx

http://www.smarthome.com/71151/Washi...etector/p.aspx

http://www.smarthome.com/1284/Elk-Wa...lve-WSV/p.aspx


Or a whole house unit with vacation-mode that wont allow over a
certain pre-set GPM to flow while on vacation:

http://www.getfloodstop.com/category_s/5.htm

Kind of like an electrical fuse for water.

Water heaters
 

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:44:22 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?


Yes you can - just set the gas valve to the "away" or "pilot"
position. On a Unitrol gas valve there is a pilot position on the gas
control and a "vacation" setting on the thermostat (which is for all
intents and purposes "off".

Water heaters
 

leaving the pilot going is not only ok, it's recommended. it helps keep the
burner plenum and stack dry.

s

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
Can you turn off the water to a water heater and not turn off the
pilot. I have a water heater where you have to physically light the
pilot and it is a pain to restart when we get back from vacations
(especially when we get back in during the night). So, I was wondering,
any reason I can't turn off the water supply to the filled heater (so if
it goes bad the damage is limited) while keeping the pilot on?

Water heaters
 

"James Sweet" wrote in message
I'd be more concerned with the gas wasted running the pilot. It adds up to
a significant amount over time.

How much is really wasted? If the house is occupied, the pilot just helps
to keep the water hot between uses.

Water heaters
 

i hope you're trying to be funny. You could run a pilot light for a year on
about a dime. You're certainly not going over the gas companies minimum
with one.

s


"James Sweet" wrote in message
...



I'd be more concerned with the gas wasted running the pilot. It adds up to
a significant amount over time.

Water heaters
 

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
i hope you're trying to be funny. You could run a pilot light for a year on
about a dime. You're certainly not going over the gas companies minimum
with one.

s



I've seen quotes of 5-15 therms per month, I don't know if this has been
reduced significantly on modern equipment but at $1.30 or so per therm
that I pay that works out to at least $78 per year, which is
considerably more than "about a dime"! Is this accurate? I don't know,
I'd love to see some solid modern data, but there's a reason standing
pilots were banned on most gas fired appliances, water heaters being the
exception given that the pilot heat is not really wasted as it goes
towards keeping the water hot, but we're talking about shutting down a
dormant water heater in which case the water doesn't need to be kept hot.

Water heaters
 

"James Sweet" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker DLT wrote:
i hope you're trying to be funny. You could run a pilot light for a year
on about a dime. You're certainly not going over the gas companies
minimum with one.

s


I've seen quotes of 5-15 therms per month, I don't know if this has been
reduced significantly on modern equipment but at $1.30 or so per therm
that I pay that works out to at least $78 per year, which is considerably
more than "about a dime"! Is this accurate?

" The exact cost of operating the pilot light will depend on the design of
the heater and price of gas, but could range from $12 to $20 per year"

http://www.tankless-water-heater.net...aters-cost.htm

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 10:52�pm, "tom" wrote:
"James Sweet" wrote in message

...

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
i hope you're trying to be funny. �You could run a pilot light for a year
on about a dime. �You're certainly not going over the gas companies
minimum with one.

s

I've seen quotes of 5-15 therms per month, I don't know if this has been
reduced significantly on modern equipment but at $1.30 or so per therm
that I pay that works out to at least $78 per year, which is considerably
more than "about a dime"! Is this accurate?

" The exact cost of operating the pilot light will depend on the design of
the heater and price of gas, but could range from $12 to $20 per year"

http://www.tankless-water-heater.net...aters-cost.htm

newer water heaters have much smaller pilot light flames

Water heaters
 

In article , "tom" wrote:

"James Sweet" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker DLT wrote:
i hope you're trying to be funny. You could run a pilot light for a year
on about a dime. You're certainly not going over the gas companies
minimum with one.

s


I've seen quotes of 5-15 therms per month, I don't know if this has been
reduced significantly on modern equipment but at $1.30 or so per therm
that I pay that works out to at least $78 per year, which is considerably
more than "about a dime"! Is this accurate?

" The exact cost of operating the pilot light will depend on the design of
the heater and price of gas, but could range from $12 to $20 per year"

http://www.tankless-water-heater.net...aters-cost.htm

But we really aren't talking (1) the difference between tankless and
one with a tank--which is what this article is discussing and (2) the
savings of shutting down the pilot for a week. I can guarantee you that
the difference isn't all that much over a week to 10 days of vacation.

Water heaters
 

the reason was safety. the dum *******s that insisted on keeping a can of
gas next to their water heater caused this. Now they have combustible gas
detectors and sealed chambers with spark ignition. There's no way a pilot
uses ANY where near the amount of gas you were "quoted".

steve


"James Sweet" wrote in message
...


I've seen quotes of 5-15 therms per month, I don't know if this has been
reduced significantly on modern equipment but at $1.30 or so per therm
that I pay that works out to at least $78 per year, which is considerably
more than "about a dime"! Is this accurate? I don't know, I'd love to see
some solid modern data, but there's a reason standing pilots were banned
on most gas fired appliances, water heaters being the exception given that
the pilot heat is not really wasted as it goes towards keeping the water
hot, but we're talking about shutting down a dormant water heater in which
case the water doesn't need to be kept hot.

Water heaters
 

and that's coming from a company trying to sell a product. (a ****ty one
at that)


s


"tom" wrote in message ...


" The exact cost of operating the pilot light will depend on the design of
the heater and price of gas, but could range from $12 to $20 per year"

http://www.tankless-water-heater.net...aters-cost.htm

Water heaters
 

or even a year....


s


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...

But we really aren't talking (1) the difference between tankless and
one with a tank--which is what this article is discussing and (2) the
savings of shutting down the pilot for a week. I can guarantee you that
the difference isn't all that much over a week to 10 days of vacation.

Water heaters
 

On Dec 10, 10:36*am, "

the fire got out of hand causing 50 grand in damages... that could of
easily been prevented if the homowner hadnt stressed about leaving his
home for the day and turning off the water.

you cant be perfectly safe:(

Point well taken, however......
I left for a 3 day minivacation and a water line in the house broke.
10,000 gallons of water flooded the house while I was gone. Yeah, I
was paranoid and turned the water off everytime I left for about a
year. It takes time to get over those things.

KC

Water heaters
 

I've never had a disaster and I turn my water off every *every* time i leave
the house. Even if it's to go to the back 40 shooting range for an hour.
If you only used 10,000 gallons in a 3 day leak, it must have been a small
one. I used 18,000 when my garden hose blew up and we were gone for 23
hours. ('course i have 123 psi of pressure also, only on the frost free
garden hose outlet out in the yard) The house is regulated to about 63.

s


"KC" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 10:36 am, "

the fire got out of hand causing 50 grand in damages... that could of
easily been prevented if the homowner hadnt stressed about leaving his
home for the day and turning off the water.

you cant be perfectly safe:(

Point well taken, however......
I left for a 3 day minivacation and a water line in the house broke.
10,000 gallons of water flooded the house while I was gone. Yeah, I
was paranoid and turned the water off everytime I left for about a
year. It takes time to get over those things.

KC

Water heaters
 

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:37:22 -0600, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:

I've never had a disaster and I turn my water off every *every* time i leave
the house.

Regardless of who else might still be in the house? Or do you live
alone?

Water heaters
 

Well....... There's just the two of us. And i meant when there's not going
to be anyone there.

s


"KLS" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:37:22 -0600, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:

I've never had a disaster and I turn my water off every *every* time i
leave
the house.

Regardless of who else might still be in the house? Or do you live
alone?

Water heaters
 

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:42:03 -0800, James Sweet
wrote:

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
i hope you're trying to be funny. You could run a pilot light for a year on
about a dime. You're certainly not going over the gas companies minimum
with one.

s



I've seen quotes of 5-15 therms per month, I don't know if this has been
reduced significantly on modern equipment but at $1.30 or so per therm
that I pay that works out to at least $78 per year, which is
considerably more than "about a dime"! Is this accurate? I don't know,
I'd love to see some solid modern data, but there's a reason standing
pilots were banned on most gas fired appliances, water heaters being the
exception given that the pilot heat is not really wasted as it goes
towards keeping the water hot, but we're talking about shutting down a
dormant water heater in which case the water doesn't need to be kept hot.

I use an old gas range in my cottage that has FOUR standing piots.
During the summer months with no other gas being used, these pilots
didn't increase my gas bill over the minimum customer service charge.

Doug