I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now
this year it is giving me fits.

It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket.
I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have
ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get
at any of the innards.

Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a
little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'.
I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed
the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it
'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a
little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and
re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'.

BTW - the key is on.

Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking'
okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the
combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once?
Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my
problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to
complete a ground circuit. I'm confused.

Thanks

-GECKO

gecko wrote:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now
this year it is giving me fits.

It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket.
I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have
ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get
at any of the innards.

Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a
little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'.
I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed
the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it
'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a
little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and
re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'.

BTW - the key is on.

Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking'
okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the
combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once?
Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my
problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to
complete a ground circuit. I'm confused.

Thanks

-GECKO


You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio
with air, compression, and spark. Does the compression feel normal when
you pull the cord? Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed
mixture? The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher
than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so,
replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too
much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire. Did you muck
up the carburetor adjustment? Depending on the motor, you normally screw
in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and
shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust
from there.

The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it
connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no
spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:22:41 -0800, James Sweet
wrote:

gecko wrote:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now
this year it is giving me fits.

It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket.
I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have
ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get
at any of the innards.

Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a
little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'.
I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed
the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it
'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a
little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and
re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'.

BTW - the key is on.

Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking'
okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the
combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once?
Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my
problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to
complete a ground circuit. I'm confused.

Thanks

-GECKO


You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio
with air, compression, and spark. Does the compression feel normal when
you pull the cord? Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed
mixture? The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher
than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so,
replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too
much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire. Did you muck
up the carburetor adjustment? Depending on the motor, you normally screw
in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and
shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust
from there.

The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it
connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no
spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run.

A sheared key on the flywheel will still give spark, but it won't run.
Another common problem is a "wet" float. The rass float cracks, or
wears through, and fills with gas, making the float level too high,
flooding the engine.

Shut off the gas, crank it over with the choke on to draw out fuel
from the carb, pull the plug and using a long "butane match" clear the
cyl. Stand well back, and turn the engine over slowly - it will Whoosh
several times until it is dry. Warm the plug to be sure it is dry -
re-install and try to start. Use a small shot of ether if necessary.
If it fires now, you know you have a flooding problem.

Pull the float and get a replacement. (i've soldered a few, but trust
me, it is NOT worth the hassle unless you need the engine NOW and no
parts supplier is open/available,

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:22:41 -0800, James Sweet
wrote:

Thanks for response. Before I address what you said, I am wondering
why the ether starting fluid will not ignite if there is spark (arc)
at the spark plug. It just seems to me that regardless of anything
else, if there is a spark at the plug (which I think there is), and
there is ether, then i should at least get an ignition, if
only for an instant. Do you agree? That bothers me the most about
all this. I get no ignition whatsoever. The rest, fuel mixture,
compression, voltage, flooding, would seem to me to not be involved
when I am just dealing with some ether in the combustion chamber. Do
you agree?


You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio
with air, compression, and spark.

This could be I guess. But, remember, the ether will not ignite
either.

Does the compression feel normal when
you pull the cord?

Sure does.

Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed
mixture?

Dunno.

The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher
than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so,
replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too
much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire.

I didn't realize that. I guess this might be.

Did you muck
up the carburetor adjustment?

No. Not that I know of anyway.

Depending on the motor, you normally screw
in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and
shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust
from there.

I I'll try this if nothing else works today.

The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it
connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no
spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run.

I wondered about its function. Will the spark plug 'arc' if the key
is off? Just curious - because I think it did.

Thanks again

-GECKO

On Dec 9, 6:59*pm, gecko wrote:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). *It has always started on the first pull every year. *Now
this year it is giving me fits.

It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket.
I fixed both. *The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have
ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get
at any of the innards. *

Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. *I have tried squirting a
little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'.
I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. *I removed
the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it
'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. *It did. *I squirted a
little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and
re-installed the spark plug. *It still not 'fire'.

BTW - the key is on.

Anyway, I am wondering. *Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking'
okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the
combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once?
Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? *IOW, could my
problem be that the key-switch is no working? *It looks to act to
complete a ground circuit. *I'm confused.

Thanks

-GECKO

86 so its had alot of use, maybe you flooded it with either, pull the
plug and see if its wet also recheck the spark condition a weak yellow
or red spark probably does not have the power to light fuel. I had a 4
cil car that started and idled but miss fired on acceleration, it was
one bad plug wire that didnt give voltage under load enough to light
gas. The Toro is starting rich with medium high load and needs a good
spark. 23 yrs old alot of ignition components are weaker. If
Compression is to low it will have a hard time lighting gas. Check
spark strength and color and dont spray as much either, if still
nothing its time to check it out completely. Even removing the 23yr
old plug wire could have broken it, even a new plug can be bad as
people drop them in the store, ive had a few bad new and I dropped one
in the store searching for the right plug.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:15:17 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:


86 so its had alot of use,

Yeh - my brother in upstate NY used it every winter. He moved to
Maine and ought a big John Deere and so no longer need this little
baby. He gave it to me three years ago, and although we here had
little snow since then (in Delaware), I did start and run it
successfully each year with no trouble.


maybe you flooded it with either, pull the
plug and see if its wet also recheck the spark condition a weak yellow
or red spark probably does not have the power to light fuel.

The spark plug is new and it gives off a blue arc.

I had a 4
cil car that started and idled but miss fired on acceleration, it was
one bad plug wire that didnt give voltage under load enough to light
gas. The Toro is starting rich with medium high load and needs a good
spark. 23 yrs old alot of ignition components are weaker. If
Compression is to low it will have a hard time lighting gas. Check
spark strength and color and dont spray as much either, if still
nothing its time to check it out completely. Even removing the 23yr
old plug wire could have broken it, even a new plug can be bad as
people drop them in the store, ive had a few bad new and I dropped one
in the store searching for the right plug.

I may have used too much ether I guess. I thought it would at least
ignite.

Thanks
-GECKO

I may have used too much ether I guess. I thought it would at least
ignite.

Thanks
-GECKO



Whether gasoline or starting fluid, if you put in too much it will flood
and not fire. You need something resembling a stoichiometric mixture of
fuel and air for it to burn.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:20:28 -0500, gecko wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:22:41 -0800, James Sweet
wrote:

Thanks for response. Before I address what you said, I am wondering
why the ether starting fluid will not ignite if there is spark (arc)
at the spark plug. It just seems to me that regardless of anything
else, if there is a spark at the plug (which I think there is), and
there is ether, then i should at least get an ignition, if
only for an instant. Do you agree? That bothers me the most about
all this. I get no ignition whatsoever. The rest, fuel mixture,
compression, voltage, flooding, would seem to me to not be involved
when I am just dealing with some ether in the combustion chamber. Do
you agree?



If the plug is flooded, no amount of ether is going to light. For 2
reasons -
1) even ether needs adequate oxygen to burn.
20 a wet plug will not spark


You need three things for it to run. Fuel, in the correct mixture ratio
with air, compression, and spark.

This could be I guess. But, remember, the ether will not ignite
either.

Does the compression feel normal when
you pull the cord?

Sure does.

Is the spark strong enough to fire the compressed
mixture?

Dunno.

The voltage required in the pressurized cylinder is much higher
than in free air. At that age it may have points and a condenser, if so,
replace and adjust those, they're cheap. Lastly, if you are getting too
much fuel and flooding it, the starting fluid won't fire.

I didn't realize that. I guess this might be.

Did you muck
up the carburetor adjustment?

No. Not that I know of anyway.

Depending on the motor, you normally screw
in the needle valve fully, being careful not to over tighten and
shoulder it, then back it out either 1.5 or 3 turns, start, and adjust
from there.

I I'll try this if nothing else works today.

The keyswitch is simple, it grounds the primary of the magneto where it
connects to the points in order to kill the ignition. Ground that and no
spark, engine shuts off. Open circuit and it can run.

I wondered about its function. Will the spark plug 'arc' if the key
is off? Just curious - because I think it did.

Thanks again

-GECKO

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:51:11 -0800, James Sweet
wrote:


Whether gasoline or starting fluid, if you put in too much it will flood
and not fire. You need something resembling a stoichiometric mixture of
fuel and air for it to burn.


I never knew this. Thanks

-GECKO

gecko ha scritto:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now
this year it is giving me fits.

It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket.
I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have
ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get
at any of the innards.

Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a
little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'.
I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed
the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it
'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a
little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and
re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'.

BTW - the key is on.

Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking'
okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the
combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once?
Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my
problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to
complete a ground circuit. I'm confused.

Thanks

-GECKO

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gecko ha scritto:
I have a problematic 1986 TORO CCR 2000 model 38180 snow blower
(thrower). It has always started on the first pull every year. Now
this year it is giving me fits.

It had a gas leak around the gas intake hose and the fuel bowl gasket.
I fixed both. The TORO has to be the most frustrating machine I have
ever worked on - you have to fairly well dismantle the housing to get
at any of the innards.

Anyway, now the thing will not start at all. I have tried squirting a
little starting fluid into the intake, but the engine will not 'fire'.
I changed to a new spark plug - it still will not 'fire'. I removed
the new spark plug and connected it back so I could observe whether it
'sparked' when I pulled on the starter rope. It did. I squirted a
little starter fluid into the combustion chamber itself, and
re-installed the spark plug. It still not 'fire'.

BTW - the key is on.

Anyway, I am wondering. Since the spark plug seems to be 'sparking'
okay, why on earth doesn't the starter fluid I squirted into the
combustion chamber at least 'fire' the engine, even if only once?
Also, would all this happen even if the key is off? IOW, could my
problem be that the key-switch is no working? It looks to act to
complete a ground circuit. I'm confused.

Thanks

-GECKO

Gecko -

How did you fix the gas leak? My toro ccr 2000 is leaking gas from the same area. I replaced the bowl gasket and the other gaskets on the bowl screw and replaced the gas line. It still leaks. It seems like there is a lot of gas left in the carb after I turn it off. Thanks.

JP

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