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#41
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{OT} spread the wealth
Larry Caldwell, 11/8/2008,3:18:27 PM, wrote:
In article , lid (George) says... But the current events aren't normal ups and downs. Investors were participating in a rigged game without knowing it. Whenever you let someone play with other people's money, they become corrupt. It has happened before, and will happen again. The current drop in the stock market is actually pretty moderate compared with historic downturns. Of course, it may go lower. It probably will. What is unusual is the magnitude of the government intervention to prop up the banking system. The USA has effectively nationalized the whole banking system. Their stated plan is to sell it back to investors. We'll see. That won't happen any time soon. When was the last time the government gave up control of something the took over? |
#43
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{OT} spread the wealth
In article ,
Larry Caldwell wrote: In article , ) says... That is what they did with my FICA, now my SS is just part of that $10 TRILLION dollar debt. If you are counting social security, the debt is now $42 trillion. They don't count money owed to the SS trust fund as debt. Only in DC can you take a long term liability (the NON-MARKETABLE government securities that the SS "surplus" is legally mandated to placed) and miraculously turn it into a short term asset. Financial alchemy, yet people are calling for these guys to regulate banks???? |
#44
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{OT} spread the wealth
In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote: When was the last time the government gave up control of something the took over? Chrysler the first time? |
#45
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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
In article ,
Larry Caldwell wrote: http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/te...hilarducci.pdf This is her prepared statement, teh quote was from testimony. Two different things. Also, I got a kick out her saying that there was a long-term retirement crisis EXCEPT in Social Security. Sorta lost a lot of cred right there. |
#46
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{OT} spread the wealth
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#47
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{OT} spread the wealth
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , "badgolferman" wrote: When was the last time the government gave up control of something the took over? Chrysler the first time? I think Lee Iacocca had a lot to do with making that work. TDD |
#48
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{OT} spread the wealth
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#49
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{OT} spread the wealth
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#50
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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
Kurt Ullman:
Even the lead Boomers (according to the expectancy tables) have 20 years or more to catch up. Actually most of them, if they contributed every year are still much farther ahead than 3%. Even after the fall my IRA is still more than 10x what I put in over the years. The wonders of tax free compounding. I already stated I disagree with the plan, you don't have to convince me. |
#51
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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
badgolferman:
Voluntary? Please translate the below paragraphs for me to understand better: I read her actual proposal. If you're going to quote something, you need to source it. |
#52
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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
In article ,
Mac Cool wrote: Kurt Ullman: Even the lead Boomers (according to the expectancy tables) have 20 years or more to catch up. Actually most of them, if they contributed every year are still much farther ahead than 3%. Even after the fall my IRA is still more than 10x what I put in over the years. The wonders of tax free compounding. I already stated I disagree with the plan, you don't have to convince me. I was more talking to the peanut gallery (g), you just gave me the springboard. |
#53
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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
Larry Caldwell wrote:
In article , (badgolferman) says... Voluntary? Please translate the below paragraphs for me to understand better: "Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration." OK. Roughly translated it goes: "We are a lying sack of **** right wing propaganda organization dedicated to injecting fear into the populace in an effort to bring down the US government." If you want to read the actual testimony, it is short and direct. http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/te...hilarducci.pdf You will notice it has no resemblance to what the lying sack of **** right wing traitors said. As has been mentioned a prepared statement and how the actual question/answer session went will be entirely different. The truth is probably somewhere in between the two articles. I did notice in the link you provided the professor's short term plan was carefully worded to include words like "let workers trade in" and such. However the long term plan made no mention of voluntary GRAs and the return rates were paltry over the long term in relation to stock market options. The point is there will be no capital making its way into the economy through business, it will all be controlled by government bureacracies which will grow bigger and more inefficient over time, just as they are now. I freely admit much of this economic mumbo-jumbo is beyond my understanding but the basic concept of forced savings, no choices, free market anathema, increased government coffers doesn't sit well with me. I am not in favor of increased government control over the finances and lives of citizens and greatly resent the attitude of those who think they know more than us how to run our lives. Let government clean up their own spending habits before they take away our money for our own good. This plan is merely another method of redistribution of wealth and it is all about creating more power for government. -- "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." ~ Milton Friedman |
#54
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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote: I did notice in the link you provided the professor's short term plan was carefully worded to include words like "let workers trade in" and such. However the long term plan made no mention of voluntary GRAs and the return rates were paltry over the long term in relation to stock market options. The point is there will be no capital making its way into the economy through business, it will all be controlled by government bureacracies which will grow bigger and more inefficient over time, just as they are now. Actually it is even worse since these are to be populated with government bonds that will have to be paid back at 3% above inflation. Yet she studiously ignores HOW it is going to be paid back. Apparently this will have one other thing in common with Social Security, the money to repay these bonds is going to be conjured our of thin air. The hit to the economy when taxes are raised, money is printed, or the benefits screwed with will several orders of magnitude worse than merely no capital making its way into the economy. |
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