{OT} spread the wealth
 

Larry Caldwell, 11/8/2008,3:18:27 PM, wrote:

In article ,
lid (George) says...

But the current events aren't normal ups and downs. Investors were
participating in a rigged game without knowing it.

Whenever you let someone play with other people's money, they become
corrupt. It has happened before, and will happen again. The current
drop in the stock market is actually pretty moderate compared with
historic downturns. Of course, it may go lower. It probably will.

What is unusual is the magnitude of the government intervention to
prop up the banking system. The USA has effectively nationalized the
whole banking system. Their stated plan is to sell it back to
investors. We'll see. That won't happen any time soon.


When was the last time the government gave up control of something the
took over?

{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

In article ,
(badgolferman) says...
Voluntary? Please translate the below paragraphs for me to understand
better:

"Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci
proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and
similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’
retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed
Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security
Administration."

OK. Roughly translated it goes: "We are a lying sack of **** right
wing propaganda organization dedicated to injecting fear into the
populace in an effort to bring down the US government."

If you want to read the actual testimony, it is short and direct.

http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/te...hilarducci.pdf

You will notice it has no resemblance to what the lying sack of ****
right wing traitors said.


--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

{OT} spread the wealth
 

In article ,
Larry Caldwell wrote:

In article ,
) says...

That is what they did with my FICA, now my SS is just part of that $10
TRILLION dollar debt.

If you are counting social security, the debt is now $42 trillion. They
don't count money owed to the SS trust fund as debt.

Only in DC can you take a long term liability (the NON-MARKETABLE
government securities that the SS "surplus" is legally mandated to
placed) and miraculously turn it into a short term asset. Financial
alchemy, yet people are calling for these guys to regulate banks????

{OT} spread the wealth
 

In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote:


When was the last time the government gave up control of something the
took over?

Chrysler the first time?

{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

In article ,
Larry Caldwell wrote:

http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/te...hilarducci.pdf

This is her prepared statement, teh quote was from testimony. Two
different things. Also, I got a kick out her saying that there was a
long-term retirement crisis EXCEPT in Social Security. Sorta lost a lot
of cred right there.

{OT} spread the wealth
 

In article ,
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:57:40 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote:


When was the last time the government gave up control of something the
took over?

Chrysler the first time?

The government never took over Chrysler. It just guaranteed a loan
from private industry.

That's right, now that you mention it. Although I am not sure "take
over" is the right description here since they are getting preferred
stock with no voting rights, if I understand correctly. Always a concern
with governmental financial permutations.

{OT} spread the wealth
 

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote:

When was the last time the government gave up control of something the
took over?

Chrysler the first time?

I think Lee Iacocca had a lot to do with
making that work.

TDD

{OT} spread the wealth
 

In article ,
(badgolferman) says...

When was the last time the government gave up control of something the
took over?

About 15 years ago. They bought a bunch of savings and loans during the
S&L bailout, and put them back on the market during the Clinton
administration. This one is just a whole lot bigger. Maybe they could
sell the US banking system to the Chinese. At this point, they are the
only ones who could afford it.

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{OT} spread the wealth
 

In article ,
(Carmen Policy) says...

You obviously do not know how ARM's work. I seen the President Carter &
Clinton mentioned. I seriously doubt any loans from the Carter era are in
default, if they are any loans left. The ARMs are/were the problem.

ARMs didn't become common until the Reagan administration. During the
Carter administration, balloon payments were the big thing. A loan
would have low payments 1,3,5 or 10 years, then the whole principal came
due. It was a handy loan if you moved across the country, and wanted to
buy a house to live in before your old one sold. When house sales
collapsed, some people got caught, but not too many.

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{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

Kurt Ullman:

Even the lead Boomers (according to the expectancy tables) have 20
years or more to catch up. Actually most of them, if they contributed
every year are still much farther ahead than 3%. Even after the fall my
IRA is still more than 10x what I put in over the years. The wonders of
tax free compounding.

I already stated I disagree with the plan, you don't have to convince me.

{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

badgolferman:

Voluntary? Please translate the below paragraphs for me to understand
better:

I read her actual proposal. If you're going to quote something, you need
to source it.

{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

In article ,
Mac Cool wrote:

Kurt Ullman:

Even the lead Boomers (according to the expectancy tables) have 20
years or more to catch up. Actually most of them, if they contributed
every year are still much farther ahead than 3%. Even after the fall my
IRA is still more than 10x what I put in over the years. The wonders of
tax free compounding.

I already stated I disagree with the plan, you don't have to convince me.

I was more talking to the peanut gallery (g), you just gave me the
springboard.

{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

Larry Caldwell wrote:

In article ,
(badgolferman) says...
Voluntary? Please translate the below paragraphs for me to
understand better:

"Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor,
Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for
401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and
confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to
universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the
Social Security Administration."

OK. Roughly translated it goes: "We are a lying sack of **** right
wing propaganda organization dedicated to injecting fear into the
populace in an effort to bring down the US government."

If you want to read the actual testimony, it is short and direct.


http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/te...hilarducci.pdf

You will notice it has no resemblance to what the lying sack of ****
right wing traitors said.

As has been mentioned a prepared statement and how the actual
question/answer session went will be entirely different. The truth is
probably somewhere in between the two articles.

I did notice in the link you provided the professor's short term plan
was carefully worded to include words like "let workers trade in" and
such. However the long term plan made no mention of voluntary GRAs and
the return rates were paltry over the long term in relation to stock
market options. The point is there will be no capital making its way
into the economy through business, it will all be controlled by
government bureacracies which will grow bigger and more inefficient
over time, just as they are now.

I freely admit much of this economic mumbo-jumbo is beyond my
understanding but the basic concept of forced savings, no choices, free
market anathema, increased government coffers doesn't sit well with me.
I am not in favor of increased government control over the finances and
lives of citizens and greatly resent the attitude of those who think
they know more than us how to run our lives. Let government clean up
their own spending habits before they take away our money for our own
good. This plan is merely another method of redistribution of wealth
and it is all about creating more power for government.

--
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief
in freedom itself." ~ Milton Friedman

{OT} spread the wealth (oh noes the sky is falling)
 

In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote:

I did notice in the link you provided the professor's short term plan
was carefully worded to include words like "let workers trade in" and
such. However the long term plan made no mention of voluntary GRAs and
the return rates were paltry over the long term in relation to stock
market options. The point is there will be no capital making its way
into the economy through business, it will all be controlled by
government bureacracies which will grow bigger and more inefficient
over time, just as they are now.


Actually it is even worse since these are to be populated with
government bonds that will have to be paid back at 3% above inflation.
Yet she studiously ignores HOW it is going to be paid back. Apparently
this will have one other thing in common with Social Security, the money
to repay these bonds is going to be conjured our of thin air. The hit to
the economy when taxes are raised, money is printed, or the benefits
screwed with will several orders of magnitude worse than merely no
capital making its way into the economy.