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#1
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now this year it is giving me fits. It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket. I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get at any of the innards. Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'. I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it 'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'. BTW - the key is on. Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking' okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once? Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to complete a ground circuit. I'm confused. Thanks -GECKO |
#2
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
gecko wrote:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower (thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now this year it is giving me fits. It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket. I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get at any of the innards. Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'. I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it 'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'. BTW - the key is on. Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking' okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once? Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to complete a ground circuit. I'm confused. Thanks -GECKO You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio with air, compression, and spark. Does the compression feel normal when you pull the cord? Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed mixture? The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so, replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire. Did you muck up the carburetor adjustment? Depending on the motor, you normally screw in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust from there. The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run. |
#3
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:22:41 -0800, James Sweet
wrote: gecko wrote: I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower (thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now this year it is giving me fits. It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket. I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get at any of the innards. Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'. I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it 'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'. BTW - the key is on. Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking' okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once? Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to complete a ground circuit. I'm confused. Thanks -GECKO You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio with air, compression, and spark. Does the compression feel normal when you pull the cord? Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed mixture? The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so, replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire. Did you muck up the carburetor adjustment? Depending on the motor, you normally screw in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust from there. The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run. A sheared key on the flywheel will still give spark, but it won't run. Another common problem is a "wet" float. The rass float cracks, or wears through, and fills with gas, making the float level too high, flooding the engine. Shut off the gas, crank it over with the choke on to draw out fuel from the carb, pull the plug and using a long "butane match" clear the cyl. Stand well back, and turn the engine over slowly - it will Whoosh several times until it is dry. Warm the plug to be sure it is dry - re-install and try to start. Use a small shot of ether if necessary. If it fires now, you know you have a flooding problem. Pull the float and get a replacement. (i've soldered a few, but trust me, it is NOT worth the hassle unless you need the engine NOW and no parts supplier is open/available, |
#4
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:22:41 -0800, James Sweet
wrote: Thanks for response. Before I address what you said, I am wondering why the ether starting fluid will not ignite if there is spark (arc) at the spark plug. It just seems to me that regardless of anything else, if there is a spark at the plug (which I think there is), and there is ether, then i should at least get an ignition, if only for an instant. Do you agree? That bothers me the most about all this. I get no ignition whatsoever. The rest, fuel mixture, compression, voltage, flooding, would seem to me to not be involved when I am just dealing with some ether in the combustion chamber. Do you agree? You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio with air, compression, and spark. This could be I guess. But, remember, the ether will not ignite either. Does the compression feel normal when you pull the cord? Sure does. Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed mixture? Dunno. The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so, replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire. I didn't realize that. I guess this might be. Did you muck up the carburetor adjustment? No. Not that I know of anyway. Depending on the motor, you normally screw in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust from there. I I'll try this if nothing else works today. The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run. I wondered about its function. Will the spark plug 'arc' if the key is off? Just curious - because I think it did. Thanks again -GECKO |
#5
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
On Dec 9, 6:59*pm, gecko wrote:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower (thrower). *It has always started on the first pull every year. *Now this year it is giving me fits. It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket. I fixed both. *The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get at any of the innards. * Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. *I have tried squirting a little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'. I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. *I removed the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it 'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. *It did. *I squirted a little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and re-installed the spark plug. *It still not 'fire'. BTW - the key is on. Anyway, I am wondering. *Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking' okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once? Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? *IOW, could my problem be that the key-switch is no working? *It looks to act to complete a ground circuit. *I'm confused. Thanks -GECKO 86 so its had alot of use, maybe you flooded it with either, pull the plug and see if its wet also recheck the spark condition a weak yellow or red spark probably does not have the power to light fuel. I had a 4 cil car that started and idled but miss fired on acceleration, it was one bad plug wire that didnt give voltage under load enough to light gas. The Toro is starting rich with medium high load and needs a good spark. 23 yrs old alot of ignition components are weaker. If Compression is to low it will have a hard time lighting gas. Check spark strength and color and dont spray as much either, if still nothing its time to check it out completely. Even removing the 23yr old plug wire could have broken it, even a new plug can be bad as people drop them in the store, ive had a few bad new and I dropped one in the store searching for the right plug. |
#6
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:15:17 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote: 86 so its had alot of use, Yeh - my brother in upstate NY used it every winter. He moved to Maine and ought a big John Deere and so no longer need this little baby. He gave it to me three years ago, and although we here had little snow since then (in Delaware), I did start and run it successfully each year with no trouble. maybe you flooded it with either, pull the plug and see if its wet also recheck the spark condition a weak yellow or red spark probably does not have the power to light fuel. The spark plug is new and it gives off a blue arc. I had a 4 cil car that started and idled but miss fired on acceleration, it was one bad plug wire that didnt give voltage under load enough to light gas. The Toro is starting rich with medium high load and needs a good spark. 23 yrs old alot of ignition components are weaker. If Compression is to low it will have a hard time lighting gas. Check spark strength and color and dont spray as much either, if still nothing its time to check it out completely. Even removing the 23yr old plug wire could have broken it, even a new plug can be bad as people drop them in the store, ive had a few bad new and I dropped one in the store searching for the right plug. I may have used too much ether I guess. I thought it would at least ignite. Thanks -GECKO |
#7
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
I may have used too much ether I guess. I thought it would at least ignite. Thanks -GECKO Whether gasoline or starting fluid, if you put in too much it will flood and not fire. You need something resembling a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and air for it to burn. |
#8
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:20:28 -0500, gecko wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:22:41 -0800, James Sweet wrote: Thanks for response. Before I address what you said, I am wondering why the ether starting fluid will not ignite if there is spark (arc) at the spark plug. It just seems to me that regardless of anything else, if there is a spark at the plug (which I think there is), and there is ether, then i should at least get an ignition, if only for an instant. Do you agree? That bothers me the most about all this. I get no ignition whatsoever. The rest, fuel mixture, compression, voltage, flooding, would seem to me to not be involved when I am just dealing with some ether in the combustion chamber. Do you agree? If the plug is flooded, no amount of ether is going to light. For 2 reasons - 1) even ether needs adequate oxygen to burn. 20 a wet plug will not spark You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio with air, compression, and spark. This could be I guess. But, remember, the ether will not ignite either. Does the compression feel normal when you pull the cord? Sure does. Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed mixture? Dunno. The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so, replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire. I didn't realize that. I guess this might be. Did you muck up the carburetor adjustment? No. Not that I know of anyway. Depending on the motor, you normally screw in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust from there. I I'll try this if nothing else works today. The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run. I wondered about its function. Will the spark plug 'arc' if the key is off? Just curious - because I think it did. Thanks again -GECKO |
#9
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:51:11 -0800, James Sweet
wrote: Whether gasoline or starting fluid, if you put in too much it will flood and not fire. You need something resembling a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and air for it to burn. I never knew this. Thanks -GECKO |
#10
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
gecko ha scritto:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower (thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now this year it is giving me fits. It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket. I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get at any of the innards. Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'. I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it 'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'. BTW - the key is on. Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking' okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once? Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to complete a ground circuit. I'm confused. Thanks -GECKO -- Send from http://www.nonsolonews.net |
#11
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Trouble with TORO Snow Blower
gecko ha scritto:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower (thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now this year it is giving me fits. It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket. I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get at any of the innards. Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'. I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it 'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'. BTW - the key is on. Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking' okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once? Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to complete a ground circuit. I'm confused. Thanks -GECKO Gecko - How did you fix the gas leak? My toro ccr 2000 is leaking gas from the same area. I replaced the bowl gasket and the other gaskets on the bowl screw and replaced the gas line. It still leaks. It seems like there is a lot of gas left in the carb after I turn it off. Thanks. JP -- Send from http://www.nonsolonews.net |
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